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Destructive Geocachers...


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In our area of Geocache Heaven are some newbies who tend to destroy everything they touch. Well-planned, wonderfully executed Geocaches are getting trashed by these people.

I'm not saying that they find the cache, exchange good stuff for garbage or anything (I think they've done that, but can't prove anything), but what they do is worse.

- Caches with wonderful camouflage get left on the ground, exposed to the elements and geo-muggles;

- They have broken cache components that make it impossible for the next person to locate or log the find;

- They post blatant hints about the whereabouts of the cache for others, or email folks in the area to give them hints, or outright tell them where and how to find the cache.

 

This is just ridiculous. They will destroy a cache and then post it as DNF, but say that they found parts of the cache on the ground, broken. At first it was thought that muggles were doing the deed, but after six or seven events like this, with them being the only finders in common, well, it is pretty obvious that they are the culprits. When gently confronted with the evidence they return a response that doesn't admit or deny, but asks what MY problem is, then ask, "why are you so uptight?"

 

Yeah, maybe I'm too uptight. Maybe I put too much effort into this game and expect courtesy and respect in return, and that is asking too much. ARGH! :lol:

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In our area of Geocache Heaven are some newbies who tend to destroy everything they touch. Well-planned, wonderfully executed Geocaches are getting trashed by these people.

I'm not saying that they find the cache, exchange good stuff for garbage or anything (I think they've done that, but can't prove anything), but what they do is worse.

- Caches with wonderful camouflage get left on the ground, exposed to the elements and geo-muggles;

- They have broken cache components that make it impossible for the next person to locate or log the find;

- They post blatant hints about the whereabouts of the cache for others, or email folks in the area to give them hints, or outright tell them where and how to find the cache.

 

This is just ridiculous. They will destroy a cache and then post it as DNF, but say that they found parts of the cache on the ground, broken. At first it was thought that muggles were doing the deed, but after six or seven events like this, with them being the only finders in common, well, it is pretty obvious that they are the culprits. When gently confronted with the evidence they return a response that doesn't admit or deny, but asks what MY problem is, then ask, "why are you so uptight?"

 

Yeah, maybe I'm too uptight. Maybe I put too much effort into this game and expect courtesy and respect in return, and that is asking too much. ARGH! :lol:

 

Have you thought of hiding a "special" geocache just for them?

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Irony rears its ugly head once again. I just mentioned yesterday in another post about cache cop type stuff and commented that cache pirates hadn't surfaced since the thing a couple years ago. However, this is a bit different. They are simply cache vandals and should be reported to TPTB. Hopefully something can be done about it on that level.

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A song by the late musical genius Frank Zappa just came to mind after reading this post. Part of one verse says "California's got the most of them". Not to cut down Californians and I didn't think Frank ment to either, but the name of the tune is Flakes. And please don't get me wrong. Minnesota is full of jack a@@es.

 

If only we lived in a world where everone was respectful and had common sense.

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I have learned in my experience that newbie cachers only need to be reminded of the proper Geocaching Etiquette. After nicely asking the newbies not to include the exact cache location in the log and to hide the caches back the way they found them, I have learned in most cases that they learn from their mistakes. In my case, it only took a simple email to the newbies.

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A song by the late musical genius Frank Zappa just came to mind after reading this post. Part of one verse says "California's got the most of them". Not to cut down Californians and I didn't think Frank ment to either, but the name of the tune is Flakes. And please don't get me wrong. Minnesota is full of jack a@@es.

 

If only we lived in a world where everone was respectful and had common sense.

 

Funny you should mention that song! Zappa's "Flakes" is one of the first things that comes to mind when I see people doing really foolish, ignorant or destructive things. "Just remember... never flush a tampooooon."

 

Oh well.

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Maybe you could try organizing a group cache hunt and make sure to include them. Maybe they just need a little peer pressure to act more civilized. You know, show them "the right" way to do things.

 

This is better than my solution.

 

I'm curious to know what Renegade Knight's approach would be. :anicute:

 

The folks in question were initiated into caching by other family members in their area. They have been invited to cache in a group, usually after one of our monthly events. Only once did they go along, and then they disappeared after one cache, and only because they were upset that they weren't first to find on that one (many had looked, nobody had found that one).

 

Their specific destruction is that usually they can't leave a cache intact. Something always ends up broken, and on the caches they insist on hunting for, if the cache isn't put back just as it was found, it will either get muggled or following cachers will be unable to log the cache due to the destruction. Considering how much work the cache hider (not me, yet) has put into the hide, this gets pretty frustrating.

 

I have about twelve truly evil caches on my desk ready to hide, and I'm seriously hoping that these folks don't find their way to my neck of the woods.

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Have you considered burying them in SC? That will keep them away from caches!

 

I just can't understand why someone would do that. Is it done to all caches or just those placed by some hiders?

 

Better yet since it seems JX has some "interesting" micros in one guy's opinion, send them there.

 

Now honestly, hold an event and if they come talk about everything in a general sense...like "so your new to geocaching...here are some tips..."

 

If that does not work proceed to whip out the ammo cans and beat them over the head until they get the point :anicute:

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Irony rears its ugly head once again. I just mentioned yesterday in another post about cache cop type stuff and commented that cache pirates hadn't surfaced since the thing a couple years ago. However, this is a bit different. They are simply cache vandals and should be reported to TPTB. Hopefully something can be done about it on that level.

What is TPTB:?

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You could try the group thing again, I'd go much smaller and let these guys find it first to observe their habits.

 

I'd also be very sure before I accuse anyone of anything. If it's not them after all that's a serious foot-in-mouth.

 

If you figure out it is them for sure and they don't respond to polite suggestions, you could always try beating them senseless.

 

How bout a cache that appears on webcam, but with no mention of the webcam, so you can keep an eye on it? I screenshot of them ruining a site would go a long way. At least then after you posted that they would probably feel the pressure from the whole geo community and not just you.

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Irony rears its ugly head once again. I just mentioned yesterday in another post about cache cop type stuff and commented that cache pirates hadn't surfaced since the thing a couple years ago. However, this is a bit different. They are simply cache vandals and should be reported to TPTB. Hopefully something can be done about it on that level.

What is TPTB:?

 

The Powers That Be

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In our area of Geocache Heaven are some newbies who tend to destroy everything they touch. Well-planned, wonderfully executed Geocaches are getting trashed by these people.

I'm not saying that they find the cache, exchange good stuff for garbage or anything (I think they've done that, but can't prove anything), but what they do is worse.

- Caches with wonderful camouflage get left on the ground, exposed to the elements and geo-muggles;

- They have broken cache components that make it impossible for the next person to locate or log the find;

- They post blatant hints about the whereabouts of the cache for others, or email folks in the area to give them hints, or outright tell them where and how to find the cache.

 

This is just ridiculous. They will destroy a cache and then post it as DNF, but say that they found parts of the cache on the ground, broken. At first it was thought that muggles were doing the deed, but after six or seven events like this, with them being the only finders in common, well, it is pretty obvious that they are the culprits. When gently confronted with the evidence they return a response that doesn't admit or deny, but asks what MY problem is, then ask, "why are you so uptight?"

 

Yeah, maybe I'm too uptight. Maybe I put too much effort into this game and expect courtesy and respect in return, and that is asking too much. ARGH! :anicute:

 

First, allow me to say that I feel that you may have omitted the most important item, and that is cache hunters who damage or destroy gardens, lawns, rock walls or other natural artifacts or even civil infrastructure, or who trespass on posted property, in their unbridled search for a cache. And, I would also add that the third item which you mention, that of hints, is not a major concern to me. It seems that this always happens as a cache ages and as it accrues a greter number of finders, and the cache owner is, of course, free to ask the finder to remove the hints and blurts from their log entries, or even to delete the log entry entirely, if warranted.

 

Well, you are hardly alone in noticing this phenomenon. I have mentioned this matter before in several posts here in the past, particularly the one about cache seekers who damage shrubs, gardens, lawns and rock walls. or who trespass on posted private property while seeking a cache. I have actually nixed wonderful potential cache placement sites because I realized that some cache hunters would engage in one or more of the above behaviors, and I was not willing to allow that!

 

My own personal suspicion is that this phenomenon is largely inevitable as the sport becomes more and more popular, and as a wider range of people and types of people are drawn to the sport. I suspect that we will see more of this as the sport grows ever more popular, for that is simply human nature. In fact, if anything ever leads to the demise of geocaching, it will likely be this cluster of behaviors -- and particularly the trashing of the area around a hide site -- which some cache hunters exhibit.

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A few weeks ago I had a trip to Kentucky scheduled, and I figured I'd pick up a few TBs to take along. I went out the Saturday before the trip and a hit a few local caches (that I'd never been to before) only to find that I was 10 minutes behind someone else at each cache. At one cache this person picked up a well travelled geocoin that I was hoping to move along.

 

Fast forward. On returning from Kentucky a co-worker asked me to go out at lunch and help him find a cache that he wasn't able to find the evening before. The cache site is a huge pile of deadfall braches, and while we're searching another cacher shows up and joins in. We did not find the cache before our lunch was over and wished the other cacher good luck. Later in the day my co-worker informs me that the other cacher has logged a find on the cache. After work my co-worker heads back to the cache site to finish his search and finds that the entire deadfall pile has had the crap kicked out of it. I'm talking branches strewn over a 20 meter area. My co-worker had no problem logging the find, since the cache was laying on the ground with three twigs on it. He did his best to put the pile back together, and having been back since I have to say he did a good job.

 

Postscript: Checking the logs on this cache I found that the guy who destroyed the cache site was the same guy I was tailing prior to my trip to Kentucky. Not surprisingly, the geocoin he picked up has never been seen again.

 

I feel your pain.

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Let me first say that making any caches Member's Only won't do any good... been there, tried that. The minute that they had heard that others had logged a local find that didn't show up on their list, they became members.

 

Secondly, I agree with the comment about destroying flora and fauna around caches. It is always bad when you come to a cache site and you don't need to use Geo-senses, because there is a clearly visible trail stomped down around the cache, making it look as though a herd of water buffalo were all trying to get to the same spot at the same time. This is one very good reason for not hiding caches in geologically- or biologically-sensitive areas (don't get me started on THAT topic! argh!). :unsure:

 

I'm all for taking these people caching in a large group - as long as they don't have to ride with me (*shudder*) :huh: . Will definitely have to take the Jeep (with 4" of lift and a removable back seat) on that outing.

 

One of the reasons that we know these folks are the culprits is that they sometimes take the destroyed cache home. They then email the person who placed it to saying that they found the cache in the broken state. I suppose that that might be their one saving grace, or was. Lately, they just comment in their find log that the cache is broken. The damage is always the same - like someone with foot-wide fingers is trying to handle something delicate. "Bull in a China Shop" comes to mind.

 

Oh, and here in the Pacific Northwest, where it rains 100+ inches a year, very little makes me more angry than idiots who can't bother to zip the ziplock shut for the logbook! There is a special place in hell for those people... especially when they insist on being FTF and then it is ruined for everyone else. :)

 

(Playing Zappa refrain on mental soundtrack)

Edited by The GeoGadgets Team
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Let me first say that making any caches Member's Only won't do any good... been there, tried that. The minute that they had heard that others had logged a local find that didn't show up on their list, they became members.

 

Very strange behavior.

 

No one here can really do anything about it - even the site is unlikely to lock their account.

 

Cache owners can delete their online logs, but I doubt it will do anything positive.

 

Sounds to me like they aren't receptive to discussion about it.

 

Best you can hope for is to hope they grow out of it.

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Let me first say that making any caches Member's Only won't do any good... been there, tried that. The minute that they had heard that others had logged a local find that didn't show up on their list, they became members.

 

Speaking for ourselves, in our region, making a cache Premium members-only (PMOC) does indeed seem to vastly improve the prospects for the safety of the cache, reduces maintenance, keeps the hide area more pristine, and also acts to keep the quality of trade items at a rather high level. In this area, PMOC may not keep all the badly-behaved cache hunters away, but it sure keeps a majority of them at bay.

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I don't know what the deal is with people not being able to replace things as they were found.

 

I have a 2-step multi in which you must search for the second stage's coordinates in a small area of landscaping with river stones. The coordinates are stamped on rocks that I bring in myself, so I didn't deface or steal any of the landscaping stones (actually I put several out to increase the odds of finding it easily). I state in the hint where the rocks should be found and replaced, even uploaded a spoiler photo. In the time that this cache has been active, I have had to replace the coordinates at least four times. That is at least 12 handstamped stones that have gone "missing" without a trace. I must then assume they are being taken as souveniers because that is just way too many stones to go missing for no apparent reason.

It has a detrimental effect on the area, since any cachers after the "takers" end up having to turn over every stone in a vain attempt to locate something that isn't there anymore. The place ends up looking mauled.

 

This is going to force me to change the cache to a standard one-step traditional, when it could have continued to be a fun, different kind of multi that finders were enjoying. It isn't any fun for me at this point, hence the upcoming elimination of the first stage. *sigh*

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Its terrible that people, muggles or other geocachers are trashing cache's, but making it a members only cache might not change anything, how do u know the geocacher's who are trashing it aren't paying members? Couldn't a 'newbee" b e a paying member? Things getting destroyed sometimes is a fact of life sometimes. s*** happens. Theres nothing that can be done that will stop it. Theres always going to be people who want to wreck things regardless of whats done.

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