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otterbob

Mapsource Topo Junk?

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i will probably get flamed for this but here goes.

 

Is mapsource software junk or am i doing something wrong? The software doesnt seem to show about 40% of the roadnames (mostly seasonal roads and dirt roads) in the software. I have the detail set at high. Even street names in my small town arent listed. When i hover the pointer over roads without names, it kindly pops up and says "road" :ph34r:

 

i know that everyone is goin to say buy the mapsource streets, but i think mapsource is a crock. I have mapsend topo software (for my old magellan gps) and that program lists everything the mapsource topo and mapsource streets lists combined for the same price just the mapsource topo or streets costs.

 

So basically, am i doing something wrong? Do i have to shell out another $100 for the streets version?

 

also, how can i get my mapsource (the 3 cd with east, west, AK, HI) to run off the hard drive? I have to run it off disk which is a PIA.

 

So far i love the GPS (60csx), but hate the software.

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i will probably get flamed for this but here goes.

 

Is mapsource software junk or am i doing something wrong? The software doesnt seem to show about 40% of the roadnames (mostly seasonal roads and dirt roads) in the software. I have the detail set at high. Even street names in my small town arent listed. When i hover the pointer over roads without names, it kindly pops up and says "road" :ph34r:

 

i know that everyone is goin to say buy the mapsource streets, but i think mapsource is a crock. I have mapsend topo software (for my old magellan gps) and that program lists everything the mapsource topo and mapsource streets lists combined for the same price just the mapsource topo or streets costs.

 

So basically, am i doing something wrong? Do i have to shell out another $100 for the streets version?

 

also, how can i get my mapsource (the 3 cd with east, west, AK, HI) to run off the hard drive? I have to run it off disk which is a PIA.

 

So far i love the GPS (60csx), but hate the software.

 

Correct , most roads won't be identified with Topo. What do you get are ..well, topographic features..contour lines, lakes, some trails etc. you wont get with City Select / Navigator. Perfect for hiking. You can preview all the maps in your area before purchase on Garmin carotgraphy site.

 

To run off hard disk, copy the cds to the hard drive and install from there...or do an easy registery hack on an exisiting installation from cd..search in these forums for that.

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Ok, that is what i thought. So basically i have to buy $200 worth of software to do what $100 worth of software will do with Magellan.

 

Thanks,

Otterbob

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Actually you will have to buy $200 worth of software and it still wont be able to do what you say your magellan software can do, BECAUSE you cant run both of the GARMIN programs at the same time and they dont overlayer each other. So you will have to run one or the other, you cant run both at the same time.

 

Cary in SD

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Actually you will have to buy $200 worth of software and it still wont be able to do what you say your magellan software can do, BECAUSE you cant run both of the GARMIN programs at the same time and they dont overlayer each other. So you will have to run one or the other, you cant run both at the same time.

Okay, in all fairness, you can load them both onto your GPSr and switch between them whenever you want, but you cant overlay them, since the screen would likely be an unreadable jumble of map elements.

 

Magellan clearly has the edge over Garmin on topo maps. Garmin maps are basically images of USGS 1:100,000 topo maps. The non-terrain detail on those maps is sparse and dated. The topo info, though, is pretty good.

 

Magellan using a different technology for its topo maps (someone here can explain it better than I can). It is more detailed, although IIRC, many of its contour lines are imputed and therefore somewhat off.

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As Sputnik indicated, the approaches taken by Magellan and Garmin are different. Garmin uses Digital Raster Graphics (DRG) to basically create an image of the USGS 1:100,000 series maps. Therefore their maps have all the detail and accuracy provided by those maps, and nothing else - which means they lack most road names and anything built since the maps were last updated (20 years or so ago in many areas). But they do show the features included by the USGS: springs, fire roads, quite a few trails, etc. Also note that the 1:100,000 maps are metric so the contour spacings are based on rounded numbers of meters. When your GPS is set to feet the spacings look a bit strange (e.g. contours at 164', 328', 492', etc.)

 

Magellan's topo maps are instead based on the Digital Elevation Model (DEM) technology where elevations are sampled in a grid pattern and the contour lines are then recreated by interpolation between grid points. That provides the contour line detail but by itself wouldn't give you anything else. So Magellan combines this topology data with the same road data they use for their street maps (based on TIGER for the original Streets and Topo programs, based on NavTeq for DirectRoute and 3DTopo).

 

If you want to get by on just a single set of maps then Magellan's approach is clearly superior. But anyone who wants auto-routing and elevation data (both good things to have) will need to get both sets of maps anyway. In that case each approach has its good and bad sides. Magellan lets you see all the data at one time on your screen since their street data is identical on both and therefore doesn't cause a problem, but they lack many of the older dirt roads and trails that are included on the old USGS maps used by Garmin. And, as Sputnik said, you can load both sets of maps in your Garmin and toggle between them. I frequently use CitySelect to get to a trailhead and then switch to Topo to see the terrain and trails for a hike.

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For those interested, here's a way to overlay the MapSend topo info over the DirectRoute information so you have all the autorouting abilities of DirectRoute, along with the topographical countour lines of the Topo.....

 

********************************

I was able to successfully use the same methodology as with the original

Topo USA to add topographic info from Topo 3D to Direct Route, with one snag

that I eventually solved.

 

For some reason, the topo lines on the GPS were only appearing at

magnifications up to 500 feet, and weren't displayed when zoomed to .20 mile

and above.

 

I solved this by reverting to the original Topo 4.2 topo3d.cfg file in the

Direct Route MAP folder (instead of the one from Topo 3D). For those who

don't have that file available, here are the entire contents of that file:

 

[bLX0]

total_blx_scale=0 6

lower_scale_index=1

params=2 8 30 4 12 30 10 20 30 20 40 30 40 100 30 80 200 30

 

screen_mesh=10

memory=4 10 40 32

label_mode=2

auto_step=1

 

After that fix, it worked. I compared the topo lines for a few nearby

features on the Platinum screen, and they were identical between Direct

Route and Topo 3D maps (and more detailed and accurate than the older Topo

version and old DR maps with the older Topo data).

 

So here are the steps that worked for me (modified from Alberto Nnajera's

very helpful post):

 

How to use TOPO information in any mapsend program:

 

FROM MAPSEND TOPO 3D USA

 

1. Copy the /MAP/BLX directory (contains world.blx) to /MAP in MapSend

Direct Route program folder.

 

2. Copy topo3d.ini from the /MAP directory to /MAP in

MapSend Direct Route program folder.

 

3. Copy topo3d.cfg from /MAP dirictory in older version MapSend Topo US to

MapSend Direct Route program folder.

 

4. Add the line below to the [PATHS] section of MAPSEND.INI found in the

root dir

(or MMofice.ini for MobileMapperOfice)

 

Topo3DInit=topo3d.ini,BLX0

 

5. Launch MapSend Direct Route NA and regenerate maps to include new topo

data. If you previously had the older-version Topo data added to your DR

maps, you may need to delete the .img files in the EXPORT/IMAGES folder

first in order to generate maps with the new data.

 

*************************************************

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i will probably get flamed for this but here goes.

 

Is mapsource software junk or am i doing something wrong? The software doesnt seem to show about 40% of the roadnames (mostly seasonal roads and dirt roads) in the software. I have the detail set at high. Even street names in my small town arent listed. When i hover the pointer over roads without names, it kindly pops up and says "road" :huh:

 

i know that everyone is goin to say buy the mapsource streets, but i think mapsource is a crock. I have mapsend topo software (for my old magellan gps) and that program lists everything the mapsource topo and mapsource streets lists combined for the same price just the mapsource topo or streets costs.

 

So basically, am i doing something wrong? Do i have to shell out another $100 for the streets version?

 

also, how can i get my mapsource (the 3 cd with east, west, AK, HI) to run off the hard drive? I have to run it off disk which is a PIA.

 

So far i love the GPS (60csx), but hate the software.

 

I also switched over from Mag. recently.

I immediately noticed the Topo software that came with my Vista (Non-C) lacked nearly all street detail in my area.

If you run on the base map only (turn off topo maps) you may notice the street detail is MUCH better than the topo with regard to Highways.

I tried this in SE. TX and it works well.

 

I also used Neo_Geo's registry hack to access the disks from the H/D and it works flawlessly!! :D

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Let me start by saying that I am not trying to defend MapSourse Topo.

 

I do want to point out that MapSource Topo comes with a price tag of about $100 or less. A good paper atlas of the US is going to run you around $40 and then a local map of most given states or towns will run about $5. Now some of those maps can be goten for free, and almost none of them will have trails or dirt roads on them. In April my state will be releasing both halfs of a trail sey and the books will be around $15 each. Now think about this a book of maps, or any book for that mater costs about $1 to print in the large volumes we are talking about here, so where does the rest of the money go? Cartographers, Publishers, Fact checkers and so on. So why do I point all this money stuff out? Simple you got the entire United States with the exception of Guam, The Virgin Island, & Puearto Rico for $100. I hate to say it, but that is about $800 worth of maps, the only reason it is only $100 is that there are very few people that will ever use more than $100 worth of it's abilty, but it is a lot cheaper to only make a full map set than local sets. For me this $100 map set has worked well because I only expected a $100 map set. Yes, it is lacking, but it isn't suposed to be the end all of map sets.

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basically my point is that you have to spend about twice as much for mapsource to get the road name details that you have to with magellan mapsend topo.

 

went on my first geocache today, and it was a sucess! im hooked! i love my new garmin 60csx. i think the best feature ive noticed so far is the electronic compass! several times using gps compass i would notice it wasnt working right. bang, turn the electronic on and it works like a charm. i would really suggest to anyone in the market for a gps to spring for a model with the digital compass.

Edited by otterbob

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i would really suggest to anyone in the market for a gps to spring for a model with the digital compass.

 

I agree, but watch the flaming. :huh:

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$100?

 

You should really shop around more! I got my copy of Topo off eBay for $40. Since they are not locked, you do not need to worry about getting one that has had its unlock codes used.

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I commented earlier that it actually will take $200 worth of software to do what the magellan software does, nevertheless I have a Garmin 60CSx and love it. So far I only have the TOPO software, but I am sure I will be getting a larger microSD card and City Select soon.

 

As far as what Peter suggessted...... Use the city select to get to the parking lot or close to the cache, and switch over to TOPO if you wish to find the cache. This would be easiest if you had 2 different microSD cards, but may be a pain to switch them on the fly. If you use the same card, it may also be a pain scrolling down the list of mapsets and turning the correct ones on and off.

 

Maybe PETER does it differently? PETER can you answer??

 

Cary in SD.

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I, too, am disappointed with the Garmin TOPO software. I purchased this SOLELY for identifying trails in San Diego County (and possible Hawaii, as we vacation there often).

 

What I found out is that the TOPO West map does not seem to include any trails if they are not in National parks or forests! Popular trails in the San Diego backcountry are glaring omissions on the maps.

 

I now own practically useless (for me) software.

 

Look on ebay, soon, for a great deal on barely used TOPO map software!

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I commented earlier that it actually will take $200 worth of software to do what the magellan software does, nevertheless I have a Garmin 60CSx and love it. So far I only have the TOPO software, but I am sure I will be getting a larger microSD card and City Select soon.

 

As far as what Peter suggessted...... Use the city select to get to the parking lot or close to the cache, and switch over to TOPO if you wish to find the cache. This would be easiest if you had 2 different microSD cards, but may be a pain to switch them on the fly. If you use the same card, it may also be a pain scrolling down the list of mapsets and turning the correct ones on and off.

 

Maybe PETER does it differently? PETER can you answer??

 

Cary in SD.

 

You can switch map types fairly easily. from the map screen press menu->setup map->scroll over to "info"->press menu then select "hide City Select". then the only map that will be displayed will be your topos. At least that is how it works with my 60cs.

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Maybe PETER does it differently? PETER can you answer??

Cary in SD.

You can switch map types fairly easily. from the map screen press menu->setup map->scroll over to "info"->press menu then select "hide City Select". then the only map that will be displayed will be your topos. At least that is how it works with my 60cs.

That's essentially how it works in my older eMap as well. The key to making it simple is to press <MENU> again after getting to the page with a list of the individual map segments so you get the choices to just see all the CitySelect or all of the Topo maps (or any other kinds of maps you have loaded such as BlueChart, MetroGuide, or whatever).

 

Cary,

I think you'll find that CitySelect is a very worthwhile addition to your 60CSx. And note that to get both contour lines and auto-routing features on a Magellan unit would also require purchase of both their topo (Topo3D) and streetmaps (DirectRoute).

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Mapsource Topo is fine for what its meant to do and that is show terrain detail. It really wasn't designed for road navigation, but I have found that Topo's road detail is good enough to find my way around in most areas, even though some newer steets and highways are missing.

 

Sure having all street names would be better, but in most cases its never been an issue for me.

 

I eventually picked up City Select as well and really like it for road navigation. By getting City Select to go with your MS Topo its really not costing you $200 to do what your Magellan did for $100, because with City Select/Topo combination on your unit you can do far, far more than you can with just Mapsend Topo on a Magellan.

 

For your Magellan you would need both Mapsend Topo and Directroute to have capabilities similar to running Mapsource Topo & City Select

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Mapsource Topo is fine for what its meant to do and that is show terrain detail. It really wasn't designed for road navigation, but I have found that Topo's road detail is good enough to find my way around in most areas, even though some newer steets and highways are missing.

 

Sure having all street names would be better, but in most cases its never been an issue for me.

 

I eventually picked up City Select as well and really like it for road navigation. By getting City Select to go with your MS Topo its really not costing you $200 to do what your Magellan did for $100, because with City Select/Topo combination on your unit you can do far, far more than you can with just Mapsend Topo on a Magellan.

 

For your Magellan you would need both Mapsend Topo and Directroute to have capabilities similar to running Mapsource Topo & City Select

 

 

In the UK we have had to wait a long time for Topo maps from Garmin, but we got them this year and they include Navteq road data enabling autorouting - perhaps the US maps will get Navteq data in a future update. Comes at a price though - Pounds Sterling 150. Then again nothing is cheap over here. The Magellan equivalent provides very similar topo data but, I believe, no autorouting and it's Pounds Sterling 130.

Edited by KeithBB

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$100?

 

You should really shop around more! I got my copy of Topo off eBay for $40. Since they are not locked, you do not need to worry about getting one that has had its unlock codes used.

 

where?

Mapsource Topo Ebay

Edited by otterbob

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$100?

 

You should really shop around more! I got my copy of Topo off eBay for $40. Since they are not locked, you do not need to worry about getting one that has had its unlock codes used.

 

where?

Mapsource Topo Ebay

 

Okay, maybe not right now, or anymore, :P, but there was one on there for 50 or so.

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$100?

 

You should really shop around more! I got my copy of Topo off eBay for $40. Since they are not locked, you do not need to worry about getting one that has had its unlock codes used.

 

where?

Mapsource Topo Ebay

 

Okay, maybe not right now, or anymore, :P, but there was one on there for 50 or so.

If you find a good buy on the streets software let me know. :) I would like to have that software too.

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$100?

 

You should really shop around more! I got my copy of Topo off eBay for $40. Since they are not locked, you do not need to worry about getting one that has had its unlock codes used.

 

where?

Mapsource Topo Ebay

 

Okay, maybe not right now, or anymore, :P, but there was one on there for 50 or so.

If you find a good buy on the streets software let me know. :) I would like to have that software too.

 

The problem with that is it is "locked", so you have to buy new. You can buy new from an ebay vendor, but prices aren't nearly as good. I got mine from GPS Discount for $106.

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TOPO is NOT locked.

 

$100?

 

You should really shop around more! I got my copy of Topo off eBay for $40. Since they are not locked, you do not need to worry about getting one that has had its unlock codes used.

 

where?

Mapsource Topo Ebay

 

Okay, maybe not right now, or anymore, :P, but there was one on there for 50 or so.

If you find a good buy on the streets software let me know. :) I would like to have that software too.

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Maybe PETER does it differently? PETER can you answer??

Cary in SD.

You can switch map types fairly easily. from the map screen press menu->setup map->scroll over to "info"->press menu then select "hide City Select". then the only map that will be displayed will be your topos. At least that is how it works with my 60cs.

That's essentially how it works in my older eMap as well. The key to making it simple is to press <MENU> again after getting to the page with a list of the individual map segments so you get the choices to just see all the CitySelect or all of the Topo maps (or any other kinds of maps you have loaded such as BlueChart, MetroGuide, or whatever).

 

Cary,

I think you'll find that CitySelect is a very worthwhile addition to your 60CSx. And note that to get both contour lines and auto-routing features on a Magellan unit would also require purchase of both their topo (Topo3D) and streetmaps (DirectRoute).

 

Thanks! I plan in getting City Select soon!

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