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My Cache Is Arrested


lexidh

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My newest cache was "arrested" by the police today, because some strange lady working in an office building close by has nothing else to do but stare on an old shed and a couple of geocachers in the parking lot behind a hospital. She thought the box was so scary that she called the police. My oh my...

 

I tried to get it back from the police station close by, but it turned out to be another one even closer, a smaller police station where the cache is. I have to wait until monday to go get it then.

 

Is it a first, or something that happends from time to time?

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It's a catch 22.

We are told

"We have real threats please report suspicios things"

All kinds of things are reported. Food, Toys, Woopie Cusions and Caches.

The police (especially sheriff's) don't like false alarms

Then start charging the people who "caused" the false alarm with bogus crimes.

 

It happens. One of my caches was reported as a drug stash. I called the sheriff's office and they said "we figured out it was geocaching, it wasn't a drug stash and that's all we were interesed in, no problem".

 

Ditto on a Night Stalker cache.

 

Others get phoned in and the bomb squad comes out and blows it up. It looks like in other cases still they pick it up and impound it.

 

One of the irony's is that we as cache owners have no way to even guess what kind of responce a cache will get if it's reported. Why are some blown up, some checked or drugs, and some confiscated?

 

One key thing is that the greater the inconvenince to the general public the more pressure there is to punish someone. While we can't predict the responce we can guess at the worst case responce. Under an interstate bridge during rush hour...That could shut down traffic for hours and piss off 50,000 people. Under a pedestrian bridge in a park. 20 people and they can walk around the park...

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Don't feel too bad, it happens to many of us.

 

I lost a cache once in another strange way. It was an underwater cache attached to a cinder block and buoy in about 10 ft of water in the Loxahatchee River in Jupiter, FL. A week after placing the cache I went out to check it and noticed that (1) it was missing, and (2) an identical looking yellow Pelican box was sitting on the end of a nearby dock in front of a multi-million dollar home with about a million dollar fishing boat. My first thought was to grab the box...but then I got wondering about things like 'did it get caught in their propeller?" I chickened out and lost the cache! B)

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Has anyone attempted notifying the police of cache locations so they don't waste their time and our money blowing up a box full of McToys, Whoopee cushions, and slinkys?

 

Or is this something that isn't done because the police dept. wouldn't approve without all sorts of permission forms, etc. Or would they not have a central location to keep all the info organized (aside from Geocaching.com) even if they did have it? Are most police depts. aware of Geocaching?

 

Just wondering...

 

bblake

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Only problem with that thinking is that someone creating a real bomb could paint the exact same thing on their bomb. The police can't assume its safe. That's why you have to be wise about where you place. Next to a hospital/firestation or other municipal building is probably not good.

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Only problem with that thinking is that someone creating a real bomb could paint the exact same thing on their bomb. The police can't assume its safe. That's why you have to be wise about where you place. Next to a hospital/firestation or other municipal building is probably not good.

 

Exactly. Placment is the key. While some say clear containers won't get blown up, the evidence doesn't seem to show thats the case.

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Next to a hospital/firestation or other municipal building is probably not good.

One of my caches is about 2' outside of a city lot where our local cops park their private and duty cars. The cache is a small utility box with a geocaching.com decal and four screws securing the lid. It has aroused a little suspicion, but nothing serious. All of the cops now know what it is, and I have heard from a couple of them that they welcome the activity around their cars because it keeps riff-raff from hanging out back there.

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Has anyone attempted notifying the police of cache locations so they don't waste their time and our money blowing up a box full of McToys, Whoopee cushions, and slinkys?

I agree that it would be good if they were aware of the game, but there are way too many caches out there for them to wrap their heads around. They are generally going to destroy first and ask questions later.

Or is this something that isn't done because the police dept. wouldn't approve without all sorts of permission forms, etc. Or would they not have a central location to keep all the info organized (aside from Geocaching.com) even if they did have it? Are most police depts. aware of Geocaching?

Unless you are considering hiding a cache at the police station, they are the wrong people to ask for permission.

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Has anyone attempted notifying the police of cache locations so they don't waste their time and our money blowing up a box full of McToys, Whoopee cushions, and slinkys?

 

Or is this something that isn't done because the police dept. wouldn't approve without all sorts of permission forms, etc. Or would they not have a central location to keep all the info organized (aside from Geocaching.com) even if they did have it? Are most police depts. aware of Geocaching?

 

Just wondering...

 

bblake

Actually, the police can put the coordinates in right here on the website to see if any caches are supposed to be there. Most won't, however, but the capability exists.

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Congratulations. You made the list.

 

(Why do I have this dread fear that I'm going to catch a lot of crap for this?) :mad:

 

OK, it's sad to see all those strikle-throughs, but that is a great list. And while amusing in a way, it's also educational seeing as you have the story behind them there too. Maybe that should become standard reading :mad:

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I just put a note on the outside of my caches that says "Do not mind the ticking - this is not a bomb" so no one gets upset that they can hear my signature travel alarm clocks I leave in all the caches. This way I know my caches are safe from a bomb squad call.

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Only problem with that thinking is that someone creating a real bomb could paint the exact same thing on their bomb. The police can't assume its safe. That's why you have to be wise about where you place. Next to a hospital/firestation or other municipal building is probably not good.

 

You make a good point however (comma), if the owner gets *permission* (as is required by GC) then a cache near some government buildings shouldn't be a problem.

 

I have a cache at our local E-911 office. The director loves it because it's great for public relations and because she gets to put promotional "stuff" in it whenever she wants.

 

It's all a matter of who you ask and how you explain geocaching. :mad: (and what type of government building it is)

Edited by ranger-rob
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Has anyone attempted notifying the police of cache locations so they don't waste their time and our money blowing up a box full of McToys, Whoopee cushions, and slinkys?

 

Or is this something that isn't done because the police dept. wouldn't approve without all sorts of permission forms, etc. Or would they not have a central location to keep all the info organized (aside from Geocaching.com) even if they did have it? Are most police depts. aware of Geocaching?

 

Just wondering...

 

bblake

 

Locally around here we have made the Law enforcement types well aware of our sport and have given them contacts if there is every a problem or suspected report. Never saw a problem out this way but I don't know everybody.....

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Only problem with that thinking is that someone creating a real bomb could paint the exact same thing on their bomb. The police can't assume its safe. That's why you have to be wise about where you place. Next to a hospital/firestation or other municipal building is probably not good.

 

Exactly. Placment is the key. While some say clear containers won't get blown up, the evidence doesn't seem to show thats the case.

The bombs in Spain two years ago were in clear containers. Placement is the key as RK has said. That said-many land managers do prefer clear to opaque containers.
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Next to a hospital/firestation or other municipal building is probably not good.

One of my caches is about 2' outside of a city lot where our local cops park their private and duty cars. The cache is a small utility box with a geocaching.com decal and four screws securing the lid. It has aroused a little suspicion, but nothing serious. All of the cops now know what it is, and I have heard from a couple of them that they welcome the activity around their cars because it keeps riff-raff from hanging out back there.

 

I just had a flashback to the scene in American Graffiti when they hooked the chain to the axle of the squad car and the rear axle being ripped off.

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Being a caching-cop, I would say the key to not having to bail your cache out of jail is LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.....

 

When it comes to a report of a suspicious device/object most responding officers are not going to get close enough to read the geocaching disclaimers printed on some caches. Even if they do, most will error on the side of public safety and not handle the device without a bomb robot.

 

As far as plugging in coordinates into the website to see if it is truly a cache, I would venture to say most patrol officers do not have access to a gps unit to gain the cooridnates. Even fewer would know to look here if they did have a gps.

 

I know these things from first hand experience. I was involved in a suspicious object investigation in which a geocache was detonated. The geocacher did not get in any trouble and as a result of that investigation, I got turned on to this great family pasttime.

 

The unfortunate part is that we live in a society where all suspicious objects have to be treated as dangerous.

 

dletz

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if you post the coords for the police station and put a note on there that says you need to go inside to access it maybe the'll get sick and tired of people comming in and call you to come pick it up. not your fault that it is there and not where you left it. you are just updating the info on it's location. :lol:

Tim

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Perhaps the key would be to put the URL for the GC website on the outside of the cache, as well as the G code. I know you would have to make a second trip to the cache to put the G code on it, but I'll bet it would reduce issues with it being mistaken for something bad.

 

There are a couple around here I have found or looked for that were in bad places, in my opinion. In a field behind a house, next to their fence, is not a good spot. Especially when every dog in the neighborhood goes nuts when someone walks out there. Also, putting a cache in a public hunting area and not advising the cacher to wear orange and leave his ball cap with deer horns at the house is a bad thing.

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I will never ever understand the placement of some caches...especially the newbies.

 

Today the coords led me to a major grocery store in my area and a micro placed on the shopping cart return area. There is no way i could get that during the day and I won't go to that area at night and I will mention that I am a Deputy Sheriff and carry ccw.

 

I don't get the draw to hide a cache in front of a store's door. I know the hider went there at night and spent less than a minute snagging the coords and the only time you could get the cache was after hours. Now what would you think....you have a lone male looking at or near the front door of a closed business in a KCA (Known Crime Area).

 

Here in So Cal there are more newbies than OG's (old geocachers) and the plethera of lame lamp post hides and muggle infested hides is out of control. I am surprised that more of these don't get blown up...which seems to be the favorite way of So Cal dept. to deal with caches.

 

I have over 700 finds and have been stopped and questioned no less than 12 times. Once in Paris France. I am so luck to be a cop that I show my I.D. and all is cool. Then I think what if I weren't a cop.

 

I digress. The post that mentioned LOCATION etc got me to thinking.

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Has anyone attempted notifying the police of cache locations so they don't waste their time and our money blowing up a box full of McToys, Whoopee cushions, and slinkys?

 

Or is this something that isn't done because the police dept. wouldn't approve without all sorts of permission forms, etc. Or would they not have a central location to keep all the info organized (aside from Geocaching.com) even if they did have it? Are most police depts. aware of Geocaching?

 

Just wondering...

 

bblake

 

I can assure you that my department knows about geocaching, probably more than they would like. :mad:

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...As far as plugging in coordinates into the website to see if it is truly a cache, I would venture to say most patrol officers do not have access to a gps unit to gain the cooridnates. Even fewer would know to look here if they did have a gps....

Thanks for you input.

 

I think that all officers should have a Geko on their belt.

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...Today the coords led me to a major grocery store in my area and a micro placed on the shopping cart return area. There is no way i could get that during the day ...

I guess I don't understand why you couldn't access the cart return area while the store was open. I know that the first thing I do when I arrive at the grocer is to get a cart. The last thing I do before leaving is to return it. That gives me two opportunities right there to access the cache. Also, from my experience, people don't pay much attention to you when you are getting a cart.

...Here in So Cal there are more newbies than OG's (old geocachers) and the plethera of lame lamp post hides and muggle infested hides is out of control.

It's clear that you don't care for urban micros, but don't you think this is coloring your perception a bit?

I am surprised that more of these don't get blown up...which seems to be the favorite way of So Cal dept. to deal with caches.

I think you will find that the ratio of blown up caches to caches overall (or even urban caches) is extremely small.

I have over 700 finds and have been stopped and questioned no less than 12 times. Once in Paris France. I am so luck to be a cop that I show my I.D. and all is cool. Then I think what if I weren't a cop.

You know, many people post that they get questioned by the police frequently while caching. I've found a couple of caches myself and I've had exactly two LEO contacts during the practice of this hobby. Once, I was in a median near LAX. A police car pulled over and he shouted at me to get out of the median. Luckily, I found the virt on the side of the road, right where he shooed me. The other time, I was logging the Ghost Busters LC. Our state legislators were debating the implementation of an income tax and many citizens were protesting outside the capital building. (This was before I worked on campus. Now I would just show my ID for access.) Troopers were posted around the building just in case things got heated. I approached a couple of troopers and talked to them about the game and explained that I needed a pic of myself at the capital. One of the troopers took the pic of myself and the other one. A good time was had by all.

 

Anyway, a couple of things concern me about your comment. The first is the idea that we should be afraid of police contact. I don't know about you, but I don't generally break laws while playing the game(I know, I was jaywalking near LAX but I didn't get cited, so don't get excited.) I generally don't look suspicious while playing the game because I'm trying not to be on any muggle's radar. Even if a LEO thinks I'm acting suspiciously, its only going to result in my explaining the game for a few minutes. Big deal.

 

The other thing was your implication that your badge is a 'Get out of jail free' card. You may not have meant it that way, but still...

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The post that mentioned LOCATION etc got me to thinking.

 

I always thought location was important too, until the incident involving a cache in the middle of nowhere, i.e.,(four miles as a crow flys from a town of 12). GCMJ5D.jpg

 

From the renamed cache page of "It's Not A Bomb" ... deputy had the priviledge of shooting the plastic film canister with his sidearm til the lid (marked "geocache") popped off and a whisp of paper (previously known as the log) flew out. Meanwhile, the deputy's WIFE was at our geocaching picnic in Santa Maria! Small world...

 

Apparently location doesn't matter!

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...Today the coords led me to a major grocery store in my area and a micro placed on the shopping cart return area. There is no way i could get that during the day ...
I guess I don't understand why you couldn't access the cart return area while the store was open. I know that the first thing I do when I arrive at the grocer is to get a cart. The last thing I do before leaving is to return it. That gives me two opportunities right there to access the cache. Also, from my experience, people don't pay much attention to you when you are getting a cart.

 

Hey what GPS do you use that take you to exactly the spot where a micro is and that you "never" have do to any searching. This particular cart return is in the parking lot where people park right next to it. Yes if you're getting a cart sure no one pays attention to you.

 

...Here in So Cal there are more newbies than OG's (old geocachers) and the plethera of lame lamp post hides and muggle infested hides is out of control.

 

It's clear that you don't care for urban micros, but don't you think this is coloring your perception a bit?

 

I don't mind urban micros. Just don't think ones should be placed in the door of a 24/7 business.

 

I am surprised that more of these don't get blown up...which seems to be the favorite way of So Cal dept. to deal with caches.

 

I think you will find that the ratio of blown up caches to caches overall (or even urban caches) is extremely small.

 

Seems we said the same thing or did we not or did you miss what I was saying because I really don't understand your response.

 

I have over 700 finds and have been stopped and questioned no less than 12 times. Once in Paris France. I am so luck to be a cop that I show my I.D. and all is cool. Then I think what if I weren't a cop.

 

You know, many people post that they get questioned by the police frequently while caching. I've found a couple of caches myself and I've had exactly two LEO contacts during the practice of this hobby. Once, I was in a median near LAX. A police car pulled over and he shouted at me to get out of the median. Luckily, I found the virt on the side of the road, right where he shooed me.

 

Never said other cachers don't get stopped...all I said is that I get an abnormally high contact with police while caching. Plus I have heard from other So cal cachers that it didn't matter that they were playing this game. I have been lucky. One recently was taken to the station and questioned for 2 hours. Another was looking in a bush and was ordered out at gunpoint and cuffed. Kind of would ruin one's day don't ya think!!!

 

Anyway, a couple of things concern me about your comment. The first is the idea that we should be afraid of police contact.

 

Never said anybody should be afraid of police contact! You got something to hide!!!

 

 

I don't know about you, but I don't generally break laws while playing the game(I know, I was jaywalking near LAX but I didn't get cited, so don't get excited.)

 

Been a cop for almost 20 years. Jaywalkers don't get a second look from me so why should I get excited.

 

I generally don't look suspicious while playing the game because I'm trying not to be on any muggle's radar. Even if a LEO thinks I'm acting suspiciously, its only going to result in my explaining the game for a few minutes. Big deal.

 

If you are searching for a cache near a front door of any business...you look suspicious...unless you have some super stealth thing going on where you can't be seen. Tell me how not to look suspicious looking at things that even a homeless person doesn't do. Please!!!

 

The other thing was your implication that your badge is a 'Get out of jail free' card. You may not have meant it that way, but still...

 

You are right it wasn't that way but if you took it that way it seems you have problems with cops. Cool. You ain't the first. However anytime anyperson has a contact with a cop I.D. will be asked for. I carry a weapon I think it's prudent on my part to let the cop know that I do have a weapon and am allowed to have carry it.

 

It seems you took a personal interest in the part about being a cop when the original post was the way newbies hide caches.

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Last fall, I went on a day long hike to the saddle of Mt. Timpanogos which towers above Utah Valley that has city after city of patriotic Americans. I decided on the spot to make an impromptu cache out of a powerade bottle and wrapped black electrical tape completely around it and stuck it sideways in a small bush and propped a few rocks around it to keep it from blowing away. Put some good stuff in it too, including a $10 bill. When I posted it to Geocaching I promptly was informed that it couldn't be listed 'cause it was in a National Wilderness Area and it was against the law to leave man made objects in these areas.

 

As I was pondering over whether to get it or leave it, I asked my son-in-law who had accompanied me on the hike and watched me make the cache what he thought. He said, "Well, I suppose I should have said something at the time, but it sort of looked like it could be a BOMB when you were done wrapping it and the way you placed it and if it was a BOMB, a whole lot of people down in Utah Valley would hear it and definitely see it go off at such a prominent landmark."

 

Well that got me to thinking that I definitely better figure out a way to retrieve it, even though I was leaving for my home in California the next day and a major snow storm was coming. So I put out an e-mail to the Utah Geocachers Association and offered a $50 reward. The next day, a local hiked up in the snow storm to the saddle which is at 11,000 ft., took pictures for proof and retrieved it!!!! I sent him his reward and resolved to be more careful not only in where I place my caches, but WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE!

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Hey what GPS do you use that take you to exactly the spot where a micro is and that you "never" have do to any searching. This particular cart return is in the parking lot where people park right next to it. Yes if you're getting a cart sure no one pays attention to you.

How is that different from any of the thousands of other urban micros? If you can't be stealthy or you are uncomfortable with the search, bo after one of the many other caches in your area and ignore that one.

I don't mind urban micros. Just don't think ones should be placed in the door of a 24/7 business.

Now I'm really confused. Was it 'in the door' or 'in the parking lot'? Either way, please see my advice, just above. ---^

Seems we said the same thing or did we not or did you miss what I was saying because I really don't understand your response.

How is it the same thing? On one hand you imply that most caches die at the hands of the bomb squad. In reality, very few end up going out in this manner. I don't see how these are the same ideas.

Never said other cachers don't get stopped...all I said is that I get an abnormally high contact with police while caching. Plus I have heard from other So cal cachers that it didn't matter that they were playing this game. I have been lucky. One recently was taken to the station and questioned for 2 hours. Another was looking in a bush and was ordered out at gunpoint and cuffed. Kind of would ruin one's day don't ya think!!!

I'm sorry. I have to call 'shenanigans' on you (or as David Letterman might say, 'I have the feeling about 60% of what you say is crap'. I rather doubt that normal police procedure when spotting a person in the bushes is to draw down on them. It is also unlikely that a regular geocacher after explaining to the police what he is doing would be taken in for questioning for two hours. This, of course, ignores the fact that either individual may have fit the description of a dangerous criminal or rare instances involving DC and national security.

Never said anybody should be afraid of police contact! You got something to hide!!!

You actually did imply that people should be afraid of police contact. I think if you read my comments in this thread and in others, you will find that I don't have anything to hide, nor am I concerned about possible police contact.

Been a cop for almost 20 years. Jaywalkers don't get a second look from me so why should I get excited.

Excited-No. Uphold the law-Yes.

If you are searching for a cache near a front door of any business...you look suspicious...unless you have some super stealth thing going on where you can't be seen. Tell me how not to look suspicious looking at things that even a homeless person doesn't do. Please!!!

A quick search will find many threads related to this very issue. Basically, if you act as if you belong, most will assume that you do belong.

You are right it wasn't that way but if you took it that way it seems you have problems with cops. Cool. You ain't the first. However anytime anyperson has a contact with a cop I.D. will be asked for. I carry a weapon I think it's prudent on my part to let the cop know that I do have a weapon and am allowed to have carry it.

That was a pretty lame attempt to turn everything around onto me. The fact is, it appears that you are the one who might have power issues and gets upset when the world doesn't conform to your desires.

 

Obviously, you are correct about notifying him that you are armed. Were you armed in Paris? Certainly, if I am questioned by a LEO when I am armed, I advise him of the fact. As I explained previously, however, this is not a common occurance.

It seems you took a personal interest in the part about being a cop when the original post was the way newbies hide caches.

Ummm, reread our posts. My issues with you were primarily about you trying to make everyone else play the game the way you like to play. I could honestly care less what you do for a living.

 

EDIT: I initially messed up the quotes somehow causing much ugliness.

Edited by sbell111
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...I have over 700 finds and have been stopped and questioned no less than 12 times. Once in Paris France. I am so luck to be a cop that I show my I.D. and all is cool. Then I think what if I weren't a cop....

 

Over 950 finds and I've never been stopped and questioned by a cop. Citizens yes, police, never. Maybe it's the area you live in? I've seen the people in front of me stopped and the people behind me stopped though... So twice members of a cache group. That's still short of 12.

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Here's my funny incident with the local law enforcement agency.

 

I was walking my dogs at the local dog park. While talking to another dog owner, she was a little upset. She mentioned she just saw an ammo box, and had called the cops, they were "on the way".

 

I asked her to show me the box. She pointed from a distance. While I approached it smiling and chuckling, she was going on "stay away, it mighty be a bomb!"

 

Sure enough, it was labeled as an Official Geocache on the outside. I told her what it was, and began to open it to show her.

 

She was upset, and told me to "WAIT FOR THE POLICE - here they come now".

 

Up walked a female police officer, I explained what was going on. I opened it up, showed both women what was inside.

 

I offered to take it home to return the its rightful owner. I left with the AMMO box.

 

BUT, in all fairness....in this crazy world we live in, the thought of a sick person making a bomb labeled and listed as a Geocache has crossed my mind a few times. Hope it never gets to that point.

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However anytime anyperson has a contact with a cop I.D. will be asked for.

 

Not always. One night I hit town about 1 AM and decided to take my Black Lab Poncho for a walk along the base of the levee. I had been there many times before, it was only a 5 minute walk from my home at the time. Suddenly there must have been at least a dozen LEO's chargeing down the levee at me, why I didn't know. Poncho, always the gentlest of dogs, intercepted them, growling and snarling he ran back and forth in front of me, keeping them back about ten feet from me, and nothing I said to him would back him down.

Now Poncho was as obdient as a seeing eye dog, just a whisper or a flick of a finger was always obeyed instantly, but he knew they weren't being nice and he didn't like it. :rolleyes:

Fortunatly the man in charge kept his cool and asked me a few questions, seems they were chasing a suspect who gave them the slip, saw me and figured I was him. THey went on their way without once asking for any ID, or getting close enough to see it if they had.

Man I miss Poncho, he was one in a billion.

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... Man I miss Poncho, he was one in a billion.

I can totally see my dog, Darby, doing that, but you and Poncho were lucky that day.

 

Sadly, a few years ago, a car was seen leaving a local gas station. The driver left his wallet on the roof of the car. The family were unaware of the problem and drove on down the interstate.

 

Another motorist saw money blow off the car and called the police. While no crime was reported, the police made a felony stop on the car. They ordered the family in the car to get out and get on the ground. The family pleaded with the officers to close the car doors so their normally friendly dog wouldn't get out of the car. The LEOs failed to do so. The dog left the car. The family was helpless. Video from the police cars clearly shows the dog approaching the officers, tail wagging. An officer is heard commanding the dog to stop as he fired his shotgun, ending the life of the family pet.

 

Edit: Here's the story on CNN.com. The video can be disturbing.

Edited by sbell111
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... Man I miss Poncho, he was one in a billion.

I can totally see my dog, Darby, doing that, but you and Poncho were lucky that day.

 

Sadly, a few years ago, a car was seen leaving a local gas station. The driver left his wallet on the roof of the car. The family were unaware of the problem and drove on down the interstate.

 

Another motorist saw money blow off the car and called the police. While no crime was reported, the police made a felony stop on the car. They ordered the family in the car to get out and get on the ground. The family pleaded with the officers to close the car doors so their normally friendly dog wouldn't get out of the car. The LEOs failed to do so. The dog left the car. The family was helpless. Video from the police cars clearly shows the dog approaching the officers, tail wagging. An officer is heard commanding the dog to stop as he fired his shotgun, ending the life of the family pet.

 

His "defend the leader to the death" instinct was in overdrive that night. I feared he might be shot as well, which is why I was trying to control him, but he must have thought I was blind to the danger. :)

One officer actually did reach for his revolver but the man in charged stopped him, telling him if he would just stand still my dog wouldn't attack. That's why I said it was fortunate the man in charge kept his cool.

By the same token, had I been walking alone I very well may have been tackled and cuffed before they asked their questions, which could ruin an otherwise fine evening stroll.

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sbell111,

 

It's obvious you have a problem with me and authority mainly police. I have yet to see a post by you where it was positive toward police. Maybe it's your job...I don't know but I do not like the way you characterized me. You don't know me. I don't care for how people play this game and last time I checked we live in a free country where I can say in cache logs that the cache is lame. Apparantly according to you I am not allowed to do that. So when you say that I want people to play by my rules it's clear that you want people to play by your rules.

 

You absolutely exhaust me with your logic and post.

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