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Let's Go Geocaching Event


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As mentioned briefly in an earlier thread GPS Training has reached an agreement with Groundspeak to run a fully commercial "event" in the Lake District in May. I have created an Event Cache page here.

 

Obviously this differs from normal events in that an admission fee is payable but I would stress that everything has been done with the full knowledge and agreement of Groundspeak. In the past the US has had a number of commercial "partnerships" with commercial organisations (Jeep comes to mind) so this is a first for the UK.

 

Maybe I'll see some of you there ;) !!

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I'm not sure I like that way this is going.

 

£29pppd may not sound a lot, but that's £232 for a family of four like mine.

 

"Navigation fun for everyone"....

 

.... everyone who has a couple of hundred quid to spend.

 

[Edit to anticipate responses]

 

I KNOW no-one is compelling us to go, and we're quite welcome not to go. What worries me is that this will become the norm, and cache events in the future will be limited to those with the spare cash. Even if this isn't the case, the events will become segregated into a 'them and us' culture for paid and free events. OK, this is not ununual in society, but it IS in geocaching. One of the great things about geocaching events is the variety of people there from all walks of life. I'd hate to see that go away.

Edited by rutson
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I'm not sure I like that way this is going.

 

£29pppd may not sound a lot, but that's £232 for a family of four like mine.

 

"Navigation fun for everyone"....

 

.... everyone who has a couple of hundred quid to spend.

 

[Edit to anticipate responses]

 

I KNOW no-one is compelling us to go, and we're quite welcome not to go. What worries me is that this will become the norm, and cache events in the future will be limited to those with the spare cash. Even if this isn't the case, the events will become segregated into a 'them and us' culture for paid and free events. OK, this is not ununual in society, but it IS in geocaching. One of the great things about geocaching events is the variety of people there from all walks of life. I'd hate to see that go away.

 

I Totaly agree with Ruston, I am on long term ill from work and I got a one off payment for somthing. So thats how I got my GPS, but I could NOT pay over £200 every time I want to take my family out caching.

 

I also think this is going to start a whole lot more events that charge.

 

One of the reasons I like Geocaching is that once you have ur GPS it's free. A nice day out with the kids, getting some fresh air and exercise.

 

I hope this is not the way it's going to go ;)

 

John

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This is a commercial training weekend. The organising company have paid a fee to get it publicised and the "event" is one way of publicising it.

 

Normal events will continue to be free or will only charge a nominal amount to cover costs.

 

It is by forming partnerships such as this that Groundspeak, a commercial organisation themselves, can continue to grow. You will see in the guidelines that such things are permitted at Groundspeak's discretion. I would suggest that it is no more "double standards" than the Jeep promotions were.

 

Geocaching is and will continue to be "free" (once you have a GPSr), but associated activites can be paid for if you wish. Certainly nobody is suggesting that you will have to pay £200 every time you go out on a cache hunt. This is an "extra" that you can pay for if you want to or you can choose not to if you don't want to go. I see it in a similar light to Groundspeak selling Travel Bugs, Geocoins, Cache stickers etc. They are there if you want to pay for them but you are not forced to.

 

This sort of thing will ALWAYS remain the exception while the vast majority of events will remain exactly as you have become used to.

 

If I thought for one moment this would lead us down a "slippery slope" do you honestly believe I would have been actively supporting it? No, I think that occasional ventures such as this are a useful adjunct to geocaching in the UK and serve a purpose in the same way that you can pay to go on a guided walk.

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ok so let me try to get this ..........................

 

we moan about the fact that ammericans can have commercial cache meets

and we cant

 

we are then given a commercial cache meet

 

then we moan about that

 

ohh yehh thats clear ;)

 

one thing that is cleare is

 

if you want to go then go

 

if you dont want to go dont go

 

i cant afford it so i will cache some ware else

 

not rocket science is it

Edited by Tupperware Hunters
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From the guildlines:

 

Event Caches

 

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers. After the event has passed, the event cache should be archived by the organizer within four weeks. While a music concert, a garage sale, a ham radio field day or town’s fireworks display might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers. In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.

 

For geocaching events that involve several components, such as a day-long group cache hunt that also involves a seminar and dinner, only a single event cache covering all components should be submitted.

 

<snip> time constraintes </snip>

 

I think the significant part here is : "open to all geocachers", I do not feel that the posted event is available to all geocachers.

 

Also "organized by geocachers", it seems to me this is organised by a commmerical organaisation, not by geocachers.

 

And the last part "an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches." am I missing something here?

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I have to say, I'm with Lacto on this. Our moderators have always been fair minded and maintain high standards, and I very much doubt if this event was arranged and listed entirely for money, which I htink is a tad harsh on Lacto!

 

I will be the first to admit that its not my cup of tea, mainly cos its miles away, and I don't feel that I need to learn about Geocaching on a course! However, it strikes me that this event is partly designed to draw more people into our sport/hobby/obsession which is generally a good thing (with the usual provisos! :tired: )

 

Finally, this commercial event is going to help make money for Groundspeak (a commercial enterprise, after all) so maybe they can upgrade the servers with it! :huh: It may be rather harsh that charity events can't be listed (and maybe we can press for a rule change there...) but I don't see it as double standards.

 

Just my 10p worth (inflation, dontcha know ;) )

 

Dave

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As I have made very clear in a personal email to Lacto, my posts here are not a critique of him in any way whatsover.

 

However, this event is well within 'my patch' and had it not cost over £200 I would have no doubt been attending.

 

And I really wasn't going to start on the whole charity thing.... but yes, that does stink.

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The bit that caught my eye was:

 

"Over 20 Geotrails and 50 real caches to locate in fabulous walking country"

 

I wonder if these are existing caches or have they been created just for the event? I'd hate to think that any of my caches (of which 9 are within the nearest 50) were used to make money... ;)

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The bit that caught my eye was:

 

"Over 20 Geotrails and 50 real caches to locate in fabulous walking country"

 

I wonder if these are existing caches or have they been created just for the event? I'd hate to think that any of my caches were used to make money... :tired:

 

Rest assured that these will be put out specially for the weekend by the company concerned. They will not be listed on Geocaching.com (indeed some of them are "gulp!" Virtual caches ;):huh: )

 

I shall be personally taking groups out to hunt for some caches and I can give you my personal guarantee that none of your caches, nor any other existing caches listed on Geocaching.com will be used in this commercial venture. Any that we hunt as part of the course will be placed especially for the weekend. I can also assure you that they will most definitely have to conform to the usual guidelines ;)

 

Oh! and to be absolutely open about this, I shall be getting paid for my time giving presentations and demonstrations during the weekend. I will not/have not, been paid a penny for listing the event, all money has gone to Groundspeak to help support the business. If anyone has any comments/questions about my involvement I would prefer if you could contact me directly by e-mail or PM.

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I remember our first event Winchesterwe attended after only a couple weeks geocaching. We made a point of attending mainly to find out what it was all about. We did not post a will attend note and just showed up on the day where we were allowed to camp out with the other cachers. We had a brilliant time and met plenty of helpful cachers many of whom we still run across. Looking at both event descriptions there are quite a few similiarities with one main exception and that being the Winchester event was free even with the camping. I do not know if we would of attended had we had to pay the 100 plus pounds for our family or not or if it would of put us off caching in the future but on the day we couldn't of asked for a better introduction to geocaching. ;)

But then again one of the things I like about geocaching is the variety and people are free to choose if they attend or not.

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(Sneaks up to throw petrol on the fire and then beats a hasty retreat! ;) )

 

How do people think Geocaching pays for the web site etc etc?

 

I'm all for it. In any other hobby, you'd pay much (much, much!) more for the assistance of an expert on an introductory w/end. (Have a look at anything to do with astronomy! ;) )

 

Good luck, shame I wont be able to attend. :tired:

 

(and please don't shout at me! :huh: )

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After reading all this lot over and over we now fully understand having read PC Lacto's last post (just a few above here).

 

Basically, some outfit is going to charge people an amazing £30+ a go to do some "imitation" caches and Groundspeak is getting a bung.

 

All dead easy really except - why the hell did they have to involve REAL geocaching???

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That's just it. Before if you wanted an introduction to this sport, you posted on here and 9/10 someone would help you. Or, you get along to an event and someone will take you out and help you. I've done it myself on a few occasions, even going well out of my way, more than once.

 

Once again, nothing personal, to anyone. But this just feels 'wrong'.

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Not wishing to fan the flames any further, but.......

Would you really want to spend money attending an event where none of the caches are officially listed on GC.com, and therefore won't show up in your profile?

 

I'm sure some won't mind and will happily attend, but I suspect quite a large number of regular event attendees will avoid.

 

I wish the organisers luck. Despite the negative comments this has drawn, if it introduces more people to our hobby, via an educated start, it can only be a good thing.

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I wish the organisers luck. Despite the negative comments this has drawn, if it introduces more people to our hobby, via an educated start, it can only be a good thing.

 

Imagine when those people introduced to Geocaching through this event see their first 'classic' event listed. "Free??? Wow, how fantastic, a FREE event and there are going to be all these friendly helpful people there too!"

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I have absolutely no problems with this sort of "day out"; however the correct place for them is *not* with other cache events, it's on the left hand side of the caching pages with all the other commercial adverts (Books, DVDs etc).

 

Ian

 

That was certainly considered but "adverts" there are targetted at the whole goecaching community worldwide. Like it or not, but the UK community (who are the only ones realistically likely to attend) are a small minority.

 

Not wishing to fan the flames any further, but.......

Would you really want to spend money attending an event where none of the caches are officially listed on GC.com, and therefore won't show up in your profile?

.............

 

Actually some will be listed so will appear in your stats. Mind you, we're not "numbers people" so the question is academic :):):):) !!!!

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:) i think its not a bad idea quite good really :) if you dont know how to use a gps all i really want to know is when the weekend is over will you be leaving the caches out which were set for the course so i can go and bag them free of charge :)

 

Some of them, yes.

B) thats bonza and you can chuck another prawn on the barbie :)

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If it helps keep geocaching.com going then I'm all for it, at the end of the day geocaching,com has to run a business the best it can while avoiding alienating members - paying and non paying alike.

 

I notice that the same event will be held again at the end of September.

 

If you still fancy learning geocaching/gps then keep an eye out for the 'Head for the Hills' festival which took place in Ambleside last year, and may happen again this year.

 

Prices last year were £15 per day (£30 for 3days) or family tickets £38 (£76 for 3days)

 

Head For The Hills

 

They had the following of interest to geocachers :-

 

Programme of Talks

 

Some of the leading experts in navigation will be bringing you a series of free talks to help you take your next step in practical navigation. These short 20 minute presentations will be supplemented by follow-up hands-on navigation demonstrations.

 

Session 1: Entry Level Mapping

a. Understanding Map Symbols

b. How to Orient a Map

c. Understanding a Grid Reference

 

Session 2: Map and Compass - Peter Hawkins

a. How To Take and Walk on a Bearing

 

Session 3: Introduction to Digital Mapping - Memory Map

 

Session 4: Getting the best from your GPS

a. How does GPS work?

b. Correct Set-up

c. Which GPS should I get"

d. Using your GPS in bad weather

e. How GPS Training can help you get the best from your GPS

 

Session 5: Introduction to Geocaching

a. What is Geocaching?

b. How to Go Geocaching

c. All about Geotrailing

d. Find HFTH Geocaching/Geotrailing festival challenges

 

Session 6: The Future of Mapping

a. Walk the OS Soundscape!

b. Learn about Pointing!

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<snip>we moan about the fact that ammericans can have commercial cache meets

and we cant</snip>

I've searched deep into my memory but can't recall ever holding a placard with the legend 'We Want Commercial Caches" on it, and chanting "...When do we want them? NOW!" Or seeing anyone demand anything similar. Charity is not the same as Commerce. Unless you're a public school, but that's another story.

 

I'm wondering what would happen if someone tried to hold a free event, promoting the same sort of activities with free GPS training, over the same weekend, 0.1m away... Would our PTB be at liberty to ok it? If not, why not? This is not a suggestion, it's what's called a Thought Experiment. :)

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[...<snip>.....

 

I'm wondering what would happen if someone tried to hold a free event, promoting the same sort of activities with free GPS training, over the same weekend, 0.1m away... Would our PTB be at liberty to ok it? If not, why not? This is not a suggestion, it's what's called a Thought Experiment. :)

 

All things being equal - Yes.

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i was lucky i had someone to show me the ropes (even though i am still usless at it) but after upgrading from etrex to garmin 60 i had it all set up wrong even with the use of the distruction opps i mean instruction book so would have been only to happy to pay to go on a course.

As for the use of caches well as long as they are treated the way caches should be i have no objections to mine being used at all.

 

I think for someone who wants to know about geocaching and gps its a good idea just my 10p worth :)

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Personally I don't see the problem.

 

Everyone always says how it's each to their own, and that everyone plays it differently (keeping coins etc), and that they like the fact that no one tells them what they can and can't do, even if some disagree.

 

If people want to pay, great, good luck to them, I hope they learn lots and lots, and meet lots of nice people. Personally I've not felt the need to learn any more than I can pick up on this forum and learn outside with GPS in hand.

 

I don't see this as any sort of slippery slope, just another way to play.

 

Enjoy

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I don't see a problem with it myself. I would imagine it's more likely to attract newbies rather than old lags, so in the end will bring people into the fold. It also gives newbies the chance to try out some GPSrs so they will be able to make an informed choice about buying one afterwards.

As for the cost, looking at the GPSTraining website they charge between £29 and £59 for their regular 1 day courses, so this event seems relatively good value, considering there are opportunities to win a coupls of GPSrs and BEER :).

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if it wasnt for the fact im skint (from trying to maintain my geocoin habit :) ) and its so far away id consider it. its like paying for premium membership, i cant say i use the extra facilities so its not really worth my while paying it but at least im able to try and support the site and if i cant afford it next year i have the choice not to do it.

 

but i gather from some of the threads above a similar thing where the money raised would have gone to charity wasnt ok'd, i think if they do this they should reconsider their position, for the goodwill if nothing else.

Edited by freespirit1402
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I'm sorry.

 

I read many an excuse for crap like this in threads like "someone has to pay for hosting of the site", but it doesn't wash.

 

FFS, www.geocaching.com is a massive site with SO many members. It doesn't take more than half a brain to know a site such as this could be funded by simple affliate links, rather than rubbish like this.

 

And having had some first hand knowledge of the whoo-ha caused by a charity cache..... :)

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cant see any problem with it myself - if it raises a few quid for Groundspeak, then surely this is good for all of us.

i reckon we are all lucky that the website functions without us having to pay subs towards all the time and effort that goes into it - and we are lucky to have mods like lacto approve our caches - all free of charge.

 

i wont be going to the event as it's too far away, but how could anyone critisice an event that could maybe lead to new cachers - possibly providing us with some wonderful new caches?

you never know! ?!

 

i hope it's a success and spreads the addiction!

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cant see any problem with it myself - if it raises a few quid for Groundspeak, then surely this is good for all of us.

Weeeell. If the money it raises gets put back into Geocaching.com, perhaps to improve the service/s, then it is good for all of us. If it goes towards a new Merc for Jeremy, I'm less impressed.

 

i reckon we are all lucky that the website functions without us having to pay subs towards all the time and effort that goes into it - and we are lucky to have mods like lacto approve our caches - all free of charge.

And Groundspeak is lucky it 'controls' a sport where the players place and stock the caches for others to find for free, and the approvers approve them for free, and they're maintained for free... I could go on.

 

i wont be going to the event as it's too far away, but how could anyone critisice an event that could maybe lead to new cachers - possibly providing us with some wonderful new caches?

you never know! ?!

I won't either, but even if it was on my doorstep and I had the money to attend, I wouldn't. It's a mixture of lack of appeal (not looked in a while - does the page say the caches you find may not be 'genuine' and 'loggable on gc.com' caches?) and just a hint of principle.

 

i hope it's a success and spreads the addiction!

So do I! But part of me also say's "Woa there. Slippery slope. Thin end of the wedge", and other such helpful phrases. I hope it's only the addiction it spreads, and not the idea of making money out of caching. :)

 

Edited for spelling

Edited by Simply Paul
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cant see any problem with it myself - if it raises a few quid for Groundspeak, then surely this is good for all of us.

Weeeell. If the money it raises gets put back into Geocaching.com, perhaps to improve the service/s, then it is good for all of us. If it goes towards a new Merc for Jeremy, I'm less impressed.

 

Put back into Geocaching.com :) - what, like buying a new, faster, server or some more bandwidth B) . I'd dread going out and finding 50 caches over a weekend, only to end up taking a week to log them on the current, dreadfully, slow server that's in use at the moment :) . Seems to take for ever some nights, especially if logging trackables. :)B)

 

As for a "training event", at that price, no thanks, I learnt from a friend and I'm sure most newbies will do the same - better to spend the money on a new / better GPSr and/or mapping software. :D:)

 

I don't remember (wasn't around maybe) anything about charity events - but, if we can't organise a charity do :D , then why should this be allowed to go ahead.

Edited by CrazyL200
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