Announcing The South Carolina Geocaching Organization (scgo)

February 25, 2006

As a result of the South Carolina state legislature taking an active interest in geocaching, a little self reflection among SC geocachers appeared to be in order. As a start, many felt our code of geocaching etiquette could be improved. Certainly, we weren’t the worst, but yes, we could do better. Others believed a closer working relationship with state authorities, tourism, and local businesses would help. Most believed the bottom line was the need to create a working atmosphere where geocaching was a desired friend and partner benefiting all of South Carolina, rather than something that needed to be controlled and regulated.

The South Carolina Geocaching Organization (SCGO) is our first step. Beginning in South Carolina, the intent of the SCGO is to set a new standard in geocaching etiquette. A copy of this new Code of Etiquette can be found on our website at scgeocaching.com. The SCGO also has plans to include businesses, other organizations, and our legislators in events. There is also a forum where geocachers can ask questions of the geocaching.com reviewers. The SCGO will also be acknowleding businesses and organizations that encourage and support geocaching in a special SCGO Friends of Geocaching recognition.

We think these steps will help us create a much stronger, more positive perception of geocaching. As we said, it’s a start. We have a long way to go. We hope you’ll visit us at scgeocaching.com, join the effort, and help us set a new standard in geocaching etiquette.

February 25, 2006

This is different from South Carolina Geocachers Association?

7.2k · February 25, 2006

I've tried to join, but I'm not being sent a verification code. What's up?

February 25, 2006

I've tried to join, but I'm not being sent a verification code. What's up?

Thought it was just me and maybe I typed a wrong email. Sent an email asking and nothing.

February 25, 2006

I've tried to join, but I'm not being sent a verification code. What's up?

Same here...

24.7k · February 25, 2006

The code looks like the creed. Wouldnt' it be simpler to endorse the creed or is it the creed broken in some way?

February 25, 2006

This is different from South Carolina Geocachers Association?

Yes, they are two distinct organizations. As one prominent SC cacher put it, think of the SCGO as a "good housekeepings seal." Discussions have been held with some of the SCG"A" leadership group to maintain a close working relationship down the road.

February 25, 2006

And what about the validation codes? How long?

February 25, 2006

I've tried to join, but I'm not being sent a verification code. What's up?

Thought it was just me and maybe I typed a wrong email. Sent an email asking and nothing.

With all the traffic about the new coin and registrations, it appears the email server became "plugged." It has been reset.

If you do not get your verification message, then ask for a password reminder. We just did it and the message arrived in seconds. If that fails, please drop us a message at info@scgeocaching.com. We will get you registered and verified one way or the other!

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

February 25, 2006

And what about the validation codes? How long?

We just tested the system and got a response in "seconds" ... again, please drop us an email at info@scgeocaching.com if you continue to experience problems.

Thanks once more for your patience and understanding.

February 25, 2006

still no email, sent 3 emails 1 to link on geocaching profile page, one to admin on web page and just now third to info@scgeocaching.com. did the password reminder twice awhile ago and no it is not in junk email. asked to check email in case I typed it wrong.

February 25, 2006

As one prominent SC cacher put it, think of the SCGO as a "good housekeepings seal."

What prominent SC cacher would that be?

X

1.5k · February 25, 2006

what purpose does giving a physical address serve as part of signing up?

February 25, 2006

As one prominent SC cacher put it, think of the SCGO as a "good housekeepings seal."

What prominent SC cacher would that be?

X

I don't know about the "prominent" part unless he's referring to my girth, but I suspect that the OP may be referring to me and my attempt to restate for others what I thought OP was saying at the last Midlands SCGA Chapter meeting.

I was simply restating what I understood OP's position to be in those terms as an attempt to verify my understanding and (assuming I had it right) as an aid to communicating OP's statement of intent to others present at the meeting.

My restatement was not intended as an endorsement of OP's ideas, but was just a rewording of what I thought OP was saying to improve my understanding of OP's intent and to try to help OP communicate his intent to others in an otherwise somewhat confusing (to me anyway) and vigorous discussion.

Jon (of ikim & noj)

edited for clarity (I hope)

Edited February 25, 2006 by ikim & noj

7.2k · February 25, 2006

Yeah, I tried the reminder thing and it still is a no go. No, I don't have a filter that I can't see.

7.2k · February 25, 2006

The code looks like the creed. Wouldnt' it be simpler to endorse the creed or is it the creed broken in some way?

That's kind of what I'm wondering, too.

February 25, 2006

I clicked on the "reminder" link and still have not received an e-mail.

However, I tried entering my login name and the password I gave during registration in the entry boxes and then clicked on the reminder link - and I was logged in. And now I can log in at will.

Maybe not all of the mice are running the same way in the wheel yet...

7.2k · February 25, 2006

...or maybe they are picking and choosing who can become a member.

I tried as gpsfun did and did not get the same result.

February 25, 2006

There have been some intermittent problems with the automatic verification system and our email server/ISP. Some verifications are going through fine, while others are hanging up. We're aware of the problem and are working with our ISP to correct it as soon as possible. Please bear with us as the problem appears to be on the ISP end where we don't have a lot of control.

In the meantime, we've been watching the logs and have manually verified people. Folks who have been verified this way can login with their user name and password ignoring the verification block (if it appears). If you continue to have problems, please send us a private message at info@scgeocaching.com.

Thanks once again for your patience and understanding as we work out the kinks in the new site.

February 25, 2006

I can get in but all the forums issue the following error

Server Error in '/dotnetnuke' Application.

Runtime Error

Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.

February 26, 2006

I can get in but all the forums issue the following error

Server Error in '/dotnetnuke' Application.

Runtime Error

Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.

I can get in now. Guess I was "manually" verified. Got into the site and forums. Not getting that error, but as expected not much posted except the original posts by "admin"

7.2k · February 26, 2006

I appears as though the admin of SCGO are being very selective on who they let in. This doesn't bode well.

I did notice something on the home page:

The South Carolina Geocaching Organization (SCGO) is based on a close and mutually beneficial working relationship between government, tourism, business, property owners, and SCGO geocachers.

I added emphasis to point out the organizations is for the benefit of "government, tourism, business, property owners" and those who are members of the SCGO. Where does it benefit the rest of the South Carolinian geocachers?

The fact that I've clearly indicated that I've been having problems getting in and I still can't get in means this is not an open organization. I've been contacted by others who are in the same boat.

Makes me wonder what this exclusive club was announced here.

February 26, 2006

I tried to register twice and never got an email either.

February 26, 2006

I can get in but all the forums issue the following error

Server Error in '/dotnetnuke' Application.

Runtime Error

Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.

Looks like the website doesn't "like" my standard browser, which basically is a Firefox with a few extra security features. Standard IE and standard Firefox work fine. First time that I have ever seen error message triggered depending on which browser I am using.

February 27, 2006

I registered but never got an email The next day I tried to log-in and got in with no problem. I joined but can't say I agree with having to provide a physical address either, just don't see the need. We'll see where it goes.

March 1, 2006

I'm sure I'm gonna upset a lot of people with this but I don't care. I think this is a farce. A websight for geocaching etiquette....A websight for a little "self reflection that apears to be in order"..."a copy of our code and etiquette"..."SCGO will acknowledge businesess and orginazations that encourage and support geocaching in a special SCGO Friends of Geocaching recognation"........UM NO!!!!!!

I haven't been geocaching long, maybe a lot of you don't think I have a right to post this. But I didn't see any minimum criteria for me signing up on this websight, so I will speak my mind. Why is it that I need some self reflection on geocaching? Is it because I happen to live in South Carolina? Where is the self reflection websight in Wyoming, California, Oklahoma or Florida? Oh, there isn't one. There are websights though that encourage geocaching get togethers and trips. Not South Carolina. We are to worried about our etiquette and how we might piss someone off.

On to our code and etiquette. I got into geocaching because there weren't any rules, just don't mess up the wildlife, don't go on to private property unless you have permission and follow the rules of the cache. But now we have an entire pamphlet on our codes and etiquette. I don't care what that pamphlet says, follow the three rules that I listed above and you'll be fine in my pamphlet. Now I'm just talking about finding a geocache, not hiding one. Anyone who has tried to hide one in South Carolina knows how much of a pain that is. I'm sure that's the major reason for there not being that many new caches in South Carolina (especially Charleston) in such a long time.

On to SCGO will encourage and support businesess. Why does this have to be in a special SCGO websight? Why can't this just be in a general geocaching websight? I think it would be great if we recognized businesess and orginazations that supported geocaching. but surely not in this websight where you need to follow their codes and etiquette (no matter what they may be).

Look, I love geocaching. It's in my blood now. Still I'm not going to walk with my tail between my legs because of some bill that the higher up has out there. If they ban geocaching in South Carolina...fine. I'll find another way to geocache even if it isn't through the geocaching.com websight. I will not give in to communism either. I don't want to be told how I need to geocache. I practice CITO. I stay off of private property. Most of all I have fun. Hey that's it. Maybe we should lighten up on the rules and try having a little more fun. I'm sure that's what got us all into geocaching in the first place.

Oh by the way, I wasn't granted permission into the SCGO websight either. Oh well, maybe tomorrow.

Edited March 1, 2006 by Brett&Citty

March 1, 2006

After what B&C posted I can no longer hold my tounge. I was not at the last meeting when this SCGO bomb was dropped,but I think it belongs right there with Oscar Mayer. I think this is a result of several (or one) cacher not getting their way about certain issues, and instead of going through the proper channels just decided to go rogue. I believe that if you follow the guidelines on GC.com you should be fine. New etiquette and hiding practices are not needed. Self-reflection...what a joke. Try selfish and childish they fit much better. I think that the people involved in this should rethink what you are doing to the cachers in SC. In a time where we need unity and hope, trust and understanding, you the SCGO and what you state in your website and practices are undermining and tearing apart what little unity we have left. I for one as a cacher, don't want you to speak in my behalf to any business, representative, organization, or individual commercial or private. I wonder just how much damage has been done so far, by proxy representation. Stop this nonsense and quit promoting personal agenda!

March 1, 2006

I told S I'd stay out of this, but I can't. And I know I'll regret it later.

When the representative of SCGO announced it's planned existence at the Geoholics Meeting, he talked about many things.

But the thing that stuck in my mind most was that if they don't approve of someone, they would 'Black Ball' them. These are his words. They are not my interpretation. 'Black Ball' is a direct quote. So if you're wondering if this has happened to you, don't waste any more mental energy.

That was how they planned to control the behavior of folks who they felt weren't 'following the rules of proper ettiquette' or didn't meet their standards.

SCGO Rep - I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings. I consider you to be a friend. But if what you said at the meeting is now in practice I am very disappointed.

- T of TandS

March 2, 2006

I told S I'd stay out of this, but I can't. And I know I'll regret it later.

When the representative of SCGO announced it's planned existence at the Geoholics Meeting, he talked about many things.

But the thing that stuck in my mind most was that if they don't approve of someone, they would 'Black Ball' them. These are his words. They are not my interpretation. 'Black Ball' is a direct quote. So if you're wondering if this has happened to you, don't waste any more mental energy.

That was how they planned to control the behavior of folks who they felt weren't 'following the rules of proper ettiquette' or didn't meet their standards.

SCGO Rep - I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings. I consider you to be a friend. But if what you said at the meeting is now in practice I am very disappointed.

- T of TandS

This is funny...but right on target! Here is a direct cut and paste from the forum:

There have been a lot of comments made in the Groundspeak Forums. It would be inappropriate to respond to them. Enough said. It's a free world, but please try to hold yourself back and not respond as individual members.

Likewise, please keep in mind this is a family-oriented organization. Thanks in advance for keeping your comments and thoughts in these forums consistent with that goal.

So this only confirms that the SCGO is a PRIVATE organization with their own personal agenda! Shame...Shame... I too am disappointed. I think the more that this circus comes to light, you will find that the SCGO is not what it claims to be! As far as family-oriented is concerned, more bologna. You can blackball, blueball, redball, or greenball anybody you choose, but after all the smoke clears and the real truth comes out, the only ball left is the "EIGHTBALL". Will you be behind it? :anibad:

My bologna has a first name...........

March 2, 2006

Brilliant, TandS and Disk Devil. Absolutely brilliant....

7.2k · March 2, 2006

After having a conversation with Mike of Team Tigerz I was allowed access. Mike and I had a fairly long phone conversation and much was said. I can further understand where he is coming from and the direction he wants to take the SCGO.

While a desire may be honorable, we can't control everyone, nor make everyone think like us. We are free to think how we wish.

As I understand it, the SCGO was created out of the desire to eliminate some cache placements the founding member(s) were uncomfortable with. There are some cache placements I'm uncomfortable with, as well--not the same ones necessarily. There are caches that encourage behavior in others that may not be the best course of action to take. This is something on which we all should reflect.

However, to work to get some caches archived, to "work behind the scenes" without consultation or support of any group or body, to create your own group to do the same, is not something I can support.

Here is my post there:

This post is to express my intent to not support the SCGO at this time.

While I understand the desire to keep geocaching, and related activities, friendly to the general public, I can not support the direction the SCGO is going.

The "SCGO Code of Etiquette" is very similar to the Geocreed. There is no need, in the least, to develop something new. I was the primary on developing the Creed and took a lot of pains to cover every aspect. This was accomplished with the help and input of a lot of folks through the entire geocaching community and took place in the gc.com forums. There was a lot of give and take to hammer out something all inclusive, though simple. There is nothing that I can see in the SCGO version that is not already covered in the Creed.

It has been conveyed to me that one of the founding members of the SCGO has "worked behind the scenes" to get some caches archived when they felt "uncomfortable" with them. What exactly this means, I don't know. I do know, however, one of my own caches has had logs left that were critical of the placement even though I had permission from those in charge of the lands. One has to wonder why this placement was questioned when I had clearly indicated permission had been granted on the cache page.

I've seen other, similar placements be archived because what I can only term as harassment. These folks were very upset and archived their placement in anger or a sense of "not worth dealing with it." I can understand that being on the same receiving end.

I want to make something very clear. I am NOT saying that no one should report a cache that is unsafe, illegal, or unethical. We really do have the obligation to report some caches.

However, there is a huge difference between a completely unsafe cache, an illegal placement, or one that is unethical; and one you are simply uncomfortable with.

Considering the conversation I've had with Mike, and learning the direction the SCGO is planning to take, this is not something I can support. I can not, and will not, support "working behind the scenes" to get a cache archived I'm "uncorfortable" with.

Until the SCGO changes direction, I will not support it.

In conclusion, if anyone has a problem with any cache placement, you may wish to tactfully express your concerns with the owners. If the cache is clearly against listing policy, document the violation and contact the listing site. You could contact the leaders of a local or regional group to express your concerns as they sometimes have a little bit more weight with the listing site.

While the majority of the geocachers in the state have been pre-occupied or discouraged by the recent unpleasantness in the legislature, I still check my email. I have a very strong desire to keep geocaching a viable hobby in South Carolina, but I realize you can't archive every cache you are "uncomfortable" with.

I echo here my last line in the above quote:

Until the SCGO changes direction, I will not support it.

March 2, 2006

Wow CR! Nicely done.

X

March 2, 2006

Wow! This has definitely gotten interesting...

March 2, 2006

After having a conversation with Mike of Team Tigerz I was allowed access.

WOW, are you telling me that you had to talk with a specific person to gain access to the site? Makes me question the replies of the trouble the site was having with their web host. <_< Talk about a lack of ethics!

Seems to me there are a set of rules set by Groundspeak and Geocaching.com. Play within those rules or go do something else. Heck I can't solve the majority of puzzle caches should I work to get rid of them, start my own organization and web page? Heck I am just here to have some fun, visit places I didn't know about, learn something, and maybe make a few new friends. Don't make me get out my flag and soap box and start my speak on individual rights and freedoms.

March 2, 2006

After having a conversation with Mike of Team Tigerz I was allowed access. Mike and I had a fairly long phone conversation and much was said. I can further understand where he is coming from and the direction he wants to take the SCGO.

While a desire may be honorable, we can't control everyone, nor make everyone think like us. We are free to think how we wish.

As I understand it, the SCGO was created out of the desire to eliminate some cache placements the founding member(s) were uncomfortable with. There are some cache placements I'm uncomfortable with, as well--not the same ones necessarily. There are caches that encourage behavior in others that may not be the best course of action to take. This is something on which we all should reflect.

However, to work to get some caches archived, to "work behind the scenes" without consultation or support of any group or body, to create your own group to do the same, is not something I can support.

Here is my post there:

This post is to express my intent to not support the SCGO at this time.

While I understand the desire to keep geocaching, and related activities, friendly to the general public, I can not support the direction the SCGO is going.

The "SCGO Code of Etiquette" is very similar to the Geocreed. There is no need, in the least, to develop something new. I was the primary on developing the Creed and took a lot of pains to cover every aspect. This was accomplished with the help and input of a lot of folks through the entire geocaching community and took place in the gc.com forums. There was a lot of give and take to hammer out something all inclusive, though simple. There is nothing that I can see in the SCGO version that is not already covered in the Creed.

It has been conveyed to me that one of the founding members of the SCGO has "worked behind the scenes" to get some caches archived when they felt "uncomfortable" with them. What exactly this means, I don't know. I do know, however, one of my own caches has had logs left that were critical of the placement even though I had permission from those in charge of the lands. One has to wonder why this placement was questioned when I had clearly indicated permission had been granted on the cache page.

I've seen other, similar placements be archived because what I can only term as harassment. These folks were very upset and archived their placement in anger or a sense of "not worth dealing with it." I can understand that being on the same receiving end.

I want to make something very clear. I am NOT saying that no one should report a cache that is unsafe, illegal, or unethical. We really do have the obligation to report some caches.

However, there is a huge difference between a completely unsafe cache, an illegal placement, or one that is unethical; and one you are simply uncomfortable with.

Considering the conversation I've had with Mike, and learning the direction the SCGO is planning to take, this is not something I can support. I can not, and will not, support "working behind the scenes" to get a cache archived I'm "uncorfortable" with.

Until the SCGO changes direction, I will not support it.

In conclusion, if anyone has a problem with any cache placement, you may wish to tactfully express your concerns with the owners. If the cache is clearly against listing policy, document the violation and contact the listing site. You could contact the leaders of a local or regional group to express your concerns as they sometimes have a little bit more weight with the listing site.

While the majority of the geocachers in the state have been pre-occupied or discouraged by the recent unpleasantness in the legislature, I still check my email. I have a very strong desire to keep geocaching a viable hobby in South Carolina, but I realize you can't archive every cache you are "uncomfortable" with.

I echo here my last line in the above quote:

Until the SCGO changes direction, I will not support it.

I honestly had nothing to say in regards to all that has been taking place lately. However, everything CR has said in the above post is excellent and I agree 100% with everything he said. CR has said it all and there isn't anything else to be added. Thanks CR.

7.2k · March 2, 2006

Not surprisingly, my post there has been deleted without rebuttal, warning, or explaination.

March 2, 2006

I would have to say no to supporting such a secretive and exclusive organization as well. This has started to much controversy at a time when we need unity. We can fight in here all we want but at the end of the day all we want to really do is cache. Remember caching? I do.

The fact that I hear that posts in his forums are being deleted really makes me question what is going on. I'll be nice and stop there.

X

Edited March 2, 2006 by Clan X-Man

March 2, 2006

I'm two for two. Two posts, two deletions. I am surprised and speachless.

1.5k · March 2, 2006

I am taking a good hard long look at what geocaching is really about and what is have given me in he last two and half years and reflecting if it is enough or is there more to gain that will be of positive use to me

Edited March 2, 2006 by geoholic28

March 2, 2006

Not surprisingly, my post there has been deleted without rebuttal, warning, or explaination.

Well, if your login still works, you haven't been "blackballed" yet. Watch out for process servers though - I hear rumors that some big legal guns are being dragged out to ensure that things that are deleted on the SCGO forums don't get posted here either. Edited March 2, 2006 by ikim & noj

March 2, 2006

Not surprisingly, my post there has been deleted without rebuttal, warning, or explaination.
Well, if your login still works, you haven't been "blackballed" yet. Watch out for process servers though - I hear rumors that some big legal guns are being dragged out to ensure that things that are deleted on the SCGO forums don't get posted here either.

Wouldn't what someone posted be considered there intellectual property?

March 2, 2006

This email was sent to the SCGO Membership email address <membership@scgeocaching.com> on behalf of the SCGA Steering Committee at 6:37pm today:

To whoever constitutes the governing membership of the SCGO:

I am emailing you on behalf of the SCGA Steering Committee to require the immediate removal of all links to the SCGA website on the SCGO website. We also require that any statement that refers to the SCGA as your "sister organization" or that implies in any other way that a relationship exists between the two organizations be removed immediately from the SCGO website.

The SCGO appears to be an organization that restricts its membership to those who will not disagree with the current leadership, censors posts by its own members that disagree with the "party line", and supports threats of legal action against those posting dissenting opinions about the SCGO in national forums. The SCGA does not care to be associated with such an organization in any way.

If at some future time the SCGO becomes a more open organization, you are welcome to approach the SCGA Steering Committee to to propose development of a formal relationship, but at this time the SCGA will not support any association with your organization.

Please remove any such links and references immediately from the SCGO website and advise by return email as soon as they have been removed.

Jon Barry

SCGA Steering Committee

7.2k · March 2, 2006

Not surprisingly, my post there has been deleted without rebuttal, warning, or explaination.
Well, if your login still works, you haven't been "blackballed" yet. Watch out for process servers though - I hear rumors that some big legal guns are being dragged out to ensure that things that are deleted on the SCGO forums don't get posted here either.

"Blackballed?" From what?

I "unregistered" from the site. Anyone else wishing to remove themselves from the site just go to your profile and click "unregister" at the bottom.

The reason I did this is I believe it is clear the admin of the site don't really want dialog. They want compliance. I'm sorry, but I have my own mind, I form my own opinion, and will not let someone dictate to me what opinion I can express in civil discourse.

I offered an explaination of why I couldn't in good faith support the SCGO and in stead of debate, discussion, or even argument, my post was simply deleted. As of this post I've yet to hear from anyone associated with the SCGO since my conversation with Mike the other night.

So, if my input is not wanted, I don't need the distraction. I will simply have to deal with the actions of the SCGO externally as it is clear I could do nothing within.

As for any legal action, I'm unclear what I've done that is actionable. The SCGO TOU clearly states the SCGO does not claim ownership of any comments of a poster. Nor does it claim exclusive lisencee rights to reposts of materials submitted. The words I quoted are entirely my own. I've not given up rights to them, nor have any restrictions been placed on them. The words in quotes may be paraphrases of snipets of conversations I've had, but there has never been any form of understanding that said conversations were private or secret.

March 3, 2006

The forums, or at least the link to the forums, has been removed from the SCGO web site.

Edit: Or perhaps their ISP/web host has had yet another problem

Edited March 3, 2006 by gpsfun

March 3, 2006

The forums, or at least the link to the forums, has been removed from the SCGO web site.

Yep, anybody got anything else?

March 3, 2006

Earlier this evening when I click on one of the topics I got a message saying I was not authorized to view that tab. If logged out I see the “Discussion Forum” link, but if I log in it is no longer visible. Do you see the link when logged off?

March 3, 2006

March 3, 2006

Down boy.

X

March 5, 2006

Didn't George Orwell write a book about this once upon a time?

March 5, 2006

And I can't get into the forums on that site either.

This is what I get every time:

"You do not have access to view this tab within the portal."

Then the link disappears.

Oh well, just looking for some entertainment.

Announcing The South Carolina Geocaching Organization (scgo)

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