I'm Not Quite Sure How To Handle This

[+Tsmola]

I haven't been caching too long, but I'm trying to figure out how to handle a cacher in my area who has caches that well...break a few rules here's one of them How did this get approved? From what I see in the rules, these caches violate a few, codewords, moving multi, promotion of buisness, etc. I don't know how they got approved or why they are still there.

 

2 of his caches got archived in the same park as this one for rule violations but for some weird reason the rest of them are still there. 2 in the park the one above is located in, and 2 in another park (one in need of maintenance btw) I'm not quite sure how to handle it, the hider hasn't been online in forever, he stopped seeking caches and just started throwing out hides. There are a few cachers in my area that agree with me these hides are ridiculous and are nothing more than a publicity stunt, but then there are others that seem to have enjoyed them. I don't want to offend the people who were out seeking as there are other good caches in this area I'm sure people would enjoy but they go after his hides instead which I think is a shame.

 

Basically, I'm confused with the reviewer's decisions on his hides, if they were rule breakers why were only 2 archived? I won't lie, I don't like this cacher, everything he writes, both online and in the very few physical caches he went to has plugged the silver. How should I handle this?

[+kelly@9]

Well, it is also important to remember that certain caches that violate the current rules have been grandfathered in because they met the rules that were current on the site when they were submitted. So as long as they stay active on the site and maintained by their owner, they will still be available on the site.

 

For example, there are a number of travelling caches (where the finder re-hides them in a new location and posts the coordinates for the next finder), which clearly violate the current cache rules, but are allowed to remain on the site.

 

Not every rule change will permit existing caches which violate the new rule to be grandfathered in, but some will.

 

Also, remember that reviewers generally only review new cache submissions and existing caches that are brought to their attention.

[+briansnat]

Its quite possible that the owner changed the page after it was approved. I sincerely doubt the cache you linked to would have been approved as is under the guidlines in place in the time it was hidden.

 

As Kelly mentioned, some older caches that are in apparent violation of the guidelines may have been placed before the guideline was implemented.

 

Also, once in a while, one gets by a reviewer that shouldn't.

[+Tsmola]

these caches were placed right around the same time I started caching, in September. I know grandfathered travelling caches still exist, there was one in my area this past week. From the reviewer's notes you would assume he would archive all the caches since there's the same text on every cache page. Also the final of the multi is moved by the owner, the first stage stays put, at least that's what it says on the page. I'm not sure when moving caches were grandfathered, but I assume it was long before I came to this site, and certainly long before these caches were placed. The earliest one he placed that is still up was placed on September 17th, 2005. Just a few days before I got my GPS. This cache has YET to be found! There's only one other cache that I know of within quite a ways from my house that has gone this long without a find, and that's because it's a scuba cache, but the terrain is not difficult where this cache was placed which makes me believe it's gone.

 

I considered emailing a reviewer, but I assumed since he already archived 2 of his caches he was well aware of the others in the series this guy has got going.

[+briansnat]

I considered emailing a reviewer, but I assumed since he already archived 2 of his caches he was well aware of the others in the series this guy has got going.

 

An e-mail to the reviewer might be appropriate. Its possible the others were reported to him, but not this one.

[+Tsmola]

Here's the two of his that were archived, I was a little confused when the reviewer shut these 2 down. This one and this one from what the reviewer said I assumed at the time the others in the series would be archived too. He has 4 more nearly identical in wording caches that are still active.

Edited March 13, 2006 by Tsmola

[bogleman]

dig here

or here

Edited March 13, 2006 by bogleman

[+Renegade Knight]

Some of the rules aren't really rules. I don't think there is a prohibition agasint code words themselves except where they replace a log book. Then the issue is the lack of a log.

 

There is certainly nothing wrong with a code to claim a prize. In this case the price is silver. Yes it's an alternate currencty system that people would like to see used but it's not any more of a promotion of a busines than the foreign coins that I leave.

 

I read one of the archived caches and hope that there was more than meets the eye. Arching because some people chose to bicker in the cache logs (poor taste by the way) rather than in a forum is not really a valid reason to archive a cache.

 

It looks like this guy rubs you wrong but on the cache I did look at he didnt' do anything more than a rookie mistake. You would think that some of the other cachers chewing his butt would recognize this. But some of the worst finders have some of the most finds.

 

Rubbing you wrong isn't a reason to archive a cache.

 

-----------------------------------

 

Read a bit more. It looks like the guy has edited his cache pages to remove some of his economic theory on money and why Liberty Dollars (an alternate Gold standard) are the cats meow. As it happens I don't agree with the Libery Dollar system but I would not turn down a Liberty Silver dollar either. This should have bene a case of leave it alone and don't do the caches if you don't like the guy.

Edited March 13, 2006 by Renegade Knight

[+Tsmola]

Renegade Knight I understand what you are saying, but that's not the only reason I thought they should have been archived. This guy found 13 caches then quit going to them altogether and just worked on placing ones like this. He hasn't been online for quite a while, my concern is he cares more about promoting these coins than he does about the sport of geocaching. Just look at his user webpage. My other worry is he will become one of those users that has found a few caches, then places some and never logs on again, leaving crappy, in need of maintenance caches cluttering the area.

 

And yes, I've seen those links with posts by this particular user before.

[+Renegade Knight]

Here's the two of his that were archived, I was a little confused when the reviewer shut these 2 down. This one and this one from what the reviewer said I assumed at the time the others in the series would be archived too. He has 4 more nearly identical in wording caches that are still active.

 

I don't know why the reviewer shut them down. The guy toned down the "Politics" that Rusty didn't like in all the caches.

 

Beyond the cache swag there is nothing outstanding about these caches anymore. This guy has learned and adapted and it looks like he's trying to toe the line.

[+Tsmola]

This goes back to what I said earlier, my concern he's no longer into caching. If this guy is no longer going to be maintaining his hides then they shouldn't be on the site anymore. No one likes finding destoryed, un-maintained caches, or searching for one that doesn't exist anymore. I suspect his first cache was either destoryed or stolen, it would have been found by now if it was still there as we have some pretty good cachers in the area. I was in the area just the other day and it had been logged. He obviously hasn't been out there to check it out.

 

For a while he was trading items in caches for the silver libertys but not placing the silver in the cache itself, then he'd go on and on about it in his cache logs, I think a few of his finds were deleted by the owners of the caches as a result. I found that to be in very poor taste. If he comes back and starts maintaining them, whatever, I'll ignore them. I was under the impression these were against the rules to begin with, I guess everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't against the rules.

[+welch]

This goes back to what I said earlier, my concern he's no longer into caching. If this guy is no longer going to be maintaining his hides then they shouldn't be on the site anymore. No one likes finding destoryed, un-maintained caches, or searching for one that doesn't exist anymore. I suspect his first cache was either destoryed or stolen, it would have been found by now if it was still there as we have some pretty good cachers in the area. I was in the area just the other day and it had been logged. He obviously hasn't been out there to check it out.

I'm having a hard time following all the cache edits, and profile links, and some older forum threads about silver values so I probably missed the specifics. Basically I think If theres some problem with his cache, post a 'need archived' or email the reviewer. If the reviewer says its a problem it will have to be addressed or will eventally get archived.

[+Tsmola]

Basically my concern is that the caches not only violate the rules: code words, promoting a commercial business (look at his website for that) but that these caches are no longer being cared for. It doesn't have anything to do with the silver, or as I'm told, lack there of... but if he's even going to be active anymore. One of his caches is in need of repair already. This is a good area he's got these in, if he's not gonna maintain them I'd rather see them archived so other caches may be placed.

[+Renegade Knight]

This goes back to what I said earlier, my concern he's no longer into caching. If this guy is no longer going to be maintaining his hides then they shouldn't be on the site anymore. No one likes finding destoryed, un-maintained caches, or searching for one that doesn't exist anymore. I suspect his first cache was either destoryed or stolen, it would have been found by now if it was still there as we have some pretty good cachers in the area. I was in the area just the other day and it had been logged. He obviously hasn't been out there to check it out.

 

For a while he was trading items in caches for the silver libertys but not placing the silver in the cache itself, then he'd go on and on about it in his cache logs, I think a few of his finds were deleted by the owners of the caches as a result. I found that to be in very poor taste. If he comes back and starts maintaining them, whatever, I'll ignore them. I was under the impression these were against the rules to begin with, I guess everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't against the rules.

 

A few points.

 

He last logged into GC.com on Feb 11th. Just over 30 days ago. That's shy of having abandoned the hobby. He's obsessed with Liberty Dollars. He has learned from having a couple of caches archived on him and scaled back the splash he used on his cache pages. There is no rule about making a production of what you leave in a cache. That some owners may have deleted logs because of it is as much poor taste on their part as his stuck record logs may be in poor taste to begin with. One notch worse in my book. If he found the cache he found the cache. If he has reason to believe there is a problem with a cache then he should maintain it when he has a chance.

 

As the cache owner it's his cache. Not the finders, not this sites. He's responsble for his caches care and feeding based on his own schedule. This site doesn't have strict to the letter guidlines on what 'acceptable' maintance is. There is a reason for that. In time Rusty will deal with the issue. This isn't a fast process, nor should it be. If in the end his style proves to be to leave and abandon caches then people will learn that about this guy and avoid his caches.

 

Right now it seems like he's learned a little about what not to do. You strike me though as taken a personal interest in having this guy axed.

[+Tsmola]

Look, my original concern was these caches were breaking the rules, is there something wrong with that?

 

Personally, I don't think he's into this for the fun of geocaching because he only went after caches for about 2 weeks before he quit seeking because people were taking his silver without logging it online, which he whined about in his logs.

 

Ever since I looked at his posts and caches closer I've seen it as nothing more than an attempt to plug the Liberty Dollar, and according to one log by a cacher who found one there was a number inside advertised on the coin, I was under the impression this was against the rules. Even his logs in the few physical caches he visted, all he mentioned in them was silver libertys he left nearby. It just sounds like a commercial to me.

Edited March 14, 2006 by Tsmola

[+Rusty & Libby]

If you see a cache that you think is breaking the rules then post a should be archived note to it. What on earth is the point of posting a forum thread when you don't notify either the cache owner or the local reviewer that there may be a problem? That is what the logs are for.

 

I did not do the reviews on all of this persons caches but the ones that I listed met the guidelines at the time based on the info given to me. If it has changed or was misrepresented and you know it then please post a log to the cache pages.

[+Confucius' Cat]

You strike me though as taken a personal interest in having this guy axed.

I agree.

(from OP's log)

lrgoodger, for your next cache, instead of a near-impossible to find micro, where there's nothing but an empty tube for a code for the final stage why not an ammo can or other larger cache for the final, like I'm the one I'm planning to place soon. You can still make it challenging (camo a larger container, it's not hard to do!) and put a larger logbook in that instead of the first stage? (I like reading the logbooks in larger caches, I have yet to do any actual trading of swag in a cache, it's just a lot more fun to find a larger one and read the experiences of others on their way to the cache, since you can write a lot more in a large lookbook than you can in a micro) Put your clues in the first stage, then you can put your code if you must in the ammo can, but at least then someone will have something more to find than an empty tube for the secondary, and the cache can be used to move TB's and stuff in the future as well.

 

Whereas I agree micros in the woods are seldom fun, theaddition of a REAL prize for finding it might just temper MY condemnation a little.

 

This cache wasn't done the way you would have liked. Whoopee. Have you considered perhaps it might have been done the way the OWNER liked? That is his perogative.

 

Hey, Irgooder (if you're listening) how bout hiding some silver dollars in southern Indiana?

 

And to continue in the vein of your log: Tsmola, when you place your nice ammo can with a big log book you REALLY need to put some gold bullion in it. A cache that does not have gold bullion in it is really nothing more than geolitter. They are really no fun at all! I mean, if I have to get out of my car and trudge 20 feet across a parking lot and search for ten seconds just to be rewarded with a lousy piece of SILVER, I'll give up this sport. GOLD BULLION, UNDERSTAND? Don't place a cache without it.

 

(the above was sarcacm meant to illustrate the absurdity of this whole issue)

 

Sorry you didn't find your silver. Cache on.

[+Renegade Knight]

Look, my original concern was these caches were breaking the rules, is there something wrong with that?

...

 

Nope.

 

As his cache page is now, it's not commercial. No rule broken there. It looks like Rusty archived a couple back when perhaps the pages were. I suspect they have been changed. Wanting to know what happens to your better cache prizes is a common thing. His 1oz Silver Coins cost more than the average geocoin and people like to know what happened to them. He solved that problem by using a method of redeeming. Same as I'm giong to be doing for some 2005 Idaho Coins that I have this summer.

 

A person doesn't have to find caches to place caches. They don't have to enjoy that part of the game to enjoy the other part. That's not a rule either. If his fun is to place Silver then so be it. Having fun finding a cache is optional and if you read the forums there are a lot of people who are good at opting out of the fun.

 

One time bonus caches are also something that has been done. When peple ask about listing them here they are told to do exactly as he appears to do. Leave a clue in a cache for the bonus cache.

 

Without better information it looks like what this guy is doing is within the bounds of geocaching. Even if it wasn't at one time, it looks to be ok now.

 

Reading the cache logs he rates all his caches 3 and up. Those are hard caches. If you read the guidelines on what 3 is, it can take several trips or all of an afternoon to find. The skunks and DNF's on his caches are in line with a 3 based on reading the logs. Based in killer squirrels and the maps (and I don't know the area) he looks like he places remote caches as well. Those tend to take longer to maintain just because they are out of town, under snow, and away from where you can zip over on your lunch hour.

[+Tsmola]

I was still a relative noob when I posted that, I don't totally agree with everything I posted there. I have no problem with micros, the topic isn't about that. Frankley now after caching a while I think the whole micro vs larger cache thing is ridiculous.

 

Look I'm not trying to offend anyone, for your info I didn't want his stupid silver btw. I've been ignoring his hides, just looking at them today I wondered why they had not been archived because they seemed to break the rules to me. I felt like I should have done something but I didn't know what to do. I thought about posting a SBA, but didn't because of the anger that generally comes from that, if I would have known it would have done this on the forum I never would have started the topic as that was what I was hoping to avoid by getting advice here. Sheesh.

[+Tsmola]

Renegade Knight, the caches aren't THAT remote, his first and second caches are not even a half mile into the woods, only reason I have the coords in my gps was to keep any caches I placed within the saturation guidelines, although I don't know where the secondaries are for these.

 

Last time I looked at the link under his name on the cache page, NOT the Cache page itself, the user webpage link, I found a site that had phone numbers and even a few prices for buying the silver coins, that's why I saw these as commercial caches, it may not be on the geocaching.com site, but I felt the real reason for these caches was clear from that.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Look I'm not trying to offend anyone,...

 

No offence taken. I don't think anyone else is offended. You posted a question and got opinions. Rust is the person who is going to make the final call.

 

If you want some entertaining reading you can do a forum search for Liberty Dollars. He created quite a stir in the forums as well.

[+Tsmola]

yes I've read all those posts, I thought it would be more clear why I'm concerned from them as he obviously has another agenda in those posts, at least that's what it seemed to me.

[+CamoCacher]

 

As the cache owner it's his cache. Not the finders, not this sites. He's responsble for his caches care and feeding based on his own schedule. This site doesn't have strict to the letter guidlines on what 'acceptable' maintance is. There is a reason for that. In time Rusty will deal with the issue. This isn't a fast process, nor should it be. If in the end his style proves to be to leave and abandon caches then people will learn that about this guy and avoid his caches.

 

 

I disagree with this to some degree. Say it gets left and someone like a city official finds it in very bad disrepair and that park then bans caching in its boarders because of "trash" left by other cachers or a muggle finds it and checks out caching to a certain extent but not enough and forms an opinion about trash cachers leave laying about, etc.

 

I know I found a cache this weekend, sorrounded by water, rusted coffee can, broken lid, contents all wet, with a couple previous complaints in the past, and very few visits recently. Yes the placers are still on the site and regualrly cache. I grabbed the whole cache and posted a found and needs archieved. Now if I had a container I would have fixed it up but I didn't.

[+Adventure.AS]

Basically my concern is that the caches not only violate the rules ... but if he's even going to be active anymore. One of his caches is in need of repair already. This is a good area he's got these in, if he's not gonna maintain them I'd rather see them archived so other caches may be placed.

 

It appears that part of your argument is that you wish to place caches in these coveted locations.

[+Tsmola]

The actual locations where he hid the caches are not the best places in this particular park to hide one, in fact they are very poor locations I don't want them, a micro or small could be placed better nearby, but even so the locations itself are not very desirable for a cache.

 

I have plans for a multi in the same park, but its not at those locations of his caches, I am a little concerned that his stupid caches might conflict with where I want to place my stages, (god only knows where those may be) but that's not why I started the topic. He could have used the area a lot better that's for sure.

Edited March 14, 2006 by Tsmola

[+welch]

Basically my concern is that the caches not only violate the rules: code words, promoting a commercial business (look at his website for that) but that these caches are no longer being cared for. It doesn't have anything to do with the silver, or as I'm told, lack there of... but if he's even going to be active anymore. One of his caches is in need of repair already. This is a good area he's got these in, if he's not gonna maintain them I'd rather see them archived so other caches may be placed.

I still think you should focus on the cache maintance. If they have problems report them and eventally the reviewer will archive them if they don't get fixed.

I don't think code words in themselves are bad, you just can't use them in place of a logbook, as has been said just use them both. Unless this person posted some ads on the cache page, or has written 'im doing this to try and get some people to buy my stuff' you'll a hard time proving its commerical. Yes maybe he is giving away free silver(?) with some motive, or maybe he just has lots of them and thinks they make good swag. Proving what he's thinking and why he's doing what he's doing.

The maintaince should be fairly straight forward, have people been reporting the cache been full of water for 6 months? Then its not being maintained for whatever reason.

[+JohnnyVegas]

The cache was Hidden: 9/17/2005 , well beyond the date that new moving caches were no longer being permited. Code word caches have also not been allowed any more.

The odds are that the cache owner changed them after they were approved.

 

Just yesturday our local approver archived 20 caches that were changed to code word caches by the cache owner. The reason in the cache page was becuase of problem with the containers not being water proof (THey were Tic Tac containers)

 

IF you do not want to post a SBA you could always send an e-mail to the local approver, my guess the approver has been notified through this thread.

[+Tsmola]

I know he changed the cache pages after they were approved, there was more of description of the hide for his first cache because I remember going out and seeking it and looking for the spot in the description, he's changed it a few times. While the first stage has always remained the same, it says quite clearly on his user webpage that the secondary will be moved each time it is found. Beside the part I thought they were commercial, that was the other part that concerned me, does that count as a moving cache?

 

I wasn't really sure about the code word thing, it wasn't until I saw one archived saying code word ones are not permitted that I even heard of the rule. The reason I worried he didn't care about the sport anymore is when I look at back logs of older caches there seem to be a lot of people in my area that got into caching for a few weeks, found 20 or so caches then never logged on again. I don't know if this is the trend elsewhere around the country or not, but I would think if he were really into the sport he'd be a lot more active than that.

[+Tsmola]

I'm sorry, I hadn't looked at this user's personal page for quite some time, (the one linked to directly under his name on the cache page) he has elminated all the links I mention above, it took some searching, but I located this page, which WAS linked to from the user's personal page a while ago, he has since changed it.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~freedomfinanciers/

 

here's the geocaching page of that link above

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~freedomfinanciers/id19.html

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~freedomfinanciers/id20.html -note the advertising on the coin itself at this link.

 

He has made it look a lot less commercial than it orignally was before, even his profile I see was changed, at one time it specifically said it was promotional.

 

This should make it a little more clear why I was concerned

Edited March 14, 2006 by Tsmola

[+Airmapper]

I remember when the user you speak of came to the forms. His ideas were unconventional and I think most of it was just because of being an overzealous newbie. He liked caching, and wanted to promote his silver interests, and tried to mix the two a bit more than appropriate.

 

I think all that can be done has already been suggested, wait and see what happens.

[+sbell111]

The cache looks to be within the current guidelines. I would probably look for it if it were in my area.

[+Mopar]

The cache looks to be within the current guidelines. I would probably look for it if it were in my area.

*IF* the cache hider is relocating the final stage after every find like the OP claims, then it is not within the guidelines.

[+Tsmola]

The cache looks to be within the current guidelines. I would probably look for it if it were in my area.

*IF* the cache hider is relocating the final stage after every find like the OP claims, then it is not within the guidelines.

 

Quote from the Silver cache 2 page: " Finding these secondaries should be more challenging than most caches in this area, and they will be moved each time the code is posted."

 

See link...Cache page

Edited March 14, 2006 by Tsmola

[+Stunod]

The cache looks to be within the current guidelines. I would probably look for it if it were in my area.

*IF* the cache hider is relocating the final stage after every find like the OP claims, then it is not within the guidelines.

 

Quote from the Silver cache 2 page: " Finding these secondaries should be more challenging than most caches in this area, and they will be moved each time the code is posted."

 

See link...Cache page

 

I'm reading the cache page as the "bonus" silver-coin location is being moved...not the actual final of the cache (where the log book is). If that's the case, I guess it's OK

[+Tsmola]

READ FIRST: This is a free service. Only caches of a non-commercial nature can be posted through this site. If you wish to create a commercial cache or promotion, please contact us first. Caches perceived of a commercial nature will not be approved.

 

Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

 

These are what stand out for me in the rules, he is plugging the use of the Liberty Dollar, I saw that as an advertisement, he may have removed the links I posted above, but it's still on the coins he's giving out, if you read his threads from a few months ago that others have linked to, he clearly had an agenda then.

 

Another quote, this used to be in the guys profile: "I am the owner of the Liberty Dollar Regional Currency Office (RCO) for Southwest Michigan. I am organizing a PROMOTIONAL effort for the Liberty Dollar..."

 

From this topic For me it doesn't get much clearer than that what this guy is really trying to get out of this hobby.

Edited March 14, 2006 by Tsmola

[+Renegade Knight]

The cache looks to be within the current guidelines. I would probably look for it if it were in my area.

*IF* the cache hider is relocating the final stage after every find like the OP claims, then it is not within the guidelines.

 

Quote from the Silver cache 2 page: " Finding these secondaries should be more challenging than most caches in this area, and they will be moved each time the code is posted."

 

See link...Cache page

 

A secondary for a cache prize is not the cache. If he was moving the cache itself that's a problem. If he's hiding a bonus prize he's within the rules.

[+Renegade Knight]

READ FIRST: This is a free service. Only caches of a non-commercial nature can be posted through this site. If you wish to create a commercial cache or promotion, please contact us first. Caches perceived of a commercial nature will not be approved.

 

Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

 

These are what stand out for me in the rules, he is plugging the use of the Liberty Dollar, I saw that as an advertisement, he may have removed the links I posted above, but it's still on the coins he's giving out, if you read his threads from a few months ago that others have linked to, he clearly had an agenda then.

 

Another quote, this used to be in the guys profile: "I am the owner of the Liberty Dollar Regional Currency Office (RCO) for Southwest Michigan. I am organizing a PROMOTIONAL effort for the Liberty Dollar..."

 

From this topic For me it doesn't get much clearer than that what this guy is really trying to get out of this hobby.

 

Since he has changed his caches to comply with the guidelines he has done what he's supposed to do. It doesn't matter if the coins he's giving out plus the libery dollar gold standard any more than it matters if the swag I give away should have my company name on it. If it's cool swag it's cool swag regardless if it says IBM, Tohsiba, Geocaching.com or any other brand name on it.

 

You said yourself he removed the links, he removed certain quotes. He seems to be willing to learn the limits. At what point will you admit that the caches seem to be within the guidelines or do you need a reviewer to post their interpretation?

[+Tsmola]

I admit they seem to be within the guidelines, but there's still the feeling of an agenda he's trying to push with these coins. I didn't get into this sport to listen to that kinda crap.

 

Since there's nothing else I can do I'm not gonna waste anyone else's time, this is pointless.

Edited March 14, 2006 by Tsmola

[+Moose Mob]

This topic has been brought to the attention of TPTB. It may take a bit of discussion behind the scenes before anything is handled.

 

Thanks for bringing it up.