Its All About Numbers, But ... What Does Athln Mean?

[+LifeOnEdge!]

Before I pose the question, I want to be clear that I am NOT criticizing this act, but would like to know how others see this.

 

In my part of the country (look this up for yourself please) there are a growing number of cachers who go out with a buddy to cache. When caching turns to cache hiding, these buddies ride along to save gas and to also hide their own caches. In short, two guys go out and hide caches, each publishing their own caches.

 

Those caches are approved and published and the race begins. Immediately following a first find post, the "buddy" logs his "find" and states that he was "ATHLN." Basically, this means that they were with the hider when the cache was hidden AND are posting a find for their effort.

 

Not only is there pride for finding a cache before any others, there is a similar pride for being Second-to-Find. Also, it seems to be appropriate to hesitate some with posting a first find log, so that others are equally motivated as you were to go out and find the cache, hopefully to be first. This ATHLN activity blows both of these concepts out of the water. Third-to-find, when you were really the second one to find the cache is really deflating. Usually, the cache owner of a ATHLN team wants you to post a find as soon as possible, so thier buddy can slip in their find log.

 

Tonight, I found a cache that had been published for 24 hours. I did not expect to be the first to find. When I open the log I see three posts. Two dated the day the cache was hidden (three days before today.) The third log was the cache owner's ATHLN buddy. I didn't know if I should claim a FTF, a Fourth-to-Find (which I would not have done), or what? I honestly don't know who was there, when, or how they found the cache. Now we are reduced to ALL these questions. I would have been so mad if I had rushed out there last night to get a FTF, only to see logs that were two days old!

 

How do *you* feel about this? Is this new to you? Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Are *you* a ATHLN buddy with anyone?

 

Personally, I feel this is completely in Bad Form. Why even count your finds and celebrate at times if you are playing like this? Should I even care?

 

Please let me know your thoughts.

 

LifeOnEdge!

Somewhere in ... well ... the US

[+Team JSAM]

I think far to many people are way into their numbers its kewl and all but for us its really about just the caching not the number by our name. I agree with you and think that this is in bad form it also robs the rightful FTF of the first log.

[bogleman]

The only folks I compete with are ME, MYSELF and I. I've had a few first finds but really "so what", you were the first to violate the cache, good for you. I don't give a donkeys behind about your numbers and whatever you or anyone else does with the caches and the race to be the first one to sign in.

 

I sign my name in the log book and tell my story on the on-line log so everyone can enjoy.

 

The numbers game is a self made part of geocaching - everything always turns into a competiition.

 

At least when I compete with myself the challenge is pretty easy, we do have a good time when we compete with each other and it provides good company on those long hikes.

[+budd-rdc]

Sounds like (A)t (T)he (H)ide (L)eft (N)othing?

 

This practice happens occasionally in my area, usually in remote places. Co-hiders take the effort to write both in the paper and online logs that they were NOT FTFs and were physically there when the cache was hidden. This means that the "real" FTF and STF can proclaim themselves without confusion. No effect on FTF prizes and initial swag either. Editing the cache descriptions to mention the names of the co-hiders also help.

 

Personally, I have no problems with how it's done in my area, since there's full disclosure.

[+briansnat]

I don't see the point of logging finds for caches you helped hide. Heck, you know where it is. Almost like logging your own hides. Even the "turning your back while he hides it" misses the whole point. You aren't experiencing the hunt the way everyone else is.

 

But hey, whatever floats yer boat. I guess it doesn't hurt anybody (unlike lying about finds).

[+Renegade Knight]

There are two ways to get "credit" for a cache. List it, or Find it. Since you can't share a hide (and both profiles come up when you click the hiders name and it shows up on both cachers hide stats) the only solution remaining is to find it.

 

The system isn't perfect in not allowing a joint hide, and the solution isn't ideal either. However it's what we have to work with.

[+tomturtle]

I don't usually even bother with trying for the FTF, unless a new cache happens to be close by. Once in a while, I will happen to get one when I'm not even trying because the cache ended up on my list to hunt, not because it was new, but because I was hunting caches in that area. I always claim them on my profile, simply because thats about all you can do with them. I would say go ahead and claim the FTF on these caches if you find you are the first to find it after it has been published. Would anyone challenge you on it? Would it matter to anyone else anyway? It's really just a matter of personal preference as to how you account for things like that.

[+DocDiTTo]

If I take someone out to hide a cache with me, I do the writeup as though both of us did the hide. That way they get a little recognition, but they don't count it as a find. In some parts of the country people with the hider consider themselves "beta testers" and sign the bottom of the first page of the log as a beta tester, so they aren't mistaken for the FTF. I've pretty much given up on the FTF game though. If I get one fine, if not that's fine too. Ever since Jeremy stopped sending those sterling silver FTF trophies out to the first finders of every new cache, the incentive just hasn't been there.

[+NotThePainter]

Your frustrastion stems from the fact that others are playing the game with different rules then you are. There is nothing you can do to change others behaviors.

 

Personally, I log FTFP, not FTF, which is First to Find Published. By my rules any logs before publication don't count.

 

Just as you can change how others behave, others can't change how you behave. Some think that what I do is silly. That's fine with me. I'm comfortable with what I do and I ignore what others do.

 

Paul

[AZcachemeister]

As has been said, does it really matter?

I do think it's bad form, and would never do such, or allow it on my cache.

When I have company while hiding a cache, I include their team(s) in the 'Hidden By' textbox. Sometimes they have included their thoughts in the logbook when the cache is hidden, but it is clearly stated NOT to be a found log. We have agreed that to log a find, they must go back after it has been found, or after 6 months have gone by, whichever comes first! So far they haven't been back.

[+Kit Fox]

Sounds like (A)t (T)he (H)ide (L)eft (N)othing?

 

This practice happens occasionally in my area, usually in remote places. Co-hiders take the effort to write both in the paper and online logs that they were NOT FTFs and were physically there when the cache was hidden. This means that the "real" FTF and STF can proclaim themselves without confusion. No effect on FTF prizes and initial swag either. Editing the cache descriptions to mention the names of the co-hiders also help.

 

Personally, I have no problems with how it's done in my area, since there's full disclosure.

 

Could it be (A)ccompanied (T)he (H)ider (L)eft (N)othing.

 

I have seen it done here in Southern California, and they refer to it as "Beta Testing." The caches where I was FTF, and had beta testers, had a clear notes specifying what occured.

[+DrHogg]

(A)ssisted (T)he (H)ider, (L)ogging (N)ow.

 

Straight from the horse's mouth.

[+karrooite]

Before I pose the question, I want to be clear that I am NOT criticizing this act

 

[...]

 

I feel this is completely in Bad Form.

Uh-huh.

 

Should I even care?

No. Why would you get all worked up about other people playing games?

[dunderhead]

As soon as one hole is plugged another appears, this thread will surely degenerate into another long running "To Count or Not To Count" and the variations thereof.

[+kentuckygirls]

Ever since Jeremy stopped sending those sterling silver FTF trophies out to the first finders of every new cache, the incentive just hasn't been there.

 

I didn't know he stopped sending them!! I guess that explains the long wait on mine! That's not really fair. I think some of our FTF's are grandfathered and we should get the trophy. I will await an official response!