+TheAlabamaRambler Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) Will geocoins ever be allowed to travel? Will they ever be treated like TBs, with some modicum of respect? We placed 5 6 coins in TN caches this weekend, only to have meriadoc2003 from NY come right behind us and scoop every one of them up. What's the point? Why are we giving away coins to build other people's collections? And what's the point of running a PQ to see which caches have coins and then clearing them all out? Is there any other area of your life where you would allow this? Then why here? Do folks go through an area gathering all the TBs? Then why geocoins? Curious, Ed Edited March 10, 2006 by TheAlabamaRambler Quote Link to comment
+Hula Bum Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 It really stinks that people do this. Do you have anything with the coin the explains how it works. I've been scolded before for assuming that everyone knows what travelling coins are for and that people are just rude. For me it seems pretty obvious... Anyways, we have started putting stickers on their plastic cases explaining VERY CLEARLY the point, that a non trackable is a trade item and worth X dollars, if you don't have something of equal value, don't take the coin, and a trackable is meant to travel, DO NOT KEEP. Don't know if it's gonna help, but at least now nobody can say they didn't know! Quote Link to comment
+thBriGuy Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 When I release coins, I place them in a ziploc bag with a travel bug sheet to explain. I also deface the coin, usually by scratching a small X on the face. I don't remember who's idea that was, but it is a good idea. I will drill a hole through all my USA geocoins that get released. Also, I try not to leave more than one coin per cache to help prevent what happened to you. Sorry some people think that the world is their toilet, and they can crap wherever they want to. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Will they ever be treated like TBs, with some modicum of respect? TBs are released with the hope they are treated with a modicum of respect. You hope for the best. I don't release coins as travelers. That's it. Some people know what they are worth, others don't. Quote Link to comment
SCP-173 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) Are you accusing meriadoc of stealing your coins? I've met her and I know that she understands how geocoins work... Were these activated or not? Edited March 10, 2006 by Vargseld? ™ Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 With tracking ownership can be proven. If they were charged with theft that would be an attention getter. Not sure if it would help in the long run. But it would be fun to watch once. Quote Link to comment
+ODragon Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 We placed 5 coins in TN caches this weekend, only to have meriadoc2003 from NY come right behind us and scoop every one of them up. While I'm not disagreeing as I'm not about to check every log, what is considered 'scoop everyone'? Did she take them to move on or just for her collection. If they were left as prizes then dadgum, she got very lucky, if they were activated, that's an issue someone needs to talk to her about (someone who knows her). But you're correct, they don't travel as much as they should. Hopefully if 1% of every run starts to travel, then pretty soon there will be a decent amount out there. I would never steal someone else's coin... it's theirs, like their travel bugs... They want it moving, it's not going in my collection. It's sad that people do pilfer these objects. Sure, maybe the one they find is sold out but the nice thing about coins is there is always another interesting one they can buy! Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Are you accusing meriadoc of stealing your coins? I've met her and I know that she understands how geocoins work... Absolutely not! I simply said she cleared out the area of the coins we placed - a fact, not an accusation, and only used as an example of why many of us can't put coins out with any degree of hope that someone will excercise restraint, take 1, maybe 2, but not all of them. Ed Quote Link to comment
SCP-173 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I would have taken all of them, too. Travellers should be moving, not sitting around waiting for someone else to pick them up. Quote Link to comment
+BadAndy Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I gotta say...I'm having an entirely different experience than what I'm hearing here. I've released over 40 of my coins into the wild now. I don't deface them at all, but I do give them a travel goal. So far the only ones that have not moved are the ones that I invited people to keep, and about half of those are travelling. I'll chalk it up the the exceptional group of cachers here in Idaho. Quote Link to comment
+FluteFace Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I just released my first coin as a traveler last weekend. I put it in an air-tight case and made some effort to glue it shut -- just to make it a bit harder to get out, but also to try to keep it nicer longer. (I have a hard time defacing a coin, but I just might if this doesn't work.) I put it in a baggie with a bug sheet indicating it was a traveler. My fingers are crossed. As far as meriadoc2003 (I don't know her) is concerned, if it is a fact that she swooped in and grabbed them all, then that is a shame if they weren't logged. My experience with TBs (jeeps, for example) that are prized is that if somebody wants to steal them, they visit (sneak to) the cache and take what they want without logging and without moving the item along on gc.com. If she logged them all and mentioned them in the logs, then I'm sure she would have them and I would suspect that they will be moved along, although why she needs more than one is beyond me. Does she understand that they are activated and that they are travelers? Quote Link to comment
ATMouse Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 From the look of her logs, meriadoc2003 is power caching through TN. She may not have "run a PQ" to locate your coins. Meriadoc2003 is a big time cacher, and well known in WNY. Quote Link to comment
+FluteFace Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) What's the point? Why are we giving away coins to build other people's collections? Hmmm . . . I take slight offense at this since I collect. Very few of the coins in my collection were free. I paid or honestly traded for all but the five 'unactivated' (except for one person's that are always activated) coins that I found in the wild. In addition, all of those coins' original owners know that I have their coins. My veiw on it is that if it's not activated (activation code is included) or has nothing to indicate that it's a traveler either with it or online, than that coin is up for grabs. Anything else had better be moved along as it belongs to another cacher. Unfortunately, it can be hard to tell sometimes. I do wish everybody who releases any kind of traveler, coins included, would include its goals with it. Edited March 10, 2006 by FluteFace Quote Link to comment
+AtlantaGal Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Hey TAR, were these coins activated as travellers or placed in the caches as SWAG? Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) Hey TAR, were these coins activated as travellers or placed in the caches as SWAG? All 6 were activated coins either traded for or found in other caches... but does it matter? Four were in one cache, all were taken; where in our 'take something, leave something' tradition does that fit in? My whole rant here was intended solely to get folks thinking about treating found activated coins like travel bugs. I suppose the answer was mentioned in this thread - if I want a coin to travel I will somehow affix a travel statement, else if I mean it to be a gift I will leave it in the sleeve with its activation code. Edited March 10, 2006 by TheAlabamaRambler Quote Link to comment
+AtlantaGal Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Well, since they're TBs, they're all going to move. I would think you would be happy about that. I have 13 activated coins of my own out there now. All are still moving. Hope to see more leave Georgia Quote Link to comment
+tokencollector Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Hey TAR, were these coins activated as travellers or placed in the caches as SWAG? Four were in one cache, all were taken; where in our 'take something, leave something' tradition does that fit in? The take something, leave something generally refers to trade items. If you suggest take a bug / leave a bug on the TB forum, you had better be wearing your asbestos underwear. I think I currently have 19 geocoins that I've released (with a few more to go out this weekend). All seem to be moving pretty well. They usually don't stay in a cache more than a couple of days before they are picked up, then they stay in the hands of geocachers about as long as typical travel bugs. With the exception of a generic geocoin, all have missions or Travel Bug Buddies attached. I'd probably be a bit bummed if one cacher grabbed all my coins at once (there are a few local cachers that seem to go out of thier way to pick them up). But, I woouldn't put a lot in one cache anyway - I'd hate to risk loosing a bunch at once to a cache maggot. I try to spread them out in time and distance. As long as the coins keep moving, which they do, I'm happy. From what others are saying, it looks like the coins you dropped will rack up some miles on the way to NY where they presumably will spend time travelling. Quote Link to comment
+nicolo Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Well, since they're TBs, they're all going to move. I would think you would be happy about that. ... I agree. However, if they were mine, I'd want different people to take them, not all be scooped up by the same person. Then they'd get a better chance of getting scattered around ( or so I'd hope ). Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 [Four were in one cache, all were taken; where in our 'take something, leave something' tradition does that fit in? My whole rant here was intended solely to get folks thinking about treating found activated coins like travel bugs. Travel bugs are not trade items. It's not a matter of taking bugs/coins, it's placing them after they are taken. Pure and simple. Quote Link to comment
+Colorado Cacher Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Anybody ever heard of the word SHARE?????? Quote Link to comment
+Hula Bum Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 If they were just picked up this weekend are you sure that she's not going to move them? As for one person picking them up, there are two sides to that. In many cases I would rather have 1 person pick them up and spread them out, at least I know they're off to a good start (providing it's a good cacher who picked them up). It's just one step for them. Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 They way I look at it, as long as the cacher plans to move any activated coins they grab, then I don't see the harm. Activated coins want to move. In general, travelbugs and activated geocoins bypass the take something, leave something rule so that they will be easier to move from cache to cache. I would find it much harder to move bugs or activated geocoins if I had to have a bug with me to swap. --Marky - K6FTF Quote Link to comment
+pdxmarathonman Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 If somebody left my tb/geocoin behind in a cache just because they took another tb/geocoin in order to be fair - I would ask that they be fair to me and move the bug. Don't get me started on TB prisons/hotels. If the smeared cacher is going to be placing these coins in other caches, then more power to her. Especially if they aren't just in the next-nearest cache she found. I hope she finds and moves a coin I have placed. Quote Link to comment
+ZackJones Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I have been making replicas of the coins I want to release and have been putting those out. Here's a sample: I will be doing this with most all of the coins I've activated. The only one I've been thinking about keeping is my skirtlifter coin. If you want to log it you have to ask me to lift my skirt Quote Link to comment
+bushwackin' schmo Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Drill a hole in it , put a tag on it and let it be free! Quote Link to comment
ParentsofSAM Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Whne we first started on the 4th cache we found it had 3 TB in it there were the 1st ones we had ever seen. So we took them all. The cache was a TB hotel. After logging it we got an email from the cache owner that said that since we were new we probably did not know the rules but if you take a bug you should leave a bug. That is was not nice of us to come and clean the TB hotel out, people would not like to find a TB hotel with no TB's in it. Since then we have followed that rule but once we left 2 TB's behind and then 2 months later cache was flooded and the TB were ruined I felt bad because we were last to find it and we could have saved those TB. Most of you are saying that it is ok to take as many Tb/coins that you can help along. I am left wondering if we could adjust our TB policy. Quote Link to comment
+robert Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Hey TAR, were these coins activated as travellers or placed in the caches as SWAG? All 6 were activated coins either traded for or found in other caches... but does it matter? Four were in one cache, all were taken; where in our 'take something, leave something' tradition does that fit in? My whole rant here was intended solely to get folks thinking about treating found activated coins like travel bugs. TBs aren't bound by the usual trading policies of swag so taking a TB doesn't mean you have to leave something. I still wouldn't have taken all 4 though, particularly if they were all in one cache. Quote Link to comment
+robert Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 After logging it we got an email from the cache owner that said that since we were new we probably did not know the rules but if you take a bug you should leave a bug. That is was not nice of us to come and clean the TB hotel out, people would not like to find a TB hotel with no TB's in it.<snip> Most of you are saying that it is ok to take as many Tb/coins that you can help along. I am left wondering if we could adjust our TB policy. You ran into an owner-imposed rule on the TB hotel. TBs are not trade items, and should not be left to sit in a cache if you can help it on its goal just because you don't have another TB to leave. Taking them all is a little much, but you didn't know otherwise so it's no big deal. Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 If the smeared cacher is going to be placing these coins in other caches, then more power to her. I in no way see stating factual events as a smear. In hindsight mentioning the cacher's name was improper in this forum, as it gave folks an opening to follow all sorts of trails my questions did not blaze. I apologize to her if anyone somehow thinks a recital of facts is an attack - I am not attacking her, accusing her of any dastardly deed, stating that she 'stole' or does not intend to move them along in caches, or in any way trying to embarrass her. I tried to stick to the facts of an event that happened and use those facts to establish a conversation about geocoin practices. Let's stay on topic with the questions I originally asked and leave personalities (yes, I know I introduced them) out of it. All I am hoping will come of this is at best a common practice, an agreement among cachers that if a coin is activated and it's description page indicates that it is meant to travel then it is not kosher to grab it out of circulation and stick it in a collection. This is really what I was trying to get to with the TB comparison, not that they should be traded one-for-one like trinkets. Further, running a PQ to identify caches with coins and clearing them all out of an area should be held in poor taste, at best. And, taking more than one coin from a cache might be a questionable practice as well. Lastly, what ettiquette can be established for non-trackable coins, where the finder has no idea if there's a mission, if it's a gift, etc. Should these be treated as trinkets, traded one-for-one? Thank you all for your input. I think these are some of the most-often questions that arise regarding coins and should be addressed the same way we (mostly!) came to agree on how to handle TBs. Ed Quote Link to comment
+ODragon Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 All I am hoping will come of this is at best a common practice, an agreement among cachers that if a coin is activated and it's description page indicates that it is meant to travel then it is not kosher to grab it out of circulation and stick it in a collection. This is really what I was trying to get to with the TB comparison, not that they should be traded one-for-one like trinkets. I think one of the biggest problems is that you're preaching to the choir here. I'd guess that 99% of the people here already know everything about continuing to move coins, not take them for their collection. (The other 1% knows and doesn't care, doing what they want). The issue is more how to inform the masses who will never come look at the forums and if they happen to, will never look at this thread... Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 The issue is more how to inform the masses who will never come look at the forums and if they happen to, will never look at this thread... Hopefully this can be the start of that - those involved with the creation of TBs started promoting certain practices, and as new geocachers came along they learned those practices as part of the game. If we can agree on some base practices for coins and 'codify' them in some informal way then those will become normalized community practices. It may be a bit more difficult with coins, as TBs were never seen as sale items or collectables and coins often are, making the task of identifying coins intended to travel more problematic. Still, I am sure we can find an answer that will allow those of us who do not collect, do not sell, but just want our coins to travel to place them in caches with the same confidance we do TBs. Ed Quote Link to comment
+clatmandu Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 What I would like to think she is doing, and what I would have done, yes, I would have taken all the coins. If she is on a business trip, and visiting several states, drop one off in each state, bring one home to my home state and drop it off there, really spread them around and put some milage on them. This would also allow many more cachers the chance to pick up that icon in different regions of the country. Quote Link to comment
+kelly@9 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 The other thing I'd like to point out is that if you're putting geocoins out in local caches with the express intention of having them around for local cachers to find, perhaps the initial goal of your geocoin on the TB page (and included on a printout with the coin itself!) should indicate that the coin should only be placed in caches within X miles of your location. This isn't fool-proof of course, but it might help keep your coins local. And it should be easy enough for you to take and retrieve the coin later and give it an updated goal sheet stating it can travel further afield once you decide local cachers have had enough opportunities to log it. I'll be releasing several of my geocoins with goals like this soon. Some of them will stay permanently with local goals, and others will eventually be changed to roam free all over. Quote Link to comment
Not So Lost Puppies Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I think the biggest thing with coins is that you include a note with it. If you don't put a note with it, do not assume that anyone will ever understand what to do with it. Whether it is trackable or not: If you mean it to travel, make sure that your note with the coin says it should be travelling and that isn't a trade item. Even better, include the actual mission with it. If you mean it to be kept, include a note that says it can be kept. If you want it to be traded for, put that on the note. If you think it should only be traded for items of a certain value, state that. If there is no note with something, you can't expect that anyone will know what to do with it. Forum viewers are a very tiny percentage of the geocaching membership, so very little of what you say in here will ever find its way to them. If you don't let the finder know what to do with it when it is found (not when finally get online to log the cache) assume that they will not know what to do with it. You are correct that running a PQ showing TBs/coins on it for the purpose of keeping those items is wrong. But there shouldn't be anything wrong with using that same PQ for the purpose of moving those items to other caches as their mission dictates. I will rarely take a TB or coin from a cache if there isn't a mission note with it and I didn't view it online before hunting that cache to know if I can help it on its way. If they had mission notes with them, and it was just to generically travel, and I was on a trip, I would also have picked up several of them to move around during our travels. Quote Link to comment
+Brywalker Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) Yeah, I send all of the ones I have activated (I don't collect at all, actually) and 1 has gone dark. The rest are in the hands of people, and I have no idea if they will ever get dropped again. It's pretty sad, but it happens to some of the cooler TBs too. It's unfortunate there isn't more honesty in the community I can understand that some stuff gets lost, don't get me wrong. But some scoop and keep - which stinks. If you get a coin and its unactivated, its yours. If you get one and its activated - move it along! Edited March 10, 2006 by Brywalker Quote Link to comment
Phantom_Dog Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I agree with you 100% on this issue but talk is cheap. In practice this means that any mount10bike coin currently in a collection, that at any point in its history was left in a cache should be returned to circulation. I remember a month or two back that someone had started a thread indicating they had found a mount10bike coin in a cache. If I interpret the thread’s sentiment correctly, this person (or anyone else for that matter) should be obligated to take that coin out of their collection and return it to the geocaching wild. I should re-state that this would not apply to anyone who traded for the coin directly with mount10bike himself. There are an awful lot of people who have expressed their opinion in this thread. How many of you are willing to practice what you preach and take that mount10bike coin out of your collections and let it circulate? Keep in mind all of his coins go out activated and anyone can look at the history of any of his coins if they have the tracking number (for v1 they are 1 thru 200). It is easy for me to say that I would because I do not own one. Quote Link to comment
+ZackJones Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I will rarely take a TB or coin from a cache if there isn't a mission note with it and I didn't view it online before hunting that cache to know if I can help it on its way. I'm just the opposite. No tag = fair game. If I find I've moved it in the wrong direction I try to get it moving in the right direction but I don't worry about it. At least it is moving. Quote Link to comment
+junglehair Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I really don't see how this is any different than if she had picked up all the travelbugs in the area. You can rest assured that she has not scooped them all up to be added to her collection. As one of the top cachers in New York, Meriadoc is well aware of how travelbugs and geocoins work. It is doubtful that she targeted all the caches that the coins were in. Knowing how she caches, it was more likely that she did a sweep of all the caches in the area. As such, she found all the coins that you put out. What better way to put some mileage on a traveller than to pick them up when you are out of town and move them along. If there was a note attached to them with a specific goal that would be violated by someone planning to move them out of state, then you might have something to be upset about. Sounds to me like she did nothing wrong. As for the implication that coin collectors are out there stealing the travelling coins from caches - I take offense to that as well. I can't say that it doesn't happen, but all travelbugs can go missing. Coins are cool looking items that could easily be mistaken as swag if not properly labelled. Quote Link to comment
+Fundamental Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I have placed over 50 geocoins in caches and all of them are still moving. I have no coins in North America yet so that might be the reason. I just sent few coins to caches in USA so I'm really interested to see how far they will travel. Quote Link to comment
+big rick Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 (edited) I am proud of the number of miles my coins have traveled even though I am new to this. I have activated around 20 with over half still moving. To date they have traveled a little over 15000 miles not much but I have enjoyed watching every minute of travel. This year I plan to place at least 2 times as many personal coins in caches as I did my first year. Who knows someday if we all put them out in caches people will stop collecting activated coins. We just need to make sure we don't keep activated coins in our collections that were not activated by the collector. Check out TB1F 24k and still going. Thanks Moun10bike and Green Gecko Edited March 11, 2006 by big rick Quote Link to comment
+zygote2k Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 If you are concerned over ANYTHING you have placed in a cache, DON'T put it out there. Isn't all this discussion on item etiquette just a bit tiring? Sometimes what you think is right is not the same as what someone else thinks is right. It's just human nature. Go find a cache and have a nice day. Quote Link to comment
+Anthus Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 We put our first Anthus Firefighter into a cache as a traveler today. Hope to be putting out more soon. ...Anthus Quote Link to comment
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