60csx Waas Question

[indygpser]

I just received my new Garmin 60csx. I live in the Indianapolis, Indiana area and the WAAS satellite that can be tracked in this area is #35. I noticed that when I enabled WAAS and go to the satellite page, #35 blinks off and on and the signal bar is hollow. I also don't see "d" in any of the signal bars. Should this be happening? Am I in WAAS mode?

 

I also own a Nuvi 350 and I get the same condition....blinking #35 and no "d" in any of the signal bars. Thanks.

Edited April 9, 2006 by indygpser

[AKDub]

I purchased a 60csx a couple of weeks ago and noticed the same thing. I compared my 60CSX with a Rhino 530 and E-Trex Vista and found that the two older non-SiRF GPSrs were getting a WAAS corrected fix, while the 60csx wouldn't. I contacted GARMIN's Tech Support and asked them why this was- here's the reply that I got:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin

 

I'll be glad to help. The new SiRF units are not really capible of obtaining

a WAAS fix at this time. Alone, the units can get down to 6-7 feet of

accuracy without WAAS, and according to engineers, even with WAAS the

correction is less than 6 inches at best. At this time, I am not sure if

they will go though the effort to make the units work with WAAS or not. Most

likely the option will be dropped with future updates because of the lack of

benefit.

 

If you need further assistance, please reply to this email or contact our

800 number listed below.

 

Best Regards,

 

Brock Ainsworth

Product Support Specialist

Garmin International

1200 E 151st Street

Olathe, KS 66062

www.garmin.com

1-800-800-1020

techsupp@garmin.com

 

So after reading the e-mail I went back to Garmin's website and took a look at the product page for the 60csx, and yep, sure enough, there was an icon on the top that hinted that the unit was "WAAS Enabled". The WAAS functionality was also listed as a primary product feature. Oh, and wouldn't you know it, the box for the unit has the same things noted. I replied to the e-mail above voicing my concerns and asking how Garmin could legally sell the unit as a WAAS capable unit when their tech support seems to be OK saying that it isn't. Here's the reply to that e-mail:

 

Ben, I am sorry that you are unhappy with this, and I can understand your frustration. If and when there are any developments, I will be happy to advise you. Please keep your unit up to date as unit function may be changed or improved in the future with update. But as I mentioned the units without WAAS are just as accurate as with WAAS. The most accuracy I have seen with a WAAS enabled unit, in our building with a repeater, (that enables all satellites at 100% strength) is 6-7 feet. I can get the same accuracy with the 76csx with WAAS not enabled. I will keep tabs on any future developments, and if you have any questions feel free.

 

Please, because of time restraints, keep responses as concise as possible.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

If you need further assistance, please reply to this email or contact our 800 number listed below.

 

Best Regards,

 

Brock Ainsworth

Product Support Specialist

Garmin International

1200 E 151st Street

Olathe, KS 66062

www.garmin.com

1-800-800-1020

techsupp@garmin.com

 

I'm sorry, but this doesn't cut it. If you advertise the unit as WAAS enabled, sell it as such, you should support it as the same. When a customer asks a question about a problem with one of the features don't explain it away or downplay it's importance. Seems like a classic example of bait and switch and false advertising. Not to mention that my primary concern with the unit's performance is the positioin wander that I experience, above and beyond what I get with an e-trex Vista. WAAS capability would help correct the 1/4 mile hikes that my unit takes while sitting stationary with a clear view of the horizons.

 

Garmin needs to send their engineers back to the drawing board to correct this, and their sales department needs a wake-up call. I urge any of you out there that have notice the same thing to contact Garmin and ask them to correct this, and also forward your concerns to the FTC. We paid too much money for a WAAS enabled receiver for Garmin to try to downplay it's importance.

 

I don't know if I got a bum unit on top of the fact that I'm more than a little miffed at the bait and switch, but I can't help but feel I got swindled. We shouldn't let them get away with this.

 

AKDUB

[+Geopelli]

I purchased a 60csx a couple of weeks ago and noticed the same thing. I compared my 60CSX with a Rhino 530 and E-Trex Vista and found that the two older non-SiRF GPSrs were getting a WAAS corrected fix, while the 60csx wouldn't. I contacted GARMIN's Tech Support and asked them why this was- here's the reply that I got:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin

 

I'll be glad to help. The new SiRF units are not really capible of obtaining

a WAAS fix at this time. Alone, the units can get down to 6-7 feet of

accuracy without WAAS, and according to engineers, even with WAAS the

correction is less than 6 inches at best. At this time, I am not sure if

they will go though the effort to make the units work with WAAS or not. Most

likely the option will be dropped with future updates because of the lack of

benefit.

 

If you need further assistance, please reply to this email or contact our

800 number listed below.

 

Best Regards,

 

Brock Ainsworth

Product Support Specialist

Garmin International

1200 E 151st Street

Olathe, KS 66062

www.garmin.com

1-800-800-1020

techsupp@garmin.com

 

So after reading the e-mail I went back to Garmin's website and took a look at the product page for the 60csx, and yep, sure enough, there was an icon on the top that hinted that the unit was "WAAS Enabled". The WAAS functionality was also listed as a primary product feature. Oh, and wouldn't you know it, the box for the unit has the same things noted. I replied to the e-mail above voicing my concerns and asking how Garmin could legally sell the unit as a WAAS capable unit when their tech support seems to be OK saying that it isn't. Here's the reply to that e-mail:

 

Ben, I am sorry that you are unhappy with this, and I can understand your frustration. If and when there are any developments, I will be happy to advise you. Please keep your unit up to date as unit function may be changed or improved in the future with update. But as I mentioned the units without WAAS are just as accurate as with WAAS. The most accuracy I have seen with a WAAS enabled unit, in our building with a repeater, (that enables all satellites at 100% strength) is 6-7 feet. I can get the same accuracy with the 76csx with WAAS not enabled. I will keep tabs on any future developments, and if you have any questions feel free.

 

Please, because of time restraints, keep responses as concise as possible.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

If you need further assistance, please reply to this email or contact our 800 number listed below.

 

Best Regards,

 

Brock Ainsworth

Product Support Specialist

Garmin International

1200 E 151st Street

Olathe, KS 66062

www.garmin.com

1-800-800-1020

techsupp@garmin.com

 

I'm sorry, but this doesn't cut it. If you advertise the unit as WAAS enabled, sell it as such, you should support it as the same. When a customer asks a question about a problem with one of the features don't explain it away or downplay it's importance. Seems like a classic example of bait and switch and false advertising. Not to mention that my primary concern with the unit's performance is the positioin wander that I experience, above and beyond what I get with an e-trex Vista. WAAS capability would help correct the 1/4 mile hikes that my unit takes while sitting stationary with a clear view of the horizons.

 

Garmin needs to send their engineers back to the drawing board to correct this, and their sales department needs a wake-up call. I urge any of you out there that have notice the same thing to contact Garmin and ask them to correct this, and also forward your concerns to the FTC. We paid too much money for a WAAS enabled receiver for Garmin to try to downplay it's importance.

 

I don't know if I got a bum unit on top of the fact that I'm more than a little miffed at the bait and switch, but I can't help but feel I got swindled. We shouldn't let them get away with this.

 

AKDUB

[+Geopelli]

My 60cx locked on this morning in my living room and I had #35 flashing and d's. I took a screen shot and when I figure out how to post it i'll add it. I new but have been reading this forum for a few months now. That is why I bought the 60cx. If someone could tell me how to do the screen shot I will post it.

[+gLOBALfINDER]

WAAS is one of the primary reasons I bought this unit. The Garmin website says this (among other things) about the 6oCSx:

 

"New high-sensitivity WAAS-capable GPS receiver by SiRF"

 

If this technician knows what he's talking about, Garmin better fix this but fast! I am personally outraged.

[+rstickle]

I have also gotten #35 and "D"s on my CSx. And yesterday going through the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel I also got the satellite lock out "bug" and had to turn the unit off and on to re-aquire, I was ready for that one though!

 

Rick

[AKDub]

Garmin's site sure does tout the 60csx as definately being WAAS capable. All of their literature points in that direction, as does the packaging and product manual. There is even a user setting to disable and enable WAAS/EGNOS support.

 

Heck- even when you dig into SiRF's website for the SiRFstarIII (the chipset in the "x" series), one of the features listed on the product information page is "SBAS (WAAS/EGNOS) Support"

 

It's unacceptable to me to have been misled like this. This is 2006 and my new unit has about 10 times the position drift as a unit that I've had since 2003.

 

I think a pic showing an "x" series locked up with a "D" in the signal bar would be helpful, because in another e-mail from Mr. Ainsworth he indicated the following:

 

From: TechSupp <techsupp@garmin.com> Mailed-By: garmin.com

To: Ben Ruel <ben.ruel@gmail.com>

Date: Apr 7, 2006 6:10 PM

Subject: RE: Tech support request for GPSMAP 60CSx

Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Add sender to Contacts list | Delete this message | Report phishing | Show original | Message text garbled?

 

Another important thing to note is that the SiRF units do not display a D when they receive WAAS.

 

 

Which, OK, fine, but the satellite information page still allows slots for PRN numbers above 30. If there proof out there of a "x" unit with a "D" in the bars, that would tend to further discredit their stance.

 

I'm going to let this fester for another day or two, then I'm going to block off some phone time to play the "Let me talk to your supervisor" game.

 

Ben Ruel

A.K.A.

AKDub

[Neo_Geo]

If someone could tell me how to do the screen shot I will post it.

Register with PHOTBUCKET and then post your image there. Copy the URL of the photo. To get the image to show up in a message here, you need to do a "Reply" or "New Topic" so you get the text toolbar when composing the message. If you do a "Fast Reply", then the toolbar doesn't appear. When you're ready to insert the picture in your message, look at the toolbar - You'll see B I U S | A | Then you see a globe, an envelope and a picture of a tree ( ). Click on the picture of the tree. A new window will appear in the upper left area of the screen. Paste your image's entire URL there and click the "OK" button. Your image's URL will appear in the text surrounded by the necessary HTML code to show the image in the message.

Edited April 9, 2006 by Neo_Geo

[+EraSeek]

This is all very ineresting.

So here are the things I have heard.

The new units will pick up only one WAAS sat at a time.

They do not display "D's", ( but they do or have in the past)

Can't do WAAS right now and may not in the future (but have in the past)

 

Obviously there are some bugs to work out. You might let them sort things out before you blast them. As to the units, from what I've seen they are super sensitive. You can get a position where others can't even go. That's really good. As to WAAS, well, there is no way of correcting those errors without WAAS. The new duel civilian ones will do some of it, but only WAAS do do it all. As to do we need WAAS. Truely for our purposes it is not that big of a deal. It will get you much closer but we are talking 15' or 20' down to 5' or 10' in a good open area when corrections are needed.

 

So I guess I'd say give them some slack and see where they go with this. What happens if They dump WAAS? Ok, what happens if they keep it but have to sacrifice the sensitivity of the new chip to do it?

[yeeoldcacher]

I purchased a 60csx a couple of weeks ago and noticed the same thing. I compared my 60CSX with a Rhino 530 and E-Trex Vista and found that the two older non-SiRF GPSrs were getting a WAAS corrected fix, while the 60csx wouldn't. I contacted GARMIN's Tech Support and asked them why this was- here's the reply that I got:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin

 

I'll be glad to help. The new SiRF units are not really capible of obtaining

a WAAS fix at this time. Alone, the units can get down to 6-7 feet of

accuracy without WAAS, and according to engineers, even with WAAS the

correction is less than 6 inches at best. At this time, I am not sure if

they will go though the effort to make the units work with WAAS or not. Most

likely the option will be dropped with future updates because of the lack of

benefit.

 

If you need further assistance, please reply to this email or contact our

800 number listed below.

 

Best Regards,

 

Brock Ainsworth

Product Support Specialist

Garmin International

1200 E 151st Street

Olathe, KS 66062

www.garmin.com

1-800-800-1020

techsupp@garmin.com

 

So after reading the e-mail I went back to Garmin's website and took a look at the product page for the 60csx, and yep, sure enough, there was an icon on the top that hinted that the unit was "WAAS Enabled". The WAAS functionality was also listed as a primary product feature. Oh, and wouldn't you know it, the box for the unit has the same things noted. I replied to the e-mail above voicing my concerns and asking how Garmin could legally sell the unit as a WAAS capable unit when their tech support seems to be OK saying that it isn't. Here's the reply to that e-mail:

 

Ben, I am sorry that you are unhappy with this, and I can understand your frustration. If and when there are any developments, I will be happy to advise you. Please keep your unit up to date as unit function may be changed or improved in the future with update. But as I mentioned the units without WAAS are just as accurate as with WAAS. The most accuracy I have seen with a WAAS enabled unit, in our building with a repeater, (that enables all satellites at 100% strength) is 6-7 feet. I can get the same accuracy with the 76csx with WAAS not enabled. I will keep tabs on any future developments, and if you have any questions feel free.

 

Please, because of time restraints, keep responses as concise as possible.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

If you need further assistance, please reply to this email or contact our 800 number listed below.

 

Best Regards,

 

Brock Ainsworth

Product Support Specialist

Garmin International

1200 E 151st Street

Olathe, KS 66062

www.garmin.com

1-800-800-1020

techsupp@garmin.com

 

I'm sorry, but this doesn't cut it. If you advertise the unit as WAAS enabled, sell it as such, you should support it as the same. When a customer asks a question about a problem with one of the features don't explain it away or downplay it's importance. Seems like a classic example of bait and switch and false advertising. Not to mention that my primary concern with the unit's performance is the positioin wander that I experience, above and beyond what I get with an e-trex Vista. WAAS capability would help correct the 1/4 mile hikes that my unit takes while sitting stationary with a clear view of the horizons.

 

Garmin needs to send their engineers back to the drawing board to correct this, and their sales department needs a wake-up call. I urge any of you out there that have notice the same thing to contact Garmin and ask them to correct this, and also forward your concerns to the FTC. We paid too much money for a WAAS enabled receiver for Garmin to try to downplay it's importance.

 

I don't know if I got a bum unit on top of the fact that I'm more than a little miffed at the bait and switch, but I can't help but feel I got swindled. We shouldn't let them get away with this.

 

AKDUB

 

I think you need to read this thread to get a better understanding of the current problems for WAAS and how they affect the Sirf receiver. Also, for what it is worth, my 60Cx gets an accurate enough signal for me without WAAS.

 

 

 

 

http://image-hosting.hostwire.com/images/h.../60cxscreen.jpg

[indygpser]

Well, some say they are seeing d's (yet still no screenshots). If that is true, why would some 60cxs units have the d's and other units not? I also own a Nuvi and get the same condition...no d's. I emailed Garmin and they indicated that I am still receiveing WAAS correction even though my Nuvi is not displaying the d's. Yet Garmin has also said in other emails to users on this board that the X units don't receive WAAS. Which is it? This is ridiculous and is piss-poor marketing on Garmin's part, if in fact the X units don't receive WAAS.

[yeeoldcacher]

Well, some say they are seeing d's (yet still no screenshots). If that is true, why would some 60cxs units have the d's and other units not? I also own a Nuvi and get the same condition...no d's. I emailed Garmin and they indicated that I am still receiveing WAAS correction even though my Nuvi is not displaying the d's. Yet Garmin has also said in other emails to users on this board that the X units don't receive WAAS. Which is it? This is ridiculous and is piss-poor marketing on Garmin's part, if in fact the X units don't receive WAAS.

With the satellites moving(having a side effect on the signal since the WAAS satellites are not clocked), there is the probability that differential correction will be intermittent at best with Sirf chips, at least until the satellites are again geostationary. You can read more about this below.

 

http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps.html

[Kenjobi]

The above picture confirms that the 60CSx does show D's on the signal strength bars when a WAAS/EGNOS fix is available. I get them with EGNOS where I live and I have also seen them with WAAS when I was last in the States.

However, I have never seen the estimated accuracy figure reduce once the WAAS/EGNOS fix is established and I have never seen the signal bar for the WAAS/EGNOS satellites go solid.

This thread confirms for me that until Garmin fix the WAAS/EGNOS problems, it is better to disable WAAS/EGNOS on the x units. Note also that the problem whereby the unit fails to regain a fix after losing a signal such as when going through a tunnel never occurs if you disable WAAS/EGNOS.

Edited April 9, 2006 by Kenjobi

[AKDub]

Thanks for the picture Kenjobi. Just out of curiosity - what firmware version are you using?

 

Based solely on the e-mail correspondence from the tech-rep, either Garmin is pulling some sort of stunt, the SiRF chips are completely unstable, or the Tech Rep hasn't a clue. Either way it'd be more responsible for the rep to refer the question to someone who knows better rather than make something up.

 

I live in NE, but between work and play I have access to 8 other SDGPS units that are getting a WAAS fix. The only odd man out is the SiRF chip. The 60CSX is consistently the furthest out from corrected benchmarks, and drifts at an alarming rate.

 

Bottom line is I paid for a WAAS enabled GPSr, I'd like some affirmation that I got what I paid for. None of us would settle for a TV that was advertised as having 2 S-video inputs if it showed up with only an "Antenna In" jack. We also wouldn't be that satified if the tech rep's solution to your problem was "You don't really need it, and we have no plans for making it available."

 

The first time I called tech support on the phone, the rep I spoke with seemed puzzled and walked me through a master reset. So already there's some disparity. Now there's pictures of a 60CSX with a "D" lock. WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? The only difference in the units should be the serial number!!

 

Why would the RCVR reserve slots for PRN's higher than 35 and show intermittent signals if it was never intended to work.

 

BTW- best EPE I've gotten out of the 60CSX is +/- 21' - Seing the 7 is a little alarming. And New England isn't an excuse- I've gotten locks on Ross Island in Antarctica before, so satellite elevation above the horizon is a crock....

 

I've got 10+ years experience as a marine NAV/COMMS tech and have seen much lesser units perform better at the ends of the ends of the earth- Vermont should not be a challenge. If Garmin wants to tell me that due to the move of AOR-W the PDOP/HDOP is out of range for an SBAS correction in the Northeast, then that's fine, but don't explain it away as "We got your money. We say you don't need it. We probably won't give it to you.." Bottom line is that the box says it's WAAS enabled, and that's what I want!

 

/end_rant

[+rocketbob]

I've been getting D's with WAAS with my 60CSx ever since I got it 2 weeks ago. I've updated to firmware to 2.60. I'm in Utah, further west than most posters.

 

I usually get Satellite 35 but often get 47. But, never both at once. The GPSr will switch between them as I move around. The attached pictures were taken from inside my house near a west facing window this morning. Near the window I get Satellite 35 as I move away I get WAAS corrections from 47. I cannot tell if WAAS improves the accuracy. Turning WAAS on or off doesn’t change the reported accuracy, maybe I need to give it more time. I also am not seeing a benefit of WAAS with my Etrex Vista. Until 35 was moved I could only rarely get 47 on the Vista, now I do get 35. The 60CSx clearly has better reception for both GPS and WAAS.

 

...

[-Oz-]

I also have gotten D's with mine (i normally keep waas off for battery life). But yeah, I've had 11 satellites all with the D showing as correction. My accurracy was also better than the person above at the time (9ft). Regretably I was driving so no laptop so no screenshot.

 

I am in Arizona so also out west.

[+WolfTrekker]

I'v'e had my 60csx for 2 days now and I get D's on all my sats. I had a WAAS bird earlier today, but I as well was driving and have no screenshot., at the time my accuracy was only down to 9 ft. I did, by the way, update the unit as soon as I got it, so maybe that has something to with it?

[+stiffler]

I got my csx 2 weeks ago and haven't seen any D's. I haven't got below 12 acc. with WAAS on or off. Usually around 14 to 17 ft. I'm in NE PA. Anyone know the WAAS sat # for this area??

 

I was also wondering since no Lithium catagory for batteries, what should I use if I have Lithium in.

Alk or NiCd????????

 

Thanks

Edited April 10, 2006 by stiffler

[+buzpilot]

I also have gotten D's with mine (i normally keep waas off for battery life). But yeah, I've had 11 satellites all with the D showing as correction. My accurracy was also better than the person above at the time (9ft). Regretably I was driving so no laptop so no screenshot.

 

I am in Arizona so also out west.

 

I am so ticked off and baffled myself about this. I have tried 3 GPSr's. My 76cx gets no WAAS and the 60Cx I had for a short time didn't either here in Connecticut. It finds sat 35, shows a hollow bar then it drops off the screen and doesn't exist. BUT........! on my aviation GPS a Garmin GPSMap 396 I get solid was reception on Sat 35, and get the "D's" showing 3D differential navigation down to 6ft!! So its not my area!

 

So I'm reading some that have 76cx 76csx and 60cx and 60csx that are getting WASS with ther D's. Then some other are like me getting nothing...And Garmin is telling us tough, get over it you don't need it...This is BS!!! I very unhappy with Garmin.....I'm almost thinking of ditching the "x" line and get a 76Cs maybe...GRRR!!! :

buzpilot

Garmin owner

Garmin Products I have:

GPSMAP76Cx (handheld, outdoor, geocaching use)

GPSMAP 396 (aviation, handheld)

GNS 430 (aviation, mounted in aircraft cockpit)

GTX 330 (aviation transponder, mounted in aircraft cockpit)

[indygpser]

I also have gotten D's with mine (i normally keep waas off for battery life). But yeah, I've had 11 satellites all with the D showing as correction. My accurracy was also better than the person above at the time (9ft). Regretably I was driving so no laptop so no screenshot.

 

I am in Arizona so also out west.

 

I am so ticked off and baffled myself about this. I have tried 3 GPSr's. My 76cx gets no WAAS and the 60Cx I had for a short time didn't either here in Connecticut. It finds sat 35, shows a hollow bar then it drops off the screen and doesn't exist. BUT........! on my aviation GPS a Garmin GPSMap 396 I get solid was reception on Sat 35, and get the "D's" showing 3D differential navigation down to 6ft!! So its not my area!

 

So I'm reading some that have 76cx 76csx and 60cx and 60csx that are getting WASS with ther D's. Then some other are like me getting nothing...And Garmin is telling us tough, get over it you don't need it...This is BS!!! I very unhappy with Garmin.....I'm almost thinking of ditching the "x" line and get a 76Cs maybe...GRRR!!! :

buzpilot

Garmin owner

Garmin Products I have:

GPSMAP76Cx (handheld, outdoor, geocaching use)

GPSMAP 396 (aviation, handheld)

GNS 430 (aviation, mounted in aircraft cockpit)

GTX 330 (aviation transponder, mounted in aircraft cockpit)

 

I could accept the fact if Garmin said get over it IF and only IF ALL of the x series units were reacting the same; however, this is not the case because some have the d's and others, like myself, do not have the d's. This tells me that perhaps some of the units are defective.

 

I get the d's with my 76CS, but not my new 60csx. We need some answers from Garmin and we need then now!

Edited April 10, 2006 by indygpser

[+drbugs]

Might as well add some more fuel to the fires of confusion.

 

I emailed garmin and got a reply march 9.

 

My question:

Problem:

I've got sattelite 35 visible (left it out for an hour in an area where it

could see sat 35). It constantly blinks, and no WAAS corrections are shown

(no D). I can get sat35 to show routinely now, but am curious as to why no

waas.

 

Garmin reply:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin,

 

I am happy to help you with this. The new Sirf receivers are having some

trouble downloading the data from WAAS. Satellite 35 is also in a transition

period and being moved to a new location. This may be effecting the

reception also. The engineers are working on this issue and hope to have a

solution soon. I would keep an eye out for a new release on our web site

within the next couple of weeks. Your location in MN also inhibits the

reception. Our Northern customers have a more difficult time picking up the

WAAS signal because the satellite is low to the horizon. If you have any

additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via

email or call our customer service number below.

 

When I was running 2.60 on my cx I did have a 1 week period that I got 'D's on my sat bars. On the freeway I routinely get 8 foot epe. When I had 'D's I got about the same listed error, but much more time less than 10 foot. Even in woods this weekend (northern wisconson) I got 15-18 epe.

 

I'm runnint 2.62 now, and have had occasional lockups (all reported to garmin).

[indygpser]

Might as well add some more fuel to the fires of confusion.

 

I emailed garmin and got a reply march 9.

 

My question:

Problem:

I've got sattelite 35 visible (left it out for an hour in an area where it

could see sat 35). It constantly blinks, and no WAAS corrections are shown

(no D). I can get sat35 to show routinely now, but am curious as to why no

waas.

 

Garmin reply:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin,

 

I am happy to help you with this. The new Sirf receivers are having some

trouble downloading the data from WAAS. Satellite 35 is also in a transition

period and being moved to a new location. This may be effecting the

reception also. The engineers are working on this issue and hope to have a

solution soon. I would keep an eye out for a new release on our web site

within the next couple of weeks. Your location in MN also inhibits the

reception. Our Northern customers have a more difficult time picking up the

WAAS signal because the satellite is low to the horizon. If you have any

additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via

email or call our customer service number below.

 

When I was running 2.60 on my cx I did have a 1 week period that I got 'D's on my sat bars. On the freeway I routinely get 8 foot epe. When I had 'D's I got about the same listed error, but much more time less than 10 foot. Even in woods this weekend (northern wisconson) I got 15-18 epe.

 

I'm runnint 2.62 now, and have had occasional lockups (all reported to garmin).

 

Well, take a look at this. Back in January, I emailed Garmin regarding my Nuvi 350 having the blinking #35 and the hollow signal bar for #35. Garmin said that I should be seeing a "d" in the signal bars. Here is there reply:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

Any of our new units that use the Sirf receiver chipset, when using WAAS,the WAAS satellites will never give a solid bar signal denoting that the unit is receiving ephemeris (WAAS) data from them. The Sirf chip will denote the "d" in the signals for the regular satellites showing that differential positioning is taking place though. This is normal and is due to the way that the Sirf chip operates in case you are questioning whether their unit is working correctly.

 

Well, still no d's on my Nuvi or my 60cxs.

Edited April 10, 2006 by indygpser

[+Miragee]

Yesterday I was out with several cachers, two of whom had the new GPS Map60CSx. My Vista C was getting D's in many of the satellite bars and the accuracy with my unit was 8'.

 

One of the CSxs had Ds, the other one didn't.

 

I wish I understood all of this, and now I wish I had taken a picture . . .

[+drbugs]

another interesting observation is that my unit reports sat 35 to the southeast. During the breif period I had 'D's, it showed to the southwest.

 

I think I'm gonna email garmin support again, for grins.

 

Another question I have is for the peopel that have the bluetooth gps unit for pocketpc/palm that uses sirf (I've seen several posts in the past about these). How does WAAS show up on your device?

 

Edit: Add question about palm/pocketpc gps with sirf

Edited April 10, 2006 by drbugs

[+fizzymagic]

another interesting observation is that my unit reports sat 35 to the southeast. During the breif period I had 'D's, it showed to the southwest.

That's because the satellite is in the southwest. It seems very odd to me that the unit, having once seen the satellite in its proper position, should go back to assuming it was in some prior position.

 

This kind of thing is what keeps me using my slightly older Magellan units.

[-Oz-]

I turned Waas on today and held it all the way to and from school (~3.5miles). It switched between 47 and 35 depending on where in town I was. This time though, I took the gps out of the car and took a screenshot, proof:

Had 7ft accuracy before I plugged it in, but meh. Anyway, screenshot taken in Tucson, AZ, USA

 

Serial: 74911108

Version: 2.60

 

Edit to add serial and version.

Edited April 10, 2006 by -Oz-

[+buzpilot]

This is ridiculus....Some X models get WAAS and some don't!!!

 

Lets see if the serial number of the units we have have anything to do with this...I'm at work now, but when I'm get home I'll post my serial## and software version...

 

Garmin won't tell us what really going on guess we'll all have to play GPSr CSI!!

 

Maybe certain units its a hardware thing??

 

buzpilot

[+buzpilot]

WAAS useless Garmin I have:

 

GPSMAP 60Cx 74800307

 

C'mon Garmin lets fix this and get your products to work as advertised.

 

buzpilot

[+whitecrow]

My 60Cx saw #35 w/ d's until it moved west, I'm near Philadelphia. Waas is disabled when new or after a reset, it has to be selected in setup.

[+drbugs]

Ok, I replied to the garmin email I received (posted above) with this:

 

Hi,

Any news on the update that will (hopefully) address WAAS issues mentioned

below?

 

FWIW, I had a week where I received WAAS updates. Sat 35 still shows in

the southeast, but the week I had WAAS working (indicated by 'D's on the

sat signal strenth bars) it was in the southwest. A freinds 60C has a

working WAAS corrections.

 

Also, I've submitted lockup issues (I'm runnint 2.62 beta), and forgot to

mention that I do have WAAS enabled.

 

TIA!

 

and garmin responded:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin,

 

I am happy to help you with this. We all have our fingers crossed that they

will post the update very soon. I appreciate your patience. If you have any

additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via

email or call our customer service number below.

 

Have a nice day!

 

FWIW, I also submitted a ticket about the wandering issue.

[+Geo Knot]

WAAS useless Garmin I have:

 

GPSMAP 60Cx 74800307

 

C'mon Garmin lets fix this and get your products to work as advertised.

 

buzpilot

 

I have a GPSMAP 60 Cx 74800437

MY unit scans over 35 for ~5-30 secs and then drops it. My unit often sees 35, but it has never had a lock and shown that differential corrections were taking place. I live in Galveston, Texas

[+CiscoHiker]

Well Im keeping my fingers crossed as well. Though I have gotten down to 3m accuracy even without seeing any D's.

 

Right now I'm in Veracruz Mexico and my 60CSx often sees sat 35 as a hollow bar and does not pick up any Ds but can't really ask for much more than 3 meters accuracy (if thats true).

[JohnnyBoySF]

I actually got D's on by 60csx last night driving in San Francisco without Sat#35 or #47 with WAAS enbabled.

 

I just bought my GPSr last week so I'm relatively new, but that's what I saw on my screen last night.

[+buzpilot]

Well for an update, I personally called Garmin tech support and spoke to a man that was very cooperative. He put me on hold after talking to a supervisor, and he admitted Garmin says there is a flaw with the SiRF chip and WAAS, and this is appearent in all "x" models... He doesn't know why some are getting the "d's and some arent. He says he gets serveral calls a day about this. He told me that personally he has a GPSMAP 60CSx and he gets d's with WAAS receiption (lucky him). He did tell me that turning on or off the WAAS only gives him a foot more accuracy, so he downplayed to me not having WAAS working is no big deal. I wasn't crazy to hear that. I did tell him I have a handheld aviation Garmin GPS a GPSMAP 396 and putting my 76Cx and 60Cx next to the 396, I get full WAAS receiption on my 396 with sat 35 locked in solid and a epe of 8 feet. With both my 60Cx and 76Cx I get no better than 12 epe and no WAAS lock at all....BS!!

 

He did say that Garmin is working on a software update and I should be patient. I asked him when it will be available, and he put me on hold again. He then picked up the line and said "before October". He said its not a burning issue due to WAAS sats being repositioned and the x models getting great recepition and really don't need waas. I disagreed...WAAS should be working, thats what it says on the box and I want it working....So I am very frustrated...I am really considering returning all these "x" models and go to the older type(Cs etc)...Am I crazy for this?? I do some Geocaching in flat areas where WAAS works and would like the extra accuracy...I know I sound anal about this and it seems like some "x" owners could care less about WAAS working, but its the point...Its on the box, Garmin's website, and advertised as "WAAS capable" so I want it working...

 

Venting_Off

Peace out..

 

buzpilot

 

Garmin products I have:

 

GPSMAP 60Cx

GPSMAP 76Cx

GPSMAP 396 (aviation handheld with XM weather)

GNS 430 (mounted in aircarft cockpit)

GTX 330 (aviation transponder)

[indygpser]

The reason I purchase Garmin is because of great GPSr's and customer support. I think Garmin will do the right thing on this WAAS issue. I would expect nothing less from Garmin. Though I'm not crazy about the "by October" software update, I do realize that in the world of electronics, computers and sofware, problems sometime take a little more time to fix. Garmin will get it right, I am certain. That's why I keep coming back to Garmin.

Edited April 11, 2006 by indygpser

[+gLOBALfINDER]

I wish I shared your confidence. Not sure when my unit's warranty will expire, but I'm not going to let it expire before I take some action on this ... the "you don't need it" explanation has gotten me quite angry. I also haven't dropped the unit into water, so I don't really "need" the water resistance as of today, either, but you better believe I expect it will perform if I ever do.

[SandyGarrity]

Though I'm not crazy about the "by October" software update, I do realize that in the world of electronics, computers and sofware, problems sometime take a little more time to fix. Garmin will get it right, I am certain. That's why I keep coming back to Garmin.

 

Working in IT I'd say that "by October" is a very good fix time. This is what they need to do

 

a) Understand the problem

 

Design a fix

 

c) Write the fix

 

d) Test the fix

 

e) Return to point a until they have it right

 

f) Beta test the fix

 

g) Release the fix

[+Wild Thing 73]

Though I'm not crazy about the "by October" software update, I do realize that in the world of electronics, computers and sofware, problems sometime take a little more time to fix. Garmin will get it right, I am certain. That's why I keep coming back to Garmin.

 

Working in IT I'd say that "by October" is a very good fix time. This is what they need to do

 

a) Understand the problem

 

Design a fix

 

c) Write the fix

 

d) Test the fix

 

e) Return to point a until they have it right

 

f) Beta test the fix

 

g) Release the fix

I was going to upgrade to a GPSMAP 60cx, but I think I will wait until I hear more positive dialogue

[-Oz-]

Just to note: I have a waas lock last night from when I left tucson at 130am till i reached phoenix at 315am. The whole time I had D's and 10ft or below accuracy.

[+benson6404]

My 60csx #74906082 also blinks 35 intermittently. I have never seen D's in my bar graphs. I did however get a +/- 9' accuracy yesterday while driving. I also feel like I was misled. Rep at REI went on and on about benefit of WAAS. I don't think we are wrong in wanting to receive what we paid good money for and were promised.

 

WAAS useless Garmin I have:

 

GPSMAP 60Cx 74800307

 

C'mon Garmin lets fix this and get your products to work as advertised.

 

buzpilot

[+whitecrow]

My 60csx #74906082 also blinks 35 intermittently. I have never seen D's in my bar graphs. I did however get a +/- 9' accuracy yesterday while driving. I also feel like I was misled. Rep at REI went on and on about benefit of WAAS. I don't think we are wrong in wanting to receive what we paid good money for and were promised.

 

9' is about as good as it gets, waas or no waas.

If you live near the east coast, there isn't any waas available.

Edited April 13, 2006 by whitecrow

[moonpup]

I used to get WAAS locks with D's on my 60CSx when I first got it. Since #35 has been on the move, I periodically see it flash and disappear but no locks or D's.

 

I believe WAAS works fine, but since the satellites are in transition it will be intermittent at best. BTW, I'm in Massachusetts.

[+benson6404]

WAAS useless Garmin I have:

 

GPSMAP 60Cx 74800307

 

C'mon Garmin lets fix this and get your products to work as advertised.

 

buzpilot

[+benson6404]

Buz,

 

I don't know if the satellite gods were smiling on me but yesterday I finally saw D's across the board! I live in the Detroit area and yesterday was one of our first clear spring days. Still can't get #35 and the brief tries to get it show it in the SE but I now know that my unit is capable of displaying D's. I also reverted back to V2.60 because I was having lockup problems with V2.62.

 

Garmin sent me a reply that my problem was noted and I should use V2.60 until told otherwise.

 

Thanks

[+Team Cotati]

I used to get WAAS locks with D's on my 60CSx when I first got it. Since #35 has been on the move, I periodically see it flash and disappear but no locks or D's.

 

I believe WAAS works fine, but since the satellites are in transition it will be intermittent at best. BTW, I'm in Massachusetts.

 

I'm curious. When you say that "...it will be intermittent at best." What is it that will be intermittent?

[+sdscotto]

Being a long time Garmin customer, I was ready to just order a 60CSx. As a last minute thought, I checked these forums for the usability for Geocaching.

 

I'm sure glad I did.

 

I have been purchasing and using Garmin products for over 10 years. My first Garmin product was a GPS40 back in 1995. Over the years I've owned, or still own, GPS 40, GPS 12, 12XL (three hardware versions), GPS III, GPSMAP 130, GPSMAP 175, GPSMAP 176C, cfQue, and GPS10.

 

Over the last few years I've seen Garmin support become less and less credible. Different answers from different people, but all seem to give marketing answers rather than real technical support. And talk about excuses -- they should be embarassed at some of their own answers.

 

I've also noticed that technical support promises updates that never come, or don't include fixes that were promised.

 

WAAS is fine for them when it is a selling feature. Now there is a problem with it, they claim you don't need it anyway.

 

It's my understanding that WAAS will improve accuracy in less than optimum conditions. From Garmin's own web page (http://www.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html):

 

"WAAS corrects for GPS signal errors caused by ionospheric disturbances, timing, and satellite orbit errors, and it provides vital integrity information regarding the health of each GPS satellite. "

 

So in a perfect location, with perfect weather and great satellite geometry, you may not get any better position with WAAS. How often is everything perfect, any why would we spend all of that money on putting satellites and infrustucture in place to implement WAAS if a simple $400 consumer GPS is so accurate it "doesn't need it." Moreover, why would Garmin spend the time to put it in their WORKING GPS models if it isn't necessary.

 

I don't know if there is anyone better, and I will probably continue to use Garmin products. It used to be an easy decision to purchase Garmin, now you have to really put some thought and research into the decsion.

[+YuccaPatrol]

Today, My 60csx picked up Satellite #33 and showed D's across the board.

 

My non WAAS corrected accuracy was 11ft, with WAAS it was 10 feet!

 

I think people are getting bent all out of shape over this issue and we should all wait until Sat 35 is moved and operational again.

 

The difference between 11 and 10 ft accuracy is simply not even worth posting about.

[+EraSeek]

Today, My 60csx picked up Satellite #33 and showed D's across the board.

 

My non WAAS corrected accuracy was 11ft, with WAAS it was 10 feet!

 

I think people are getting bent all out of shape over this issue and we should all wait until Sat 35 is moved and operational again.

 

The difference between 11 and 10 ft accuracy is simply not even worth posting about.

 

With ENOS Sat #33 you are not getting the ionospheric corrections in the US, thus the only slight improvment is from clock/position corrections only. With #35 you get it all, or any other US based WAAS sat you get all the corrections.

[+TEAM 360]

Just to note: I have a waas lock last night from when I left tucson at 130am till i reached phoenix at 315am. The whole time I had D's and 10ft or below accuracy.

 

An hour and 45 minutes to get from Tucson to Phoenix?

 

Last time I drove it, I was there in 1 hour and 10 minutes...

 

It's good to see this discussion about the problems with the 60CX. I was thinking about buying one next week, but now....I guess I will have to just wait and see what happens...

Edited April 16, 2006 by TEAM 360

[+TEAM 360]

sure enough, there was an icon on the top that hinted that the unit was "WAAS Enabled".

 

how Garmin could legally sell the unit as a WAAS capable unit

 

"WAAS-capable" and "WAAS-enabled" are two different terms...

 

Garmins website says "WAAS-capable"....