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60csx Elevation


8mmag
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Hi,

 

I've had my 60CSx for a few weeks now and so far it has worked fine...until today.

 

On my way home from work I glanced down to and saw the trip computer page was indicating '------' for the elevation data. I picked it up and noticed the info bar on top was indicating 3D navigation and my EPE was about 16 ft.

 

Switching to the satellite page, there was strong lock on about 8-9 sats (WAAS on but no WAAS sats or D's as usual). The elevation page also showed no current elevation data.

 

I waited for several minutes for the elevation to kick back in but it never did, so I turned it off and back on again...instantly there was the elevaton data again.

 

Has this ever happenned to anyone else? Should I report it to Garmin?

 

I'm running firmware v2.62 Beta.

 

Thanks in advance for all replies.

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Has this ever happenned to anyone else? Should I report it to Garmin?

Yes, and yes.

 

It's been reported by quite a few people, but Garmin should know how many are affected so more reports should be good. Not clear why it happens, but the altitude seems to max out sometimes with the result that it can't be displayed in the data field. It frequently stays at a ridiculously high value until recalibrated or the unit is turned off.

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I heard about the max elevation thingy, I'm not sure but ths may be the same but maybe is a little different...

 

I just checked my elevation page and it says 1140Ft MAX Elevation. Maybe the maxed out reading cleared when I turned it off/on?

 

I will post a bug report to Garmin though.

 

EDIT: Also, the elevation screen appeared to show '0' elevation (no green) rather than maxed out elevation (all green).

 

Has this ever happenned to anyone else? Should I report it to Garmin?

Yes, and yes.

 

It's been reported by quite a few people, but Garmin should know how many are affected so more reports should be good. Not clear why it happens, but the altitude seems to max out sometimes with the result that it can't be displayed in the data field. It frequently stays at a ridiculously high value until recalibrated or the unit is turned off.

Edited by 8mmag
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Last night was the first time I got this. No elevation ----- for awhile then about 10 minutes into my drive i was at 40000ft. Stayed high until I turned it off and back on this morning. I had 3d signal with waas (including the D's) when mine occured.

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I've seen similar issues with my 76csx when plotting elevation with tracking on. After awhile usually 5-10 minutes the elevation will read ---- and the barometer measurement goes down to like 54.XX Hpa and it stays there till I turn the unit off and on. Then it's good for another 5-10 minutes.

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Hi,

 

I've had my 60CSx for a few weeks now and so far it has worked fine...until today.

 

On my way home from work I glanced down to and saw the trip computer page was indicating '------' for the elevation data. I picked it up and noticed the info bar on top was indicating 3D navigation and my EPE was about 16 ft.

 

Switching to the satellite page, there was strong lock on about 8-9 sats (WAAS on but no WAAS sats or D's as usual). The elevation page also showed no current elevation data.

 

I waited for several minutes for the elevation to kick back in but it never did, so I turned it off and back on again...instantly there was the elevaton data again.

 

Has this ever happenned to anyone else? Should I report it to Garmin?

 

I'm running firmware v2.62 Beta.

 

Thanks in advance for all replies.

 

I've had this happen with my 60csx a few times. The only way to get the elevation to register again is to turn the unit off and on again. Then there's the elevation recorded in the track suddenly jumping several thousand feet. I've emailed Garmin tech support about these issues twice, once a month ago and once 2 weeks ago, and they have yet to reply. So far, I can't say I'm very impressed with Garmin support.

 

Another bug I've emailed Garmin about, with no reply, is the tendency of the trip odometer to register about 5 to 10 percent less distance than is shown on the track line when downloaded. Doesn't inspire much confidence in the unit's ability to give you an accurate reading of how far you've gone. The unit does, however, reliably keep a solid location lock, even under tree cover, and that's its saving grace.

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Ok, I'm new to this so bear with me, beer with me too! I just got my 60 Csx, I calibrate the Altimiter and within seconds it starts to run away. I mean it goes from actual (122ft) to 180 then down to 50 or 60 then up to 160....I just uploaded 2.60 haven't put 2.62 on yet.

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Funny, It happened to me just this afternoon...was thinking of posting on here.. You beat me to it.

 

Ok, I'm new to this so bear with me, beer with me too! I just got my 60 Csx, I calibrate the Altimiter and within seconds it starts to run away. I mean it goes from actual (122ft) to 180 then down to 50 or 60 then up to 160....I just uploaded 2.60 haven't put 2.62 on yet.

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I sent Garmin a bug report. I know its been done before, but the more the merrier right?

 

BTW, it happenned to me again today. Looks like it was trying to indicate I was about 29999 ft below sea level! Thats why I had no 'Green' on the elevation page, just white.

 

And one other thing...it wouldn't let me enter a '+' sign on the calibration page, or any of the last 3 digits of elevation. I had to turn it off/on to get a reasonable altitide to calibrate it. In other words, it can't be calibrated in this state either.

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I sent Garmin a bug report. I know its been done before, but the more the merrier right?

 

BTW, it happenned to me again today. Looks like it was trying to indicate I was about 29999 ft below sea level! Thats why I had no 'Green' on the elevation page, just white.

 

And one other thing...it wouldn't let me enter a '+' sign on the calibration page, or any of the last 3 digits of elevation. I had to turn it off/on to get a reasonable altitide to calibrate it. In other words, it can't be calibrated in this state either.

 

Actually, I never could get the + to work instead i just entered 0 over where the - appeared and that allowed me to callibrate to a positive altitude.

 

My 60CSx seems to jump around some for the 1st minute or two and then generally settles down to about a 10-15 foot range when sitting here at my desk.

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I sent Garmin a bug report. I know its been done before, but the more the merrier right?

 

BTW, it happenned to me again today. Looks like it was trying to indicate I was about 29999 ft below sea level! Thats why I had no 'Green' on the elevation page, just white.

 

And one other thing...it wouldn't let me enter a '+' sign on the calibration page, or any of the last 3 digits of elevation. I had to turn it off/on to get a reasonable altitide to calibrate it. In other words, it can't be calibrated in this state either.

 

That is the exact problem I have had with my 60CSX. I called tech support and they said there was problems with the elevation but I should not be getting - 10,000 feet. So I exchanged the unit and still have the problem. I notice it is a much greater problem when auto calabration is turned on.

 

I really like Garmin and my unit, but I am getting very anxious for them to get some of these things fixed.

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OK, another observation. When this elevation thing started for me, it was just as my tracklog was reaching 99% filled. It's set to autowrap. Since then I've had the extreme elevation problem occur with regularity, at least twice more today.

 

On a whim, I erased the track log (0% used). Since I reset the tracklog, still set to autowrap, I've had no incidents.

 

Those of you having this elevation problem, give this a try and post your observations, including how full your tracklog was and if set to autowrap.

 

Maybe we can figure this out for Garmin!

 

Tom

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I think you might have the answer here 8mmag. I never saw the reported problems with elevation until a fortnight or so ago. I figured it might be a problem with the 2.62 beta firmware so I rolled back to 2.60 but the errors returned after a short time. On reflection, I was letting the track log fill and it was set to autowrap.

 

I have not let the track log fill since that time and the problem has not returned.

 

This sounds like a purely software related issue and should be an easy fix for Garmin.

 

Fingers crossed eh?

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A few weeks ago, my friend and I each purchased a 60CSx. We loaded Ver. 2.60 firmware on our units. Both 60CSx units quickly malfunctioned. His was getting ± 80-90’ location inaccuracies. Mine started showing a blank dashed line ("_ _ _ _ _ ft.") in the "Max. Elev." field. I recalibrated the altitude several times to no avail. Although I was at altitudes ranging from sea level to <300 feet, the track profile showed altitudes as low as -4,921 feet and as high as 98,422 feet! A "Max. Elev." finally showed after I used the "Reset..." command. However, the next time I used my unit, freshly reset and with an empty tracklog, the above problems recurred. I don’t know if my unit’s gross elevation inaccuracies are due to a broken barometric sensor, some other hardware defect(s) or a firmware fault.

 

Garmin gave both of us RMA numbers, and our receivers are in shipment to Garmin for repair/replacement. We hope that Garmin will know how to permanently fix our GPSrs.

 

I just read multiple complaints about bugs and conflicting statements from Garmin Tech Support in the “60csx Waas Question” thread at Groundspeak Forums. Those complaints make me very nervous that my 60CSx will have ongoing altitude errors or develop a different problem.

 

The "60csx Waas Question" thread makes clear that Garmin is selling a product that is still in an experimental stage and incapable of doing what’s promised in advertised specifications. Is that poor business practice due to blind excitement, lust for market share, incompetence, dishonesty or what?

 

TracknDQ

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Hi,

 

I've had my 60CSx for a few weeks now and so far it has worked fine...until today.

 

On my way home from work I glanced down to and saw the trip computer page was indicating '------' for the elevation data. I picked it up and noticed the info bar on top was indicating 3D navigation and my EPE was about 16 ft.

 

Switching to the satellite page, there was strong lock on about 8-9 sats (WAAS on but no WAAS sats or D's as usual). The elevation page also showed no current elevation data.

 

I waited for several minutes for the elevation to kick back in but it never did, so I turned it off and back on again...instantly there was the elevaton data again.

 

Has this ever happenned to anyone else? Should I report it to Garmin?

 

I'm running firmware v2.62 Beta.

 

Thanks in advance for all replies.

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My 60csx is displaying consistent and generally correct altitude measurements (of course variable by barometric pressure between calibrations.

 

I would assume you guys are getting these altitude errors outside with some views of the sky?

 

Man that's some accuracy problems.

 

I've been reading posts from so many that are using these in there homes,basements,etc. I wonder that something would give during this.

 

I was going to order one but maybe I'll hold off till this is straightened out.

 

Capt.

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Mine happens with a clear sky view, 8-9 strong bars outside.

 

I also had this problem re-occur with the tracklog only 3% full, so my earlier guess abut a full tracklog contributing to the problem was wrong.

 

 

My 60csx is displaying consistent and generally correct altitude measurements (of course variable by barometric pressure between calibrations.

 

I would assume you guys are getting these altitude errors outside with some views of the sky?

 

Man that's some accuracy problems.

 

I've been reading posts from so many that are using these in there homes,basements,etc. I wonder that something would give during this.

 

I was going to order one but maybe I'll hold off till this is straightened out.

 

Capt.

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Adding Insult To Injury

 

I'm new to GPS and to Garmin. I bought my 60CSx on March 29.

 

I reported my 60CSx's elevation problems in an April 16 post in this thread.

 

On April 21, I received a brand new "replacement" from Garmin. Unfortunately, Garmin sent me a 60Cx instead of a 60CSx. (More details appear in '"Replacement" Of Broken 60CSx - Is This Garmin's SOP?,' posted in the GPS Units and Software Forum on April 22.)

 

This has not been a happy experience.

 

TracknQ

Edited by TracknQ
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Unfortunately, Garmin sent me a 60Cx instead of a 60CSx.

 

They may be trying to send you a message: the altimeter in the 60csx is crap anyways, and you're better off with the cx that gives you accurate GPS measurements :lol:

 

The barometric altimeter on my 60CSx worked for a total of 12 days. During that short time, I compared barometric elevations versus satellite-derived elevations. The barometric and satellite-derived elevations were both higher than my actual elevation at sea level. However, the barometric elevations were only somewhat higher, whereas the satellite-derived elevations were a good deal higher.

 

The 60CSx has both a barometer and an electronic compass. I paid $50 more for these features.

 

I'll let you know if the barometric altimeter works for more than 12 days on my new 60CSx, if and when I get a proper "replacement."

Edited by TracknQ
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Unfortunately, Garmin sent me a 60Cx instead of a 60CSx.

 

They may be trying to send you a message: the altimeter in the 60csx is crap anyways, and you're better off with the cx that gives you accurate GPS measurements :lol:

 

The barometric altimeter on my 60CSx worked for a total of 12 days. During that short time, I compared barometric elevations versus satellite-derived elevations. The barometric and satellite-derived elevations were both higher than my actual elevation at sea level. However, the barometric elevations were only somewhat higher, whereas the satellite-derived elevations were a good deal higher.

 

The 60CSx has both a barometer and an electronic compass. I paid $50 more for these features.

 

I'll let you know if the barometric altimeter works for more 12 days on my new 60CSx, if and when I get a proper "replacement."

 

From all I've read the accuracy is better with the altimeter S units. But the best accuracy is when it's been running for an hour or so. To keep a steady fix for a while is key. And you have to be in "Varible Elevation".

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BETA means BETA folks. report the issue, fine, but if your not using the current released software, it isn't fair to garmin to badmouth the unit. I have been checking my Altimeter against the signage in Colorado for a while, and I have been consistantly within what i would consider to be GPS and baromtric accuracy. Remember that Altitude is affected by barometric pressure, and there is no way to truly compensate unless you have a 3d GPS fix and use that. Unless you WANT to be a Guinie Pig, USE the right version for the unit from Garmin!

 

Has anyone spoken to Garmin about the issue? Post it if you have, and are using the latest non beta release of the code. Thanks.

 

P.S. and yes I have seen a few wierd things, and turning the unit off and on seems to fix them, but the unit is still new and trust me, the way we use the units and the way the testers use the units differ enough that I am sure Garmin will have a few more software versions released before they are finished.

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BETA means BETA folks. report the issue, fine, but if your not using the current released software, it isn't fair to garmin to badmouth the unit. I have been checking my Altimeter against the signage in Colorado for a while, and I have been consistantly within what i would consider to be GPS and baromtric accuracy. Remember that Altitude is affected by barometric pressure, and there is no way to truly compensate unless you have a 3d GPS fix and use that. Unless you WANT to be a Guinie Pig, USE the right version for the unit from Garmin!

 

Has anyone spoken to Garmin about the issue? Post it if you have, and are using the latest non beta release of the code. Thanks.

 

P.S. and yes I have seen a few wierd things, and turning the unit off and on seems to fix them, but the unit is still new and trust me, the way we use the units and the way the testers use the units differ enough that I am sure Garmin will have a few more software versions released before they are finished.

 

 

I sent Garmin a bug report & emailed tech support. No replies so far, how long should it take to hear something back?

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Took them 4 days to get back to me. But once they did, we had a 3 day running conversation with e mails about every 4 hours, so be patient. Not Too patient, but they are overwhelmed and calling proved useless, so e mail is the best way. If you feel you were lost in the shuffle, resend it with "2ed request." That tends to work for me.

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I used my 60CSx on a plane ride from MPLS to NYC. I connected the GPSr to Streets and Trips via a serial cable. The GPS elevation was reported correctly the whole trip 900ft to 40,000ft. During this same time the Altimeter page never reported the correct elevation. I am assuming this is because of the barometric pressure within the airplane. Is there anyway to turn off the barometric pressure / altimeter calculation and instead use GPS elevation for all Altimeter reporting? I don't see that option within the menus.

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Took them 4 days to get back to me. But once they did, we had a 3 day running conversation with e mails about every 4 hours, so be patient. Not Too patient, but they are overwhelmed and calling proved useless, so e mail is the best way. If you feel you were lost in the shuffle, resend it with "2ed request." That tends to work for me.

 

I always found Garmin excellent in their support. Something like this alitude jumping they'll take seriously and fix right away. I would think it takes time as when you change something it will effect something else.

 

They get lot's of suggestions or false reports and have to sort through thoursands of them to figure out whats real and not I guess.

 

One thing I wanted badly and had to wait years for was a highlighted track. When the 76S came out it was a great unit expect I found it hard to read the track compared to the units that Garmin had out before. It wasn't until the 60cs came out for a while even that they had an udate with the menu for "transparent"etc. Transparent being like the stock 76S was or 60cs when that first hit the market.

 

When they did it they did it right. i.e. color options and a thick highlight.

 

Hopefully they'll do it right with this unit as well and not take long. They have everything staked on it. Since they stopped productiton of the 60CS. Which is a great unit. That unit looks better and does a lot more than the Northstar 951XD I bought in 1996 for $1600.00 Which I still have on the boat. Garmins service was even better all around then Northstars which is darn good. $ over 100.00 an hour.

 

I myself deeply believe as they have everything staked on the X they get it running smooth soon.

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Took them 4 days to get back to me. But once they did, we had a 3 day running conversation with e mails about every 4 hours, so be patient. Not Too patient, but they are overwhelmed and calling proved useless, so e mail is the best way. If you feel you were lost in the shuffle, resend it with "2ed request." That tends to work for me.

 

I always found Garmin excellent in their support. Something like this alitude jumping they'll take seriously and fix right away. I would think it takes time as when you change something it will effect something else.

 

They get lot's of suggestions or false reports and have to sort through thoursands of them to figure out whats real and not I guess.

 

One thing I wanted badly and had to wait years for was a highlighted track. When the 76S came out it was a great unit expect I found it hard to read the track compared to the units that Garmin had out before. It wasn't until the 60cs came out for a while even that they had an udate with the menu for "transparent"etc. Transparent being like the stock 76S was or 60cs when that first hit the market.

 

When they did it they did it right. i.e. color options and a thick highlight.

 

Hopefully they'll do it right with this unit as well and not take long. They have everything staked on it. Since they stopped productiton of the 60CS. Which is a great unit. That unit looks better and does a lot more than the Northstar 951XD I bought in 1996 for $1600.00 Which I still have on the boat. Garmins service was even better all around then Northstars which is darn good. $ over 100.00 an hour.

 

I myself deeply believe as they have everything staked on the X they get it running smooth soon.

 

I'll give the 2nd request idea a try tomorrow...

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I have had similar problems running firmware 2.60, so its not entirely the beta thing. Here is what happened to me.

 

I am travelling around S. Asia and I had been running a track log for the past three days. I had recently checked and it was about 60% full. I had done a mix of driving and hiking. I then got out to hike around the walls of an ancient city and when I returned to the car I realized my tracklog was full. When I got home I realized that the problem was that half-way through my hike the altimeter started reading 98421 feet and began dropping a trackpoint every second (explaining why the track log suddenly was full). Both errors started simultaneously; however, the tracklog is still dead-on accurate. I also noticed that there were a couple of instances in the tracklog beofre this happened where the track broke and was separated from the next track by a single trackpoint with an elevation of -4921 feet.

 

I sent a complaint in to Garmin and received this response:

 

"Thank you for contacting Garmin

 

I'll be glad to help. That is difficult to determine what would cause that,

keep an eye on the altimeter and be sure it is functioning properly. If it

is not working properly, it could give inaccurate readings like that.

 

Thanks"

 

Not very helpful.... but I did e-mail them back with the tracklog attached, so perhaps they can analyize it. I pointed out that the altitude is only part of the problem, it also starts going crazy with the tracklog.

 

This appears to be a systemic problem, i just hope Garmin fixes it.

 

Brian

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I have had similar problems running firmware 2.60, so its not entirely the beta thing. Here is what happened to me.

 

I am travelling around S. Asia and I had been running a track log for the past three days. I had recently checked and it was about 60% full. I had done a mix of driving and hiking. I then got out to hike around the walls of an ancient city and when I returned to the car I realized my tracklog was full. When I got home I realized that the problem was that half-way through my hike the altimeter started reading 98421 feet and began dropping a trackpoint every second (explaining why the track log suddenly was full). Both errors started simultaneously; however, the tracklog is still dead-on accurate. I also noticed that there were a couple of instances in the tracklog beofre this happened where the track broke and was separated from the next track by a single trackpoint with an elevation of -4921 feet.

 

I sent a complaint in to Garmin and received this response:

 

"Thank you for contacting Garmin

 

I'll be glad to help. That is difficult to determine what would cause that,

keep an eye on the altimeter and be sure it is functioning properly. If it

is not working properly, it could give inaccurate readings like that.

 

Thanks"

 

Not very helpful.... but I did e-mail them back with the tracklog attached, so perhaps they can analyize it. I pointed out that the altitude is only part of the problem, it also starts going crazy with the tracklog.

 

This appears to be a systemic problem, i just hope Garmin fixes it.

 

Brian

 

Brian,

 

Whoever contacted you from Garmin must have been out of touch with what's happening. Garmin certainly knows that the problems you experienced signal a unit that is NOT "functioning properly."

 

On April 11, 13 days after I purchased my 60CSx, my unit's elevation readings went wacky. I got virtually the same errors that you experienced. My aberrant altitude readings were -4,921 feet and +98,422 feet. I was running Garmin's Version 2.60 Firmware at the time. I didn't check whether my tracklog had prematurely filled.

 

Brock Ainsworth, a Tech Support representative, had me cold boot my unit. After the reboot, the unit's elevation readings climbed abnormally. Brock immediately gave me an RMA number, and I shipped the unit back to Garmin, at my cost. That was two weeks ago.

 

Garmin then sent me a 60Cx to replace my 60CSx. I had to drive to a DHL facility to return the 60Cx to Garmin. Then, Garmin promised to overnight a new 60CSx to me. Another bungle. The new 60CSx is being shipped to me, in Hawaii, via "GROUND" delivery!

 

My replacement 60CSx is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I hope that it works, but I'm nervous that it might not.

 

A friend of mine's 60CSx showed Lat./Lon. coordinates that were distant from the known coordinates of a class "B" control station. The distance was greater than the "< 10 meter" accuracy that Garmin promised as "typical" in its specifications for the 60CSx. My friend sent the unit back to Garmin. Although my friend's first 60CSx broke only a few days after he purchased it brand new, Garmin sent him a refurbished 60CSx as a replacement. The replacement 60CSx produced Lat./Lon. coordinates that were also distant from the control station's coordinates and outside the promised accuracy specification. Both the brand new unit and the replacement unit showed EPE readings that ranged over ± 90 feet. My friend just returned the replacement 60CSx to Garmin.

 

Garmin's Tech Support representatives have all been helpful and cordial to me. Despite their good intentions, I'm a very unhappy new customer.

 

Good luck with your replacement efforts.

 

TracknQ

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I am travelling around S. Asia and I had been running a track log for the past three days. ...

Brian

 

Brian,

 

A question: Did you ever recalibrate your altimeter?

 

I purchased my 60CSx at an REI in Central Oregon. I used the unit in Central Oregon for a week, with no apparent problems. Then I came to Honolulu, HI. Here, the altimeter was off by between 50 and 80+ feet. I recalibrated the altimeter to an elevation a few feet above sea level.

 

I've been wondering if my recalibration of the altimeter had anything to do with the subsequent malfunction of the altimeter.

 

TracknQ

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I am travelling around S. Asia and I had been running a track log for the past three days. ...

Brian

 

Brian,

 

A question: Did you ever recalibrate your altimeter?

 

I've been wondering if my recalibration of the altimeter had anything to do with the subsequent malfunction of the altimeter.

 

TracknQ

 

I did recalibrate my altimeter when I initially got the unit. I had not done so recently though.

 

Additionally, I was experimenting with the GPS in my yard yesterday and the same problem reappeared. This appears to be completely random in occurance.

 

I was wondering if anyone has had this problem with Altimeter auto calibration turned off? Mine was on when it occured. I just turned it off and will see if it re-occurs.

 

Brian

Edited by dumketu
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Thanks for the info, Brian.

 

I received my replacement 60CSx from Garmin today. The unit appears to be brand new and came in what appears to be a brand new 60CSx box. The serial number of the new unit is 26,427 higher than the serial number of my original 60CSx that had the -4,921 foot and +98,422 foot elevation problems. When first turned on, the new unit showed a "Max. Elev." of 15,209 feet. I'm not sure why that number appeared. I reset all elevation readings. So far, I'm getting close-to-correct elevation readings inside my apartment, without WAAS enabled. I'll do some testing at NGS control stations and benchmarks this weekend.

 

According to "Setup" > "System" > "Menu", the new unit came loaded with "Software Version 2.60" and "GPS SW Version 2.40." I'm not sure what "GPS SW Version 2.40" refers to. If anyone knows, I'd appreciate an explanation.

 

TracknQ

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OUTRAGEOUS!

 

Today, I went for a 7.0 mile walk around Diamond Head in Honolulu with the replacement 60CSx that I received from Garmin yesterday. At the start of the walk, I reset all functions, deleted all tracks, and started a new track. One mile into the walk, the elevation and maximum elevation readings went blank. I recalibrated the altimeter to 13 feet at a control station and benchmark 5+ miles into the walk. When I got home, I turned off tracking and saved the track. I was startled to see that nearly 40% of track storage was used up during my short 7-mile walk.

 

Brian, aka dumketu, reported a similar experience with track log depletion in Post #33 above.

 

When I arrived back in my apartment, I connected my new 60CSx to my PC. I then downloaded today's track to MapSource. I was VERY UPSET to see that the elevation had jumped precipitously from 167' to +98,422' at 1.03 miles into my walk. At 3.8+ miles, the altitude had fallen precipitously to -4,921'. The altitude remained at that low number until I recalibrated the altitude to 13' at a control station/benchmark, 5.16 miles into the walk.

 

The +98,422' and -4,921' readings are the EXACT SAME ELEVATION ANOMALIES that I got from the 60CSx that I purchased on March 29th and returned to Garmin on April 13th.

 

I should have kept the 60Cx that Garmin MISTAKENLY sent me as a replacement for my first broken 60CSx. I had to go to the trouble of returning that unit to Garmin last week.

 

TracknQ

 

P.S. I'm not the only Garmin customer who's been burned by 'lightning striking twice.' "Retiredramjet" is a retired professional surveyor and a friend of mine in Central Oregon. He just returned a second 60CSx to Garmin. The second unit displayed the very same EPE excesses and horizontal positional inaccuracies as the first. See Groundspeak Forums > GPS Related Topics > GPS Units and Software > "Garmin 60csx Large Epe And Horizontal Position Errors."

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TracknQ,

 

I feel for you. Nothing more frustrating than getting the run-around and still having a bum product at the end of the day. I had heard Garmin was pretty poor on customer service, but I have been very happy with their products in the past. I am going to continue to prod them about this and try to be patient for a while and see if they can come up with a solution.

 

I am overall happy with my 60csx. At least for me this problem is an annoyance, but not a deal-breaker. It sounds to me like this is a widespread problem and may in fact be something they can fix with firmware. It also seems like there is a connection with the calibration of the altimeter. I turned off auto calibration and travelled around with the GPS in the car and did not have any problems today. It is going to take some time to determine if this fixes it. I like the electronic compass of the 60csx, but they need to add an option to disable the altimeter altogether. I am at 12m elevation and since I have turned off autocalibration, my gps varies from -35m to 75m elevation. I know altimeter is more accurate, but I would be happy with GPS only if it solved my other problem.

 

Still no response since I sent my tracklog in.

 

I have not had the horizontal inaccuracies others have mentioned; in fact, my GPS seems to be dead-on accurate for horizontal position. It does wander a bit, but no more than my e-trex vista. (I do keep my electronic compass turned off unless I need it for something to save batteries.)

 

Brian

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TracknQ,

 

... It also seems like there is a connection with the calibration of the altimeter. I turned off auto calibration and travelled around with the GPS in the car and did not have any problems today. It is going to take some time to determine if this fixes it. ... I am at 12m elevation and since I have turned off autocalibration, my gps varies from -35m to 75m elevation. ...

 

Still no response since I sent my tracklog in.

 

Brian

 

Brian, thanks.

 

Your last post triggered me to think and guess.

 

Guess No. 1: The low elevations of where you and I live may possibly explain why we're having the elevation anomalies, but others are not. You live at 12 meters (39 feet). I live at 3 meters (10 feet). Low elevations may cause the barometric altimeter to malfunction.

Guess No. 2: The elevation of Olathe, KS, is 334 meters (1096 feet); so testing a 60CSx in Olathe may not generate the problems that you and I are experiencing.

 

I did not recalibrated the altimeter of my new 60CSx before it began to malfunction. I was afraid that recalibration would trigger a repeat problem. The only things that I reset to zero were the various data entries on the Trip Computer page. Also, I stopped, cleared and restarted the track log.

 

Your suggestion that auto-calibration is triggering our problem is fascinating. If your fix works, maybe Garmin will be able to make some firmware changes that will allow the 60CSx to auto-calibrate without causing the elevation anomalies.

 

I turned my unit on this morning and got a fairly accurate elevation reading. So far, I'm continuing to get decent elevation readings. When the anomalies restart, I'll disable auto-calibration and see what happens.

 

Guess No. 3: I'm wondering if turning the 60CSx off and then back on may be a possible fix. Lots of folks are having problems after exiting from tunnels. They can't re-aquire SVs without first powering off and on. Maybe their problem is somehow related to ours. If so, the SiRF III chip may be implicated.

 

Late last night, I had my 60CSx leaning against the inside of a north-facing window of our 8th-floor apartment, less than 90 feet above sea level. The Satellite Page showed signals from nine SVs, "3D" acquisition, and a ±21' EPE. The sky was clear, and the weather was not stormy (i.e., there was nothing apparent that might affect the barometer). I had the 60CSx connected via USB cable to my PC. I went to turn off the 60CSx and was startled to see an 18,530' elevation on the Trip Computer Page. I took four screen shots with xImage. Over the course of seven minutes, the elevation fell to 14,635 feet. About a half-hour later, the Elevation reading was "_ _ _ _ _ ft."

 

This morning, I took one more screen shot, to record the 32% track log storage space that was used yesterday during my very short and quick 7-mile walk.

 

My Guess No. 4 involves the relationship between our elevation malfunctions and the obvious severe depletion of our track storage spaces. Is a firmware glitch and/or a barometric sensor fault causing the barometer to recalibrate the altimeter continuously? Every recalibration seems to add a new point to the track.

 

My 7-mile track from yesterday's walk had 3,292 points in it! I checked the track properties. When the elevation suddenly climbed to 98,422 feet, the track segments fell from distances mostly in the > 50' and < 126' range to numbers below 6 feet. Eventually, every segment was between 0 and 6 feet! When the elevation switched to -4,921', the segments climbed back to normal distances.

 

Guess No. 5: Movement of the 60CSx, like on my walk yesterday, may be what triggers the rapid and continuous recalibrations and consequent elevation anomalies. Leaning against my 8th floor apartment window now, the 60CSx is showing stable elevation readings. However, last night, the 60CSx was leaning against the same window when elevation readings were at sky-high numbers. Maybe my 60CSx is just afraid of the dark.

 

It's obvious that Garmin is TOTALLY OVERWHELMED by complaints about multiple 60CSx bugs and faults. I called the Garmin switchboard operator last week, asking to speak to a higher-up. She said that "everyone" was on phones, answering calls from customers.

 

I'm not sure that anyone high up will pay particular attention to your track log or my complaints soon. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, we should keep communicating our ideas and findings.

 

I'm sure that Garmin has someone snooping at these Forums. Maybe our beta testing and guesses will help Garmin fix our problem.

 

I'd like to get my hands on, and test, a 60Cx. Absent the barometer, the 60Cx might be the best solution.

 

One thing's for sure. At least yesterday, my new 60CSx was very accurate. The high orbit and close proximity of the POR satellite (#47 = Inmarsat 3 f3 at 178.07°E) kept WAAS differential corrections coming into my unit almost continuously as I walked. With "Go To" I was able to get within five feet of a control station/benchmark listed on the NGS Datasheet. I created a waypoint with the base of my 60CSx resting on the monument disk. The horizontal coordinates of my waypoint virtually identical to the official coordinates of the control station! I hope my units accuracy doesn't soon fail, similar to the bad experiences of my friend "retiredramjet." See his posts at Groundspeak Forums > GPS Related Topics > GPS Units and Software > "Garmin 60csx Large EPE And Horizontal Position Errors."

 

Please keep me posted, and I will do the same for you.

 

Aloha,

 

TracknQ

 

P.S. My email address is listed in my Profile. Send me an email if you want to see yesterday's track or the screen shots.

Edited by TracknQ
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Brian,

 

Here are some photos.

 

MapSource Screen Shot Of The Track Of My 7-Mile Walk Yesterday (04/29/06)

1_Track_042906.jpg

 

Track Properties Showing Repeated 98,422' Elevations With 0' Distance/0:00:01 Time Segments

2_Track_Properties_042906.jpg

 

Below are screen shots from the 60CSx that created the above track. I received the 60CSx from Garmin as a 'new' replacement on 04/28/06.

 

The following four screen shots were saved late last night and very early this morning. The 60CSx was leaning against a north-facing window in our 8th floor apartment at a < 90' elevation above sea level and with "3D" SV acquisition and a good EPE. The GPSr hadn't been moved for hours. More details about what transpired are in Post #40 above.

 

2355 Hours 04/29/06

3_Elev18530_2352_042906.jpg

2352 hours 04/29/06

 

4_Elev16669_2355_042906.jpg

 

2359 Hours 04/29/06

5_Elev14635_2359_042906.jpg

 

0026 Hours 04/30/06

 

6_BlankElev_0026_043006.jpg

 

This morning, I powered-up the 60CSx and got a reasonably decent elevation. Again, the unit was leaning against the 8th floor window with good SV acquisitions.

 

0924 Hours This Morning (04/30/06)

7_ElevPostReset_0924_043006.jpg

 

A short while ago, I noticed that the elevation reading had again gone blank ("_ _ _ _ _ ft."). The 60CSx has been leaning against the same 8th floor window with "3D" acquisition and a ±21' EPE.

 

1504 Hours Today After Leaning Against Window All Day Untouched

8_BlankElev_1504_043006.jpg

 

I'll report again if and when I hear from Garmin.

 

TracknQ

 

P.S. If anyone knows how I can create columns in which to insert side-by-side screen shots, please let me know. Thanks. T'nQ

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I would say I can confirm it's not a low elevation issue. I have the same problems with mine at the 900-1700' range of elevations. So I don't think it's tied to being close to sea level.

 

Also if you track the barometer on the data fields I think you will find that when the elevation crashes the barometer does the same. Mine tanks to like 54hg when the elevation crashes to -----.

Edited by toddm
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I would say I can confirm it's not a low elevation issue. I have the same problems with mine at the 900-1700' range of elevations. So I don't think it's tied to being close to sea level.

 

 

Thanks toddm. That removes one possible explanation and narrows our search for a solution. Have you noticed a severe depletion of your track log space of the sort that Brian and I have experienced? Here's what my track log looked like after yesterday's 7-mile walk.

 

9_32PercentTrackLogUsageIn7Mi_042906.jpg

 

Aloha,

 

TracknQ

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My idea didn't pan out...I thought it may have to do with the tradklog rolling over, but others as well as myself ruled that out.

 

I've been operating from 600-1200 ft, (too close to Kansas elevation), never below 500'.

 

I just wish Garmin would tell us something about it, and estimate a timeframe for a fix.

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Guess No. 3: I'm wondering if turning the 60CSx off and then back on may be a possible fix. Lots of folks are having problems after exiting from tunnels. They can't re-aquire SVs without first powering off and on. Maybe their problem is somehow related to ours. If so, the SiRF III chip may be implicated.

 

When this happened a second time to me I turned th eunit off and on again and everything returned to normal as far as I could tell so you could be on to something, except that I did not go through a tunnel, I was standing out in the open.

 

 

Late last night, I had my 60CSx leaning against the inside of a north-facing window of our 8th-floor apartment, less than 90 feet above sea level. The Satellite Page showed signals from nine SVs, "3D" acquisition, and a ±21' EPE. The sky was clear, and the weather was not stormy (i.e., there was nothing apparent that might affect the barometer). I had the 60CSx connected via USB cable to my PC. I went to turn off the 60CSx and was startled to see an 18,530' elevation on the Trip Computer Page. I took four screen shots with xImage. Over the course of seven minutes, the elevation fell to 14,635 feet. About a half-hour later, the Elevation reading was "_ _ _ _ _ ft."

 

.

 

I have not had the GPS creep up to the high altitude (at least it is not apparent in the tracklog). It goes from 87 feet to 98421 feet from one trackpoint to the next. THat is not to say that someting is not happening in the few seconds between the last good trackpoint and the first one with a bad elevation.

 

AHA! I just noticed something else in the tracklog --> the time jumped backwards 12 seconds when we got the bad elevation. Time went from like this over four trackpoints:

11:44:25 (good elev)

11:44:58 (good elev)

11:44:46 (bad elev)

11:44:47 (bad elev)

 

This still looks fixable in firmware to me - otherwise they are going to have to recall all of their units to replace a systemic faulty component.

 

Keep the pressure on Garmin. I'm thinking of posting this issue on Amazon so they realize that it could impact their sales. I'll give them a few more days to give me a good answer first.

 

Brian

 

Brian

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I just received the following response from Garmin on my 2nd Request for a response on this altimeter problem:

 

"I am writing in regards to your 60CSx altimeter issue. I would be happy to assist you with this. In regards to this issue, this is a hardware issue with the altimeter itself. Unit software will not address this issue, as the altimeter itself is failing. I have set up warranty RMA for you to send the unit in under."

 

So my GPS goes back tomorrow...

 

This is the first I've heard confirmation that firmware WILL NOT fix the elevation issue. I'm also a little skeptical about sending the unit in since others have been reporting repeat issues with replacement units, I guess we'll see.

 

That also is a good reason that collectively we can't establish a pattern of events associated with the issue!

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Yeah I was wondering about that, I believe the same may be true of the lost signal problems in regaining satelite lock as well in tunnels and such.

 

Just because I have to believe if they could fix these kind of problems with firmware it would have been done asap, just due to the severity of the problem.

 

I will wait to send mine in until someone gets a replacement unit that actually corrects the problem, so far replacement units have all had the same issues. So they may just be replacing units to try and keep customers happy even though it's not fixing the problem.

 

If it is a faulty hardware issue, worse yet two seperate hardware issues, one with the altimeter and one with the chipset regaining lock, they are really going to have to replace a ton of units at a huge expense. If they don't they'll be asking for a class action similar to the one sony just got tagged with bigtime from putting defective image sensors in camcorders/cameras.

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OUTRAGEOUS!

 

started a new track. One mile into the walk, the elevation and maximum elevation readings went blank. I recalibrated the altimeter to 13 feet at a control station and benchmark 5+ miles into the walk. When I got

 

FYI, I went for a bike ride yesterday and I too experienced the exact same thing not long after I started riding. I ended up recalibrating the altimeter in order to get it working again.

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I have had a MAP76CSx for about 2 months now. I did see this 98,xxx ft eleveation problem on my first hike, shortly after getting this new GPS. I recalibrated the altimeter and reset the unit. Since that first error, I have used the MAP76CSx almost daily for the last 6 weeks. The altimeter has been working without error and without the need to recalibrate. It sounds like many Cx users may have this hardware problem, but at least for now, my unit is not failing. I'll keep an eye on it and request a replacement from Garmin if it fails again.

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