Motorway Mayhem Rant

February 20, 2006

I have a good case for making this rant.

My example is M5 J3!

2 months ago a cache was placed near the junction (0.5miles away) next to a roundabout giving easy acces there and back to the M5.

So why is another 2 caches needed for the same junction in the MM series??????

There is already a cache for the junction so why place anymore.

This was my point at the start of the year as to why people place caches, its not placing them because its a good spot its placing them for the sake of placing them.

I know well the site of the M5 J3 MM cache and (without having been) know what goes on there and it aint pleasant!

Please will people think before placing unneeded caches

3.9k · February 20, 2006

Nobody is forcing you to find them.

2.5k · February 20, 2006

Joke

Lathama, I hope that you are not riding that pushbike of yours down motorways; you will get into trouble :lol:

February 20, 2006

Nobody is forcing you to find them.

I just dont see the point of them being placed in the first place, when there is a perfectly good cache 0.12 miles away

2.5k · February 20, 2006

Nobody is forcing you to find them.

I just dont see the point of them being placed in the first place, when there is a perfectly good cache 0.12 miles away

Opinion

That is not within the 0.1 mile limit so it is not breaking that particular guideline

February 20, 2006

Nobody is forcing you to find them.

I just dont see the point of them being placed in the first place, when there is a perfectly good cache 0.12 miles away

Opinion

That is not within the 0.1 mile limit so it is not breaking that particular guideline

I realise that, i just dont see why such a small area needs 3 caches

2.5k · February 20, 2006

Nobody is forcing you to find them.

I just dont see the point of them being placed in the first place, when there is a perfectly good cache 0.12 miles away

Opinion

That is not within the 0.1 mile limit so it is not breaking that particular guideline

I realise that, i just dont see why such a small area needs 3 caches

Opinion

Because it is allowed, as rutson says you don't have to do them. Are they causing you a particular problem? If so I'm sure you could email the mods and request that they are archived

3.8k · February 20, 2006

I have a good case for making this rant.

This was my point at the start of the year as to why people place caches, its not placing them because its a good spot its placing them for the sake of placing them.

It looks like you are attempting to stir up this debate again? If I remember correctly, last month you didn't get a lot of support with your opinion, do you think you will get it now?

Edited February 20, 2006 by Haggis Hunter

2.5k · February 20, 2006

Hmm, two points...

I did wonder myself that if a junction had a pre-existing cache which could be deemed a cache and dash, would another one be added just so there was a 'Motorway Mayhem' cache at each junction. I finally decided that if that happened, then so what? more caches to find!

MM caches are not a different case from any other cache - if they obey the guidelines then they can be placed, and this includes the proximity rule. Sometimes we find caches which perhaps are not of the standard that we would like to see, but I would suggest that the way to address the problem is to contact the cache setter directly (and politely) with your concerns and constructive comments. There may well be an element of bunging in a cache just to complete a series, but that's no reason why it cannot be a decent cache in it's own right, even if it has to be a micro as a result of location constraints.

February 20, 2006

I have a good case for making this rant.

Hmm, when are you going to tell us the good case? :lol:

The motorway mayhem series is intended to make life more interesting for people on journeys. In what way does having a few caches in an area as opposed to one matter?

February 20, 2006

It looks like you are attempting to stir up this debate again? If I remember correctly, last month you didn't get a lot of support with your opinion, do you think you will get it now?

It has o do with that, and the argument about placing micros and disposable caches IMHO. All the arguments revolve around the quantity quality compromise. As a Geocache I tend to side with Alibags on the side of quality is better than quantity and placing a cache for the sake of placing a cache does not please me. I do fully appreciate that for many it is the quantity they are interested in, and people have differing opinions about what is quality. As long as they are placed responsibly the writeups are good and honest (so I can judge what to look for) I can copy with naff caches in the world. Just one thought, I am certain that no one is going to argue against a good cache regardless of it's proximity to another, so make them good.

3.9k · February 20, 2006

This is not black and white. I never set out to be a numbers man, it just sort of happened, and yes I am interested in numbers. However, I am also very happy to spend all day doing one cache in great company, whether that's my family or other cachers.

Bring on the drive bys for us poor souls who have to undure the motorway network.

Bring on the long, hard mentally and physically demanding caches.

Variety is the spice of life, that's why most of us cache in the first place I think.

February 20, 2006

I think, by design, if a cache is accepted by the powers that be then it is ok.

Whether the cache is 'quality' or 'quantity' is a subjective issue about which two different people are unlikely to agree!!

February 20, 2006

There may well be an element of bunging in a cache just to complete a series, but that's no reason why it cannot be a decent cache in it's own right, even if it has to be a micro as a result of location constraints.

I agree with this. The potential problem with this series is that they can end up being a micro in a bush at a services. But conversely, because they are branded with the same name, you know that this is likely without having to read the description so that those who enjoy them can do them and those that don't can avoid them easily.

The one I have done in this series was up front in saying that it wasn't a great spot. I found myself thinking, why on earth would anyone want to put a cache here... but also, why on earth did I go and find it when I knew what it was going to be like! What a strange hobby this is.

1.7k · February 20, 2006

I think, by design, if a cache is accepted by the powers that be then it is ok.

Whether the cache is 'quality' or 'quantity' is a subjective issue about which two different people are unlikely to agree!!

If a cache meets the guidelines the we publish them. We don't "approve" the quality, if we tried that I'm sure all hell would break loose :laughing: !! I have my personal opinions on some of the caches I have to review but I try not to let that affect my objective judgement.

As has been said, if you don't like them, don't do them - use the "Ignore" feature never to see them again.

February 20, 2006

Apologies! I didn't mean to imply that if they were accepted they were given a personal stamp of approval by the moderators. What I meant was, they meet with the guidelines for placing a cache.

Didn't explain myself clearly! :laughing:

There is a cache near us that has been placed in what I can only describe as an unofficial rubbish tip! Broken bottles, old tyres etc. Not my idea of fun, so as soon as I got within 10m, I turned round and went onto the next one. Other people have found this cache though, and enjoyed it so it's down to personal taste. I didn't want to do it as it was my cup of tea, but I didn't fuss about it, or even e-mail the owner. I've just noted that one as a 'never to do.'

1.7k · February 20, 2006

A lot of people are making this assumption:

Drive by micro = cr*p location

This is not always the case. Sure there are some, but don't tar them all with the same brush.

T

February 20, 2006

A lot of people are making this assumption:

Drive by micro = cr*p location

This is not always the case. Sure there are some, but don't tar them all with the same brush.

T

Yes, I agree with that, spot on. Just because a cache has been placed as a result of it's proximity to somewhere (or because its a micro or so on and etcetera) does not make it a bad cache. The problem is actually when a cache is placed without much thought this is less likely to be enjoyable, and this is more likely to happen in this situation. What we need to resist doing (or is that I would like people to resist, if you don't want to resist it's up to you :laughing: ) is placing a cache with no merit just because of it's proximity to a motorway junction. Are any of the current caches "Bad" caches? I will let you know in the pub after I have done a few while arguing the definition of a "bad" cache.

February 20, 2006

Okay, the site went a bit strange then.

Edited February 20, 2006 by alistair_uk

February 20, 2006

...and next time I will not press refresh after the error message. :laughing:

Edited February 20, 2006 by alistair_uk

3.9k · February 20, 2006

So good he said it thrice :laughing:

1k · February 20, 2006

My opinion is kind of with Lathama....

I agree that if a place has a cache, then that particular place has been "TAKEN" and for someone else to place a cache there for the same reason is just a bit out of order, within the guidelines or not....

Planting it for a different reason however in my opinion is acceptable because there are different things about the same place....

This Motorway Mayhem malarkey falls into the first category, same reason for placing....so why?

February 20, 2006

I see statistics from time to time on here saying that perhaps 5% of the UK caching community actually read this forum, and this is probably a good thing – if some of those cachers, and more especially cache setters, saw how their efforts were disparaged by a few of the more talkative amongst us I’m sure they would cease setting caches.

The whole subject of good and bad caches is so subjective as to be beyond debate. Who is to say what is or not a ‘ good cache ‘?

I’ve only found a few caches compared to many who post here – but of those few caches I can say that I’ve never thought of any of them ‘ Well this is pointless ‘.

I think we need to remember that geocache setting is a peculiarly altruistic exercise – the setter gets nothing in return except the pleasure of the logs. In exchange, he or she takes the effort to set the d*amn thing, make the readings, perhaps fund a ( relatively ) expensive container, and its contents and generally go out of his or her way to allow other people the opportunity to search for a cache.

Without these individuals there would be no sport/hobby/activity and I believe that we should allow them all freedom, within the guidelines, to carry on setting.

civilised

3.9k · February 20, 2006

Totally agree, civilised, I've found 1019 caches and I can think of only three that were totally pointless.

February 21, 2006

...and this is why I will never openly criticise a cache, I will only give my opinion (positive and negative). My only true criticism is when the write up is wrong.

February 21, 2006

Traveling from A to B along some motorways!

but I need something to break the journey up! (need to do some caching)

also need to convince the Mrs it's not too much added to the jouney! (she quite rightly thinks I'm mad!)

advanced planning required! (lots of work ( little time))

plan the route! ( a mile off course here, half a mile off course there)

I know! (MM cache's on the journey will do nicely)

problem solved!

I'm happy! (content)

The Mrs is content! (happy)

3.8k · February 21, 2006

Well done civilised, some people just don't appreciate the efforts that others go to, to make a day out for them.

Whether the cache is good or bad, too many or too little in an area, the person searching for it would have to do a lot of research for their day out if it was not for Geocaching, or they would visit the same places all the time, and not get to see as much.

When I go somewhere I use Geocaching as my tour guide, I have been dissapointed only twice, and then there was plenty more in the area to make up for it.

2.2k · February 21, 2006

why not do us all a favour though and place the micro cache near a junction and also near a nice watering hole/ pub/ cafe??? several birds with one stone. you have a spot to turn off without being shafted by service station.....

2.5k · February 21, 2006

why not do us all a favour though and place the micro cache near a junction and also near a nice watering hole/ pub/ cafe??? several birds with one stone. you have a spot to turn off without being shafted by service station.....

Opinion

Not a bad idea, maybe using a guide similar to the successful "Just off the Motorway Guide" for reference, after all a break usually requires relief or refreshment.

February 21, 2006

why not do us all a favour though and place the micro cache near a junction and also near a nice watering hole/ pub/ cafe??? several birds with one stone. you have a spot to turn off without being shafted by service station.....

Opinion

Not a bad idea, maybe using a guide similar to the successful "Just off the Motorway Guide" for reference, after all a break usually requires relief or refreshment.

What?!? Miss out on watery coffee and overpriced fuel?!? You must be mad!!

That's actually a genius idea and gets my vote!

2.9k · February 21, 2006

why not do us all a favour though and place the micro cache near a junction and also near a nice watering hole/ pub/ cafe??? several birds with one stone. you have a spot to turn off without being shafted by service station.....

Opinion

Not a bad idea, maybe using a guide similar to the successful "Just off the Motorway Guide" for reference, after all a break usually requires relief or refreshment.

Fantastic idea ive got the book in my car wnat any info from it?

February 21, 2006

Opinion: (Just so that you know )

I fall into both camps on this issue. First of all -Why are they there???? Second - What a good way of breaking up a journey.

First - Why are they there?

i'll admit that this opinion only relates to the caches near motorways that i travel often. And out of habit i have certain stop off points. SO I DON'T DO THEM!!!!!!!!!

It's like having a holiday at the campsite at the bottom of the road.

Second - What a good way of breaking up a journey.

I have a toddler, who like most children has a limited time span (awake) for a car journey. So I have used caches motorway and otherwise to break a long journey. So why not have them on the motorways too??

I think that this issue really is about the quality of the cache. and if you don't approve for any reason than either don't do it or leave a polite note for the owner and forward it to the person who approved it. After all we are grown up's in a civilised society

February 21, 2006

So why not have them on the motorways too??

May I refer you to this publication:

I don't think walking down a motorway with GPSr in hand is a good idea.

February 21, 2006

So why not have them on the motorways too??

I don't think walking down a motorway with GPSr in hand is a good idea.

Its one way of being on the news

Ok so not actually on them. (however I knew someone who collected bridge numbers Note how i said KNEW )

Edited February 21, 2006 by The Northern Invaders

February 21, 2006

(however I knew someone who collected bridge numbers Note how i said KNEW )

I wonder if you can log them on GC.com?

February 21, 2006

I wonder if you can log them on GC.com?

It would make an interest earthcahe? I wonder if it's illegal to take a phot whilst driving??

February 21, 2006

Its one way of being on the news

Was Moot when on the news he was stopped when walking down a motorway?

2.2k · February 22, 2006

why not do us all a favour though and place the micro cache near a junction and also near a nice watering hole/ pub/ cafe??? several birds with one stone. you have a spot to turn off without being shafted by service station.....

Opinion

Not a bad idea, maybe using a guide similar to the successful "Just off the Motorway Guide" for reference, after all a break usually requires relief or refreshment.

Fantastic idea ive got the book in my car wnat any info from it?

well if you've a few hours free then work through the list of them and email the owners with decent local stops to change their caches to. or get ready for a load of emails for decent spots. i await the more practical motorway caches to start appearing.

March 1, 2006

Well, three of us did 4 MM caches yesterday on the way home from a meeting and 2 days of caching.

Just some observations.

1st one - not bad - in a layby, just off the junction, fairly easy to get at, but you'd get easily muggled if other vehicles were parked in the layby. Took ages to get to it from the motorway in rush hour. (Serves us right).

2nd one - easy to get to, but cache was amongst some nasty rubbish - it's obvioulsy a place folk just drop rubbish out of the car and the path it's on is only about 10 yards long - only a cut through from one road to another. Also right under the windows of a hotel and parking spaces, also overlooked by nearby houses. Didn't feel too happy looking for this one.

Would not be good in a suit or decent clothes - got tangled in thorn bush.

3rd one - quick to get to, but again, rubbish around.

4th one - quick to get to, but not easy to cross the very busy road in/out of services, and good luck to anyone who tries to park close to it - it's right on the side of a roundabout - muggled by every vehicle going around the roundabout to/fro the services.

During the 3 days we were caching together, we did one that could easily be turned into MM cache with a bit of a move, or a note to say take you boots and a pair of over trousers to stay clean (it was a bit muddy).

Reading the cache pages for several others, we got the feeling that there could now be a quite few caches being put out for the hell of it, just to build the series up. (Record attempts coming soon ??).

Rant over, I'll go back to walking in the country side now - tried them - not sure I like them - but that's my personal opinion.

March 1, 2006

I see statistics from time to time on here saying that perhaps 5% of the UK caching community actually read this forum, and this is probably a good thing – if some of those cachers, and more especially cache setters, saw how their efforts were disparaged by a few of the more talkative amongst us I’m sure they would cease setting caches.

The whole subject of good and bad caches is so subjective as to be beyond debate. Who is to say what is or not a ‘ good cache ‘?

I’ve only found a few caches compared to many who post here – but of those few caches I can say that I’ve never thought of any of them ‘ Well this is pointless ‘.

I think we need to remember that geocache setting is a peculiarly altruistic exercise – the setter gets nothing in return except the pleasure of the logs. In exchange, he or she takes the effort to set the d*amn thing, make the readings, perhaps fund a ( relatively ) expensive container, and its contents and generally go out of his or her way to allow other people the opportunity to search for a cache.

Without these individuals there would be no sport/hobby/activity and I believe that we should allow them all freedom, within the guidelines, to carry on setting.

civilised

Nice one Civilised!

Couldnt agree more.

2.5k · March 1, 2006

I set two MM caches this weekend just gone. I put a lot of effort into it because I was looking for a spot that you could drive to readily, was safe (no running about on main roads), was not muddy (for those in suits), was not too much of a diversion off the motorway (for those people sneaking in a cache or two en route to places). I also wanted to find places that were not completely pointless and were places that I myself would not mind caching in. Finally, I used small caches rather than 35mm cannisters for a bit of extra value - you could leave small swaps if you wanted.

Okay, so these are not the best caches I have ever placed, but I am confident I didn't sling them out just anyhow, as part of a numbers game. I agree that rubbish strewn sites are horrible... but one thing I have learned through caching is what a vile bunch of litter louts a large majority of the UK population seem to be. Many beauty spots are marred by all that trash.

I appreciate the chance for a cache and dash when I am travelling for business and doubtless will be picking away at the other MM caches as and when I pass by. Must say, the journey up the the North East is looking quite tasty now!

March 1, 2006

(however I knew someone who collected bridge numbers Note how i said KNEW )

I wonder if you can log them on GC.com?

naahhh thats on waypointing its like a web site but not

March 2, 2006

Returning to the fist few posts in this topic.... why don't more people who have caches next to motorway junctions add them to the MM list to allow us to search for them easily????? I'm not complaining about the extra caches being introduced though. It has been a great idea. Cheers MaxKim.

1.7k · March 2, 2006

Returning to the fist few posts in this topic.... why don't more people who have caches next to motorway junctions add them to the MM list to allow us to search for them easily?????

Temple View converted.

T

2.5k · March 2, 2006

Well I did, but I admit I did have a brief 'harumph' at these Johnny come lately's expecting us to reformat our caches pages and change the cache names. <_< Yeah, well I got over myself and made the changes to my pre-existing cache at M1 J8, and if it means more people finding my cache, then that's great, and I think the web page and series is a useful way to achieve this.

BTW, perhaps not all the people with caches close to motorway junctions read the forums, and so are unaware of all this? Just a thought....

March 2, 2006

My opinion is kind of with Lathama....

I agree that if a place has a cache, then that particular place has been "TAKEN" and for someone else to place a cache there for the same reason is just a bit out of order, within the guidelines or not....

Planting it for a different reason however in my opinion is acceptable because there are different things about the same place....

This Motorway Mayhem malarkey falls into the first category, same reason for placing....so why?

With regard to placing a cahe in a 'TAKEN' area, I think the correct thing to do would be to cantact the owner of the caxhe that was already there, and ask them if they were ok with you placing a cache in the same woodland/park/whatever. As long as they met the proximity guildlines, what is the problem?

IMO, I think it is quite rude to say that you think that some caches are pointless or no good. Somebody has taken the time and effort to place the cache, even if it doesn't meet your standards.

I only have 3 caches (a fourth on the horizon), all of which I think are pleasant, and get some very nice feedback. I would be devistated if somebody was to tell me that one would be better off not existing!

March 2, 2006

Ive been reading this thread without commenting but did have some thoughts on the matter as a new cacher.

To be honest one of the arguments i read (on the other thread but in a similar vein to this one) about knowing there are caches out spoiling a nice walk out confused me slightly as i enjoy playing the 'that would make a nice spot for a cache' game while im ambling

Also since i dont like travelling miles and miles for a cache on my own as i dont like to rag the mini too much (damned rear subframe need replacing) and prefer saving the further away ones for when im out with zr7 i have no issue with plenty of local ones near to each other and have enjoyed all the ones i have found so far, which by and large have been the local ones on the first page (ie closest to me) with less than ten being further out and look forward to plenty more being placed, Im of the opinion Wiltshire has some stunning countryside which can more than easily support plenty of caches

I also have had some pleasant feedback on my one cache i have placed so far and would give plenty of thought to any i placed in the future so that even if it was near to an existing one it would have its own unique and worthwhile points and would be surprised to find someone objecting to it simply due to it being near another local one. My existing one is near a wombles one (0.5 miles) but placed in such a way that people can enjoy a nice walk around a beautiful lakeside park to find both

I also like the idea of being able to do 4 or 5 walking from one to the next rather than having to car-and-cache. I got into caching to keep fit so having to take a car to all my caches because there are no local ones being placed due to this argument would be a real shame.

Hmm it turned into a longer post than I anticipated but I guess my point is that the game is always evolving so its a more mainstream thing today which is going to mean more caches than there were when some of you all started out but with a few exceptions people probably give thought to these caches and are proud of them. Other like myself like them for the reasons given above so I dont think its too much of a problem. You can always pick and choose the caches you want to find so if Motorway Madness or whatever its called isnt your thing you have plenty more options out there. How can that sort of variety be a bad thing? I dont mind if a supermarket sells five different types of pizza as they all have something worthwhile and different to offer....mmmm pizza, Im done talking rubbish, Im hungry

Happy Caching all

Edited March 2, 2006 by freespirit1402

March 2, 2006

...... My existing one is near a wombles one (0.5 miles) but placed in such a way that people can enjoy a nice walk around a beautiful lakeside park to find both

Your new(ish) cache is in a nice location at Coate Water and encourages visitors because many will enjoy travelling to one location and being able to find two caches.

As far as converting caches is concerned, I've converted an older cache to MM since it may get more visitors and it was originally placed because it was so close to the Motorway (90 seconds away).

Motorway Mayhem Rant

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