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Be Careful Out There ...


clearpath
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I'll bet this was also a bear that had had contact with people before. Never, never, never leave food or containers that have held food (including foil) out where bears can get them.

 

A bear that associates people with food will be destroyed, as it will identify people with a food source and then attempt to obtain it. "A fed bear is a dead bear." It's not cute, it's dangerous for not just the bear, but for folks who come into contact with it.

 

Never bury or burn food items at a campsite in an attempt to "get rid of it". Carry out everything. (Including those hot chocolate packages...I hate picking them out of a campfire ring. Geeze, people, get a garbage bag and put your stuff in there...Ya carried it in full - you can carry it out empty.)

 

This is just tragic. Poor little girl.

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""Allegedly, after the rescue squad found the little girl, one of the squad members fired a shot from a small caliber handgun," Hicks said Friday. "We don't know whether the bear was hit or not. There was no blood, but it chased it off.""

 

It's too bad the girls family was'nt packing.

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I once had a black bear rip the T111wood siding off the corner of my hunting cabin,and rip thru the insulation between the studs.

Just to lick the cast Iron frying pans hanging on the wall,and drink a gallon of wesson oil.

 

Oops! You remember that night! Wow! I was with that bear, and I was the one who drank the quart of used Pennzoil motor oil. Sorry about that!

 

Yes, I have seen grizzlies do far worse -- to outfitter cabins and to semi-permanent cook tents -- out in Wyoming!

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Vinny & Sue Team and ATMouse are right. These attacks are very rare. The hobby that I incorporate geocaching into is photographing wildlife (bears) in the woods. I have done some stupid things in the past to get photos of bears and have not been attacked. I have stood underneath a mother and cubs in a tree, I have stood within 5 feet of a 2 or 3 year old in the woods, I have stood within 10 feet of an adult in a parking lot, I have stood within 1 foot of an adult male and I have taken pictures of all of them and never been attacked. There is a lot of information about the attack that is not known. This bear could have had some unknown problem that caused this, there were children involved, one of an age that may not know the difference between big dog and bear and there was a campground area that could have contained an attractant for the bear.

 

Bears as well as all wildlife can be dangerous if the situation is right. We should all be careful of all wildlife not just bears.

 

Sorry if this sounds preachy but I do love the bears and hate to see them always blamed when something happens.

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Sorry if this sounds preachy but I do love the bears and hate to see them always blamed when something happens.

A six year old girl was killed. And a 2 year old was critically injured when it was picked up in the bear's jaws. Somehow your statement seems ridiculous ...

Edited by clearpath
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Vinny & Sue Team and ATMouse are right. These attacks are very rare. The hobby that I incorporate geocaching into is photographing wildlife (bears) in the woods. I have done some stupid things in the past to get photos of bears and have not been attacked. I have stood underneath a mother and cubs in a tree, I have stood within 5 feet of a 2 or 3 year old in the woods, I have stood within 10 feet of an adult in a parking lot, I have stood within 1 foot of an adult male and I have taken pictures of all of them and never been attacked. There is a lot of information about the attack that is not known. This bear could have had some unknown problem that caused this, there were children involved, one of an age that may not know the difference between big dog and bear and there was a campground area that could have contained an attractant for the bear.

 

Bears as well as all wildlife can be dangerous if the situation is right. We should all be careful of all wildlife not just bears.

 

Sorry if this sounds preachy but I do love the bears and hate to see them always blamed when something happens.

 

Very well put! Thanks! Such incidents are EXTREMELY rare, and are not the norm. And, yes, people do die in this world, from all sorts of things. Hikers die of hantavirus, trail runners die from slipping off a cliff, swimmers die from drowning. To me, this is no excuse to stay out of the woods or to start saying that bears usually attack people wantonly.

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There is a disease out there which is having an impact on the black bear population and it is coming from eating raw pork.

 

****FROM THE CDC****For humans * I did read an article about this disease and its impact on bear populations

 

Trichinellosis

(TRICK-a-NELL-o-sis)

 

Trichinellosis, also called trichinosis, is caused by eating raw or undercooked meat of animals infected with the larvae of a species of worm called Trichinella. Infection occurs commonly in certain wild carnivorous (meat-eating) animals but may also occur in domestic pigs.

 

What are the symptoms of a trichinellosis infection?

 

Nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, fatigue, fever, and abdominal discomfort are the first symptoms of trichinellosis. Headaches, fevers, chills, cough, eye swelling, aching joints and muscle pains, itchy skin, diarrhea, or constipation follow the first symptoms. If the infection is heavy, patients may experience difficulty coordinating movements, and have heart and breathing problems. In severe cases, death can occur.

 

For mild to moderate infections, most symptoms subside within a few months. Fatigue, weakness, and diarrhea may last for months.

 

 

How soon after infection will symptoms appear?

 

Abdominal symptoms can occur 1-2 days after infection. Further symptoms usually start 2-8 weeks after eating contaminated meat. Symptoms may range from very mild to severe and relate to the number of infectious worms consumed in meat. Often, mild cases of trichinellosis are never specifically diagnosed and are assumed to be the flu or other common illnesses.

 

 

How does infection occur in humans and animals?

When a human or animal eats meat that contains infective Trichinella cysts, the acid in the stomach dissolves the hard covering of the cyst and releases the worms. The worms pass into the small intestine and, in 1-2 days, become mature. After mating, adult females lay eggs. Eggs develop into immature worms, travel through the arteries, and are transported to muscles. Within the muscles, the worms curl into a ball and encyst (become enclosed in a capsule). Infection occurs when these encysted worms are consumed in meat.

 

Am I at risk for trichinellosis?

If you eat raw or undercooked meats, particularly bear, pork, wild feline (such as a cougar), fox, dog, wolf, horse, seal, or walrus, you are at risk for trichinellosis.

 

Can I spread trichinellosis to others?

No. Infection can only occur by eating raw or undercooked meat containing Trichinella worms.

 

What should I do if I think I have trichinellosis?

See your health care provider who can order tests and treat symptoms of trichinellosis infection. If you have eaten raw or undercooked meat, you should tell your health care provider.

 

How is trichinellosis infection diagnosed?

A blood test or muscle biopsy can show if you have trichinellosis.

 

How is trichinellosis infection treated?

Several safe and effective prescription drugs are available to treat trichinellosis. Treatment should begin as soon as possible and the decision to treat is based upon symptoms, exposure to raw or undercooked meat, and laboratory test results.

 

Is trichinellosis common in the United States?

Infection was once very common and usually caused by ingestion of undercooked pork. However, infection is now relatively rare. During 1997-2001, an average of 12 cases per year were reported. The number of cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of raw-meat garbage to hogs, commercial and home freezing of pork, and the public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork products. Cases are less commonly associated with pork products and more often associated with eating raw or undercooked wild game meats.

 

How can I prevent trichinellosis?

Cook meat products until the juices run clear or to an internal temperature of 170 o F.

Freeze pork less than 6 inches thick for 20 days at 5 o F to kill any worms.

Cook wild game meat thoroughly. Freezing wild game meats, unlike freezing pork products, even for long periods of time, may not effectively kill all worms.

Cook all meat fed to pigs or other wild animals.

Do not allow hogs to eat uncooked carcasses of other animals, including rats, which may be infected with trichinellosis.

Clean meat grinders thoroughly if you prepare your own ground meats.

Curing (salting), drying, smoking, or microwaving meat does not consistently kill infective worms.

 

I know the wild pig, deer and turkey populations are booming. Other than rabies, distemper and botulism (from eating garbage out of plastic bags) even pneumonia could have been the case with the bear which attacked.

Edited by Poidawg
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Not really... when a black bear attacks, it is either: diseased, or, more likely, accustomed to associating the smell of humans with the smell of food, because too many stupid humans have fed it! <_<

 

Happy Caching!

Lori V.

TeamVilla5

Did I mention the girl was a 6 years old human and the 2 year old was a human boy. This is a fact. You are speculating that the bear was diseased and/or accustomed to humans. Even if the bear was sick or fed by stupid humans, does it give the bear the right to maul children?

Edited by clearpath
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does it give the bear the right to maul children?

 

Now you seem to be assuming that the bear can make distinctions between humans that feed it, and humans who haven't. The bear was probably going for the easiest meal, as any wild animal might, were it going to attack.

 

BTW, do *WE* have the right to change the bears' homes into our playgrounds?

 

Happy Caching!

Lori V.

TeamVilla5

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does it give the bear the right to maul children?

 

Now you seem to be assuming that the bear can make distinctions between humans that feed it, and humans who haven't. The bear was probably going for the easiest meal, as any wild animal might, were it going to attack.

 

BTW, do *WE* have the right to change the bears' homes into our playgrounds?

 

Happy Caching!

Lori V.

TeamVilla5

 

Yes. The bear doesn't ask us to raid our dumps for trash to feed out of camp ground or to maul children. Nor do we need to ask the bear and woodland critters to go for a hike, use ATV's or drop fire retardant on forest fires. We also don't need to ask the bear high council for permission to hunt down the bear that did maul and kill it.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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This post is not meant to start or continue any argument.

 

First, I do feel sorry for the family for their loss. It is very sad when children die for any reason not just animal attacks. I just wanted to point out that we as humans are too quick to place blame on those "horrible, wild animals that we encroach upon".

 

Second, when an animal (not just bear) attack occurs we as humans automatically place blame on the animal that is doing what is natural to it. If someone were to invade my home, I would defend myself to whatever level is necessary including taking another human's life.

 

Third, the last lines of the article you linked say that there have been 42 bear sightings in the area of this campground in the past few weeks. As a human, I would choose not to take a 2 year old human boy and 6 year old human girl to an area that is shown to have lots of recent bear activity. BTW, having been in this area many times they generally post this info in all campground areas that I have gone to.

 

Again, this is not saying that I have no empathy for this family in their loss. My heart goes out to them for all that they have gone through and what they will face in the future.

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I'll bet this was also a bear that had had contact with people before. Never, never, never leave food or containers that have held food (including foil) out where bears can get them.

 

A bear that associates people with food will be destroyed, as it will identify people with a food source and then attempt to obtain it. "A fed bear is a dead bear." It's not cute, it's dangerous for not just the bear, but for folks who come into contact with it.

 

Think ATMouse said it best. Bear near campgrounds (as in this instance) and picnic areas, know where their food come from. They have no fear of humans. I've encountered a few of them. We cannot blame the bear.

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In response to the OP's post in another topic, I do not believe that I am as dumb as a bag of hammers and I never said that it was okay for the bear to eat a human, nor did anyone else in this topic. My point was that every time a wild animal attacks a human it does not mean we need to crank up the "North Carolina Bear Trials" and burn them all at the stake. There have always been dangers with caching and there always will be. In previous years when no news articles about bear attacks circulated, they were still out there. This attack does not make them anymore dangerous than they were yesterday. That is all I was trying to get across. And yes, the bear has to be found and killed for attacking humans. While I don't like this idea I understand that it must happen.

 

Also, regarding the "injuns" and bears being the same, yes they are. We are all living beings sharing a planet and should respect one another's space.

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I'm assuming you would have been in favor of herding the "Injuns" out for our Caucasian purposes as well?

 

Sounds like you place 'injuns' and bears in the same category ... shame on you!

 

Also, regarding the "injuns" and bears being the same, yes they are. We are all living beings sharing a planet and should respect one another's space.

 

I wonder what the Native Americans would think of the "injun" statements. I think I will ask Tsegi Mike, who is full blooded Navajo.

 

Mike does not regard a bear as the "equal" of himself. He considers animals below the level of people.

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I'm not sure I understand all the views here. Let me try to bullet point them.

- Bears eating children is sad, but not bad

- Bears eat children because we encroach on their territory

- Killing and eating bears that eat children is bad

- Don't mix in the native americans--not sure what that about

Isn't this a forum for folks who people who hunt for boxes in the woods--in bear country and out?

Common sense tells me-

- I won't mess with a bear unless he messes with me or mine

- Eat my kids and you're dead, be you man or beast

- Don't let your tree-hugging cloud your common sense

- OP just was trying to say be careful

Although I've disagreed with him in the past, I agree with Clearpath on this one

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Personally, I'm thinking about killing all the people in my neighborhood. I'm kinda pissed they're encrouching on my space...

 

That said: yeah, the bear killed 'em. But the bear didn't put 'em there.

 

Life is full of risks. I'm personally all for banning forks. I cut myself under my fingernail taking one out of the dishwasher yesterday...

 

I'd hide-out under my bed, but I'm afraid a plane might fall from the sky and crash into my house.

 

It isn't "the bear's fault". The people were in bearland.

 

It isn't the people's fault. They were in a campground.

 

Sh** happens. People die. Every day, every minute, every second. Doing stupid stuff can greatly impact the likelyhood. Still, when we're talking about a few billion samples, freak uncommon events are going to happen at an astonishing rate...

 

Now the real question here is how many people you know personally and well have been mauled to death by bears this week?

 

That's what I thought. . .

 

So let's not go off on the kneejerk "nuke the bears" campaign, eh?

 

As the OP pointed-out: be aware. Hey. Great advice.

 

I really don't think it needs to go anywhere else outside of observing that this isn't common behavior for bears, esp. black bears.

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I once had a black bear rip the T111wood siding off the corner of my hunting cabin,and rip thru the insulation between the studs.

Just to lick the cast Iron frying pans hanging on the wall,and drink a gallon of wesson oil.

 

Oops! You remember that night! Wow! I was with that bear, and I was the one who drank the quart of used Pennzoil motor oil. Sorry about that!

 

Yes, I have seen grizzlies do far worse -- to outfitter cabins and to semi-permanent cook tents -- out in Wyoming!

Boy am I glad the Colorado Division of Wildlife has assured us that Grizzlies never cross the border from Wyoming <_<

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I'm not sure I understand all the views here. Let me try to bullet point them.

- Bears eating children is sad, but not bad

- Bears eat children because we encroach on their territory

- Killing and eating bears that eat children is bad

- Don't mix in the native americans--not sure what that about

Isn't this a forum for folks who people who hunt for boxes in the woods--in bear country and out?

Common sense tells me-

- I won't mess with a bear unless he messes with me or mine

- Eat my kids and you're dead, be you man or beast

- Don't let your tree-hugging cloud your common sense

- OP just was trying to say be careful

Although I've disagreed with him in the past, I agree with Clearpath on this one

UM Ok am I missing something here? <_<

 

<_<

Edited by BAF
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I'm not sure I understand all the views here. Let me try to bullet point them.

- Bears eating children is sad, but not bad

- Bears eat children because we encroach on their territory

- Killing and eating bears that eat children is bad

- Don't mix in the native americans--not sure what that about

Isn't this a forum for folks who people who hunt for boxes in the woods--in bear country and out?

Common sense tells me-

- I won't mess with a bear unless he messes with me or mine

- Eat my kids and you're dead, be you man or beast

- Don't let your tree-hugging cloud your common sense

- OP just was trying to say be careful

Although I've disagreed with him in the past, I agree with Clearpath on this one

I agree. *This* bear must be killed, and you can probably identitfy it by the way it behaves. If you get teh wrong bear, well, you've got the makings for a fine stew. The other bears in woods will have a wider range to eat berries and steal pic-a-nic baskets. This isn't a case of going out and forcing the extinction of bears, just this one.

 

And in any case, watch what you are doing while you are 'out there'.

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It's too bad the girls family was'nt packing.

 

I remember another bear attack years ago where a man ran to his car, picked up his .357 revolver and returned to the scene where he killed the bear before it could kill its intended victim. I considered carrying a pistol on hikes in North GA after a bear encounter, but you need at least a .357 to be effective ... these are large animals with heavy bones and thick layers of fat. I went so far as to talk to an expert about what would be an appropriate compact weapon, and he recommended a S&W .357 with at least a 4 inch barrel. He said a .45 or .40 would not penetrate well enough to be effective. I decided that the odds of bear attack were so low, especially in the winter when I do the most hiking, it was not worth the expense and effort.

 

In the case of the girl recently killed in TN, a man shot the bear with a .380 pistol according to a news report. He is lucky it did not come for him, a .380 would not even slow it down. The noise probably scared it off, not the bullets.

 

As for the bear rights issue ... almost all black bears in the wild will instinctively avoid people. Those that don't have this instinct or ignore it, for one reason or another, need to be destroyed. Its that simple.

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I'm not sure I understand all the views here. Let me try to bullet point them.

- Bears eating children is sad, but not bad

- Bears eat children because we encroach on their territory

- Killing and eating bears that eat children is bad

- Don't mix in the native americans--not sure what that about

 

Isn't this a forum for folks who people who hunt for boxes in the woods--in bear country and out?

Common sense tells me-

- I won't mess with a bear unless he messes with me or mine

- Eat my kids and you're dead, be you man or beast

- Don't let your tree-hugging cloud your common sense

- OP just was trying to say be careful

Although I've disagreed with him in the past, I agree with Clearpath on this one

UM Ok am I missing something here? <_<

 

<_<

 

Yes. The first 4 bullets are a creative report of views expressed by others in the discussion. From there NotNutts is making his own observations and expressing his opinions.

Edited by CharlieP
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There is no problem so great that it can not be solved by the proper application of high explosives.

Thats an interesting concept. A person could take a stick of dynamite and spread honey or jam all over it. When a bear needs to be destroyed simply toss it to the bear ... a lit honey stick.

Edited by clearpath
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It's too bad the girls family was'nt packing.

 

...but you need at least a .357 to be effective ... these are large animals with heavy bones and thick layers of fat. I went so far as to talk to an expert about what would be an appropriate compact weapon, and he recommended a S&W .357 with at least a 4 inch barrel. ...<snipped parts of post>

 

My weapon of choice in bear country (aside from the 357 handgun) would be a 12 Gauge shotgun loaded with rifled slugs, and a large magazine. I have seen 12 Gauges specifically designed for protection from large predators, they have synthetic stocks, are either pumps or automatics, and are relatively shorter than normal for easy packing and to reduce weight. The disadvantage of these though is limited range, but I think it's a good trade-off between the weapons size and it's effectiveness. I would also like any large caliber rifle, but those can be heavy and tiring to carry when hiking in backcountry.

 

Either way, you probably would not be allowed to posses an adequate weapon on park land anyway.

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I'm assuming you would have been in favor of herding the "Injuns" out for our Caucasian purposes as well?

 

For Pete's sake, the bears don't have reasoning skills, just instincts!

 

Wow, I live in a very progressive area and am still offended by the use of the word "Injuns".

 

Just me?

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This is a very sad story. We must be alert when caching in bear country.

Please on't over react and become scared. I live in the area and beara sightings are common and attacks are very UNCOMMON.

I don't recommend being scared to the point of non-participation in the great outdoors. However, realizing it is possible for a bear to attack and kill you should be apart of your consciousness. Fear is a great instinct that is responsible for keeping humans and other living things alive. Lack of fear can result in death. Also, lack of intelligence has played a big part in early demise (ie Timothy Treadwell).

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Your chances of dying in a bear attack from a black bear are greater than with other bear species. A black bear rarely attacks from aggression... usually hunger. Grizzlies, etc. will attack out of aggression and cease the attack when you are no longer a threat.

 

As a person who loves bears, both in the wild, and next to my mashed potatoes, I am terribly saddened by this. I'm sad that people took small children out and responded inappropriately to the bear. I'm sad that the bear killed the child. I'm sad that the bear died wastefully.

 

The bear died because stupid people behaved stupidly.

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This is a very sad story. We must be alert when caching in bear country.

Please on't over react and become scared. I live in the area and beara sightings are common and attacks are very UNCOMMON.

I don't recommend being scared to the point of non-participation in the great outdoors. However, realizing it is possible for a bear to attack and kill you should be apart of your consciousness. Fear is a great instinct that is responsible for keeping humans and other living things alive. Lack of fear can result in death. Also, lack of intelligence has played a big part in early demise (ie Timothy Treadwell).

 

Realizing that it is possible that a meteor can fall from the sky, crash through your roof, and kill you in your sleep should also probably be in your noggin.

 

As should realizing that you can be struck by lightning on a cloudless day.

 

But the part about getting killed in a head-on collision because you were staring at your GPSr whilst speeding to an FTF? Just forget it. Never gonna happen... :P

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- Don't let your tree-hugging cloud your common sense

 

:D:D:) Oh man! Are you gonna come clean my monitor now? :D

 

It's too bad the girls family was'nt packing.

 

I remember another bear attack years ago where a man ran to his car, picked up his .357 revolver and returned to the scene where he killed the bear before it could kill its intended victim. I considered carrying a pistol on hikes in North GA after a bear encounter, but you need at least a .357 to be effective ... these are large animals with heavy bones and thick layers of fat. I went so far as to talk to an expert about what would be an appropriate compact weapon, and he recommended a S&W .357 with at least a 4 inch barrel. He said a .45 or .40 would not penetrate well enough to be effective. I decided that the odds of bear attack were so low, especially in the winter when I do the most hiking, it was not worth the expense and effort.

 

In the case of the girl recently killed in TN, a man shot the bear with a .380 pistol according to a news report. He is lucky it did not come for him, a .380 would not even slow it down. The noise probably scared it off, not the bullets.

 

As for the bear rights issue ... almost all black bears in the wild will instinctively avoid people. Those that don't have this instinct or ignore it, for one reason or another, need to be destroyed. Its that simple.

 

yeah yeah yeah any gun is better than no gun in that situation. I doubt that the "expert" ever did any studies on what was effective against a charging bear. The animal people would be all over them before they progressed beyond .32 cal! :P

Basically, he thought of the most powerful handgun that is still commonly available and said that. I'll take a .380 over a pressurized seasoning can any day.

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The noise probably scared it off, not the bullets.

 

 

Good enough for me! The intention of self defense (in any situation) is to stop the attack, not to maim or kill the attacker.

 

Which is more likely to turn a wild animal? "ssshhhhhhhhhhhh" or "BANG!"

 

I'll take "BANG!" any day.

 

As for a bear (or other animal) that attacks a human, they MUST be destroyed. Attacks, by that perticular animal, will become more frequent or habitual after the first successful attack. Killing it ensures that IT will not attack another human. Hmmm- might this also work for HUMAN killers? (I digress)

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I doubt that the "expert" ever did any studies on what was effective against a charging bear. The animal people would be all over them before they progressed beyond .32 cal! :)

Testing is not necessary. There are folks who hunt bears with handguns ... not my idea of fun, but it proves what works and what doesn't.

 

Basically, he thought of the most powerful handgun that is still commonly available and said that.

That would be a .44 Mag ... but that is not very compact, which was one of the specs.

 

I'll take a .380 over a pressurized seasoning can any day.

I'll agree with that!

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