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Unable To Compete Part Of The Change?


drat19

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Reading and participating in the Remember When? and Finally Playing How I Want threads today got me thinking about this, and I wonder if anyone else changed how they play the game for similar reasons, or if it's "just me" on this one:

 

When I hit 1000 caches found back in late '03, as I recall I was in the top-100 worldwide at the time...it was a real accomplishment back then. I was a certified Numbers Ho in those days, and although I had no hope of catching CCCA or any of the cachers in high-density areas such as middle TN and other regions, I still got a fair bit of ego grat at the time out of being in that top-100, and of being the top-number cacher in the deep Dixie region (LA/MS/AL). Since I was (am) also a cacher who travels to many other regions to cache, I became somewhat well-known in other areas as well, and again this was a nice ego grat, I have to admit.

 

Well, as I've expressed in some other threads, around mid-'04 after a few too many cache runs to areas such as Mobile, New Orleans, and elsewhere that were strewn with meaningless, non-thoughtfully-placed micros, I became officially "burned out" from "micro spew". I cut back tremendously on my caching the next several months after that, and since that was also right around the time that just about every region of the country was becoming saturated with caches placed "just for the numbers", and with more and more Numbers Ho cachers coming to the fore, it wasn't long before I was getting passed up in stats by cachers all over the country, and even in my own region, which I previously "owned". I also found that while I was still fairly well-known among many "old timers", among the "newer breed" I was just another 1000+ find cacher...whoopity doo.

 

I looked at my situation, and decided at that time that I was going to have to give up being a Numbers Ho and settle for being a cacher who caches just when/where I feel like it, numbers be darned. While it's true that "micro spew burnout" was the major factor, it's also true that the other major factor for me was that I realized that the only way I could keep up with the new breed of Numbers Ho, I would have to continue to slam my stats on a majority of uninspired caches, and I wasn't (and still am not) willing to do that. So, I guess you could say that I also gave up because I'm a competitive person by nature, and I realized I could no longer compete, not with the way the game has changed.

 

Has anyone else looked at what I call the "new breed of stat-mongers" among us and realized that it's "conform to the new norm" or else play the game another way?

 

(Note: I realize that my rambling above introduces a lot of topics that could lead to some of the usual angst-ridden debates. If y'all would, please try to keep responses on point regarding whether or not the evolution of the "stat game" has contributed to changes in how you now choose to play the game. Thanks.)

 

-Dave R. in Biloxi, MS

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I have nowehere near your level of experience, but at just over 300 hides, I have already changed the way I play. In a nutshell, I am more selective. There are micros a short distance from my home--I drive by them frequently, but don't stop. I'd rather drive 25 miles for a classic, old school cache than drive across town for a lame micro.

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Although I will still check out a cache's location if I am in the area, and perhaps continue to find some urban micros, I really don't care for those kinds of caches.

 

I'm thinking about changing the criteria for my Pocket Queries now so the only caches in my database have a Terrain rating of at least a '2.' I prefer the caches that involve a long hike to wonderfully surprising places like this Ghost Corral.

 

2117dab5-0b37-46ea-bc8a-d95ba2664afa.jpg

 

or waterfalls like these.

 

FallsBlog_304.jpg

 

:rolleyes:

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This sentiment does seem to be cropping up a lot. In our area, last month a local cacher was inspired to create a cache called "Return to Tradition #1: Burnt Out"; she invited anyone else who was interested to create another cache in the series, which consists of traditional swag-filled regular-sized containers in nice scenic spots -- no tough puzzles to solve, no tiny micros to find, no park-and-grabs. So far we're up to eight of them in the "Return to Tradition" series, all placed by different people in MA and NH and RI; I'm sure there will be more of them once spring starts.

 

There's no reason it needs to be limited to New England -- add your own cache to the series and maybe it will catch on in your area!

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...such as Mobile, New Orleans, and elsewhere that were strewn with meaningless, non-thoughtfully-placed micros...

 

Wow. Not only do you want to offend the newcomers, you want to offend the region as well. Facinating post.

 

Well, as a newcomer from New Orleans, I would put my caches up against anything you refer to as "spew."

 

I *would* but I won't.

 

Bill

New Orleans

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As someone who is more of a hider than a finder, I've noticed similar changes in the sport from the hiding aspect. Though hiding has never been a competetion for me, not long ago there weren't many geocachers with over 100 hides and just a handfull with over 200. Now there are a dozens of people with over 200 hides and 100+ is quite common.

 

I'm sure a lot of this is the micro spew that the OP refers to. I've seen people who hide more caches in a day than I'll hide in a year. I'm fairly certain that these aren't well stocked ammo boxes in the woods.

 

As far as being selective in finds, I've been that way pretty much from the beginning. It has helped keep the sport fresh for me. I still get psyched for a cache hunt and I like that I can remember something about nearly every one of my finds.

 

When I see someone with 1,000 finds in their first year, or with thousands of finds I don't understand how they couldn't be burned out. Many have eventually. I remember when BruceS was neck and neck with CCCooper. They were the first to 2,000, 3,000 and 4,000. Now I doubt BruceS is even in the top 25. If you compare the "heavy hitters" from 3 years ago to now there is quite a turnover. Some have disappeared from the sport, while many have slowed down considerably.

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...

Wow. Not only do you want to offend the newcomers, you want to offend the region as well. Facinating post.

 

Well, as a newcomer from New Orleans, I would put my caches up against anything you refer to as "spew."

 

I *would* but I won't.

 

Bill

New Orleans

Hey, Bill--at 122 finds over 13 months, you're not a newcomer any more. You've been around long enough to have seen a range of quality in cache hides. Sure, "quality" is somewhat subjective, but it's plain enough that some hides are the result of more thought and effort than others.

 

I don't think the intent was to knock any particular region of the country. I'm from southern New England, and I can tell you that we have plenty of "spew" here, too--and plenty of old-timers grousing about it.

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I don't think the intent was to knock any particular region of the country. I'm from southern New England, and I can tell you that we have plenty of "spew" here, too--and plenty of old-timers grousing about it.

 

Yeah, but did he HAVE to say New Orleans?

 

I'm puttin' up ma dukes! :rolleyes:

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BillsBayou....

Relax, my apologies to the swipe at New Orleans! Sincerely.

 

Since you are relatively new, I will tell you without hesitation that back in '04, you could find a 35mm can every 0.2 mile along Wisner Blvd., along the Ponch Bike Trail, and in many other (often of questionable-safety) areas of town. Seriously. Great way to run up your stats, but also a great way to ask yourself, "For what other reason am I here?" A good many of the caching "leaders" in the NO area (well, "leaders" before Katrina; I don't know their statuses these days) know me very well, and they know that my comments have always been meant constructively, in an effort to try to improve cache quality (as opposed to "just drop caches anywhere for the stats"). They also know that I'm always willing to have others respectfully disagree with my opinions. It's not that "ALL" caches there were subpar, but just that SO MANY of them were that it reflected on the quality of hides throughout the area.

 

Now don't get me started about Mobile! There was one hider in particular who spewed micros at "any ol' garbage dump at the side of any ol' road" for the EXPRESS purpose of stat-mongering. He even said, "I just want to see if people want to test their GPS skills". Enough people (not just me) offered constructive criticism of his caches, but he refused to accept it, that he finally took his bat and ball and went home...quit hiding caches. Mobile's overall cache quality has improved ever since.

 

As for Biloxi's caching, well, it's just now starting to regroup since the storm. Myself and several other of the former "leading cache hiders" have elected to leave most of the new hides to newcomers...and so far, so good, it seems.

 

My swipes at NO and Mobile were just honest statements that my cache runs to those neighboring areas **IN '04** were what were finally the "last straw" in changing my outlook on caching...it was not meant to say that these were the ONLY places where this situation occurred (trust me, I p*ssed off a few people in other regions as well with my opinions). Please accept my apologies that you took it that way.

Edited by drat19
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I just ran the Micro Spew Rating for all three cities. I used the first Zip Codes listed by the Post Office lookup for each city and a radius of 50 miles.

 

Biloxi (zip 39530) 59/176 (33.5% Spew)

 

Mobile (zip 36601) 53/190 (27.9% Spew)

 

New Orleans (zip 70112) 253/492 (51.4% Spew)

 

I'm covered in splooge, apparently. However, Biloxi has more Micro-Spew than Mobile, Mr. Kettle. :P

 

However, with 239 non-micro caches in the area (more than either Mobile or Biloxi) there is still plenty of caching to be done that doesn't involve offending the micro-haters in the crowd.

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BillsBayou...

I appreciate that you read my reply the right way and took it in the spirit intended (i.e., you found your sense of humor in your reply). Constructive discussion, even in disagreement, is OK with me. :P

 

-Dave R.

 

P.S. Now back to my original post: Any former Numbers Ho's change how they play when they realized they couldn't compete with the "new breed" anymore (often thanks (or more appropriately, NO THANKS) to "micro spew")?

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Last year we were obsessed with hitting the 1000 mark by then end of 2005. We accomplished that in August and set the goal of 1500 by the end of 2005. We exceeded that as well. What did we discover in our quest for numbers? That we no longer enjoyed geocaching. And quite frankly, we no longer enjoy the company of those obsessed with numbers either.

 

We made a resolution that all caching we were going to do in 2006 was going to be worthwhile for us. No more park and rides, no more logging event caches, no more micros in undesireable locations, no more caching runs to score a big amount of finds in one day. We want to return to the what the roots of geocaching is for us: the nice hikes, the scenic views and visiting out of the way places. So far it seems to be working. We've only logged 30 caches to date and we are having a lot more fun in the process!

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I looked at my situation, and decided at that time that I was going to have to give up being a Numbers Ho and settle for being a cacher who caches just when/where I feel like it, numbers be darned. While it's true that "micro spew burnout" was the major factor, it's also true that the other major factor for me was that I realized that the only way I could keep up with the new breed of Numbers Ho, I would have to continue to slam my stats on a majority of uninspired caches, and I wasn't (and still am not) willing to do that. So, I guess you could say that I also gave up because I'm a competitive person by nature, and I realized I could no longer compete, not with the way the game has changed.

 

Has anyone else looked at what I call the "new breed of stat-mongers" among us and realized that it's "conform to the new norm" or else play the game another way?

 

In a word-nope. :P I have never really cared about anyone else's stats. I cache much the same way I used to play golf, which caching has pretty much replaced in my life. I do it for me, I try to do my best each and every time out, and I do it for fun. I realize that due to a very demanding and time consuming work situation, that I can never truly 'compete' with anyone else who works a more normal job, nor do I really care to. Just like I realized that unless I devoted an absurd amount of time to practice I would never get my golf scores lower than then were, and practice was never as fun as playing, even if it meant missing an approach or slicing a drive which led to a higher score.

 

The only person I'll ever compete with is either activity is myself. I rarely look at the poohbah list unless someone draws my attention to it. I too consider myself a competitive person, but the release during caching doesn't have to just be 'find the most caches' each and every time out. Two or three time a year I'll team up with some geopals and that will be the focus, the rest of the year the motivations will vary with my moods. I like a well thought out multi, and am not scared off by the fact that I only get one smiley for it. If that's the cache I'm targeting today, the competitive urge is simply to find that cache and have as much fun as I can doing so. I've never called myself a numbers 'ho, but I am a Cache Hungry Bastard, and an occasional Icon 'ho. I did log one webcam and one benchmark just to get those icons on my profile; it was fun for me. :P

 

Perhaps the OP gave up caching a certain way because it was just no longer fun, not because others were 'scoring' more smileys, or had 'changed the sport'?

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Perhaps the OP gave up caching a certain way because it was just no longer fun, not because others were 'scoring' more smileys, or had 'changed the sport'?

Well, WG, you know me personally, but for the benefit of the readers who don't: Yes, it became no longer fun when the majority of caches I was finding were (in my opinion, YMMV) uninspired. But the purpose of my OP was to convey that it was ALSO due to the fact that I discovered I could also no longer compete on stats (and still enjoy the caching), and admittedly, that WAS a significant part of the game for me.

 

I'm proud to report that I now cache in the identical fashion as posted above in this thread by AstroD-Team.

Edited by drat19
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Yes - with more caches placed, a fixed number you can do per day, and the distribution profile of caches unchanged, you will do more caches below your personal quality threshold per day, so your personal percentage of low quality caches will increase unless you have a way to only attempt caches above your personal quality threshold.

 

I have found that I am no longer keeping up with local caches as well as I was, and that has a lot to do with my free time (or lack thereof) as opposed to lack of fun. I do find myself in the forums a lot more and I told myself that that's not healthy to go back to geoposting - I just get myself worked up at all the stuff and have to hold myself back from posting - because posting isn't caching.

 

However, if I can get a FTF, I will rush out there to try to get it.

 

Amazon and Netflix have a ratings system working for their customers based on what they previously liked and what people like them liked and it drives Amazon's sales, too. Maybe if we could get something like that: "People like you liked rated this cache XXXXX stars". Maybe it's patented. D amn software patents - now I'm getting worked up again. I find this terrible cocktail of patnews, gc.com forums and NOLA bloggers just gets my pressure up.

 

Terracaching has a system, but it's not customer-experience oriented. No terracaches in LA anymore, though.

 

I don't really know any statmongers in New Orleans - Bamboozle is top in the state, he's a pretty prolific hider, but he's not even to 2000 caches yet. I think he just loves caching.

 

Me too.

 

(EDIT NOTE) Apparently English words like d a m n are replaced with childish words like dadgum here.

Edited by caderoux
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I don't really know any statmongers in New Orleans - Bamboozle is top in the state, he's a pretty prolific hider, but he's not even to 2000 caches yet. I think he just loves caching.

 

Me too.

You're right, Cade, I don't really know any NO-based stat-mongers...Bam would be the closest to such a definition, but you're right, he's not a "classic Numbers Ho case" at all. He loves the game...he's a great ambassador for it. Now, while I, too, love the game, I *was* a classic Numbers Ho.

 

Now, you also know what I'm talking about as to the "micro spew" there that (in my opinion, YMMV) got out of hand back in '04. I remember the day distinctly: It was June 19, 2004, and I made a day-long cache run over there (got my first YJTB too, as I recall!). I ran into AlexM and his wife (who, coincidentally, were also out and about town doing the same thing as me - it was a beautiful day) at a particularly unappealing micro cache hidden near a concrete signpost in an old light pole at an abandoned building (the old driving range...a Bamboozle hide, ironically) along Marconi just inside City Park, and we both stood there lamenting what had happened to our great game. At that moment, I was officially "broken".

 

Now while I wouldn't wish what happened to y'all over there, nor to us in So. Miss., on anyone, maybe Katrina will have an unexpected (and unimportant in the scheme of things, I know!) benefit: The opportunity to literally flush away a large number of often-uninspired caches, and have new (and old) hiders refresh them with caches of more thought and inspiration.

Edited by drat19
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I just ran the Micro Spew Rating for all three cities. I used the first Zip Codes listed by the Post Office lookup for each city and a radius of 50 miles.

 

Biloxi (zip 39530) 59/176 (33.5% Spew)

 

Mobile (zip 36601) 53/190 (27.9% Spew)

 

New Orleans (zip 70112) 253/492 (51.4% Spew)

 

I'm covered in splooge, apparently. However, Biloxi has more Micro-Spew than Mobile, Mr. Kettle. :P

 

However, with 239 non-micro caches in the area (more than either Mobile or Biloxi) there is still plenty of caching to be done that doesn't involve offending the micro-haters in the crowd.

 

Great thread!

 

Y'all should come up to New England. I have been fighting micro-spew for a while, with moderate success. Of the 2157(!) caches within 50 miles of where I am sitting, only 221 are traditional micros, or just about 10%. I've had to be nasty at times, but we gotta make a stand

 

Yes, like the OP, I have lost my top spot to some numbers guys, but all of them have traveled out-of-region to hit high density spew areas. I'll only complain about that if they return and spread the infection.

 

I'm no so anti-micro that I don't hunt them, but my 195 traditional micros out of 2783 finds (7%) is sure to be one of the lower percentages amongst cachers with 2000+ finds.

 

-WR

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Great thread!

 

Y'all should come up to New England. I have been fighting micro-spew for a while, with moderate success. Of the 2157(!) caches within 50 miles of where I am sitting, only 221 are traditional micros, or just about 10%. I've had to be nasty at times, but we gotta make a stand

 

Yes, like the OP, I have lost my top spot to some numbers guys, but all of them have traveled out-of-region to hit high density spew areas. I'll only complain about that if they return and spread the infection.

 

I'm no so anti-micro that I don't hunt them, but my 195 traditional micros out of 2783 finds (7%) is sure to be one of the lower percentages amongst cachers with 2000+ finds.

 

-WR

WR, I knew I liked you! You might recall we met at this event cache when I was in the Boston area on business that week. Great hospitality! (Now THAT'S what's still great, and will always be great, about Geocaching!)

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You know, if you don't like micros you can always exclude them from your pocket queries :P

This thread's OP was intended to discuss how micro spew and its resultant stat-mongering have changed how I choose to play the game. It was NOT intended to be "just another micro rant" thread.

Edited by drat19
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You know, if you don't like micros you can always exclude them from your pocket queries :P

Geez, I hope (I hope! I hope! I hope!) the rolleyes emoticon means that you're making a sarcastic reference to the posters on these forums who (wrongly! my opinion) think that's the catch-all answer to any threads about micro spew.

Not even. Who says "your way" of playing the game is the right one? If you're tired of playing, go home. Learn how to knit or something. Let the rest of us play, and if we *like* micros, we can search for them. If we *like* virts, we can go to Waymarking.com, etc, et al.

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You know, if you don't like micros you can always exclude them from your pocket queries :P

Geez, I hope (I hope! I hope! I hope!) the rolleyes emoticon means that you're making a sarcastic reference to the posters on these forums who (wrongly! my opinion) think that's the catch-all answer to any threads about micro spew.

Not even. Who says "your way" of playing the game is the right one? If you're tired of playing, go home. Learn how to knit or something. Let the rest of us play, and if we *like* micros, we can search for them. If we *like* virts, we can go to Waymarking.com, etc, et al.

Well, if you look above, I did edit my post, but you slipped in before I completed my edit. So, since you want to "go there": I never said my "new" way of playing is the "right way". I presented a thesis of my experience based on what I believe to be compelling arguments, and I solicited feedback to see if it was "just me" or not. You may feel free to disagree with some of the points made if you wish...and you have.

 

Have fun hunting spewed micros. Seriously. I'm over them...and apparently, so are many others. Doesn't make me any more "right" than you. You play your game, I'll play mine.

Edited by drat19
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I've slowed down, but not because of not being able to compete. I was never competing. I wanted 100 FTF really badly. I have no idea why, but once I got them, I became substantially less interested in FTF. I wanted 1000 finds, though I wasn't anything like as numbers driven over that as the 100 FTF. In any case, once I got to 1000 I lost all interest in find count.

It was never competitive for me, possibly because to be even in the top 20 in finds in Florida would darn near require full time caching to even catch up. Not that I would MIND caching full time, come to think of it. But I haven't won the lottery.

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I've slowed down, but not because of not being able to compete. I was never competing. I wanted 100 FTF really badly. I have no idea why, but once I got them, I became substantially less interested in FTF. I wanted 1000 finds, though I wasn't anything like as numbers driven over that as the 100 FTF. In any case, once I got to 1000 I lost all interest in find count.

It was never competitive for me, possibly because to be even in the top 20 in finds in Florida would darn near require full time caching to even catch up. Not that I would MIND caching full time, come to think of it. But I haven't won the lottery.

Thank you for returning this thread to my original intended topic.

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I don't think I have changed how I cache. I have always been one to enjoy different caches under different circumstances and still do.

 

I most enjoy caches in nice places with a nice walk etc. So I have always looked for those first. But I also enjoy caching in groups socially. Sometimes that gets planned around caches that are pretty darn cool. Other times it is just a run through the area and some caches are neat, and some perhaps not so neat, but the social aspect made it fun. That is why I was there.

 

Then I have done a pure 24 hour number run and that was fun for the experience of it and the social aspect. I also like to save the everyday micros for snow caching, which increases the difficulty of them. I enjoyed what many would think were really lame caches that way. If there are caches around that just don't look that interesting to me, I skip them unless I am out in a social group. There are a some of those around my home, a couple only a few blocks away, and I just don't bother to get them since they don't interest me enough. But perhaps if I walk by one with the dog at some point, I will log one. Or maybe I will find them with a social group.

 

With competition, I have never viewed it that way, but don't care if others do. I do enjoy milestones though and was happy to hit 1000 in conjunction with several other people all getting 1000 or 1500 at the same cache together. In the process I had to catch up with a couple of them, which meant a run of drive up micros. In other cirumstances I would have skipped some of those (especially the one under a drain, in nothing but a baggie and covered in muck), but it was worth it for the great day with friends all hitting milestones together! :P

 

In the end when I don't like a cache that much, I still often find that I had fun in some way, or I get a story to tell about it (I still keep talking about the slime covered baggie). I can't think of any caches that ruined my day or anything. But there certainly were caches that made my day. And those were often either because of the social aspect, cool hike factor, or both. It has always been like that for me.

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I wonder what the GeoCaching community would be like it there were NO numbers listing our finds/hides. I'm very new to the sport and I am enjoying it alot. I only have 15 finds and 2 hides, but I wonder what that could possibly matter to anybody. I want to find every cache I go after, thats my ultimate goal. I say Humbug to the numbers! Get me out of the office and out in the field looking for that next cache...thats the fun for me! :P

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As a former Biloxian, I'd like to state for the record that Dave's hides were excellent, and while Biloxi had alot of micros, few would be considered spew. I never met DRat, but knew him by reputation, which was nothing but good. (however, he does rant a bit constantly about micro spew... :P )

 

I personally don't see 'micro spew' as a problem. I've never been a #ho--I take my family to the ones that look good, and I can usually tell from the description. I do admit I can't allow any caches, crappy or no, near my home not be found.

 

Also, crappy caches seem to die out if the local reviewer is good. The hider doesn't take care of his spew, and eventually its gone. Good caches are quickly adopted by the local caching community.

 

Since I'm not a #ho, I don't see the unfair/can't compete side of it. Aside from regulating geocaching (which would ruin the sport), all you can do is gently guide noobs in the right way to hide caches and set a good example--both of which you're already doing.

 

P.S. How's LeftyGator doing?

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Now, you also know what I'm talking about as to the "micro spew" there that (in my opinion, YMMV) got out of hand back in '04. I remember the day distinctly: It was June 19, 2004, and I made a day-long cache run over there (got my first YJTB too, as I recall!). I ran into AlexM and his wife (who, coincidentally, were also out and about town doing the same thing as me - it was a beautiful day) at a particularly unappealing micro cache hidden near a concrete signpost in an old light pole at an abandoned building (the old driving range...a Bamboozle hide, ironically) along Marconi just inside City Park, and we both stood there lamenting what had happened to our great game. At that moment, I was officially "broken".

 

Now while I wouldn't wish what happened to y'all over there, nor to us in So. Miss., on anyone, maybe Katrina will have an unexpected (and unimportant in the scheme of things, I know!) benefit: The opportunity to literally flush away a large number of often-uninspired caches, and have new (and old) hiders refresh them with caches of more thought and inspiration.

 

Yeah. I'm guilty myself. I placed two Katrina Hurricaches - they were film cans - in rather unoriginal hides (but not lampposts).

 

We've got a lot more participants in New Orleans now, and some of the old-timers have drifted off. And since we met at the 2004 event, 30/90 and Big Doggy became prolific hiders, with 30/90 having some quite ingenious "bottle rockets" and "submarines" and Big Doggy with a few innovations, too. The newer guys are pretty interesting, and some are starting to hide.

 

Mausdad and I were talking about it a while back and I think it's just too many caches. We met at the Christmas in the Oaks Run and he had tailed off himself. He's not a geoposter, so he probably won't post his own opinions, but I think he just got a little burnt out. Bamboozle will just go down 500 feet and place another one. I know, I was with him. ;-) We placed one 528 feet from one which had us sloshing through mud for a while after a nearby event. Bamboozle went into his cachemobile and got out a micro and we got a little revenge. You know there are different attitudes amongst locals about local caches vs. the tourist caches.

 

I guess that's really what it comes down to - when you reach high levels of local caches MORE effort needs to be made on the new caches AND potentially some caches need to be archived once local finders have had their fun if the cache doesn't deserve to be a longer-lived cache.

 

The problem isn't really micros, though. It's the impossible difficulty of making every new cache better than the last.

 

So if the question is, "did the numbers make the bad cache explosion?", then my answer is no. People made the bad cache explosion, because they wanted to hide and find more and more caches. People can only cache when there are caches, and people rarely repeat caches. Because people enjoyed caching so much they wanted to do it more and more. But the sheer numbers of caches result in this - it is not possible to have quality and quantity given the same amount of effort. This also explains why people lose interest and wander off, having been satiated, while the addicts are left feeding the addiction. It's kind of a fundamental irony, like you said.

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I was burnt out after reaching my personal goal of 1,000 within my first year of caching. I decided I would play the game the way I enjoyed it. The next 1,000 find came in 7 months and were an absolute blast. I was out there making new friends at events in often cache dense area and enjoyed the laughs with new found friends.

 

It is now all about the numbers to me. The number of friends made, the number of laughs shared, the number of caching stories shared, and the number of miles back home after enjoying the company of other caches in various areas. Those are the numbers that really matter to me.

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I was burnt out after reaching my personal goal of 1,000 within my first year of caching. I decided I would play the game the way I enjoyed it. The next 1,000 find came in 7 months and were an absolute blast. I was out there making new friends at events in often cache dense area and enjoyed the laughs with new found friends.

 

It is now all about the numbers to me. The number of friends made, the number of laughs shared, the number of caching stories shared, and the number of miles back home after enjoying the company of other caches in various areas. Those are the numbers that really matter to me.

This post is telling in so many ways. First of all, the poster started in mid '04 (coincidentally, right at the time I realized my own burnout from micro spew), and was able to bag his (?) first 1000 the first year, and the next 1000 in another 7 months. 'Nuff said.

 

Then, the second paragraph descibes his NEW numbers obsession. Awesome. :P

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I figure that (eventually) all numbers will only be a function of time, i.e. how long you've geocached. If someone starts caching ten years from now, how could there be any competition with people that started in 2001?

This is an interesting perspective...I had to think about a response for a little while.

 

1. If there are cachers who started in '01 who are still caching to the same level in '11, now THAT will be a remarkable attention span.

 

2. I think the numbers will not only ben a function of "how long", but also a function of "when". I would consider those of us who achieved 1000+ finds before 1/1/04 (my arbitrary date of when I believe micro spew became officially "out of hand" in more than just a few areas) to have done so during an era when it was more of a challenge to do so. As The Leps said in the "Remember When?" thread:

In 2002, finding 100 caches earned you a forum thread where lots of stories were shared about epic hikes up the sides of mountains and across treacherous swamps.

 

Now, finding 100 caches is called "a busy Saturday."

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I remember being a virgin ... those were the days. Now, regretably, I just go through the motions. Even on those days when I have a headache, I still put out. Laying there, letting the moment ravage my body until I can no longer stand the pain. The memory of that first taste of sweet nectar ... Dear God, why can't I be 40 years old again ...

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I remember being a virgin ... those were the days. Now, regretably, I just go through the motions. Even on those days when I have a headache, I still put out. Laying there, letting the moment ravage my body until I can no longer stand the pain. The memory of that first taste of sweet nectar ... Dear God, why can't I be 40 years old again ...

 

Are you talking about caching? :o

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or your time in prison? :(

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Hopefully I'm understanding the OP correctly, but no, the new spew has not changed the way we cache.

 

First, I'm hesitant to call it "micro-spew" as there is nothing wrong with micros. The "spew" I'm talking about, while 99% are micros, it's not the size that makes it "spew." Someone called it "trache." I forget who, but the point is it's appropriate because the size could actually be a small or even a regular. These are caches that are placed with little to no inspiration, or are "gifts." "Yea! I got a gift of a smilie! Whoohoo!" :(

 

No, we used to cache focused only on the next cache. We would find a cache and move on to the next one. Most of the time missing a lot of what could be seen just beyond the cache. We have since changed our way of caching. We no longer look for areas of high cache concentrations. We look for areas with interesting caches. There is where we now vacation.

 

As for the "spew," it makes it much harder to find the good ones. You can't filter on "spew." Additionally, "spew" is not worth our time. I've actually held caches in my hand and simply put it back. It would have been a waste of my time to log. I've got better things to do.

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I remember being a virgin ... those were the days. Now, regretably, I just go through the motions. Even on those days when I have a headache, I still put out. Laying there, letting the moment ravage my body until I can no longer stand the pain. The memory of that first taste of sweet nectar ... Dear God, why can't I be 40 years old again ...

Wow--you ignore a thread for a day or two, and look what happens! :(
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My problem is being able to detect when a micro is just spew or not. My original purpose for caching was to have something to do while traveling on business. Even the worst cache is better then sitting in a motel room watching a rerun on TV. I recently reach 1000. A number that I didn't figure on reaching for a couple of more years since cache density in my home town is not that great. It seemed like I got burned out for a couple of months after that, or maybe it was the foul whether where I was working. it's warmer now and I am back at it.

 

I still do every cache that I can get to though I to complain about the quality of some of the caches. I hope that my enthusiasm will continue because this the exercise I get while caching keeps me healthy.

 

:(

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Ware Yat Everybody :

 

First let me say that my friend drat has the best interest of geocaching at heart and he has been an inspiration of sorts for me. This does not mean we agree totally on everything geocaching related. My motto is I never met a cache I didn't like. I just returned from Morristown , TN and while I really enjoyed the trip, I did about 15+ phone booths and 10+ light pole bases and yes they do get a little stale but I would rather have them than no caches to look for...Drats opinion is if thats all you can put in an area ( and it was in this case ) than you shouldn't put anything...I disagree.

We have a rating system and we need to use it properly......if you don't like "sprew" or " driveups" than don't look for 1-1's.......I load all except mystery caches when I travel, I may do a telephone booth followed by a 3 mile walk in the brush. My wife and I take them like they come but we do hustle to do as many as we can. A little reasearch before you go ( email locals as to the best caches) always helps....locally BigDoggy has organized lists for folks to use. Someone once said , " stats are for losers"........in caching this would mean putting a quest for numbers before your enjoyment of the sport ( unless numbers are your enjoyment).....either way there's room for all.

Other than Katrina ( house flood, etc) nothing has changed for me...I still love density, unique hides, and remote locations. I really don't care what others do as long as they enjoy themself. At my desk here at the View Carre' cache the desk informed me the greatest cachers in the world were in the lobby....I went down to meet what I thought were joking locals only to meet TeamAlamo and Degreno......I fixed them up with lots of goodies ( they in turn sent me a nice backpack...it replaced my flooded one) and off they went on a coast to coast trip grabbing thousands. These guys have tens of thousands of caches and it was fun chatting with them ........on the flip side I see folks who find only a few per year but I don't view them any differently.

Re the City Park /Wisner area locally I am insulted at drat saying caches were at every .2 miles........(.1 was my intent and I think its closer to that.) I wouldn't do it everywhere but 30/90 and I made it a goal to do the area in question very densly. I can't tell you how many emails I had before the storm inquiring about the City Park area....almost every kind of micro container and technique as well as regulars can be found. Local folks have to use areas available to them...we don't have lot's of green space, and as far as density, locals want stuff to find. Again, travelers need to use the ratings and do some homework.

In conclusion I HAVE NOT CHANGED, I am the same Bamboozle you have come to know and love.

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First let me say that my friend drat has the best interest of geocaching at heart and he has been an inspiration of sorts for me. This does not mean we agree totally on everything geocaching related.

. . . . . .

I just returned from Morristown , TN and while I really enjoyed the trip, I did about 15+ phone booths and 10+ light pole bases and yes they do get a little stale but I would rather have them than no caches to look for...Drats opinion is if thats all you can put in an area ( and it was in this case ) than you shouldn't put anything...I disagree.

Thank you Bam for making one of my points above that it is possible to disagree on issues such as these and do so respectfully. You know how much I appreciate that.

Re the City Park /Wisner area locally I am insulted at drat saying caches were at every .2 miles........(.1 was my intent and I think its closer to that.)

I laughed out loud on that point! :(

Edited by drat19
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I would consider those of us who achieved 1000+ finds before 1/1/04 (my arbitrary date of when I believe micro spew became officially "out of hand" in more than just a few areas) to have done so during an era when it was more of a challenge to do so.

Naturally, I completely agree about this!

 

There is another factor that makes it easier for new cachers to reach huge numbers quickly. It's a matter of simple geometry. Near me, there are some quite challenging caches that require pretty long hikes. Seems like every time a new person goes out there, they leave another cache. So a newbie doing the hike will be able to grab, say, 10 caches. People who have been around for a while may have done the hike multiple times as new caches appeared, so for those same 10 caches it might have taken 5 trips.

 

The same geometric argument applies in urban areas, as well. That's why the number of finds is such a poor measure of caching achievement, and why I continue to support gc.com's decision not to feed it.

 

It's still important to be able to set goals for yourself, though, to keep caching interesting. That's why I wrote FindStats, which can give you lots of interesting statistics on your finds aside from just the raw count. For example, I recently set myself a goal to get the average difficulty of the caches I have found over 2. It's taken a couple months, but by ignoring all the 1/1 caches, I have made it, and in doing so I have been finding higher-quality caches. I recommend trying it! You'll end up competing mostly against yourself, but that's kind of the point.

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Off-topic a bit, I know, but Bamboozle's view carre' cache is one of the best cache's I've been to. My family has cached NOLA a couple of times, and while some of the hides were uninspired, some were pretty cool. It was an interesting tour of the Big Easy. Bottom line: one man's trash (or spew) is another man's treasure.

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Admittedly, I did not read all of the previous posts on the OP but I am mildly offended. Some of us simply have different goals, more time, higher energy and are willing to sacrifice more than others . . . we are not number hos

 

Some play the game for fun, exercise, the fun experiences of finding new places and the challenges of the hides BUT track progress with the number of smilies and work to grow that number . . . not a number ho, just a cacher having fun who will not give up because others try harder.

 

:) But, mind you - stand still, slow down or relax and you will be in my rearview mirror and it does NOT matter to me and should not matter to you. Ain't this a wonderful thing?

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Admittedly, I did not read all of the previous posts on the OP but I am mildly offended. Some of us simply have different goals, more time, higher energy and are willing to sacrifice more than others . . . we are not number hos

 

Some play the game for fun, exercise, the fun experiences of finding new places and the challenges of the hides BUT track progress with the number of smilies and work to grow that number . . . not a number ho, just a cacher having fun who will not give up because others try harder.

 

:) But, mind you - stand still, slow down or relax and you will be in my rearview mirror and it does NOT matter to me and should not matter to you. Ain't this a wonderful thing?

I don't see why you would be mildly (or any other adverb) offended by my OP.

 

All I was asking is if anyone else has changed their caching habits because they feel they can no longer compete on stat totals with the "new breed" of Numbers Ho's...who are a "new breed" because micro spew has made it such that it's a lot easier to run up stats now than before '04, which is when I believe our game unofficially underwent its fundamental change to more of an "urban micros, anywhere and everywhere, location/hide/cache quality be darned, here's another stat" game.

 

I readily admit(ted) that I DID get some of my motivation from feeling like, back in pre-'04 days, I could compete with others on stat totals, and I discovered that in '04 that I could no longer do so and still enjoy the game because of (my opinion, YMMV) the fundamental change to our game that I've cited.

 

If you're offended by my OP, then that tells me that you see yourself in my description of the "new breed", and maybe you can't accept that some people don't think that's such a good, impressive thing. Don't let that affect your own enjoyment of the game, though (seriously)...as everyone around here always says, play whatever version of the game you want. Just accept that some folks will respect your stats, other won't, and still others won't care. If you ran up your stats like so many others since '04, then a. I respect you and any other cachers for your enjoyment of the game (again, seriously), but b. if you're tracking stats against others and that matters to you, I (for one) am not terribly impressed as to when and how you ran 'em up. If you're looking for others to be impressed by your stats, than by all means, be offended by my post...we will respectfully agree to disagree on how we feel about it. But if you play the stats game "just for you", then you have no reason to be offended.

 

Again in summary, my opinion is that our game fundamentally changed around '04 and now anyone can run up their stats on uninspired urban micros if that's how they choose to play. Enjoy.

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I don't really know any statmongers in New Orleans - Bamboozle is top in the state, he's a pretty prolific hider, but he's not even to 2000 caches yet. I think he just loves caching.

 

Me too.

 

(EDIT NOTE) Apparently English words like d a m n are replaced with childish words like dadgum here.

 

Bamboozle loves caching and cachers. we all do.

I love to come to NO and be able to look for 10 caches within 1 square mile.

I am not a Ho, whatever that is , but I am a pretty serious numbers guy. (I have 50!)

 

Keep it up Cade, Bam, GG, Masdad, et al.

I love you all.

 

BTW, what's wrong with English? :anibad:

and what is dadgum anyway?

 

David

Edited by dh2000dh
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After further reflection I don't think I addressed Dave's(Drat's) thread completely.

 

1. Numbers DO NOT mean what they once did. In early 03 a cacher logged one of my caches and I sat in amazement when I saw that he had found 70 caches....even to this day that's the one I still remember. Folks now log that and more in one day...last week I did 90 in two days.

 

2. I do like numbers......as previously stated , my wife and I hustle. The biggest reason is I can't wait to do another one and see whats around the bend but I can't deny that at the end of the day I would rather have found 30 than 20. In the deep south in 03 caches were few and far between and lots of traveling and walking were required to grab them. I know how Drat feels....gosh, I paid $50,000 for my car and my friend only paid $10,000 for the same car! :(

 

3. As I said previously, all this hasen't changed the way I cache. My personal favorite is traveling to new Cities/States and cache in unfamiliar surrondings where you don't know what lies ahead...you don't really know how much fun this sport is until you leave home. Having a full time job limits your activities.....I hope when I retire I can still physically do this stuff....if not, there are always 1,1's. :(

 

In conclusion , although they don't mean what they once did, don't forget to log those smileys. And Drat, oldtimers in the deep south will not forget you or what it was like to be geocaching BACK THEN.

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After further reflection I don't think I addressed Dave's(Drat's) thread completely.

 

1. Numbers DO NOT mean what they once did. In early 03 a cacher logged one of my caches and I sat in amazement when I saw that he had found 70 caches....even to this day that's the one I still remember. Folks now log that and more in one day...last week I did 90 in two days.

 

2. I do like numbers......as previously stated , my wife and I hustle. The biggest reason is I can't wait to do another one and see whats around the bend but I can't deny that at the end of the day I would rather have found 30 than 20. In the deep south in 03 caches were few and far between and lots of traveling and walking were required to grab them. I know how Drat feels....gosh, I paid $50,000 for my car and my friend only paid $10,000 for the same car! :(

 

3. As I said previously, all this hasen't changed the way I cache. My personal favorite is traveling to new Cities/States and cache in unfamiliar surrondings where you don't know what lies ahead...you don't really know how much fun this sport is until you leave home. Having a full time job limits your activities.....I hope when I retire I can still physically do this stuff....if not, there are always 1,1's. :(

 

In conclusion , although they don't mean what they once did, don't forget to log those smileys. And Drat, oldtimers in the deep south will not forget you or what it was like to be geocaching BACK THEN.

I'm with you, Bam, I also find a lot of my new enjoyment in caching cities/regions I haven't visited (or cached) before. Even if that means a few spewed, uninspired micros along the way, it's a new area to me and I do find enjoyment in that.

 

Thanks for the ack re an "oldtimer's stats of that time", Bam. As I mentioned at the outset of this thread, much as I didn't think it would matter to me, besides the stats themselves I really did enjoy the ego grat of being recognized as a "leading cacher" in my region, and elsewhere, back when I was ho'ing stats. My stats really did give me "cred" when I talked to other cachers, either on-line, when meeting up on the trails, or at Event caches. Many other Ho's of the time didn't/don't admit that their egos enjoyed the recognition...I do admit it. These days, though, my ego's over it and I don't worry about it so much anymore. It was fun at that time.

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