Access To Benchmark

[+Cyclometh]

There's a mark in my hometown- SY3256 which I tried to get to this weekend, but couldn't. Upon arrival at the end of 46th Street (there's no T intersection, I found that a cul-de-sac was there. There seems to be three lots there- or the sign at the end had three numbers. One was developed, with a big huge "PRIVATE NO TRESPASSING" sign at the head of the driveway and a house down on the water. That was on the north, to the left. In the center, a large gate, closed and padlocked. On the right, a small path, no signs or gate. That's the path I needed, as it was heading southwards to the beach.

 

The path is about half as wide as a driveway. I'm guessing if someone develops the property, it'll become the driveway. It cuts down steeply to the beach and drops down past a large bluff on the south side. There's a couple of utility vaults and at the bottom, a board with griptape on it spanning a small stormwater runoff ditch, which after crossing you can just step down onto the beach proper.

 

I went down there, found the beach but also found that the tide was about midlevel and rising with a large amount of blowdown from a recent windstorm blocking access to the rest of the beach. I could only go about 100 feet or so.

 

My plan is to head back when the tide is out so I can just walk around the blowdown of trees and dirt from the bluff above over to where the mark is at. This one's kind of neat because it's a spot originally monumented in 1872(!) and I'd really like to get a shot and rubbing of it. It's about .2 miles from the spot I managed to get to.

 

So the question is, given that this property is apparently private, but not posted so, and there was clear unfettered access to the beach (with signs of other people having been there recently, such as dog tracks and footprints), should I be concerned about this? I could very clearly see the gates and the bulkhead of the property to the north, which had signs posted all over them about not going that way.

 

I'm guessing people go down there and walk on the beach from the local neighborhood and that no one minds much, but the property owner to the north doesn't like people coming on his land. I'm also guessing that the property which has the path on it is either public (unlikely) or that the owner isn't making an issue of people crossing it to get to the beach.

 

I could try and find another means to access this part of the beach, but it might be exceedingly difficult or even impossible without a boat, which I suppose I could also do, but in the end I'd probably still have to enter private, if unposted as such, property.

 

Thoughts?

[+Cyclometh]

Actually, looking at Google Earth, maybe I can get to the site via a different road. I'll check that first next time I'm out that way.

[+Cyclometh]

I love Windows Live Local:

 

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=...Access%20Point_

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Cyclometh,

 

You show signs of being a great detective.

 

I was wondering if the property lines extend down to the beach and into the ocean?

 

Here in the desert Southwest, if there is a gate/fence that has Do Not Trespass on it, then that means that. But, if there is no fence there or a fence with a gate that states "Please close gate" - that is an invitation to enter said area.

 

But, you live a world away from us and different rules apply...please use common sense and do not get arrested/ticketed for just an "old 1872!" mark. If you do not find a way in...it could not hurt to contact the owner and beg/grovel to get access to the mark.

 

Shirley~

Edited March 13, 2006 by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

[+Cyclometh]

Cyclometh,

 

You show signs of being a great detective.

 

Thanks!

 

I was wondering if the property lines extend down to the beach and into the ocean?

 

Good question. I think they do, at least there. For some reason, there's a few private beaches on Budd and Eld Inlets. Priest Point Park, for example, across Budd Inlet to the east has a public beach, but you can't go very far south before you run into a big sign warning you off.

 

As far as this particular beach, the section I want access to doesn't seem to have any "don't enter" signs on it, and other people apparently use it. Near as I can tell, there's nobody living there- unless there's a house at the top of the bluff, which I didn't see.

 

However, it looks like the mark is much closer to Leavelle Street, or the houses thereabouts. Given that it may actually be hard to get to the mark location from 46th or may involve crossing other property lines along the way, I'll probably go down there first and ask if someone's willing to let me walk through their backyard or whatnot to get access to the mark at low tide. It's covered by water at high tide.

 

 

Here in the desert Southwest, if there is a gate/fence that has Do Not Trespass on it, then that means that. But, if there is no fence there or a fence with a gate that states "Please close gate" - that is an invitation to enter said area.

 

But, you live a world away from us and different rules apply...please use common sense and do not get arrested/ticketed for just an "old 1872!" mark. If you do not find a way in...it could not hurt to contact the owner and beg/grovel to get access to the mark.

 

Shirley~

 

I believe that largely the same rules apply- if it's not posted, you're probably OK, assuming you're not being a jerk or whatever. As I said, there's what seems to be 3 parcels there, according to the lot numbers, which I assume are addresses. The north and eastern ones seemed to be "marked off", but the southern one had a path going down and to the south of the gate. On the whole, the southern parcel seemed to be a bit less "development friendly", as the bluff goes right out to the beach and you'd have to do a lot of work, not to mention shoreline mitigation, in order to build anything there.

 

I'll definitely post what, if anything, I find down there if I can access it. Quite an interesting mark historically.

[holograph]

Private property cannot extend into the ocean. There is common law that says that the shores of navigable waters are part of the public trust. I believe that the shoreline below the mean high tide is usually part of the public trust and not private property. The states have the right to control that public trust, so even though it is public trust, it may not be public access. In parts of Massachusetts, Maine, and some other parts of New England, property may extend to the mean low tide mark.

[+NorthWes]

Cyclometh, here in Alaska almost all tidewater areas are 'public lands' with 'reasonable access' (meaning, access 'in transit' - not access to camp out or such) allowed on beaches below the mean high tide line. The exceptions are those few areas with titles patented from the federal government well before statehood in 1959. Some federal property transfers into private hands in the 1950s did not include tidewater ownership. I would think this applies in Washington state as well - so access below the mean high tide mark would be permitted unless the beach is posted. Of course, what folks' perceptions are regarding 'their' beach can lead to differences about what's 'legal' access! Asking the property owner is the golden standard, of course - if you can access the property owner. Perhaps your enthusiasm for the benchmark recovery will infect them with a desire to know more about the area's history.

[+PFF]

Explore your local government's web site to see if on-line records can produce the name and address of the property owner. Often, the GIS Department will have an interactive map which allows you to zoom on a property and then click to identify the owner. (This is done by clicking a small "i" in a circle.)

 

An alternative is the Tax Department, where you can search by property address. And sometimes you can combine the two by using GIS to obtain the PIN (Property Identification Number), which will cross-reference to the tax records.

 

Then, contact the owner by phone and explain why you want to go onto the property. Here's my script. (Take a deep breath so you can get out as much as possible without pausing. But don't rush through it. In fact, speak a little slower than normal so the listener can digest the content.)

 

"Hello, Mr. Williams. I'm a volunteer who helps the state and federal government keep up with old survey marks, and I see from the records that there is one on your property out on Wilbon Road. [Don't pause. Keep going.] And the reason I'm calling is that I'd like to stop by and make a quick check on your benchmark, but I respect folks' property rights, and I didn't want to go on your land without permission. By the way, have you ever noticed this survey mark? It's a round disk, set in cement, and it's somewhere near an old barn and a 12-inch Oak tree....."

 

This has been VERY SUCCESSFUL. In fact, in addition to giving permission, they often tell me exactly where the mark is--or isn't!

 

If you don't reach the owner by phone, having his name written on the data sheet can be very helpful if you are confronted by him or by a neighbor. You can greet him BY NAME.

 

Not long ago, I pulled what I thought was the correct parcel and wrote the name of the owner on the data sheet. When I got to the site, I realized that the mark was on an adjacent parcel--and while looking for it, the owner of said parcel drove up and asked what I was doing on her land. I went into my Script (see above), and added that I thought the mark was on Mrs. Jordan's land, and she gave me permission to search. "However," I said, "It appears that the mark is farther from the road than I thought, and I seem to have crossed a property boundary. By the way, have you seen this mark? It's a metallic disk, set in cement."

 

"It's over there in the woods," the owner responded. "Take a look, but don't cut down any trees, or disturb anything."

 

Occasionally, in these face-to-face interviews, I get TURNED DOWN. But having the name gives me the opportunity to show respect and make a graceful exit.

 

By the way, once you become familiar with various GIS systems, you can enhance your recovery reports by including names or PIN numbers--especially when there have been SIGNIFICANT CHANGES since the benchmark was monumented.

 

I hope the GIS suggestion is helpful. To summarize: Visualize yourself as the property owner, and then follow the Golden Rule.

 

-Paul-

 

The aerial photos used in the illustrations were taken from the Caswell County (NC) GIS server. Note that there generally is a problem with "registration" when viewing an overlay of property lines on a photograph. The property lines seldom match the photo, exactly. Nevertheless, it is a excellent way to get the "lay of the land" before going to the site.

[+Cyclometh]

Explore your local government's web site to see if on-line records can produce the name and address of the property owner. Often, the GIS Department will have an interactive map which allows you to zoom on a property and then click to identify the owner. (This is done by clicking a small "i" in a circle.)

 

Holy moly- the mother lode, Batman! Nicely done!

 

http://www.geodata.org

 

I had no idea this was there. Who knew my county was so on top of this kind of thing?

[+Cyclometh]

Well, I've learned a lot today. First, that the shorelines in Washington are largely at the border of the navigable water depth. Buffer zones and the areas under the state Shoreline Management Act are described as being around those areas, up to two miles in either direction (!), but remain private property.

 

It turns out that the path I was on the first time actually belongs to the Thurston County Parks and Recreation Department. So does the parcel next to it. Most of the rest are privately owned. I've identified the owner of the parcel that the mark supposedly is on, if it still exists, and it is well within the borders of that parcel, so I'll contact that person and see if I can go down to the beach there via their property.

 

Thanks for all the help, folks!

[+PFF]

Holy moly- the mother lode.....

 

LOL! Now you are "armed and dangerous"! :-)

 

-Paul-

[+Cyclometh]

Holy moly- the mother lode.....

 

LOL! Now you are "armed and dangerous"! :-)

 

-Paul-

 

You're not kidding. This will also be extremely helpful if I got the quad I wanted from the USGS for the National Map.

[+Cyclometh]

An update-

 

thanks to the sage advice I got in this thread, I was able to locate the property owner, who has agreed to meet at his place on Sunday afternoon when there's a low tide to try and locate the mark and its reference markers. Seems like a nice gentleman, and I look forward to meeting him.

 

I'll post what I find, if anything.

 

Oh- it turns out that the guy is a civil engineer (or retired, I'm not clear on that) and knows a bit about marks himself! Also, his family, or the one he married into, has been in that area since around 1880 or so. The original station monumented at that location was called DENNIS, so I'll ask him if his wife's family had anyone named Dennis living there back then.

Edited March 18, 2006 by Cyclometh