Bush Dives

[+Lighteye]

Ok folks, I would like some feedback on urban nano/micro bush dives. You KNOW what I am talking about. Mrs. Lighteye hunts urbans exclusively, therefore, I have to hunt them as well so we can play together.

 

I have been to three hunts in the last week where the shrubbery is being utterly destroyed in the hunt for a cache. Nothing like seeing what fellow cachers will do in an attempt for a find. I don't so much blame them, as careless cache owners. True, those hunting are also at fault, but for crying out loud, enough urban destruction.

 

Perhaps a "special" category for cache type with an added descriptor of "urban bush dive hell to be expected. You WILL destroy public and/or private property while on this hunt."

 

One of them is next to a VERY expensive area of multi-million dollar homes overlooking the bay area waterfront. This one has been muggled apparently several times by an irate homeowner who was tired of the destruction. The cache owner simply replaces the cache and posts a note to the effect that it is back up again. I have pleaded with the owner of the cache to disable it and move it to an area under perhaps less scrutiny, and less likely to offend. I do not blame the muggler at all, but rather understand his issue with it, namely the wanton and inevitable destruction of nice shrubbery surrounding a nice piece of artwork with a great view in front of his house. My requests fell on deaf ears, as my emails aren't returned anymore, and the cache is active, the destruction continues. There are 3 miles of this waterfront area, and many other places for a hide.

 

What a shoddy impression to give of the GC community with this one. I refused to go back after my first 2 DNFs at this area and seeing what was going on, as it just irked me.

 

Am I being overly sensitive, or is a local experienced cacher just being obstinate becasue he has 2000+ finds? Thoughts.... I know you've all got them, and from what I've seen, you seem to share them freely.

Out with it, folks!

Edited February 24, 2006 by Mr. & Mrs. Lighteye

[+sept1c_tank]

I love micros and anything smaller. Having said that, any cache that encourages the destruction or alteration of its surroundings is a bad idea. This also applies to traditional caches with social trails.

[+Miragee]

I am always very uncomfortable when I come to those kinds of hides. I simply don't understand why people hide caches in places like that without giving an explicit hint so the cache can be found easily.

 

At the risk of angering the local caching community, you might contact a Reviewer about the situation, if you don't want to post an SBA note on the cache page, which will also get the Reviewer's attention.

[CoyoteRed]

Take a picture of the destruction and its exact location. Detail who owns the property. Send it to Hydee. She'll do the right thing.

 

Folks who can afford multi-million dollar homes also generally have connections that could make it, shall we say, "less fun" for the whole geocaching community in the area.

 

Who cares how many finds the cache owner has. From your side of the story he is in the wrong. I might change my mind once I hear his side, but I can only go with what I'm hearing right now.

[+caderoux]

Someone around here coined the phrase "Grope and hope like a dope" for these.

[+briansnat]

Unfortunatley, or fortunately, I've never encountered a cache like this one. I think CR gives good advice.

[+tozainamboku]

Don't blame the hider for this. The cache hunter needs to take responsiblity not to damage property and also (to some degree) avoid making the muggles too suspicious. The hider may have intended it to be a challenging hide (although I'll admit that a lot of these hides are rated by the hider 1/1). The hider most likely did not hide the cache in a manner that requires the shubbery to be destroyed. Look for existing holes or gaps where you can reach in without causing new damage. The cache is probably there. Of course, in some cases, the plant may have grown over the space the hider used. Cache hunters tend to be tenacious, but my rule for this kind of hide is to limit the time I spend searching. (We have the seven minute rule around here). I also decrypt the hint fairly quickly at these locations. If there is no hint or it's not helpful, I'll complain in my DNF log. I'll usually remark that if you hide a cache this way you should give a good hint.

[+StarBrand]

Ran across something similar last summer. A micro whose coordinates led to the middle of a city park botanical area. The plants and surrounding park were quite torn up from searchers and I decided to back off. Only when I expressed my concerns did the owner add a note on the cache page to "use common sense and trust your GPS to take you to the coordinates and do not leave the narrow pathway while searching".

 

How about use common sense and don't place micros in a spot that will encourage the destruction of things during a hunt. The added note makes it somewhat better but still not the best place IMHO.

[+sbell111]

Don't blame the hider for this. The cache hunter needs to take responsiblity not to damage property and also (to some degree) avoid making the muggles too suspicious. ...

I agree with the big guy. As a cache seeker, it is my responsibility not to damage anything. If some damage has occured, I should report it to the cache owner who will typically move the cache or archive it. I don't get the point of bypassing the cache owner to report it to Hydee. Reporting the problem to the owner is responsible, without needing to be a tattle tail. I am just about completely fed up with some peoples need to police others.

 

This issue is little different than the 'social trails' argument. If a trail developes, the cache can be moved. The trail goes away.

Edited February 24, 2006 by sbell111

[+Kit Fox]

Don't blame the hider for this. The cache hunter needs to take responsiblity not to damage property and also (to some degree) avoid making the muggles too suspicious. ...

I agree with the big guy. As a cache seeker, it is my responsibility not to damage anything. If some damage has occured, I should report it to the cache owner who will typically move the cache or archive it. I don't get the point of bypassing the cache owner to report it to Hydee. Reporting the problem to the owner is responsible, without needing to be a tattle tail. I am just about completely fed up with some peoples need to police others.

 

This issue is little different than the 'social trails' argument. If a trail developes, the cache can be moved. The trail goes away.

 

For a cache like this, you can always make a "special" bookmark that is public. Something like Needle in a haystack Micro cache, don't waste your time.

 

Now in regards to responsibility, I think the cache owner should not place caches in areas where damage will occur. When a cache owner decides to hang a bison capsule in a bush, he should assume that careless cachers will tear up landscaping trying to find the cache.

 

I'll use my example: I hid a small cylindrical cache in the core of a dead Joshua Tree branch. I used the exisiting core to camo both sides of the container so the branch looked normal. What did cachers do? They actually destroyed every bush within 10 feet of the cache. Some Jerk Off even ripped down a living Joshua Tree, which is protected by federal law!

 

I was so pissed about the careless cachers, I archived the cache. Ever since that incident, I won't place caches in areas where cachers are likely to destroy everything in their path.

 

You can always be the "bad guy" and log a SBA.

[CoyoteRed]

I was so pissed about the careless cachers, I archived the cache. Ever since that incident, I won't place caches in areas where cachers are likely to destroy everything in their path.

 

I hear ya.

 

I've learned that you can't put special directions from a land owner clearly spelled out on the cache page and expect them to be followed. It's really discouraging.

[+AuntieWeasel]

Good lord! The topic title made me brace myself, hard. I wasn't sure if it was going to be political or sexual, but I wasn't looking forward to it...