Why Don't People Log Their Dnf's?

[+kklems]

As I am anxiously watching a new cache that I DNF'd (and logged as such) I was wondering why more people don't log their DNF's. There is at least one cacher I have run into a few times that appears to not log his/her DNF unless some is with them who also logs the DNF. (I know the cache they didn't log as DNF was attempted by them because they asked me if I had found and asked for information about it) This cacher is not a rookie as they have several hundred finds. If I spend a fair amount of time looking and I don't find a cache I log a DNF. Of the three DNF's I currently have 2 of the 3 were archived by the owners as they had gone missing so I hope my DNF log helped save people some time since mine were the 1st in a string of DNF's. The third one is brand new and now has 3 DNF's and no finds I don't really care but it seems that there is nothing wrong with a DNF.

 

(BTW I did try some searches to see if this topic had been discussed before but was having problems finding any threads as search doesn't like DNF, did, not etc due to length and now I am getting fatal errors when I search with quotes)

[+Latitude 32]

I think that many cachers a little too into the whole numbers thing and maybe a DNF post rubs against the ego. I've read many logged finds that mentioned that this was there second or third try, before finally finding the cache. I feel that a DNF post should be used as a tool to help other cachers as well as to prompt the owner that there may be a problem with either the cache missing or perhaps the numbers being off (on a new cache). I'm in the same boat as far as watching a cache that I posted a DNF on. I've been standing by waiting to see if anyone else finds it before I give it a second try.

[+Big Sky Explorers]

Almost all of my DNF's turned up missing geocaches. Probably muggled. Logging DNF's help the owner to check the cache to see if it is still there. It also helps other who go searching for the cache realize that it might be missing.

[+ZackJones]

Some folks hate to admit defeat so instead of logging a DNF they don't log anything until they can log a find. Me, I'm proud of my DNFs and log 'em all . I also watch them like Latitude 32 does to see if it was just me or if there are cache issues that prevented me from finding it. I'm heading out tomorrow to attempt one I DNF'd yesterday. Someone found it today so I know it's there.

[+jeffk42]

Yep... I bookmark my DNF's to see if someone logs it found after that...

[+MT CatRancher]

I log my DNF after 2 or three attemps, I have looked, got online and found it loggeg by another cacher only to return and not find it. I like to exaust all my energy before I log a DNF.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Much as I have written before in other forum threads herein, We always and proudly log all our DNFs, and I feel that my DNF tales are often at least as interesting as my find logs. It is true that some folks do not log DNFs, for a variety of reasons that I find odd.

[+VO2WW]

I log a DNF when I have given up on finding that cache for one reason or another. Generally it depends on how far it is to get to the cache from the truck. That said more often how far from my home it is and how much time I have to search determines when I post a DNF. Any time I am pretty sure the cache has gone missing I will post a DNF and also contact the owner, was wrong once!!!!

[+briansnat]

I remember one geocacher who said he didn't like to see "frownie faces" in his profile .

 

Generally some do not want to admit defeat, while others are afraid that the owner might think the cache is missing if they log a DNF.

[+Happy Humphrey]

I know that some cachers regard the search as beginning when (1) they approach the cache location and ending when (2) they find the cache.

 

Sounds obvious, but the elapsed time between (1) and (2) is not counted as relevant, so it could be weeks, including several visits. As they are "searching" for the whole of this time, there is no need to log a DNF as the search is still in progress...

 

 

HH

[+CheshireFrog]

Admittedly I don't have that many caches found, but there was never any question in my mind that I would log my DNF promptly. If I placed a tough cache I would want to know that people are looking, even if they're failing.

[+VO2WW]

As said above I seldom log a DNF unless I have given up on finding that cache. I do often leave a note to say I was looking for the cache, did not find it but will return to continue the search. Same when I start a Multi and know I will not get to finish it for some time. I like to leave notes and also like it when people do it on my caches. I think an active log is nice to see on my caches or on caches I am going to look for.

[+Stonebreaker73]

A DNF is very helpful for a cache owner to keep track of things and decide when it is time to check things out. I don't see any shame in logging a DNF. In a couple of instances I have had players contact me when they couldn't find a cache but refused to log a DNF. That is their choice I guess.

[+RebelJedi]

I will log a DNF if I have put a honest effert into finding the cache. If I walk up and leave within 5-10 minutes, I do not feel I put enough effort into it. I need to look for atleast 20-30 minutes for me to log a DNF.

[+Henki]

As a cache owner, I'd like to see DNFs logged just so I know that someone's looking for my caches. On one brand new cache a seasoned veteran cacher logged a DNF. My daughter looked at me and said, "It's got to be missing", and sure enough, it was. (My own brother had logged his DNF, but we dismissed his since he was a relative newbie!)

 

As a cacher, I log my DNFs and add the caches to my watchlist.

[Team Morris]

I have been logging more DNF than DF lately

[+lostwoodsrambler]

I have no hard/fast rule as to when or when not to log a DNF. But, that said, if I attempt a cache and do not get within 500 feet or so, or do a quick (less than five minute search) I often do not feel that my visit warrents a DNF (I'll be back, spend more time/get closer/look at the clue), on the other hand if I spend an hour or more, or if I think I have found what I believe to be "where the cache must have been" I log the DNF.

[+Cyclometh]

I don't even log all my finds. I'll log a DNF if I think it's likely the cache is gone. If I'm pretty sure I just couldn't locate it, I don't bother.

 

I'm in it for the caching, not the logging. I generally won't even bother logging a find unless I need to drop a TB or have an interesting tale to tell. Most of the time I just sign the cache log.

 

Too many people get wrapped up in their find numbers and I find it distasteful.

[+Tsmola]

There are some cachers that just don't seem to log them, sometimes I don't log my DNFs, most of the time I will, but sometimes it just slips my mind.

 

I do wish more would log their DNF's I've got a difficult cache that's been out for about a month and a half with 3 finds so far, I don't know if anyone else has been there searching, if they have they haven't logged any DNFs on the cache. I don't mind logging DNFs, sometimes I've got a good story to tell along with the DNF log too.

[+KKTH3]

We usually log our DNF's online, but we NEVER, EVER log our DNFs in the physical log - sorta runs against the point of it all.

[+GClouse]

I occasionally wait until after a second or third attempt before logging a DNF on a cache. This is mainly because I often I find the location, but can't access the cache for various reasons (most often too many muggles around ).

[TinyMoon & The Pumpkin King]

We log our DNF's with pride because sometimes the DNF log is more exciting (or hilarious!) than the "Found" log! However, there is a "numbers battle" being waged in our area right now, and many cachers won't admit to a DNF as they feel (I'm guessing here) that it taints their image or sumptin' silly like that. Go figure

[+Ed & Julie]

Logging a DNF helps the cache owner know if the difficulty or terrain ratings needs to be adjusted, or if the coordinates are off.

 

It also helps other cachers who search after you know if there may be an issue.

 

Not logging a DNF is just vanity.

 

Ed

Edited March 8, 2006 by The Badge & the Butterfly

[+svekke]

Vanity is the word. I log some DNF's, but if the previous logs all said: Quick find", "very easy" etc., and I spent 20 minutes digging in the snow and found nothing, it feels a bit clumsy not to have found it. I'm still so new to this, and I do like to have more finds than DNF in my log.

 

Maybe, when I get more experienced and feel pretty sure that I ususally find a cache, the DNF seems more relevant. If I can't find the same caches when the white stuff is gone, then I'll log DNF.

[TygerD]

I don't log dnf's because of snow cover. Some are listed as availible in winter but not winter friendly but I look for them Because I'm in the area, and I don't like rooting through the snow. Some are listed as availible in winter and winter friendly but don't say weather they're off the ground or not. I won't mark these as dnf's either, and will try them when the snow is gone. I expect my dnf's will go up this summer when I don't have the snow as an excuse anymore.

[+Cyclometh]

 

Not logging a DNF is just vanity.

 

Horsepucky. There's a ton of people who don't log finds either, except in the cache logbook. It's just asinine to say that people who don't log on the website are vain.

[+Renegade Knight]

Vanity: For people that log finds online that's as good an explanation as I've seen. Some people do work on their image. They want to be known as the great and mighty cache hunter who never misses on the hunt. They want the respect and adoration of their peers. Then to back up their image they don't post when they fall on their face.

 

I've had one great cache hunter whine about my not checking up on a new cache when they didn't bother to log a DNF. When someone else had the guts to post their DNF I checked up on my new cache and it was MIA. The great cache hunter then whined about all the time they wasted looking. I just told them that had they posted a DNF I would have known to look and they would have saved themselves a lot of time.

 

Yup, Vanity.

[+wimseyguy]

was wondering why more people don't log their DNF's.

Because they mistakenly feel it reflects their ability in a negative fashion. Call it what you want-shame, vanity, pride, whatever, the bottom line is they think that we will think less of them for not finding a cache.

Bah-I think less of them for not properly using the communication tools available at this website. Properly logged DNF's help others. They let the owner know there may be an issue, they let following seekers know the same, they even give up hints sometimes to help find the cache.

 

I posted two DNF's last night alone:1- I just didn't feel comfortable looking at that particular location in the dark, and 2-there were too many briars in the cache area and it's too hard to tell what's gonna cut you and what isn't in the dark. Besides cold dark and hungry is no way to search for a cache. So I went to dinner instead.

But I did stop and find one more before calling it a night. I hate to end the day on a DNF. I think less of myself when I do.

[+stormcloud]

I logged my first DNF today. It bothered me not because the cache wasnt there but because i knew it was there and i couldn't find it in the ice and snow. I had done the 60 mile/100kilometre round trip on this one once by myself and again with a friend.

 

I will be back after the snow is gone. Normally i would not post a DNF as like some one stated earlier that the hunt starts with the search and ends with the find. I have taught my kids that in every thing they do that they will only be successful if they are persistant. Some will go to the cache and find it the first time me it usually takes two or three times, but eventually i find them.

 

Too quit after one attempt is like i shoot the puck once and missed so now i better go sit on the bench and let some one else score. Scoring is a persistant and hard work at times. So is finding the caches. If it was about the numbers then DNF are not tracked so whats the big deal. Its about the challange the adventure and no one can deny the feeling of victory when the cache is found.

 

Look at the forums and listen to the comments made about walmart micros. Its not that they aren't good caches its just that there is no challange to them. These are just part of the numbers game but they are disappointing there is no real sense of victory or accomplishment. That being said they serve a purpose and are needed in the sport.

[Trail bandit_blood hound]

I think because of the number i think they just want to look good

[+ODragon]

Too quit after one attempt is like i shoot the puck once and missed so now i better go sit on the bench and let some one else score. Scoring is a persistant and hard work at times. So is finding the caches.

Assuming you're making a hockey analogy and I'm understanding hockey correctly, I think you may be looking at it in not the intended way. I think the proper analogy would be: You take a penalty shot, you get it, you log a find, you don't get it, and you log a dnf. You may have the opportunity to try again in the game or you may not. (Many of mine were when I was on my road trip across country. I have no idea how many I’ll actually be able to get back to). You're one attempt at the penality shot isn't giving up and calling it quits. It's one of many shots you have in a game and should be mentioned.

 

I’ve logged almost 1500 hundred finds in 14 of states and have logged 121 dnf. I log dnfs on caches I’ve found before if they’re missing when I go back with someone else.

 

Your dnf isn’t you quitting, it’s you didn’t find it. If you go home without signing that book, you didn’t find it. It is also a courtesy to the owner and the next person who goes looking for it to let them know it might not be there and might not be available. Of those 121 dnf, about 20 (17%) turned out to be missing and were archived. 37 of that 121 (31%) were actually missing and had to be replaced. This alone shows that almost 1/2 the time for me, a DNF if the proper course of action. I’m betting it’s true for most people also.

[+Team Snoopy]

I just logged a DNF this weekend. I feel more dumb about it than anything. I know the cache is there, someone found it the day before. But we just could not find it. We searched for about 15 minutes before the rains came pouring in and we had to give up. I logged the DNF just to say hey, we tried and we'll be back. I think it was a valid DNF. I don't like seeing DNF's where people don't even get to the cache spot and log it as a dnf because they ran out of time, or got hungry or something else where they didn't even try and find it.

[+scavok]

I only log the DNFs if I feel defeated. Maybe I'm wrong or just to new to know the difference. But if I go out and try to find a micro while its snowing at midnight and don't find it I won't log it. If I go out and search for half an hour for a tough cache and don't find it, then I log it.

 

No?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

 

Not logging a DNF is just vanity.

 

Horsepucky. There's a ton of people who don't log finds either, except in the cache logbook. It's just asinine to say that people who don't log on the website are vain.

 

I suspect that there may an error here in your perception. No one claimed that folks who don't log on the website are vain. Rather, the poster to whom you were responding simply stated his opinion that folks who (normally file find logs on the website and) do not file DNFs are vain. I agree with that poster to some extent. I suspect that for many folks who file find logs but who fail to file DNFs, it is vanity, i.e., the ego wants to look good. Of course, there are, to me, many valid reasons for not filing a DNF as well, unless the cache hunter wishes to share their DNF tale on the listing page just for the joy of it. A typical reason for not filing a DNF, from my point of view, might be in a case where the cache hunter searched only very briefly for the cache in light of the D/T rating, perhaps because of hunger, impending darkness, impending storm, cold, fatigue, etc.; in other words, a case where the hunter called off the search prematurely in light of the D/T rating. An example might be calling off a search for a Difficulty 4 cache afer only a half-hour, or a search for a Difficulty 5 cache after only one or two hours. On the other hand, even such a permaturely aborted hunt might be good fodder for a great DNF tale!

 

For me, I file DNFs faithfully, and I put every bit as much heart, care and joy into my DNF logs as I put into my find logs.

 

Some of my DNFs turn out to be missing caches and some turn out to be caches that were there but I just could not find; I seem to have a particularly hard time finding caches in the 1/1 and 2/2 D/T range. Recently, on a trip to the Houston area, I filed DNFs on three caches. For two of them, one a 2.5/3 backcountry cache and one a 1/1 urban micro, the owners went out in the next few days and discovered the caches were MIA. The third one was disabled days later by the owner, although she/he did not reveal whether the cache (a 1/1 urban micro) was missing or simply had other problems. On the other hand, on a trip two months earlier to New York State, I filed a DNF on a backcountry cache (Kodak Moment, GCNDN7) high up in the Shawangunk mountains. I learned when I returned home that someone had found the cache a day earlier, and over the next month the cache was found by six more finders, some of them relative newbies. And, I regularly file DNFs on 1/1 urban caches that are found the next day by other cachers. Regardless, it is all fun for me, and I put just as much energy and attention into my DNF logs as I do for my find logs.

Edited March 15, 2006 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+bottlecap]

I will not log a DNF until I give up! As long as I'm still looking it is not a DNF, it is a DNFY (did not find yet). I've been persistant with caches and eventually found them!

Edited March 16, 2006 by bottlecap

[haber]

There's an urban micro close to my office. I've gone out on a couple of lunch hours searching for it but haven't found it yet. (Also trying to be subtle with the lunch time crowd around). I haven't given up, and people have found it recently so I doubt it's missing, so don't see the point of a DNF.

 

But after reading this thread, a note explaining all the humourous pains I've gone to so far might be in order. Now if only I can write the story without giving spoilers...

[+hndlbr]

I like to log my dnf's because it keeps me humble. I got credit for a six stage multi because I found 5 only to realize that owner had archived the cache and removed the ammo box before I arrived. When I posted dnf the owner gave me a find. I also spend a lot of time and effort into hiding some pretty difficult caches and like to see if they are as hard as I think they are.

[+Alibags]

I have recently heard of a cacher who deletes DNFs on their caches, because it 'might put people off'!!

[+Ed_S]

I feel no need to log DNFs. If I think a cache is missing, I'll email the owner. What's the difference if the owner gets an email reporting a logged DNF or an email reporting the cache not being found? If there is a difference, it's that a personal email can contain more information regarding where the seeker was looking, landmarks, photos, and other details that would be considered spoilers if posted publicly. So the owner can make a better decision on whether it's really missing or not.

 

If someone wants to post a DNF, I'd never tell them not to. There are some entertaining stories to be found in some DNF logs. But do I, as a cache owner, get some benefit from being notified of a DNF that I wouldn't get from a personal email? Nope. Do I, as a cache seeker, gain some benefit from posting a DNF that I wouldn't get from sending a personal email? Nope.

[+kklems]

I feel no need to log DNFs. If I think a cache is missing, I'll email the owner. What's the difference if the owner gets an email reporting a logged DNF or an email reporting the cache not being found? If there is a difference, it's that a personal email can contain more information regarding where the seeker was looking, landmarks, photos, and other details that would be considered spoilers if posted publicly. So the owner can make a better decision on whether it's really missing or not.

 

If someone wants to post a DNF, I'd never tell them not to. There are some entertaining stories to be found in some DNF logs. But do I, as a cache owner, get some benefit from being notified of a DNF that I wouldn't get from a personal email? Nope. Do I, as a cache seeker, gain some benefit from posting a DNF that I wouldn't get from sending a personal email? Nope.

 

Can't believe this thread is still open . You might not benefit from posting the DNF for that cache but other cachers after you might gain. If people spend a fair amount of time looking for a cache and can't find it and the last several cachers have all posted DNF's it is possible that the cache is missing so people wont waste as mush time looking for it. You have to take into account the cachers level of experience and also the difficulty listed on the cache page but if 3 or 4 experienced cachers have logged a DNF on 1/1 then it would be a safe bet that the cache is moved or muggled.

 

I also agree with emailing the cacher owner if the cache appears to be missing but if the cacher is out of town, the cache is in a remote area, not an active cacher etc it might take them several weeks to find out what the status of the cache is. If we all don't bother logging DNF's than many people might waste time looking for a cache that was not there.

[+Ed_S]

Can't believe this thread is still open . You might not benefit from posting the DNF for that cache but other cachers after you might gain. If people spend a fair amount of time looking for a cache and can't find it and the last several cachers have all posted DNF's it is possible that the cache is missing so people wont waste as mush time looking for it. You have to take into account the cachers level of experience and also the difficulty listed on the cache page but if 3 or 4 experienced cachers have logged a DNF on 1/1 then it would be a safe bet that the cache is moved or muggled.

 

I also agree with emailing the cacher owner if the cache appears to be missing but if the cacher is out of town, the cache is in a remote area, not an active cacher etc it might take them several weeks to find out what the status of the cache is. If we all don't bother logging DNF's than many people might waste time looking for a cache that was not there.

 

If the last one or two people looking have posted DNFs, I still look anyway. I just figure it's a more challenging hide. I don't know anyone who will avoid a cache because the last seeker couldn't find it. If the last several people have posted DNFs, the cache owner should have been out to check on his cache! So again it doesn't matter HOW the owner was notified, but rather that he WAS notified. I guess I'm expecting others to abide by my standards, though. If I get more than a couple notices (email or DNF or note or whatever) that the cache may be missing, I go look, and post a note if it's there. I archive the cache until I can make repairs if it's gone.

 

I also have to observe that a lot of people think like I do, but they choose not to discuss it. Look how many people post, when a new type of hide comes along in a given area, that they found it on their second or third trip to the site. So just because there aren't a number of DNFs posted is no reason to not email the owner suggesting that the cache might not be there. The number (or lack thereof) of DNFs is in no way indicative of the number of people who couldn't find the cache.

 

And here's a question for you and the others who do log DNFs - when you do go back and find the cache, do you remove/delete your DNF, since you have now found the cache?

[+jeffk42]

And here's a question for you and the others who do log DNFs - when you do go back and find the cache, do you remove/delete your DNF, since you have now found the cache?

 

Nope. I leave them in. If I DNF and then find it a week later... Well, I still DNF'ed the first time, so it's still a valid log.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

And here's a question for you and the others who do log DNFs - when you do go back and find the cache, do you remove/delete your DNF, since you have now found the cache?

 

Nope. I leave them in. If I DNF and then find it a week later... Well, I still DNF'ed the first time, so it's still a valid log.

 

Same here -- we always leave the older DNF logs in place. They form a valuable record, and often contain fun stories!

[+NoLemon]

I have recently heard of a cacher who deletes DNFs on their caches, because it 'might put people off'!!

 

I have experience with a cacher like that. The cache in question is a micro in a cemetery. The coords take you to the middle of a 4-way intersection. Each corner has either trees, bushes, benches or other items where a micro could be hid. On the day I was there, there was 5" of snow on the ground and 18" - 36" snow piles along the roads from the plowing. After about 5 minutes of searching without even knowing what kind of container I was looking for, I decided I wasn't having fun and moved on. Since I always log my DNFs, I logged this one and basically said what I just wrote here.

 

She deleted my DNF with no explanation and would not respond to my email. When someone else called her on deleting my DNF, she posted a note to the cache that lied and said DNFs were always welcome. So, I re-entered the DNF. She then deleted the new DNF and deleted all my finds on her other caches I had found (5 finds). Finally she responded saying she didn't like my DNF and that I was being "nasty" when I said I wasn't having fun.

 

All 30+ of her caches are now on my ignore list.

[+principal]

Gee...I always log my DNFs as I thought that it would be helpful for a cache that is missing or has been moved. It does bother my perfectionist ego, but whatever!

[+gazooks]

I've had two DNF's and logged both.

 

The first was actually a missing cache where a previous cacher had taken the cache home to dry it out. I spent a hour trying to find as I knew I was in the right place !! D'oh.

 

The second was the wrong co-ords calculated on a multi.

[+Klutzy_Troll]

Maybe its just me and my newness to the sport but...

 

Although I agree with several of the posts here, I go out searching for caches for my own enjoyment. period. If I find it great, if I dont well its beat me for the time being. I log whether I find them or if they turn out to be a dnf. If I come up with a dnf, I will go back and search again but I will log it. I guess if people want to be in it for the number race and do decide that they dont want a dnf to tarnish their "score", well then so be it for them. It's not why I go out. Perhaps the ones who get bent out of shape when you call it vanity or pride are the same ones who are afraid of tarnishing their numbers. Afterall, as humans we tend to get defensive when something negative is pointed out in our character.

As for loggin dnf's for the owners benefit, I can understand the importance of notifying the owners of possible issues and agree with that, but, it is also the owners resposability to check it regularly, not wait for several dnf's. Around here, there are several people that know each other on a personal basis and from reading logs I can guess that they have checked out the accuracy of each others caches. What better way to meet up with fellow goecachers in your area. As for me, I will continue to report my dnf's and enjoy the sport as its intended. With so many people involved and no real "rules" on whether to log or when to log a dnf, its near impossible to get us all on the same page.

[+Team JSAM]

I always log all my DNF I think it helps when lots of people dont find might be a sign that the cache is MIA or really well hidden. Also its fun to log a DNF and then find it the next day and log it in. Or even better have like 2 or 3 DNF logs and go and find it the first time.

Edited March 31, 2006 by jsamfam

[+RustyBeerCan]

I log my DNF sparingly

Alot of the caches around here require hours of hiking to get to the cache.

Or miles of bumpy roads to get close.

If I go that far I will spend hours searching to find it!

 

One time I put in the wrong coordinates and was off by 5 miles!

and logged it as a DNF, But made it clear in the log that I was stupid,

I finally gave up when all my AA batteries were dead (flashlight and gps)

 

Any ways I'll search long and hard before I log a DNF

then E-mail the cache owner begging for hints

[+Ed_S]

Gee...I always log my DNFs as I thought that it would be helpful for a cache that is missing or has been moved. It does bother my perfectionist ego, but whatever!

 

Now is there any need for that attitude?