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Slammer180

Wyoming Coins?

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Well, I checked my Paypal history and looks like I sent payment in reference to an actual bill from the guy. The bill which I paid is inclusive of 60 cents for shipping. Maybe I am not correct, but I believe that to bill for and take those fees without providing the product is considered mail fraud by the USPS. I am not sure what limitations they have though. I do plan on finding out tomorrow.

It is only fraud to the Postal Inspectors if the invoice was thru the Postal Systtem and you paid via the postal system. It my be fraud to a Magistrate via Paypal but not to the Postal inspectors. Just because he accepted monies with the expresses intent the money was for shipping, he didn't acctually ship anything via the Postal System.

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Being fairly calm about this because I thought that I did not order, but I did. Has anyone contacted PayPal about this?

 

Yes, if you scroll back up. I did submit a complaint to paypal about this, but they have a 45 day period that you have to file within. Naturally 45 days wasn't the extreme on waiting for a coin. Now that we've progressed into almost 4 months of waiting, I guess we are SOL with Paypal. The correspondance that I got back from them was that my complaint would be placed in his "file." Who knew it would take for freaking ever to get the coins.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Here's the link to my previous post: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...8entry2101378

Edited by The Blind Acorn

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Being fairly calm about this because I thought that I did not order, but I did. Has anyone contacted PayPal about this?

 

Yes, if you scroll back up. I did submit a complaint to paypal about this, but they have a 45 day period that you have to file within. Naturally 45 days wasn't the extreme on waiting for a coin. Now that we've progressed into almost 4 months of waiting, I guess we are SOL with Paypal. The correspondance that I got back from them was that my complaint would be placed in his "file." Who knew it would take for freaking ever to get the coins.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Here's the link to my previous post: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...8entry2101378

 

Let me start by saying I did not buy these coins, so take this for what it is worth, I am just adding my $0.02. You say PayPal has a 45 day limit on submitting a complaint. However, the premise of the sale goes against PayPal's guidelines. I thought it was wrong to presell a coin that would not be delivered within 3-4 weeks.

 

If this is the case the sale went against PayPal's guidelines and if enough people complain they might be more inclined to check into the fraudulent sale/seller. If they know they allowed something to happen that is against their own rules, you can put the onus on them to rectify the situation.

 

PayPal is geared for the buyer. So don't take one no as gospel. I say pursue PayPal and make them understand how extreme the problem is.

 

Sorry if I spoke up where I wasn't wanted. It just seems to me that people are kind of giving up just by hearing PayPal say no one time.

 

For everyone's sake I hope the coins arrive safely to everyone tomorrow and very soon. Good Luck!

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Just a brief note to let everyone know that I have sent the following email to the individual who purchased the WY coin tracking codes:

 

*****

Dear [name removed per our privacy policy],

 

At Groundspeak, we have been receiving a ton of emails regarding the WY coins. People are crying foul and claiming fraud since they paid for the coins a while ago and, despite forum assurances from you that they have been shipped, no one seems to have received any.

 

Can you please call me or reply to this email asap with some information that I can provide to everyone? I am assuming that you wouldn't have paid us for coin codes that you did not intend to use but, after seeing all of the complaints, I must admit that I share some level of concern regarding these coins.

 

Please advise. Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bryan Roth

Groundspeak Inc.

[other assorted contact info]

*****

 

I will do my best to assist with a resolution of this issue. Best case (of course) would be coins arriving in mailboxes tomorrow. My fingers are crossed.

 

-Rothstafari

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Just a brief note to let everyone know that I have sent the following email to the individual who purchased the WY coin tracking codes:

 

[snip]

...

[/snip]

 

I will do my best to assist with a resolution of this issue. Best case (of course) would be coins arriving in mailboxes tomorrow. My fingers are crossed.

 

-Rothstafari

 

Thanks Rothstafari for the assistance! :blink::rolleyes:

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Just a brief note to let everyone know that I have sent the following email to the individual who purchased the WY coin tracking codes:

<snip>

I will do my best to assist with a resolution of this issue. Best case (of course) would be coins arriving in mailboxes tomorrow. My fingers are crossed.

 

Outstanding! Bryan, you da man. As a coin club manager on the hook to the tune of $260+, I really appreciate Groundspeak trying to help, within your boundaries. Maybe you'll succeed where we have not.

 

I do believe there was no initial intent to defraud - buying the coin codes, etc. seems to indicate that. But somehow, somewhere, things went bad, real bad. I still hope Marky is right: the coins will arrive, the glass IS half full....

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Does Groundspeak have the purchased codes on record? :blink:

 

If so, locking them out so they can't be logged would be a good option if this situation hasn't been brought to a conclusion by April 1 (or at the least being "productively" taken care of). :rolleyes:

 

IMHO :ph34r:

 

D-man :ph34r:

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Actually I contacted a Postal Inspector and they indicated that it is enough if he collected funds for shipping and in some cases people sent him checks through the mail for the coins.

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Why has this person let this situation develop to this level? What is wrong with them? Just put the coins into mailers and send them out! What is SO HARD about that? So you lost a few bucks because the postage rates went up...........excuse me........what planet are we all on?

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Thanks for your time Bryan. I realize this is probably outside of the realm of what you all want to get involved with. I think many of us have taken the time to try to email the seller (either by paypal email or geocaching email.) I think people posted notes on his coin pages, and on one occassion I attempted to instant message him. Perhaps you will find a suitable response.

 

Appreciate your help!

 

JEN

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Being fairly calm about this because I thought that I did not order, but I did. Has anyone contacted PayPal about this?

 

Yes, if you scroll back up. I did submit a complaint to paypal about this, but they have a 45 day period that you have to file within. Naturally 45 days wasn't the extreme on waiting for a coin. Now that we've progressed into almost 4 months of waiting, I guess we are SOL with Paypal. The correspondance that I got back from them was that my complaint would be placed in his "file." Who knew it would take for freaking ever to get the coins.

 

As far as Paypal having the 45 day rule to file a complaint... If you paid by credit card through Paypal, you definately want to contact your credit card company and see what they can do. Tell them you want a charge back due to fraud and if they're a good company, they'll typcially help you out.

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Not to stir the pot any more than it already is ( it's already boiling over & spilling all down the stove and onto the floor :) ), but mail just came --- no Wyoming coins here in Michigan yet.

 

Windrose

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Not to stir the pot any more than it already is ( it's already boiling over & spilling all down the stove and onto the floor :) ), but mail just came --- no Wyoming coins here in Michigan yet.

 

Windrose

 

SHOCKED!! SHOCKED I am!!!

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Is it possible that the coins were never produced?

 

Most mints offer pre-production samples. Could it be that the few coins that were circulated were samples???

 

One of the mints I have used offered to engrave the samples with a code if I desired.

 

I don't remember now if I even ordered this coin. Pretty sure I did.

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Is it possible that the coins were never produced?

 

IF that's the case, then he has a major headache coming, since he has collected a lot of $$

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Is it possible that the coins were never produced?

 

Most mints offer pre-production samples. Could it be that the few coins that were circulated were samples???

 

One of the mints I have used offered to engrave the samples with a code if I desired.

 

I don't remember now if I even ordered this coin. Pretty sure I did.

 

Is it possible that the coins were never produced?

 

IF that's the case, then he has a major headache coming, since he has collected a lot of $$

 

There were pictures of the busted box in the original threads about this coin.... Then there are some Wyoming coins that are activated.... I think they exist, it's a matter of where they are at this point, I think, maybe, possibly? H$&& I'm not sure of anything with this coin now... :)

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I also sent WYlostinMA a PM the other day, but no sooner had I done so when he posted that they had all been shipped. Inthe same moment as a matter of fact. He is fully aware now that the pitchforks and flaming torches are being readied. Let's hope the Pony Express is just a little slow and the coins do start showing up. Thank you, Bryan, for doing what you did.

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Personally I believe he used the shipping money and extra money for something else and is unable to ship the coins at this point. If the coins were shipped from MA they would have appeared in NY, PA or CT areas by now. Sorry, I have complete confidence these coins were NOT shipped. Also, if the coins were shipped from Wyoming the bigger areas near the state would have received them. Once again, no one is reporting seeing them.

 

Monday should be the deadline and there should be floods of reports to various organizations including paypal and the U.S.P.S.

Edited by LadeBear68

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Is it possible that the coins were never produced?

 

IF that's the case, then he has a major headache coming, since he has collected a lot of $$

 

I really don't think he cares. That much is obvious.

 

Personally I believe he used the shipping money and extra money for something else and is unable to ship the coins at this point. If the coins were shipped from MA they would have appeared in NY, PA or CT areas by now. Sorry, I have complete confidence these coins were NOT shipped. Also, if the coins were shipped from Wyoming the bigger areas near the state would have received them. Once again, no one is reporting seeing them.

 

Should be easy to tell. Each package would still have a date stamped on it, wouldn't it? If he ever does ship these out, you should be able to tell when they were shipped to see if he was full of BS.

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Personally I believe he used the shipping money and extra money for something else and is unable to ship the coins at this point. If the coins were shipped from MA they would have appeared in NY, PA or CT areas by now. Sorry, I have complete confidence these coins were NOT shipped. Also, if the coins were shipped from Wyoming the bigger areas near the state would have received them. Once again, no one is reporting seeing them.

 

Monday should be the deadline and there should be floods of reports to various organizations including paypal and the U.S.P.S.

 

That is my theory too. If so, I would think confessing, apologizing and trying to work something out with everyone would be preferable for everyone involved over doing nothing and having a large group of angry people contacting the authorities and paypal. That is my advice anyway if the coin seller is reading.

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Thank you very much Bryan and Eartha (not sure of your real name) for stepping in, knowing that the rules say that we enter these trades on our own accord. It would be interesting to see if he answers your Emails and with what excuse. I'm not a half full or empty person just a "what the heck is going on?" person. The worst part of this is that this person has tainted the trust of coin buying and trading. I've lost more money than this on other scams but like a lot of people thought this was a safe enviroment. An interesting side note is that in one of his forums he stated that he was working on a second coin with Coins and Pins. I too will seek legal recourse although I'll be out of town all next week.

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Thanks as well to the Admins for their support.

 

No coins out here in California today... emailed him again asking for an update.

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Ok, I believe that I actually have some answers.

 

I just spoke to the person that ordered the WY Geocoin codes. According to him, all of the orders were actually sent yesterday, with the exception of 30 remaining orders which are packed and will be shipped tomorrow.

 

Assuming he told me the truth (which, after our discussion, I believe he did), this means that orders should actually start arriving within the next couple of days.

 

If they do not start arriving within the next few days, we can consider other options. Based on our conversation, I don't think it will be necessary.

 

And so, have a great weekend geocaching. If anyone receives a coin on Saturday, please let us all know. Hopefully the good news will come sooner rather than later.

 

-Rothstafari

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Rothstafari - you didn't have to do anything, and I'm sure we all appreciate what you've done.

 

Many thanks.

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Rothstafari...

 

Based on what we've seen so far.....I will beleive it, when I see a padded mailer in my mailbox.

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While I thank you very much for your hard work Rothstafari, he told you yesterday, he posted on this thread that he mailed them Tuesday, he has posted so many dates that he sent the coins that unless you have some hard evidence he sent them I don't buy it.

 

P.S. You will notice that some people have given him deadlines that if they don't receive the coins by a certain date they will seek outside help. He keeps moving the date he shipped the coins to satisfy the masses. Well if those coins don't arrive by Monday, the Postal Inspector that I spoke with, that happens to be family, will be getting a call and an email with a link to the threads he posted.

 

A second way to satisfy the masses is to give specifics as to what Post Office they were mailed from, the cost he paid to mail them and some proof such as a receipt. I also find it interesting that most of the big orders that have been put out such as JMBella and Thorny1 used paypal to pay for the postage. I have received no information from Paypal that the coins were shipped.

Edited by LadeBear68

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First he shipped most on March 1st. Then he shipped all last week. Then he shipped all this week. Now he shipped all but 30 today. I'm sitting with JayBee. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Thanks just the same for your efforts Bryan.

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Thanks Bryan for the information, but I'll take a seat next to JayBee and AtlantaGal.

 

Did he bother to explain why he's given us so many dates?

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Did he bother to explain why he's given us so many dates?

 

The primative earthling calendar is not easy to figure out mostly because it is so, well, primative. With so many leap days, it's easy to see how somebody could have their dates mixed up. :huh: Let's not even discuss leap seconds, okay? :huh:

 

--Marky

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I agree with LadeBear68. We should have received some notification that our coins were being shipped. Whenever I pay something through paypal I always get a notice that my coin is being shipped and I have gotten NO notice at all for this coin. I do NOT believe he has shipped anything yet, still.

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I agree with LadeBear68. We should have received some notification that our coins were being shipped. Whenever I pay something through paypal I always get a notice that my coin is being shipped and I have gotten NO notice at all for this coin. I do NOT believe he has shipped anything yet, still.

 

Isn't that just an optional thing in Paypal though? I'm no 100% on this, but I thought it was.... :huh:

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I agree with LadeBear68. We should have received some notification that our coins were being shipped. Whenever I pay something through paypal I always get a notice that my coin is being shipped and I have gotten NO notice at all for this coin. I do NOT believe he has shipped anything yet, still.

 

That's only if you use their shipping labels. When we shipped ours we didn't use that service. (ie: no one was notified they had shipped)

 

*edited for poor syntax

Edited by FlyinV

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Ok, I thought everyone used it.

 

(Going to hide now)

 

(peeking out) I still don't think he mailed anything though.

Edited by Parrolet

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(peeking out) I still don't think he mailed anything though.

 

We're with ya on that one!

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(Going to hide now)

 

 

no need for you to hide..... we still like you... :huh: you can take a seat beside me, AtlantaGal and Jaybee :huh:

Edited by The Blind Acorn

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My glass of beer is still half full...

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You know though if it is about the fact that he has spent all the shipping money and he has nothing to ship the coins with I would not mind if he would contact me to paypal him just enough to ship my coins with a paypal label only just to get my coins, but nothing more.

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If these coins we mailed out Monday and Tuesday as he said, then they must be coming by Pony Express!!

 

Sounds like we were all lied to again (Not to shocked though any more)

 

Maybe he's waiting till his baby can walk and then the kid will hand deliver them to us all!

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My glass of beer is still half full...

 

Lightweight.

 

:huh:

Edited by robert

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Maybe he's waiting till his baby can walk and then the kid will hand deliver them to us all!

 

Seriously now the feller has done the community wrong, but bringing his family into it like that is low and wrong!

 

Any problems we have with him should be directed torwards him and him alone.

 

Even if your statement was meant to be funny I think it feeds way more negativity than needed to the situation at hand.

 

(noted this is just my opinion and please don't take offense)

 

have a good evening all

 

Pepper

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My glass of beer is still half full...

 

and p*ss warm now too :cry:

 

My glass of beer is still half full...

 

Need a nipple? :cry:

 

:huh::cry::huh: Ladies...Please........ :huh::D:cry:

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My glass of beer is still half full...

 

So is mine - it would be completely full but I keep drinking it! :huh:

 

Marky, I will be in Bezerkely on the April 14-16th - Bison or Triple Rock sounds cool :huh::huh:

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(Going to hide now)

 

 

no need for you to hide..... we still like you... :huh: you can take a seat beside me, AtlantaGal and Jaybee :huh:

 

Can I sit with you guys, too? :huh:

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no need for you to hide..... we still like you... :huh: you can take a seat beside me, AtlantaGal and Jaybee :huh:

 

Can I sit with you guys, too? :huh:

 

/AG pats seat next to her for Shop

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no need for you to hide..... we still like you... :D you can take a seat beside me, AtlantaGal and Jaybee :huh:

 

Can I sit with you guys, too? :huh:

 

/AG pats seat next to her for Shop

 

:huh:

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My glass of beer is still half full...

 

So is mine - it would be completely full but I keep drinking it! :huh:

 

Marky, I will be in Bezerkely on the April 14-16th - Bison or Triple Rock sounds cool :huh::huh:

I'll have to do some research and find a cache near a good pub. :D Of course, I don't get up to that part of the bay very often. Going to be down anywhere near San Jose?

 

--Marky

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