Is This The Real Thing?

[+hukilaulau]

Being from the east coast I was on the alert for snakes when I started caching in Arizona. My heart nearly stopped when I came upon this guy about 8 feet from the last stage of a pretty tough three part multi.

I backed away, then crept up again and took pics from several angles. Then I carefully pulled out the ammo can and signed the log. All this time the snake hadn't moved an inch! Then, I'm ashamed to say, I threw some small rocks in its general direction. (I don't like to bother any animal needlessly.) Still, it didn't even flinch! So my qauestion is, is this someone's idea of a joke? The cache has been there a while and there's no mention of anything like this in the logs. If I go back in a week and it's still in exactly the same position, is it safe to go pick it up? Oh, yeah, and if it is real, is it poisonous?

 

ten minutes later: What the heck? Now I can't figure out how to put a picture in here!!

Edited April 6, 2006 by hukilaulau

[+scavok]

ha ha, I wouldn't be suprised if it was a joke.

 

I know of a cache near me that is hidden in a hollow tree and has a string tied to a fake snake so it kind of lunges at you when you remove the cache.

[+Sagefox]

I think the photo needs to be on a webpage somewhere and then you post a link here. If you don't have a webpage you can post the photo to one of your caches and then use that link. I use the latter method and post the photos to one of my archived caches.

 

Now someone else can tell you the real way to do it.

[+Renegade Knight]

I think the photo needs to be on a webpage somewhere and then you post a link here. If you don't have a webpage you can post the photo to one of your caches and then use that link. I use the latter method and post the photos to one of my archived caches.

 

Now someone else can tell you the real way to do it.

That's the real way.

[+Renegade Knight]

Looks rather fake. The colors cross the scales...However if it's a fake it's a good one.

 

When I came across a rattle snake near a cache it was sleeping and didn't move the entire time we were looking. I don't know what kind of snake this is, but when they don't want to move they don't want to move.

Edited April 6, 2006 by Renegade Knight

[+Intermountain Angler]

I think the photo needs to be on a webpage somewhere and then you post a link here. If you don't have a webpage you can post the photo to one of your caches and then use that link. I use the latter method and post the photos to one of my archived caches.

 

Now someone else can tell you the real way to do it.

 

BINGO you are correct go here http://photobucket.com/ set up your free account transfer pic to account toggle down page select IMG link from choices copy link. when you go to post go to the little tree in the tool bar, select then paste photo into pop up box. photo will appear in your message where you have left the cursor

 

[/img]

Edited April 6, 2006 by Intermountain Angler

[+hukilaulau]

Thanks, RK! I will figure out how to do this!

 

and thanks, Angler for the link!

Edited April 6, 2006 by hukilaulau

[+kusanagi]

Here is a page that shows a rattle snake common to Arizona. The picture looks similar to me though I could be mistaken. As to it moving or not, I don't believe it's uncommon for a snake not to move. I don't know how the heat sensing ability of a pit viper works, however I would think given a choice it would decide you were to big for a meal, and that it would hope that you didn't notice it.

 

Last year while hiking with my family, my wife walked with in inches of a rattle snake. It was a nice warm spring day and the snake did not budge. As I got closer to where she had been she asked if it was alive or dead. I watched it from a distance and it didn't move. As we were leaving a truck came by (the area is used for hang gliders who use trucks to get up that high). I walked back and sure enough the snake had moved. It also rattled it's tail letting me know I should be on my way.

 

In another instance I was on the way to a cache with my kids and saw some other cachers stopped on the trail ahead. As we approached one of them pointed out the snake on the trail. It took lot of pebbles and smaller rocks to get it to move off the trail.

[+Team JSAM]

Totally Fake!

[ATMouse]

I wouldn't mess with it...maybe it's a joke, but I'm not laughing. Snake will become torpid when they are cold. It can feel warm to you and I, but snakes have lots of ground contact and they respond to air temps rather slowly until the ground itself warms.

 

I have managed not to get hurt in the backcountry partly through luck and partly because I respect the power of nature. It's not a theme park out there and we are fragile critters. I don't need a smilie that much, thank you. And if it's there as a joke, well....ha-ha...

 

 

Edited to add:

 

And pick it up...? Why? Snake obsession is dangerous. Your post seems to indicate it is away from the cache. Leave it alone.

Edited April 6, 2006 by ATMouse

[+BadAndy]

Looks pretty realistic to me. Like RK said...if it is fake, it's a dandy.

[+Snoogans]

Looks pretty realistic to me. Like RK said...if it is fake, it's a dandy.

 

Uhhh, if that's a fake (and I don't think it is) it's an awfully gosh darned expensive one. Like, on the order of a movie prop. I'm bettin' it's the real deal.

[Mushtang]

Oh, yeah, and if it is real, is it poisonous?

 

No snake is poisonous.

[+4leafclover]

Oh, yeah, and if it is real, is it poisonous?

 

No snake is poisonous.

 

huh?

 

or is this just a grammar issue ?

[+rogueleader1977]

Oh, yeah, and if it is real, is it poisonous?

 

No snake is poisonous.

 

huh?

 

or is this just a grammar issue ?

 

I am going to take a stab at it and guess that the poster meant 'no snake is poisonous' rather they are venomous. You can't get poisoned by touching a snake like you can poison ivy. You only come to harm if the snake bites you and injects it's venom. However the dictionary defines poison as "A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means" so I would think snake venom would meet that standard. I guess you could still argue that the snake itself was not poisonous just it's venom, but thats a stretch.

 

And my vote is for real, don't touch!

[+Rick618]

It's a vernacular pet peeve. Technically venom is a poison.

 

It is important to note the difference between "venomous" and "poisonous", which are two commonly confused terms with regards to plant and animal life. Venomous refers to animals who inject venom into their prey or as a self-defence mechanism while the organism is still alive. Poisonous, on the other hand, refers to plants or animals that are harmful when consumed or touched.

 

Poison implies ingestion venom implies injection so with that in mind no snake is poisonous, you can eat them all. That's the way we learned it in EMT and Herpetology.

 

Snake looks real enough. I found a corn snake yesterday that I must have walked within inches of and it never moved. It was just loosely curled up on a small pile of limbs up off the ground enjoying the sun. I was very close checking it out snapping pictures and trying not to bump into anything so as not to disturb it. I finally saw the tongue flicker

 

WORD HISTORY The phrase poison potion, besides being alliterative, also consists of doublets, that is, two words that go back ultimately to the same source in another language. The source for both words is Latin pōtiō (stem form pōtiōn-), which meant “the act of drinking, a drink, or a draft, as of a medicine or poison.” Our word potion, which retains the sense “dose,” passed through Old French (pocion) on its way to Middle English (pocion), first recorded in a work composed around 1300. In Old French pocion is a learned borrowing, one that was deliberately taken from Latin in a form corresponding to the Latin form. Our spelling potion is the result of a similar impulse toward Latinization; in the late Renaissance and Enlightenment, numerous English words that had been borrowed from Old French were respelled according to the shape of their Latin ancestors. Pocion thus was changed to potion on the model of Latin pōtiō. But the Latin word had also passed through Vulgar Latin into Old French in the different form poison. This word meant “beverage,” “liquid dose,” and also “poison beverage, poison.” The word poison is first recorded in Middle English in a work composed around 1200.

[Mushtang]

Poison implies ingestion venom implies injection so with that in mind no snake is poisonous, you can eat them all.

 

Yup, that's what I meant.

[+4leafclover]

so it was a grammar type issue. so noted.

 

~looks up snakes on the menu~

[+Semper Questio]

OK, I'm professional herpatologist, but here's my take on it. It looks pretty real to me though I can't identify the color and pattern. There are a few reasons why the snake may not move (assuming it is real and it's alive). A few possibilities..

 

- It's body temp is so low that it is very sluggish.

- It may have just eaten. Many snakes get pretty slow and lazy after a good meal. From the pic, though,it doesn't look like this is the case.

- It may be a defense. If a snake feels threatened and it doesn't think it has anywhere to run, it may try staying perfectly still. If that doesn't work and it still feels threatened, it will strike at whatever it feels threatened by. Not an uncommon defense in any case and especially in the above 2 situations. However, some species, being more aggressive than others, seldom do this.

[+Tim&Bets]

A little off the topic, but this reminds me of the rhyme I heard in the Army used to tell the difference between the venomous coral snake and its non-venomous mimics like the scarlet kingsnake. It went "red on yellow will kill a fellow, red on black venom lack". My personal favorite though, which I use when it comes to dealing with any snake is: "Screw the rhyme, run all the time".

[+Airmapper]

I'll say it looks real. If it was me finding the snake, I'd just get a suitably long stick and see if it was. (I'm not suggesting beating him, just a couple nuges should get it to move a little.)

[+CharlieP]

It has the head shape of a pit viper, but the coloration is something of a mystery ... close to that of a water moccasin ... do those live in Arizona? Not much water out there or they would call it Humizona. I would also vote for the "long stick method" if you were determined to find out if it is genuine. But I would hope that folks would not place such a realistic fake close to a geocache. I can see some kid on a later cache hunt picking up another fake snake: "look Daddy another fake rattlesnake ... ouch ... this one even bites"!

[+AllenFamilyCachers]

 

I'd say it's very real... if you look closely to the left of his head, you'll see a crack where the rocks meet. Do you notice that the snake has managed to fit his body in betweek these cracks? I don't think a rigid fake could fit into the crevice quite the same, unless the whole crevice was built just for this fake snake.

 

Also, please note that an average snake (not a "super snake" ) can strike an average of 1/2 their body length. So if this guy was like 4ft long, he could strike 2 feet past his nose. I say quite real... and stay away from him.

Edited April 6, 2006 by AllenFamilyCachers

[the james gang]

It looks real to me! If it is, its poisonous. A good way to tell (most of the time) is that the back of its head is wider than its neck. Snakes can also strike the entire lenth of thier bodies. That is to say that a five foot snake can strike a person who is five feet away. I would have gotten a looong stick and gave it a friendly nudge. Making mention in the log may save someone else from being bit in the middle of nowhere

[+AllenFamilyCachers]

Snakes can also strike the entire lenth of thier bodies. That is to say that a five foot snake can strike a person who is five feet away.

NOT TRUE! You should check your facts before posting something... this is particularly important when it's life or death. In this case, it's kind of OK that you're wrong because someone believing this would still be OK because they would be farther wawy from the snake instead of closer. However, if you do a search on GOOGLE and type in (snake "striking distance"), you will come up with 80,700 pages of info in support of the 1/2 the body length fact. Also, a snake does NOT have to be coiled to strike. It can strike in any position... even if you're holding it by the tail. So, BE CAREFUL!

[+headybrew]

Whether it is poisonous or not, if it bit you, it would probably hurt, right?

 

I'd gently poke it with my walking stick ( a very looong ski pole that I carry) Be very cautious!

 

It's also a good Idea to take a picture first, (as you did), so that if you do get bitten and high-tail it to the hospital, the doctor can have some chance of identifying it. Knowing what kind of snake it is helps them to decide upon treatment.

[ATMouse]

Dang, what is wrong with LEAVING IT ALONE?

 

Don't poke it, prod it, throw rocks at it...WALK AWAY! It lives there. YOU go away.

 

(People are weird, I swear...)

Edited April 6, 2006 by ATMouse

[+El Diablo]

Dang, what is wrong with LEAVING IT ALONE?

 

Don't poke it, prod it, throw rocks at it...WALK AWAY! It lives there. YOU go away.

 

(People are weird, I swear...)

 

Amen!

 

El Diablo

[+BadAndy]

Rattlesnake Kabobs

 

 

~ 1 rattlesnake, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 bell pepper, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 red onion, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 bottle of A-1 sauce

 

Place rattlesnake sections onto a metal skewer with bell pepper and red onion sections between each section of snake.

 

With a brush, generously apply A-1 sauce to snake sections.

 

Place skewers over an open flame, preferably a campfire.

 

Cook for about 15 - 20 minutes rotating halfway every 3 - 5 minutes.

 

Serve and Enjoy!

[+Airmapper]

With a brush, generously apply A-1 sauce to snake sections.

 

Hey, I'll try anything cooked with A1 on it. Good to the last drop!

[+Colorado Cacher]

Rattlesnake Kabobs

 

 

~ 1 rattlesnake, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 bell pepper, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 red onion, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 bottle of A-1 sauce

 

Place rattlesnake sections onto a metal skewer with bell pepper and red onion sections between each section of snake.

 

With a brush, generously apply A-1 sauce to snake sections.

 

Place skewers over an open flame, preferably a campfire.

 

Cook for about 15 - 20 minutes rotating halfway every 3 - 5 minutes.

 

Serve and Enjoy!

 

I went there once, and then found out there were animal lovers in the forums.

[+Gitonyerhorse]

No professional herpetologist here, just a fan of snakes.

 

That thar snake is a type of rattlesnake common to Arizona, but I forget the name of it at the moment, although it was recently featured on an episode of "Untold Stories of the ER" on TLC if you get that channel.

 

The reason it looks a little fake is that, if you notice the eye that you can see, it looks like it has sort of an opaque blue cover. That is the sign of an imminent skin shed for most snakes. This guy's skin was getting ready to come off, and a lot of snakes go kind of torpid around that time. They won't even move if you poke 'em with a stick, which is really not a good idea, btw. Once that skin starts to crack a little, the snake will start moving around, push its head against rocks and such to start a "peel" going. Then he slithers off, leaving an inside out reminder of his former hide. Even his "eyes" peel. Not actually the eyes, but a layer of cells (the blue cover) that grow over the eyes just before the shed.

 

Snakes are pretty cool, but they need to be respected, even the non-venomous ones. I've been bitten by non-venomous snakes, 'cause I'm too dumb to leave those alone. LOL But, I've rescued snakes from danger that way. Once, I rescued a GORGEOUS California King Snake from certain death as he slithered into my horse's stall. Actually, it was a she snake. And she was an albino! Had beautiful soft gray rings instead of black, and white rings instead of yellow. I wish I could have kept her, but I was living with my parents, then, and my dad is deathly afraid of all snakes, having grown up in the South.

 

Anyway, just some info from a snake fan. I reserve the right to be horrendously mistaken.

Edited April 7, 2006 by Gitonyerhorse

[+hukilaulau]

A lot of great responses! I might go back tomorrow to see if it's still there...

A couple of things:

1) I might have changed the color by trying to sharpen the image in Photoshop.

2) I was really just kidding about picking it up. I agree with the "let it alone'" philosophy.

3) I noticed at the time that the snake fit into the curves of the ledge.

4) I once taught a college English class where I told the students that I wasn't going to correct their papers for spelling or grammar. I wanted them to feel no pressure about trying to share something interesting in their lives. Also, English is a living, changing language. Eventually a word means exactly what a majority of people say it means. I am confident that no one thought I was asking if I would get sick if I ate the snake!

[+aka Monkey]

I once taught a college English class where I told the students that I wasn't going to correct their papers for spelling or grammar.

I think what you mean to say is that you taught a Creative Expression class, not an English class. If you were supposed to be teaching English and told students that spelling and grammar didn't count, I'm truly appalled.

 

I pray to God I never go to a doctor whose teacher didn't grade him on whether he used the right course of treatment, but simply on whether he had a good bedside manner.

Edited April 7, 2006 by aka Monkey

[+sweetolebob]

Dang, what is wrong with LEAVING IT ALONE?

 

Don't poke it, prod it, throw rocks at it...WALK AWAY! It lives there. YOU go away.

 

(People are weird, I swear...)

 

I was thinking the same thing reading these responses, there is not a stick in the world long enough for me to go poking at a snake like that. The snake would see nothing from me but elbows and heels cuz I would be RUNNING not walking away!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[+hukilaulau]

I once taught a college English class where I told the students that I wasn't going to correct their papers for spelling or grammar.

I think what you mean to say is

 

Oh, Noooooo!!! You're going to be even more appalled. It was an Englitch Litrasure class!

This has gotten way off topic so I guess I have to resist the temptation to say anything else until I go visit the snake again!

Just this: There is more than one theory of education. I had a specific purpose for what I was doing, and the method was astonishingly successful for that purpose.

[+clearpath]

is someone trying to scare the McBagel out of me...

nice mental picture ... I guess thats better than a $6 burger at Hardee's

[+El Diablo]

No professional herpetologist here, just a fan of snakes.

 

That thar snake is a type of rattlesnake common to Arizona, but I forget the name of it at the moment, although it was recently featured on an episode of "Untold Stories of the ER" on TLC if you get that channel.

 

 

My best guess would be a Arizona Black Rattle Snake.

 

El Diablo

[+Subterranean]

That's a great picture... care to post the others?

Edited April 7, 2006 by subterranean

[+Team JSAM]

yummm that sounds good........

[+hukilaulau]

That's a great picture... care to post the others?

Soon as I figure out how to do it, I'll try to put up some unedited shots. or I'll just post them to the cache page and you can see them there...

(I didn't go back today, it was too tempting to see some new territory so I went to Wickenburg)

[the james gang]

Snakes can also strike the entire lenth of thier bodies. That is to say that a five foot snake can strike a person who is five feet away.

NOT TRUE! You should check your facts before posting something... this is particularly important when it's life or death. In this case, it's kind of OK that you're wrong because someone believing this would still be OK because they would be farther wawy from the snake instead of closer. However, if you do a search on GOOGLE and type in (snake "striking distance"), you will come up with 80,700 pages of info in support of the 1/2 the body length fact. Also, a snake does NOT have to be coiled to strike. It can strike in any position... even if you're holding it by the tail. So, BE CAREFUL!

That was what I was taught in scouting way back in the 70's. I did not think to check to see if my statement was true. I took it on faith that my scout master was correct. And having more time to think about it, I would likely pass on that "friendly nudge" I mentioned earlier as well.

[+Airmapper]

You say snake and everyone gets all worked up.

 

Guess what!

I poke snakes with sticks.

I've caught snakes.

I've killed venomous snakes, using a garden hoe. (It bit my dog. )

Gasp!! I must be nuts or something. But at least I'm not scared of snakes, respect them yes, but I don't fear them.

[+Adrenalynn]

I don't believe that you have an Arizona Black Rattlesnake (Crotalus viridis cerberus) there. Coloration, head, distinguishing marking, body size - nope...

 

From the coloration, markings, and head, I'd lean more towards a Crotalus mitchellii or Speckled Rattlesnake. And a very pretty one at that. Fair sized, I'd say, without there being much there for scale.

 

An Az. Black will be very dark to black with lighter yellow outlines of dorsal blotches.

 

You find blacks a lot up Flagstaff/Kingman/Williams way where the forest floor is darker. They're a high-altitude snake.

 

Arizona has 17 different rattlesnakes native, of the 84 species/subspecies around the world.

 

Regardless, I second or third or some-such the "leave the poor thing alone".

 

The vast majority of bites in Arizona occur when people are f'ing with provoking snakes. And it's almost assured that those bites will be granted to males between the ages of 20 and 50 and that alcohol was a seriously contributing factor...

 

[edited to add: One of the most amusing things I ever saw in the boonies was two guys harassing a Diamond Back. Throwing stuff and later, poking at him with a stick. The snake struck at the stick, the guy was startled and stepped backwards - about two inches from the smaller male that he hadn't seen. Lucky his buddy was with him. His leg would have fallen off from necrosis by the time I had stopped laughing and managed to render assistance had it just been me in the vicinity. . .]

Edited April 8, 2006 by Adrenalynn

[+CharlieP]

Dang, what is wrong with LEAVING IT ALONE?

Don't poke it, prod it, throw rocks at it...WALK AWAY! It lives there. YOU go away.

(People are weird, I swear...)

 

What is wrong with LEAVING IT ALONE? For one thing, it is 8 feet from a geocache, which means that (if it is real) it poses a hazard to geocachers who follow hukilaulau. I would feel pretty badly if a geocacher was bitten by this snake the day after I "WALK AWAY". I would at least want to verify if it was real and alive so I could post a warning.

 

I came across a 3 foot copperhead on a busy walking trail in a Boy Scout camp years ago and killed it with a stick. Some older scouts told me this was the wrong thing to do ... that the snake was a necessary part of the balance or nature ... etc. Well, from my perspective this snake should have balanced nature in a place where there were NOT a few hundred boys walking around. If I had come across the snake in a less populated place, I would have enjoyed watching it, and then gone on my way.

[+dkwolf]

A little off the topic, but this reminds me of the rhyme I heard in the Army used to tell the difference between the venomous coral snake and its non-venomous mimics like the scarlet kingsnake. It went "red on yellow will kill a fellow, red on black venom lack". My personal favorite though, which I use when it comes to dealing with any snake is: "Screw the rhyme, run all the time".

 

AMEN!! If I were on that cache hunt with you, upon seeing said snake, immediately turn and look back towards the truck. You will see an Eric-shaped hole through anything and everything between me and the truck, and Eric himself standing in the bed of said truck.

 

I hate snakes. The can move, they don't have legs. That ain't right. It's in the Bible.

[+Team Snoopy]

So who says the snake wasn't there first? Why shoudl the snke move his home and not the cache be moved? Or a warning saying snakes have been seen nearby? Leave the snake alone. But when caching, people should be aware snakes are possible to be anywhere.

[Clan Riffster]

Rattlesnake Kabobs

 

~ 1 rattlesnake, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 bell pepper, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 red onion, cut into 5 - 8 sections

~ 1 bottle of A-1 sauce

 

Place rattlesnake sections onto a metal skewer with bell pepper and red onion sections between each section of snake.

I've found the best way to cook snake kabobs is to use a seperate skewer for each major ingredient. 1 for the snake chunks, one for the bell peppers, one for the onions....and don't forget the mushrooms! Any time I do kabobs, the ingredients always seem to cook at different rates, and if mixed together on a skewer over the fire, you'd have the mushrooms and onions overcooked, and the peppers undercooked, if the meat was done right.

 

Just $0.02 from the ol' fat guy's grill.

[+Fergus]

Looks rather fake. The colors cross the scales...However if it's a fake it's a good one.

 

When I came across a rattle snake near a cache it was sleeping and didn't move the entire time we were looking. I don't know what kind of snake this is, but when they don't want to move they don't want to move.

 

At one time I helped to run the snake program for a local nature center. This snake looks to me like a Arizona black rattlesnake. I have never seen one of these snakes in person before, but I have seen other rattlesnakes. I have seen rattlesnakes seek sun or shade in the same place daily. Rattlesnakes will often stay motionless for long periods of time to avoid being seen. Here are some pictures I found of the Arizona black rattlesnake.

 

[ATMouse]

Dang, what is wrong with LEAVING IT ALONE?

Don't poke it, prod it, throw rocks at it...WALK AWAY! It lives there. YOU go away.

(People are weird, I swear...)

 

What is wrong with LEAVING IT ALONE? For one thing, it is 8 feet from a geocache, which means that (if it is real) it poses a hazard to geocachers who follow hukilaulau. I would feel pretty badly if a geocacher was bitten by this snake the day after I "WALK AWAY". I would at least want to verify if it was real and alive so I could post a warning.

 

 

Then post it. I stand by what I said.