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Holding Events To Raise Money For Charities


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The guidelines seem a little grey to me. After reading about people getting booed down by GC.com for trying to sell inappropriate items, holding events in Disney World, etc... I'm just wondering if it would be a big no-no to hold an event, or a series of events where a portion of the proceeds would go to an organization like the CFF (Cystic Fibrosis Foundation)?

 

I have a cousin who reciently died from CF and am trying to come up with a way to help raise money to find a cure. I was just thinking that rather than a token $5 or $10 fee to enter an event it would be $15 or $20 and at the end a check would be donated to the CFF. As I like to think of it, Geocaching for a Cause.

 

Geocoins could be made etc... I know the word "Sponsorship" sets off red flags as well but I have experience organizing events and am just trying to do some good in the world and promote Geocaching in a positive way.

 

If GC.com rains on my parade and something like this would be deemed as a "non-official" event and therefore information on the event would be struck from these forums I'd like feedback as to how I can get the word out to good hearted geocachers who would like to take part in such events.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Funinthealps

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Sorry to rain on your parade :) but someone needs to do it. I will point you to the Geocache Listing Guidelines, and specifically to the section on commercial caches and caches that solicit:

 

Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

 

As for the forums, permitted charitable solicitations are very limited. One exception is the publicizing of trackable geocoin sales or auctions where the proceeds are donated to charity. Another is charitable efforts by geocachers in the affected region or country when there is a major natural disaster. (For example, a discussion of Hurricane Katrina relief efforts in the Southeast Forum.) Other fundraising/solicitation efforts would require prior approval from Groundspeak, and you'd need to state that you had permission when making your initial post, so that the moderators know it's cool.

 

Thus, you would need to contact Groundspeak for permission prior to submitting a fundraising event cache, or promoting it in the forums.

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For a Non-GC event you could E-mail all cachers you know (1 E-mail), then they do the same , asking everyone to send replys to your E-MAIL ADDRESS. Soon you'll have a large address book and can e-mail everyone at once. Don't stop with just people you know, contact any cacher who you have an address for. The word will spread.

Edited by wiseye
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I think you'll find your answer in the guidelines -

 

"Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first."

 

Sounds like an e-mail to Groundspeak is in order if you want to pursue this.

 

 

edit - <sigh> Too slow again...

Edited by yumitori
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For a Non-GC event you could E-mail all cachers you know (1 E-mail), then they do the same , asking everyone to send replys to your

Based on past experience, I'd caution the OP about not "spamming" such messages through the Geocaching.com e-mail system. This tends to trigger complaints to the website.

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:) I think people need to lighten up! Why can't someone just do one general post informing cachers if they wish to donate they can if not that is ok. That way cachers have a choice if they wish to read it or not and they have a choice to reply or not to reply. Just as long as it is posted once and not a spamming thing.

 

I don't believe it takes away the lightness and fun from geocaching at all. At least there are others out there trying to help others. I am a cacher that also fundraises for a charity. I think it's important to give to others and to try to make a difference. Especially in a world filled with negativity, crime, and hurt.

 

In today's economy it is hard to raise money and why not "network" as much as you can? Again, it is up to the cachers to either read it or not. If it is a matter of sticking to the rules and regulations than the whole sport of caching should be abolished since we all have grabbed caches in light posts in parking lots (which technically is private property), etc...

 

You can email me at kaesky@hotmail.com and I would be happy to send you a donation. I know how difficult it is to fundraise as I'm having trouble fundraising for diabetes. I look forward to your email. I would also buy a coin!

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The guidelines seem a little grey to me. After reading about people getting booed down by GC.com for trying to sell inappropriate items, holding events in Disney World, etc... I'm just wondering if it would be a big no-no to hold an event, or a series of events where a portion of the proceeds would go to an organization like the CFF (Cystic Fibrosis Foundation)?

 

I have a cousin who reciently died from CF and am trying to come up with a way to help raise money to find a cure. I was just thinking that rather than a token $5 or $10 fee to enter an event it would be $15 or $20 and at the end a check would be donated to the CFF. As I like to think of it, Geocaching for a Cause.

 

 

First, let me offer my condolences with regards to your coisins passing. It is never a good thing to lose a friend or family member.

 

Geocoins could be made etc... I know the word "Sponsorship" sets off red flags as well but I have experience organizing events and am just trying to do some good in the world and promote Geocaching in a positive way.

 

If GC.com rains on my parade and something like this would be deemed as a "non-official" event and therefore information on the event would be struck from these forums I'd like feedback as to how I can get the word out to good hearted geocachers who would like to take part in such events.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I think a commemorative geocoin and even the geocaching event make perfect sense in a case like this. While I am not sure what the out come would be here at GC as far as listing is concerned, There are other sites that would consider the listing. Maybe even get Today's Cacher to do a write up if they would be willing.

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There are other sites that would consider the listing.

 

I think he wants people to attend. :(

 

I think people need to lighten up! Why can't someone just do one general post informing cachers if they wish to donate they can if not that is ok. That way cachers have a choice if they wish to read it or not and they have a choice to reply or not to reply. Just as long as it is posted once and not a spamming thing.

 

Because everyone has their pet cause and pretty soon the forums will be full of threads shilling for this cause or that.

 

And some causes though many feel are worthwile, are controversial, while others are downright scams. A post about a fundraiser for the Boy Scouts or Planned Parenthood, et. al. may seem perfectly fine to one person and cause another to cancel his account in protest.

 

It puts the moderators in the position of having to be the arbiters of which causes are worthy, which ones aren't and which ones are politcally acceptable.

 

 

I don't believe it takes away the lightness and fun from geocaching at all. At least there are others out there trying to help others. I am a cacher that also fundraises for a charity. I think it's important to give to others and to try to make a difference. Especially in a world filled with negativity, crime, and hurt.

 

It sure is important to give to the less fortunate, but why do we have to use geocaching as an avenue? If we feel the need to donate to a cause, we we should just break out our check books and if we believe the cause needs more exposure, we should e-mail our friends and family and maybe contact the local newspaper.

Edited by briansnat
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funinthealps: Sorry for your loss :(. Just because an event wouldn't be approved there are other things you could do such as:

 

1 - release a travel bug in your cousin's memory. You could use the travel bug to tell about the CFF. I have seen travel bugs for diabetes and the Lance Armstrong Foundation and I've released a breast cancer travel bug in honor of my mom who's a cancer survivor.

 

2 - Place a cache that serves as a memorial to your cousin. You could describe CFF in the cache description and if folks feel motivated to donate they will.

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I think your idea would be approved if you nixed the idea of an "entrance" fee. If you held an event where the main theme was to make others aware of this condition, sold items at auction to go for this charity and maybe had an locked ammo can with a slot cut into it for donations. It would hurt to have a rep from the foundation there to answer questions and take all the procedes at the end of the event.

 

Keystone, would something along this line be O.K.?

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2 - Place a cache that serves as a memorial to your cousin. You could describe CFF in the cache description and if folks feel motivated to donate they will.

 

I think your idea would be approved if you nixed the idea of an "entrance" fee. If you held an event where the main theme was to make others aware of this condition, sold items at auction to go for this charity and maybe had an locked ammo can with a slot cut into it for donations. It would hurt to have a rep from the foundation there to answer questions and take all the procedes at the end of the event.

 

Keystone, would something along this line be O.K.?

Sorry, but if either of these caches appeared in my review queue, I would have to tell the owner to contact Groundspeak for permission. The only exception that the reviewers have been made aware of is if a charity donation is one small component of a larger event. For example, a December holiday party with a cache page mentioning a potluck dinner, geocoin and travel bug trading, some temporary caches to hunt, AND a box at the event location for Toys For Tots donations.

 

BrianSnat's post sums up the reasoning for this policy pretty well.

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I like the idea of a travel bug in her honor. I will certainly send one out for her and help raise awareness that way.

 

Will be speaking with a rep from the CFF this afternoon as well. I've put those wheels in motion weeks ago.

 

BrianSnat's post point is well taken. Here's another thought. What if a memorial event were held? I've sailed in many regattas that were memorial regattas where a portion of the proceeds went into a schlorship fund, or donated to a charitable organization. These races did not take away from the fun or lightheartedness of the sport of sailing. Nor were they used as a platform to push an agenda. Just a bunch of sailors getting together to race around a course and have a little food and party at the end of the day. If you want the tee shirt buy it if not that's ok too, dinner tickets are $7, soda is free, tap beer is a buck.

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to the OP: I'm sorry for your loss. :( I recently buried one of my cats who was the inspiration for my caching name. I hid a cache in memory of him, near the spot where I found my first one several years ago. (Yes I realize there is a difference between a human life and a pet's, so don't even bring that up). It's full of his favorite things to play with at a very peaceful spot.

 

One of my closest geopals released a TB in honor of his niece who also died of CF. It's a great way to remember them.

 

Please don't try to make the event about the fundraising; you will just get frustrated trying. The tsunami events were shut down, there were no Katrina fundraising event, just make it an event to have fun at. If there is a donation box in the corner, or a hat gets passed during an event, that's a different story. The regatta masters have their guidelines, Groundspeak has theirs. People can give to the causes of their choosing without getting a smiley for it.

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Well, the way I see it is:

First, thanks to all people who sent their condolences. Although the post wasn't sympathy seeking it is much appriciated.

Second, I along with the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation need to get in touch with Groundspeak and work out a way that we can educate people about CF (and the sport of Geocaching) in a joint venture. The way I see it, people will golf for a cause, race a regatta for a cause, run a marathon for a cause, jump rope for a cause, so why not cache for a cause?

Third, Have fun while doing it.

My wife and I Iove Geocaching as much as the next person. When time affords it to us we will conquor the most, highest rated, most obscure, and cover most amount of ground over anyone (hopefully), you know who you are. My wife and I also love socailizing, local competition, and events. We also realize that sometimes winning isn't eveything and EVERYONE should have fun.

BOTTOM LINE; We want to create fun, social, and competitive events. We want to do it all over the world and help Geocachers experience places they may have never thought of seeing on their own. In our efforts, we want to help find a cure for a disease that your next child, grandchild, or fellow cachers friend my be afflicted with.

If you're a negative Nancy, fine. There are other events out there where you can camp out, cache, and have fun. The profit from the hot dog you bought at the 4-H stand helps them too. If it's a pot luck, hats off to commerodery.

But, if the Mayo Clinic, IBM, or some other sponsor is willing to up the antie and make an event for a cause more of an "event" where's the problem? It's not commercialsim, it's compassion....

 

Thoughts...

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Regarding volunteer-style events events, we are having a CITO event in New Orleans in conjunction with the Katrina Krewe on April 15 - i.e. it will be located where the Katrina Krewe designates that Saturday's cleanup.

 

I guess there's a consensus that no one will be offended by a CITO - but in some cases, I can see other kinds of non-soliciting volunteer events being denied which are not really that much different from CITO.

Edited by caderoux
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Regarding volunteer-style events events, we are having a CITO event in New Orleans in conjunction with the Katrina Krewe on April 15 - i.e. it will be located where the Katrina Krewe designates that Saturday's cleanup.

 

I guess there's a consensus that no one will be offended by a CITO - but in some cases, I can see other kinds of non-soliciting volunteer events being denied which are not really that much different from CITO.

Thank you for your CITO efforts! Cache In Trash Out is the officially endorsed "cause" of Geocaching.com. In that regard, CITO differs from all other charitable and social endeavors that are proposed for event caches and other promotions. As a private company, Groundspeak retains the right to decide how their websites will be used for the promotion of charitable and social causes. That is why my advice to the OP remains unchanged: you will need to write to contact@ geocaching.com, and you should be prepared to hear a "no" answer. There are many, many worthy causes out there -- this being one of them -- and apart from narrow exceptions including CITO, the choice has been to steer clear of all of them so as not to play favorites.

Edited by Keystone
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Well, the way I see it is:

First, thanks to all people who sent their condolences. Although the post wasn't sympathy seeking it is much appriciated.

Second, I along with the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation need to get in touch with Groundspeak and work out a way that we can educate people about CF (and the sport of Geocaching) in a joint venture. The way I see it, people will golf for a cause, race a regatta for a cause, run a marathon for a cause, jump rope for a cause, so why not cache for a cause?

Third, Have fun while doing it.

My wife and I Iove Geocaching as much as the next person. When time affords it to us we will conquor the most, highest rated, most obscure, and cover most amount of ground over anyone (hopefully), you know who you are. My wife and I also love socailizing, local competition, and events. We also realize that sometimes winning isn't eveything and EVERYONE should have fun.

BOTTOM LINE; We want to create fun, social, and competitive events. We want to do it all over the world and help Geocachers experience places they may have never thought of seeing on their own. In our efforts, we want to help find a cure for a disease that your next child, grandchild, or fellow cachers friend my be afflicted with.

If you're a negative Nancy, fine. There are other events out there where you can camp out, cache, and have fun. The profit from the hot dog you bought at the 4-H stand helps them too. If it's a pot luck, hats off to commerodery.

But, if the Mayo Clinic, IBM, or some other sponsor is willing to up the antie and make an event for a cause more of an "event" where's the problem? It's not commercialsim, it's compassion....

 

Thoughts...

 

Because as briansnat said, someone will then do it for something more controversial (or that at least something that has sharp differences of opinion between people) and will cause problems. I guess CITO is accepted because there's kind of a direct link to geocaching in that it relates to the outdoors and is not controversial (whose going to complain about cleaning up garbage?), though I kind of agree that having CITO means they should allow other charity things. I also think CITO happened because it helps directly make geocaching look "better" in the press and the general community (people are adding these containers to the woods, but a lot more stuff is being cleaned out from the woods too, etc.).

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I join in your frustration since I just tried to get an event blessed to help raise money for the American Cancer Society and I got the same line!

 

I wanted to do an all-you-can-eat spaghetti feed where ALL the proceeds from the event would go the ACS. Now you tell me? Wouldn't you rather go to an event and donate, say $10 for food and drink and know that all the money goes to helping fight cancer and providing funding to help cancer patients than to be giving it to some for-profit restaurant? Who are they helping? Themselves! Who doesn't know someone who hasn't been touched by cancer? We create these events and spend our money at these establishments and it helps no one.

 

Last year my wife was running in the Marine Corps Marathon via an agreement with the Whiteman-Walker Clinic in DC to raise money for AIDS. At our picnic before the run, during the announcements portion I mentioned she was running and if anyone could donate, to go see her at the table and fill out a form.

 

Had I set up an event with the intention of bringing people there to donate, that would have been rejected. I'm okay with that, since the purpose of the site is for geocaching, not raising money for charity.

 

I've heard of geocoins being sold to help families, but you can't have an event that helps a people dying of cancer? or any other disease for that matter? We're not forcing people to come. People have choice whether or not to read a cache page and decide whether or not to attend or not attend.

 

"Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda." No matter what, a charity is an agenda, no matter how good it is. Without the "okay" from the site admins, your event won't get through.

 

We can approve caches where we if we want to cache in a park you have to pay a parking fee? Isn't that a form of commercialization?

 

It's supporting the parks, whom we rely on to allow caches.

 

What about caches that are in establishments where you feel like you have to buy something in order to not feel guilty for having to come in to get the cache?

 

I don't like those, and I think most reviewers would kick those back as well.

 

There definitely is a GRAY area. Let's forget the people that are dying/suffering from diseases or who are homeless from devastation and natural disasters, let's give our money to the restaurants and the parks and let's just think of ourselves and cache.

 

I cache to get AWAY from all those things. My life is full enough with stuff like that where I don't need it to infiltrate my time that I'm trying to forget these things, even for just an hour or two.

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Would minting a geocoin about CF be allowed? If so, you could donate all profits to CF.

 

Do you belong to a local geocaching group? If so, you could spread the word about your event through them. It wouldn't be an "official" geocaching event, but if you're having an event and you happen to have geocachers attend, you'd still get the same effect. And, in order to be a successful fundraiser, I doubt you'd want to limit it to just geocachers anyway.

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There definitely is a GRAY area. Let's forget the people that are dying/suffering from diseases or who are homeless from devastation and natural disasters, let's give our money to the restaurants and the parks and let's just think of ourselves and cache.

 

Sorry I find this statement a bit over the top. You have no idea what individuals do in their day to day work. Perhaps they use caching as a means to leave behind their dailey exposure to death and dying and grief. Fact of the matter is, it is not up to you to judge. I don't care to attend any charity related cache events. Even if I support the cause. Even if I am not required to donate to attend. I wouldn't feel comfortable attending and not donating obviously. I totally stand behind Groundspeeks' rules to not let the two get mixed up together. This is a game, not a platform. If I want to donate to a good cause, I can find the place to do so on my own.

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There definitely is a GRAY area. Let's forget the people that are dying/suffering from diseases or who are homeless from devastation and natural disasters, let's give our money to the restaurants and the parks and let's just think of ourselves and cache.

 

Sorry I find this statement a bit over the top. You have no idea what individuals do in their day to day work. Perhaps they use caching as a means to leave behind their dailey exposure to death and dying and grief. Fact of the matter is, it is not up to you to judge. I don't care to attend any charity related cache events. Even if I support the cause. Even if I am not required to donate to attend. I wouldn't feel comfortable attending and not donating obviously. I totally stand behind Groundspeeks' rules to not let the two get mixed up together. This is a game, not a platform. If I want to donate to a good cause, I can find the place to do so on my own.

 

What a silly thing to say! Who cares what people do in there day to day work? No one is talking about that! And no one (other than you) is judging. They are giving their opinions.

 

This whole thing is really a game of words. Ground speak doesn't want their name linked with anything where a "donation" is required, asked for, or even hinted at. Geocachers are seemingly being protected, at least in this instance from being "pressured" to give, or donate money. Forget about what Rufusthecat said where there are caches in establishments where you feel like a fool if you don't spend some money. Forget the events that are held in restaurants where the profits just line some individuals pockets. Forget about the "blessed" Geocoin with its own icon and is trackable being put out by someone who isn't a big cacher, doesn't want to trade for other coins, but only wants to sell their coin for a quick buck!

 

It seems to me that if you eliminate the word donation and just charge a flat fee to attend an event and then stuff all the money in your pocket, Ground speak is fine with it.

Edited by Blue iis
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I too have no idea what individuals do in their day to day work, maybe as stated they use Geocaching as a means to leave behind their daily exposure to stress, sickness, death, dying or grief, it matters not to me. It is not up to me to question why they go Geocaching and I hope not up to them to question why I go Geocaching. I have my reasons but in no way do I go or want to go Geocaching to promote an event or raise money for a cause. Personally I don't care to attend any cause related events of any sort, not even if I support the cause, not even if I am not required to donate to attend, not even if the money I spend at the event may result in me receiving a meal, a prize or item of value. I want to enjoy Geocaching as an activity for my own pleasure when and where I see fit. I totally stand behind Groundspeaks' rules to not let fun and causes get mixed up. This is a game, not a cause related platform and as such should stay that way. If I want to promote a cause or donate to a cause I will find the place to do so on my own. I suggest that others do so as well. It always amazes me that there are so many out there who are so willing to try and get me to part with my time or money for their favorite cause. If they are really concerned about their cause I ask that they please support it with their own time and their own money, let me do the same for my pet cause. I have been intimately touched by several of the leading premature causes of death but I don't feel that gives me the right to use Geocaching or any other activity to raise funds for them, bingo, darts, walks, swims card games etc. I do however feel that we should support causes that concern us but let's do it straight up, we should not piggyback on people's desire to do other activities. If this is considered a rant than so be it.

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Before I write a more lengthy opinion of the latest replys, let me pose this question. If Groundspeak were to agree to announce an event, where the proceeds benefited a charity (Let's make it the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation for this example), in your area (otherwise you would probably never hear of it anyway), would you be so put off as to quit stop Geocaching or give up your Premium Memebership and its benefits if you have one? Or, would you simply not attend? Be honest with yourself.

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I've heard of geocoins being sold to help families, but you can't have an event that helps a people dying of cancer? or any other disease for that matter? We're not forcing people to come. People have choice whether or not to read a cache page and decide whether or not to attend or not attend.

 

Would minting a geocoin about CF be allowed? If so, you could donate all profits to CF.

As noted in my first post to this thread, when it comes to geocoins there is a narrow exception to the general rule in the forums that charitable solicitations are not permitted. Once Groundspeak decided that they would continue to allow posts discussing sales and trades of trackable geocoins, they realized that it's impossible to differentiate between a coin sale whose net proceeds go into the pocket of the coin creator, and a coin sale whose net proceeds benefit a charity. So, rather than having to enlist an army of moderators to investigate where all the sale proceeds went, an exception was made so that sales of geocoins for charitable purposes can be discussed in the forums. Of course, the design and theme of each coin goes through the approval process for trackable coins. And, the discussion of the charity should be brief, perhaps linking to the charity's own website.

 

I hope that this explanation is helpful.

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If Groundspeak were to agree to announce an event, where the proceeds benefited a charity (Let's make it the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation for this example), in your area (otherwise you would probably never hear of it anyway), would you be so put off as to quit stop Geocaching or give up your Premium Memebership and its benefits if you have one? Or, would you simply not attend? Be honest with yourself.

 

First off, I'm sorry for your loss and I commend you for thinking of ways to help the cause you hold dear. I think the geocoin idea is probably a good one, especially seeing how rabid some geocoin adicts are :huh:

 

But here is the rub of the entire discussion. Instead of, as in your example, using a cause that not too many people would be against...why don't we put it for a different and more controversial cause, such as (since you're also from MN :huh: ) a event either for and or against a marriage amendment? Obviously if such an event were held for one, then the other must be held as well...and I'm decently sure it's safe to assume that either one is going to be something someone will argue about. You see, when an exception is made for one cause, who's the judge of what other cause is valid? This is the true slippery slope...and you can't really argue "we only let good causes in" because good in many ways (as seen by aguments just about cache's in general) is in the eyes of the beholder...

 

I for one am in total agreement with Groundspeak for thier current rule, because it eliminates the judgement of event's based on the "cause" and only judges them on the current rules of Geocaching. By excluding all but the CITO events (which are mostly there to make sure parks like us :D ), you do not have arguments as to what is the "best" cause...you only get the discussion about why no cause is allowed. A bit easier to manage, and with how much work the Groundspeak volunteers do for now, I wouldn't want to heap that kind of judgement call on them.

 

Does this make more sense as to their current stance? And yes, I just mean this as a discussion point, not to open up controversy on any specific topic...I just wanted to pick something that was a bit more obvious of a reason why I can see the current rules as valid.

 

*really should shut up more in the forums* :huh:

 

Celticwulf

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Before I write a more lengthy opinion of the latest replys, let me pose this question. If Groundspeak were to agree to announce an event, where the proceeds benefited a charity (Let's make it the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation for this example), in your area (otherwise you would probably never hear of it anyway), would you be so put off as to quit stop Geocaching or give up your Premium Memebership and its benefits if you have one? Or, would you simply not attend? Be honest with yourself.

 

Would I so put off I would quit? No.

Do I want to see it? No.

 

Others have commented at length and very well so I won't/can't add much.

 

But what happens when there's a "Support Gay Marriage" Event and people do get offended? Then the camapigns start about how Groundspeak supports Gay Marriage and it becomes political.

 

Again, sorry for your loss. I lost my uncle to cancer but this isn't the place or means to solicit donations.

 

Why not do it at work and use that network?

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Whether it's a "Support Gay Marriage" event or "Save Signal the Frog" event, you have a choice to read it or not. If these topics didn't appeal to me, then I wouldn't open them.

 

That's incorrect. You have no choice whether to read it or not, much like you had no choice to read this sentence.

 

More to the point:

 

 

But what happens when there's a "Support Gay Marriage" Event and people do get offended? Then the camapigns start about how Groundspeak supports Gay Marriage and it becomes political.

 

 

We don't want to be put in the position of advocating any charity. There are already several avenues offered to geocachers other than creating events as a platform for raising money.

 

(edit: fixed quotes)

Edited by Jeremy
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Anyways, everyone has an opinion which is exactly why these threads are here and why we are reading them. It piqued your interest, you opened it and you read it. Now if it didn't pique your interest you wouldn't be in here would you?

 

Yes everybody has thier opinion and is welcome to them. I typicall like engaging in intelligent debates with folks who can do so without it becoming a flame-fest. I commend everybody who has posted so far for doing so tactfully and respectfully as this could certainly heat up easily.

 

That being said, the point of this thread has nothing to do with this statement:

It piqued your interest, you opened it and you read it. Now if it didn't pique your interest you wouldn't be in here would you?

 

The purpose for this thread was to answer a question as posed by the OP:

I'm just wondering if it would be a big no-no to hold an event, or a series of events where a portion of the proceeds would go to an organization like the CFF (Cystic Fibrosis Foundation)?

 

I came in to see what the intended event was and point the OP in the direction of the guidlelines but was WAY too late for that. He then sked for more opinions and I stated mine.

 

edit: stupid quote tags....

Edited by kealia
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Whether it's a "Support Gay Marriage" event or "Save Signal the Frog" event, you have a choice to read it or not. If these topics didn't appeal to me, then I wouldn't open them.

 

That's incorrect. You have no choice whether to read it or not, much like you had no choice to read this sentence.

 

More to the point:

 

 

But what happens when there's a "Support Gay Marriage" Event and people do get offended? Then the camapigns start about how Groundspeak supports Gay Marriage and it becomes political.

 

 

We don't want to be put in the position of advocating any charity. There are already several avenues offered to geocachers other than creating events as a platform for raising money.

 

(edit: fixed quotes)

 

Incorrect. Although you may not have a choice to read or not read. The choice is do I want to attend or not? Just like any cache. Will I, or won't I go after that micro, multi, or what ever.

 

I understand that Geocaching.com feels uncomfortable taking a stand and doesn't want to add a tag line about supporting, or not supporting a cause.

 

Got it!

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I've yet to figure out how to use the "quote" yokie in these forums. Anyhow, Celticwolf, I can gladly say that I am not "from" Minnesota I only live here (for 457 more days to be exact). I hail from the great state of Superior (or what the maps show as The Upper Peninsula of Michigan) and my partner in crime was bread and buttered in Ireland. O.K. the dog IS from Minnesota.

 

It's been enlightening to see my simple little question getting people to think, speak up, and show who they are. I wish that the mountain that was created from my mole hill of a question was located here in S. Minnesota so I could place caches on it and then ski down.

 

So far, as far as I can tell, oh boy here comes the can of worms, fellow geocaches have had the "freedom" to name their caches whatever handle they chose to put on it. I've only placed 2 so far "The Birchwood Inn TB Lodge" and "Over the River and Through the Woods" but have been planning out a few more clever placements to go up for review within the next month. I was building the containers this afternoon.

 

I personally would never do this, but what if someone were to name their cache "Keep Abortion Legal"? Or, "Hitler was Right"?

 

Now, we have a situation where the hard working volunteers are once again in a political conundrum. To be less obvious as the above named suggestions, cachers could name their caches "Canidate X's Outdoor Paradise". Canidate X is getting a free plug if the reviewer isn't up on the local politics.

 

Bottom Line; People are confusing politics with fighting a disease. Stem cell research is the only example that I can think of where the two issues come anywhere close to overlaping. And if there is a geocacher out there somewhere that wants to stick a 100 or so hours into organizing an event for stem cell research, God love em'. Hopefully there are a few hundred other caches out there that AGREE with his cause and CHOOSE to participate in his event.

 

Geocaching is a game, an activity. An event is taking the games concept and organizing it in a central location. If an organization, organizing an event, makes a few bucks to be put toward a charity a big deal should not be made of it.

 

Groundspeak is not necessarly endorsing an event just because they publish it. They could always have an almighty disclaimer on the event page. Or a seperate catagory for charitable, or commercial for that matter, events that may be of interest to any or all of us geocachers.

 

I'd like to start taking groups of geocachers to both Ireland and Germany for fun, caching, sightseeing, and good times. I have experience arranging trips like this. I can offer great discounts on airfare, hotels, transportation. Would anyone object to a service like this? The only AGENDA would be to fill a bank account. Just like the 4H hotdog stand :huh: .

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Bottom Line; People are confusing politics with fighting a disease. Stem cell research is the only example that I can think of where the two issues come anywhere close to overlaping. And if there is a geocacher out there somewhere that wants to stick a 100 or so hours into organizing an event for stem cell research, God love em'. Hopefully there are a few hundred other caches out there that AGREE with his cause and CHOOSE to participate in his event.

 

And you're confusing a sport/game/hobby with a platform to push your agenda.

 

Don't get me wrong, I support Cystic Fibrosis, Stem Cell research, Cancer Research, etc. but this isn't the place for it.

 

Jeremey himself has spoken out on this so there is no confusion about the rules.

Why keep beating a dead horse?

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Why keep beating a dead horse?

I think the OP has switched horses. Hmmm, I think I've closed down two travel/tour/cruise threads so far this year.

 

From the Forum Guidelines:

Commercial Postings/Solicitations are not allowed. Commercial content as a direct or indirect (either intentional or non-intentional) attempt to solicit customers through a forum post will be edited or deleted. Notwithstanding the above, Groundspeak reserves the right to include limited commercial content in this Forum, in its sole discretion.

Time to climb on the horse that will take you to a nice ammo box in the woods?

Edited by Keystone
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Bottom Line; People are confusing politics with fighting a disease. Stem cell research is the only example that I can think of where the two issues come anywhere close to overlaping. And if there is a geocacher out there somewhere that wants to stick a 100 or so hours into organizing an event for stem cell research, God love em'. Hopefully there are a few hundred other caches out there that AGREE with his cause and CHOOSE to participate in his event.

 

Geocaching is a game, an activity. An event is taking the games concept and organizing it in a central location. If an organization, organizing an event, makes a few bucks to be put toward a charity a big deal should not be made of it.

 

But this is where you are incorrect. There is, here in America, a certain charitble organization that I actively do not support. Which one you ask? How would you know? How would the reviewers know. Yes, I can certainly choose not to attend an event in support of this particular organization. I can also choose to let my membership expire if it was ever supported in anyway by a game I choose to participate in. No problem, my choice. But see where this leads? If there is one of me, I'm sure there are more. And not all of them would neccessarily be active in boycotting the particluar organization that I am. I'm sure there are many organizations that are boycotted by some while others see no problem in supporting them. So who is to say which ones would offend the least amount of people?

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Cystic Fibrosis Foundation

American Cancer Society

March of Dimes

 

All worthwhile charities that most of of us would support. But what about the Cancer Fund of America? Sounds like a worthwhile charity, but most of the money raised never makes it to those in need.

 

American Red Cross

Oxfam

Amnest International

Sierra Club

Salvation Army

Toys for Tots

United Way

 

Now we're getting into charities that many (if not most people) find to be worthwhile, but are controversial in some quarters. Some people are not thrilled with how much the ARC and the United Way compensate executives. Others are not thrilled with how they allocate money. There are people who would never give a dime to Oxfam, Sierra Club or Amnesty International because a perceived (or real) socialist bent. Toys for Tots is run by the US Marines and some pacifists may have an issue with that while others take issue with the Salvation Army's religious agenda.

 

Planned Parenthood

Greenpeace

Boy Scouts of America

 

Now we have controversy. Many people feel these are wonderful charities and give freely, while a portion of the population feels they are evil incarnate. Some of those feel so strongly against them that events supporting them could generate angry letters and forum threads and subscription cancellations, while everyone else is wondering what all the fuss is about.

 

Aryan Nations

Hamas

Jewish Defense League

 

Here are some causes that have their enthusiastic supporters, but can be incredibly polarizing. Most will agree that the events supporing them don't belong on this site, yet I'm sure we can find supporters of each one among us.

 

In addition to the ones mentioned above and others like them, there are some charities that do a very poor job of getting the donated money to the intended cause. Should events supporting these be allowed here? Not to mention the charities that are downright scams. Everything from fronts set up by politicians to funnel money into their campaign coffers to crooks looking to line their pockets (hey, am I being redundant? :laughing: ).

 

My point here is that what might seem to be a slam dunk, good cause to one person, could be controversial to another. Do we really want reviewers to have to research these causes and be the arbiters of which are worthwhile and which aren't? Heck, there are enough issues with cache reviews which is their supposed area of expertise.

 

There are really only two ways of doing this. Allow all and let the individual geocachers decide whether they want to attend the event. The downside is that this has the potential to cause anger, hard feelings and even cancelled subscriptions - or allow none. The downside of this is that it has potential to cause anger, hard feelings and even cancelled subscriptions.

 

TPTB chose the latter route, because they feel its right for them. I think people should respect that.

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Before I write a more lengthy opinion of the latest replys, let me pose this question. If Groundspeak were to agree to announce an event, where the proceeds benefited a charity (Let's make it the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation for this example), in your area (otherwise you would probably never hear of it anyway), would you be so put off as to quit stop Geocaching or give up your Premium Memebership and its benefits if you have one? Or, would you simply not attend? Be honest with yourself.

I'll assume that being honest with myself means being honest in my response?

I would not stop geocaching because of one cache or event (It took a series of GDUMs to make me take a time-out from caching for awhile.), I simply wouldn't search for that cache or attend that event.

But, I can't ever picture myself paying $15-$20 dollars just to attend an event. It doesn't matter what the charity is.

I have donated more than that to a charity while attending an event, but that was when there was a collection for "Toys for Tots" at the event and I brought $20+ worth of toys with me. But that donation was strictly volunteery and not directly connected with the event.

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This has been a very interesting thread to read. I believe all the opinions stated are truely from the hearts of people.

TPTB have drawn the line for charities and it is near the bottom. CITO is what they endorse and I agree that this is the right course for geocaching.

"So what", you might say as to what zoltig thinks? My daughter has CF. I would like to see nothing more than a Cystic Fibrosis Foundation event. That being said, I do not feel that geocaching is the venue.

Now as far as a coin (if that is possible) how about it saying "Sixty Five Roses". Families who deal with CF know what this means. Sixty Five Roses

funinthealps, thank you.

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Cystic Fibrosis Foundation

American Cancer Society

March of Dimes

 

All worthwhile charities that most of of us would support. But what about the Cancer Fund of America? Sounds like a worthwhile charity, but most of the money raised never makes it to those in need.

 

American Red Cross

Oxfam

Amnest International

Sierra Club

Salvation Army

Toys for Tots

United Way

 

Now we're getting into charities that many (if not most people) find to be worthwhile, but are controversial in some quarters. Some people are not thrilled with how much the ARC and the United Way compensate executives. Others are not thrilled with how they allocate money. There are people who would never give a dime to Oxfam, Sierra Club or Amnesty International because a perceived (or real) socialist bent. Toys for Tots is run by the US Marines and some pacifists may have an issue with that while others take issue with the Salvation Army's religious agenda.

 

Planned Parenthood

Greenpeace

Boy Scouts of America

 

Now we have controversy. Many people feel these are wonderful charities and give freely, while a portion of the population feels they are evil incarnate. Some of those feel so strongly against them that events supporting them could generate angry letters and forum threads and subscription cancellations, while everyone else is wondering what all the fuss is about.

 

Aryan Nations

Hamas

Jewish Defense League

 

Here are some causes that have their enthusiastic supporters, but can be incredibly polarizing. Most will agree that the events supporing them don't belong on this site, yet I'm sure we can find supporters of each one among us.

 

In addition to the ones mentioned above and others like them, there are some charities that do a very poor job of getting the donated money to the intended cause. Should events supporting these be allowed here? Not to mention the charities that are downright scams. Everything from fronts set up by politicians to funnel money into their campaign coffers to crooks looking to line their pockets (hey, am I being redundant? :laughing: ).

 

My point here is that what might seem to be a slam dunk, good cause to one person, could be controversial to another. Do we really want reviewers to have to research these causes and be the arbiters of which are worthwhile and which aren't? Heck, there are enough issues with cache reviews which is their supposed area of expertise.

 

There are really only two ways of doing this. Allow all and let the individual geocachers decide whether they want to attend the event. The downside is that this has the potential to cause anger, hard feelings and even cancelled subscriptions - or allow none. The downside of this is that it has potential to cause anger, hard feelings and even cancelled subscriptions.

 

TPTB chose the latter route, because they feel its right for them. I think people should respect that.

 

Just wanted to say I couldn't agree with you more on this and this is why Groundspeak's policy makes sense.

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Gecaching.com derives its income from geocaching. It's not a free bulletin board. It doesn't report local news or events. If you want to host a fund raiser for whatever, use a different medium to advertise it. Geocaching.com lists geocaches and geocaching events. It's not a provider of free advertising.

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The real problem here is that too many people are too lame to tell the difference between "supporting a cause" and "supporting the right to have a cause". I can respect the position the Groundspeak is forced to take in this situation. And if it were me, I'd make the same one. It would take way too much of their resources trying to put out the fires caused by one person trying to shut down the freedoms of another. I for one would not think that Groundspeak was "supporting" Greenpeace if they were to hold an event cache listed on this site. That doesn't mean I support their cause... but support their right to have such a cause. But situations like this are "all or nothing" because you get into more trouble trying to draw a line in the middle. The easiest solution is to go the "nothing" route. As it has been pointed out, then the only fire you need to deal with is the "Why nothing" fire. And that fire can be easily snuffed by simply pointing the person to the guidelines, saying nothing more and letting it fizzle out... like this one will eventually when the last few get tired of posting here and start posting in another hot thread.

 

I quote I really like from another forum I frequent:

Feel free to be offended as everyone has that right to be offended by something. But if everyone erased everything that offends them in this world, there would be nothing left to erase and no one left to erase it.

 

Some guidelines for life:

  • Whining is not socially acceptable behavior, even for 2-year olds.
  • Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... regardless of how stupid it is.
  • Everyone is entitled to be offended by anyone else's opinion.
  • Everyone has as much right to their own opinion as everyone else does to be offended by that opinion.
  • Everyone has as much right to act like as a**hole as everyone else does to treat them like an a**hole.
  • Everyone is entitled to an equal opportunity to say things that make them look stupid and/or ignorant.
    (there is a difference)
  • You don't need to agree with everyone... not everyone will agree with you.
  • You don't need to like everyone... not everyone will like you.
  • The fact that you may feel really, really strongly about your religion/politics/country/pet/etc does not make your opinion of said topic any more right or important than anyone else's.
  • Whining is not socially acceptable behavior, even for 2-year olds.

I hope this will help us all co-exist here.

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I'll pipe in with a support for no charity events. The reasons being everything already said. If you consider that I found geocaching through the Girl Scouts and would love to host a Girl Scout geocaching event (and may still, only it wouldn't be listed here and would only be open to registered Girl Scouts), then you'd think I'd want to have a huge Girls Go Caching or some such event, but no. When you consider how easy it is for an organization to qualify for charity status, then consider the number of those groups with some extreme agendas, it's really a no-brainer on not allowing them.

 

I wouldn't be worried so much about what the cachers thought about the event because, as many have said, they can simply choose not to go. But do you really think the press won't be at a fundraiser? The press will then have a lovely story about how geocachers belong to group X and support that cause, and how geocaching in general, supposedly a family sport, must also support the cause due to the event, blah blah blah. I've seen how badly some reporters (not all are bad, of course, but a fair number) can get even the simplest things wrong (from name mix ups on up) and we all know how popular trash rags are. Dirt sells. The best thing to do is to not give them any grain of sand to begin with.

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