Military Reservations

[+BASSETSLAVE]

The guidelines under Off-Limit (Physical Caches) states that "Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following":

 

Caches near or on military reservations.

 

What is considered near?

Bassetslave

[Keystone]

The answer to your question will depend on the individual location. As a general guideline, "near" would include a security perimeter "buffer zone" surrounding the off limits area, whether it be a military base, an airport, a school or other off-limits location. The size of that buffer zone will vary depending on terrain, urban vs. rural, nature of the facility, nature of the hiding place, etc. For example, a town park that's adjacent to a military base might be viewed differently than vacant land.

 

One other rule of thumb: If the searching geocacher can be observed by security personnel from the off limits location, then it's too close.

[+briansnat]

I'd say near entrances, next to fences or any spot that might draw the attention of base security.

[+BillsBayou]

Wear something suspicious and stand in your selected location for an hour at 8am, noon, and 5pm, on a work day, the whole while staring at your GPS muttering to yourself.

 

If you're harassed or arrested, you'll have your answer.

 

If you already think you'd be harrassed or arrested, it's too close.

 

If you say to yourself "I DARE them to arrest me. I'll sue them for civil rights violations if they do." You're too close.

 

If we see you on the local news with a SWAT team bearing down on you, let us know in advance so we can TIVO the event and post it here.

[+Scare Force One]

I live within 200 feet of a milatary instalation and even our small residental street seems to be a bit to close. When i was very young me and my sister would often play in the back yard of our house. To this day if you sit on our swing set in our back yard you can see thew base personel/ sucrity watching you.

[+BASSETSLAVE]

The answer to your question will depend on the individual location. As a general guideline, "near" would include a security perimeter "buffer zone" surrounding the off limits area, whether it be a military base, an airport, a school or other off-limits location. The size of that buffer zone will vary depending on terrain, urban vs. rural, nature of the facility, nature of the hiding place, etc. For example, a town park that's adjacent to a military base might be viewed differently than vacant land.

 

One other rule of thumb: If the searching geocacher can be observed by security personnel from the off limits location, then it's too close.

 

I am not sure what you are referring to as a buffer zone.

 

Fort Knox is a large reservation that it in at least three counties. There is no telling how many miles of large fences are around the main part of the post... The main part of post is well marked and defined by entrance gates that would not be appropriate for cache placement due to guards, training areas where there is a lot of troop movement or in or around any area where there is a range. But on the other hand there is a lot of acreage that is not used for training or training is infrequent. We also have at least three areas that have public parks that are owned by the towns or cities that borders next to the post, with no real defined boundries, Saunders Springs and Otter Creek Park are prime examples, These areas have caches in them.

I presently have three caches on hold because of the following reasons;

 

1. Caches two close to a military reservation.

2. Cache 0.13 miles too close to one of the new caches

3. Perceived agenda caches. From another cache that was archived.

I am presently dealing with the last two problems.

 

Let me give an idea of where the caches were set.

 

County road 313 is a connector road between 31 W and I 65. The left side of the road heading to I-65 is bordered on the left by Fort Knox with a well defined fence and signs that say Government Property No Trespassing. There ia a cache set in a stump by the fence. There is approximately 200 feet or more to the edge of the road. The right hand side, where the other two caches are set is bordered by private property, also marked no trespassing, not confirmed yet on one of the caches wheter or not it is bordered against Fort Knox. The distance to the road is about the same. All three caches are set on a bluff overlooking the road.

The wooded area on the Fort Knox side of the fence has at least 100 acres or more distance between the main road and 313. This area is rarely used for training. The only time a question would arise if a cacher ran into a Game Warden or MP or even a unit that may be in the area.

 

I plan on archiving the cache as set on the fence line bordering Fort Knox,( left side ), because it maybe to close. I am going to request that the second cache, (right hand side) be posted and the third cache when I confirm that it is not next to Fort Knox. I posted a reviewer note that two of the caches were close to Ft Knox so don’t cross the fence. That may not be true for one of the caches.

 

Would the land between the Fort Knox fence and 313 be the buffer zone that you are referring to?

 

The land that 313 is on was at one time on Fort Knox. Would that make a difference?

 

Thanks

Basset

[Keystone]

Thanks for letting us know the real reason for why you started your thread. It is always good to have all the relevant information.

 

I took a look at your caches and examined the online maps. One cache shows up within the marked border of Fort Knox. The other two -- the ones placed really close together "just because you can" -- show up at approximately 100 feet and 250 feet from the marked border of Fort Knox.

 

I can certainly see why your reviewer might have questioned these locations.

 

If there are mitigating facts then you ought to be having that discussion with your reviewer. As it stands, I would certainly regard the caches as being "at or near" military bases.

[+Lil Devil]

Who owns the land? You did get permission from the landowner or manager to put the caches there, right?

[+BASSETSLAVE]

Thanks for letting us know the real reason for why you started your thread. It is always good to have all the relevant information.

 

I took a look at your caches and examined the online maps. One cache shows up within the marked border of Fort Knox. The other two -- the ones placed really close together "just because you can" -- show up at approximately 100 feet and 250 feet from the marked border of Fort Knox.

 

I can certainly see why your reviewer might have questioned these locations.

 

If there are mitigating facts then you ought to be having that discussion with your reviewer. As it stands, I would certainly regard the caches as being "at or near" military bases.

 

Thanks for the second opinion. I will archive the caches as soon as I get finished with my reply.

 

Basset

[+The Canning Clan]

keep in mind too that a fence line doesn't necessarily delineate the property line. They are usually inside the property line

[PCFrog]

I live within 200 feet of a milatary instalation and even our small residental street seems to be a bit to close. When i was very young me and my sister would often play in the back yard of our house. To this day if you sit on our swing set in our back yard you can see thew base personel/ sucrity watching you.

 

 

That’s because they were bored and hand nothing else to do.

[+SgtSue]

Military Reservations have shrunk in many areas, even though maps still show the area as part of that Post or Base. A prime example is I-77 and Ft Jackson. MapSource, MapSend, and MS Streets and Trips all show I-77 as well as multiple businesses and a church as being located within the boundaries of the fort. This area was once part of the training area for basic training, but once the route for I-77 was determined everything to the "outside" of I-77 was no longer part of the fort (sold I would assume). Older maps will show the base extending even further out in that and other directions. There are multiple housing developments in the local area that are located on what was once part of the fort. This is a good example where a local volunteer who knows the area could be helpful in determining if published maps are accurate.

[+Muddler]

According to Google there are 3.5 million square miles in the US. If you put caches no closer then 0.10 miles to an adjacent cache, you could put (very roughly) 81 caches per square mile. That would be over 280 million caches in the US. Now if we round down for areas of water and Military related locations and other what nots, we should be able to find say roughly 200 million locations to locate a cache that are located within the allowable hiding places under the current guidelines.

If you care to take exception to the calculations you are missing the point.

[+Glenn]

Military Reservations have shrunk in many areas, even though maps still show the area as part of that Post or Base. A prime example is I-77 and Ft Jackson. MapSource, MapSend, and MS Streets and Trips all show I-77 as well as multiple businesses and a church as being located within the boundaries of the fort. This area was once part of the training area for basic training, but once the route for I-77 was determined everything to the "outside" of I-77 was no longer part of the fort (sold I would assume). Older maps will show the base extending even further out in that and other directions. There are multiple housing developments in the local area that are located on what was once part of the fort. This is a good example where a local volunteer who knows the area could be helpful in determining if published maps are accurate.

 

Same thing happened in Hawaii with NAS Barbers Point. Guards were taken off the gate and a large portion of the base was turned over to the state. Now there are caches that are accroding to "all the maps" well inside the boundries of the base. But that is what the note to reviewer field is all about when you submit a cache page for listing.

[+Confucius' Cat]

one of our local military reservations is now a state park, maps may or may not be updated

Edited March 5, 2006 by Confucius' Cat

[+Wacka]

The Alameda NAS is now open to the public and has several caches in it. Houses are being built and many companies are opening there.

The highway scenes for the MatrixII were filmed there and the TV show Mythbusters does a lot of their large "experiments" there.