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Should This Type Of Cache Be Allowed?


the5Bucks
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I recently submitted a cache that asks people to list Prayers. It looks like this:

 

This is a cache that you can log as a find, and log your prayers. Since it is 2 stages, you can log 2 prayers. The first, for yourself, the second for another. They can be big or small, be specific or vague, or as long or short as you wish. Just list them, and see what happens!

 

For the non spiritual who may visit this cache, you may substitute well wishes. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.

 

It was denied because the reveiwer said that "Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda." Also, "Please keep religion out of geocaching."

My contention is that since I do not mention any paticular Faith or denomination, and also provide alternitives if you should choose not to list a prayer, that this is not "religious", and does not promote an agenda. You can either list a prayer, or not, its that simple. If someone if that easily offended, then I see it as their problem, not mine. I do not necessarily like Harry Potter, but have done many caches with it as a theme. It is not a big deal to me. It seems that tolerance is trumpeted alot these days, unless it involves church. Anyway, off my soapbox now, by my original point remains, this cache seems harmless to me. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks, and Cache On!

  • Surprised 1
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1. The name of this cache is "Prayers" -- not "Prayers and Well Wishes."

 

2. In addition to the text selected above for quotation, there are two prayers included in the cache description, as well as two quotations about the value of prayer.

 

3. The first version of this cache, prior to revision, was quite offensive to me as well as to your local reviewer, and is relevant to ascertaining intent:

For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. We will pray for you.

Please keep your personal agenda off of cache pages.

  • Love 1
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I getting real tired of this rule of geocaching. <_< It your cache and you should be able to whatever you want with it! If someone is offended by your cache, then oh well! Which freedom do you want, freedom to not be offended or freedom to speak your mind! Pick one, it's your future! Fight the power! Oh umm... sometimes I get a little carried away. <_<

  • Surprised 1
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Personally I don't have a problem with it as long as you don't tell me I have to log a prayer to log the cache. Some people are hyper sensitive to religious things and others are just plain hyper religious. Pray for me, don't pray for me, I could care less. Just don't come to my doorstep to do it. <_< If both sides would stop trying to push their views on the others it would be so much easier to get along.

 

That's my opinion and I am sticking to it. <_<

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I getting real tired of this rule of geocaching. <_< It your cache and you should be able to whatever you want with it! If someone is offended by your cache, then oh well! Which freedom do you want, freedom to not be offended or freedom to speak your mind! Pick one, it's your future! Fight the power! Oh umm... sometimes I get a little carried away. <_<

You also have the option to list your cache somewhere else with different rules. The guidelines here are a compromise to keep the most people happy. You can actually do most of the things you want if you consider how to go about in a respectful and polite manner. Saying 'f@#$ you, stupid idiot' will offend most people, but 'You're wrong, I totally disagree because....' should offend only a few.

  • Upvote 1
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Thanks for the feedback so far. Welch, yes, I point out it is not required by saying, "if you think it is stupid, and do not want to participate, That is Ok too, just log your visit." Also, I agree that you can disagree without being disrespectful, and that I what I strive for.

Keystone, you said:

The first version of this cache, prior to revision, was quite offensive to me as well as to your local reviewer, and is relevant to ascertaining intent:
about my original statement: For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. We will pray for you. (which I have since removed). Let me ask you, what is so offensive about that? If you don't believe in prayer then what offends you so much? I don't beleive in Fairies or Trolls, and many caches mention them, but I could care less. Why the hyper sensitivity? Why do you care? Just curious. Also you say
Please keep your personal agenda off of cache pages.
Thats the point: I don't have one. There are many people in geocaching that pray, many that don't. I do not care if you do or don't. You can believe, or not, I do not care. Why should you care if I do? To me, its not an agenda I am trying to promote, I just thought it would be a neat idea. I would like to see peoples reponses. Again, if someone lists a cache that asks you to list a flower you like, does that promote an agenda about gardening?

Prayer is not religious. It is personal. So you say keep religion out of caching, and I say I am. I respect your right to agree or disagree with any idea. You should respect mine. remember, your quote at the bottom of your sig. says "It's only a game."

Exactly! Why take it so seriously?

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IMOHO, religion is a personal matter that should not be promoted or influenced. Granted, many religious people feel that everything in their lives has to have some kind of religious twist to it for whatever reason, but geocaching should be free of any commercial ties. If it's promoting anything except geocaching or CITO, it should be revised. Kinda like how extreme religious groups ban everything that they see fit without thinking about the rest of the population, well, this is the other side of the card.

  • Upvote 1
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I getting real tired of this rule of geocaching. <_< It your cache and you should be able to whatever you want with it! If someone is offended by your cache, then oh well! Which freedom do you want, freedom to not be offended or freedom to speak your mind! Pick one, it's your future! Fight the power! Oh umm... sometimes I get a little carried away. <_<

You also have the option to list your cache somewhere else with different rules. The guidelines here are a compromise to keep the most people happy. You can actually do most of the things you want if you consider how to go about in a respectful and polite manner. Saying 'f@#$ you, stupid idiot' will offend most people, but 'You're wrong, I totally disagree because....' should offend only a few.

 

Certain aggressive churches, they come to our doors and invade our caches they are everywhere.. Hey some us get tired of the constant sermons. If I wanted a sermon I would go to church. Why can't people just be content and feel secure with their beliefs without the need to try to convert the world? I want to have fun geocaching, I don't want to have other's beliefs rammed down my throat while I am out caching. I hate that people put their religious materials in my caches, I toss it out. You have plenty of other venues to promote your agenda, leave geocaching out of it.

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Thanks for the feedback so far. Welch, yes, I point out it is not required by saying, "if you think it is stupid, and do not want to participate, That is Ok too, just log your visit." Also, I agree that you can disagree without being disrespectful, and that I what I strive for.

Keystone, you said:

The first version of this cache, prior to revision, was quite offensive to me as well as to your local reviewer, and is relevant to ascertaining intent:
about my original statement: For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. We will pray for you. (which I have since removed). Let me ask you, what is so offensive about that? If you don't believe in prayer then what offends you so much? I don't beleive in Fairies or Trolls, and many caches mention them, but I could care less. Why the hyper sensitivity? Why do you care? Just curious. Also you say
Please keep your personal agenda off of cache pages.
Thats the point: I don't have one. There are many people in geocaching that pray, many that don't. I do not care if you do or don't. You can believe, or not, I do not care. Why should you care if I do? To me, its not an agenda I am trying to promote, I just thought it would be a neat idea. I would like to see peoples reponses. Again, if someone lists a cache that asks you to list a flower you like, does that promote an agenda about gardening?

Prayer is not religious. It is personal. So you say keep religion out of caching, and I say I am. I respect your right to agree or disagree with any idea. You should respect mine. remember, your quote at the bottom of your sig. says "It's only a game."

Exactly! Why take it so seriously?

 

So if prayer is not religious, then who are you praying to? Yourself?

 

Me personally, I, like George Carlin, worship the sun. Overnight I became

a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But

first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons.

First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could

mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something,

I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I

can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers

in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry,

no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a

special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the

best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm

a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me

fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I

wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

Edited by 5¢
  • Upvote 1
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We have devolved into a society that is tolerant of all things. Except religion.

 

Unless a cache says "It's a box in the woods", people's personal agenda's are coming out to some extent. Most in a very subtle way. If I spent 20 minutes I could probably find a dozen caches that are pushing some type of non religious type agenda, or views, that I may or may not agree with. OK, 2 minutes:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...53-5dc4132924b5

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...62-500f4f91e374

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...3d-3b9f2562ca4c

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...1d-9c8016751c27

 

(nothing against any of these, and they are subtle in their agenda, and there is no intentional agenda, and obviously a "prayer cache" is less subtle)

 

I suggested something very similar to this cache in this thread over 2 years ago:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...topic=59900&hl=

but decided people's intolerance of the idea wouldn't be worthwhile, even if it would have gotten approved.

Edited by ChileHead
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See, the interesting thing is that I am a Christian and so is the rest of our caching team. Do we beleive in Christ? Sure. Do we minister to beleivers and non-beleivers? Sure. But we don't "cram" religion down anyone's throats, and we try to respect the atmosphere of caching by keeping it fun and enjoyable for everyone without compromising our own beliefs.

 

We enjoy caching. We had just gotten our feet wet when the little one was born and just now, almost a year later, got back into it. When I cache, I enjoy getting out and hunting down cache locations. Some are fun while others are a complete waste of time (or are damp and smelling like german cheese) <_<. While I don't get easily offended by cache material, I can easily see why others can and I keep that in mind while caching.

 

I heard somewhere that 90% or more of the world's population beleives in something, and as such religious material tends to be much more sensetive than that of mystical fictitious beings such as trolls and fairies. It's generally a good idea to stick to the subject matter when caching--hide interesting and creative caches that are fun to find and log.

 

We, as a family of cachers, would find it difficult to log a find at a "buddist" cache or a "hari krishna" cache, so it's equally easy to understand why others might find this cache difficult to visit and log. <_< Keep it light and respect the rules--it keeps the playing field equal for all of us.

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We, as a family of cachers, would find it difficult to log a find at a "buddist" cache or a "hari krishna" cache, so it's equally easy to understand why others might find this cache difficult to visit and log. <_< Keep it light and respect the rules--it keeps the playing field equal for all of us.

 

Myself, as a Christian, would not. I am very tolerant of other religions, and don't find offense at any of them (well, unless they start blasting me.) I would have no issues logging a buddist cache or a muslim cache. I've studied other world religions and am very interested in their roots and culture. Saying you are "offended" at the display of religion is just another way of saying you are intolerant.

 

The proposed cache was very light ... it wasn't pushing any particular agenda.

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We have devolved into a society that is tolerant of all things. Except religion.

 

Unless a cache says "It's a box in the woods", people's personal agenda's are coming out to some extent. Most in a very subtle way. If I spent 20 minutes I could probably find a dozen caches that are pushing some type of non religious type agenda, or views, that I may or may not agree with. OK, 2 minutes:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...53-5dc4132924b5

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...62-500f4f91e374

 

So what's the agenda that the 12 little boys and one girl of cub scout pack 13 are pushing. I looked at both cache pages and didn't see anything. Must be real subtle. Just looks like some elementary kids having some fun <_<

I dont get it.

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I am religeous. My religion is atheism. It is my belief, and my belief only. That will not, however, stop me from logging finds on Christian, Buddist or Hari Krishnan caches.

 

I also doesn't stop me from volunteering for what I deem worthy causes, like repairing hurricane damage in FL, flood damage locally, or helping Habitat for Humanity. All are or are overseen by Christian religious organizations.

 

My point is that I have my beliefs, everyone else has their own beliefs. They may or may not be the same as mine, but it is not within my right to decide whose beliefs are valid and whose are not. I will accept any religious view (within reason) as long as you accept mine.

 

As for caches: In a perfect world, a religious cache should be fine, as long as believing in a certain religion is not a condition for being able to log a find.

 

In the real world, there are too many people who are intolerant of any belief that is not in line with their own, causing problems for the rest of us.

 

Because of that reason I can understand why any caches with an (obvious) religious agenda are not allowed.

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It seems to me that the 'no agenda' rule is a loophole that allows approvers to further thier own agenda. Don't get me wrong, the approvers mostly do a great job, but this rule is so vague, it begs abuse. 'Proclaim Jesus as the only true God cache' woulod be over the top. 'Repent or die cache' might be a bit much. 'Fill out the Democratic Voter Registration form cache' would be a bit much. But 'say a prayer'... come on. If you are religious (pretty much any religion), prayer is no problem. If you are an Athiest, say a prayer to Alan Watts and laugh.

 

I thought the 'agenda' rule was to stop McDs, churches, and orgs like scouts from doing commercial solicitation caches (like eat a burger and sign the log or become a member to log cache). End of rant

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I am religeous. My religion is atheism. It is my belief, and my belief only. That will not, however, stop me from logging finds on Christian, Buddist or Hari Krishnan caches.

 

I also doesn't stop me from volunteering for what I deem worthy causes, like repairing hurricane damage in FL, flood damage locally, or helping Habitat for Humanity. All are or are overseen by Christian religious organizations.

 

My point is that I have my beliefs, everyone else has their own beliefs. They may or may not be the same as mine, but it is not within my right to decide whose beliefs are valid and whose are not. I will accept any religious view (within reason) as long as you accept mine.

 

As for caches: In a perfect world, a religious cache should be fine, as long as believing in a certain religion is not a condition for being able to log a find.

 

In the real world, there are too many people who are intolerant of any belief that is not in line with their own, causing problems for the rest of us.

 

Because of that reason I can understand why any caches with an (obvious) religious agenda are not allowed.

Perfect, That is what I WANTED to sayin the firs place, very well spoken sir.

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What a bunch of crap. Heaven forbid people just read the cache description and decide on their own whether or not to go do this cache on their own. <_<

 

Here's an idea. Don't say ANYTHING on the cache page, and then just put whatever the heck you want in the box, including the invitation to log a prayer if the finder wants.

 

Of course, then you'd have someone come in here complaining "Wah!! I found a cache that dared to mention prayer!"

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I sure bet an athiest cache would be frowned upon.

 

That's an interesting point. I wonder what an atheist cache would consist of? The requirement to read the works of Bertrand Russell or perhaps a biography of O'Hair?

 

A cache that de-bunks Creationism (or its black-sheep son I.D.) wouldn't meet the requirements, because not all believers believe in the creation myths.

 

...Rhetorical questions, carry on.

 

EDIT> Speeling

Edited by Team Teuton
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It seems to me that the 'no agenda' rule is a loophole that allows approvers to further thier own agenda.

As with all guidelines, there is room for judgment and interpretation. 520 feet is close to 528 feet between caches. 100 feet is too close to a school, but what about 500 feet? A brief mention of a religious theme is one thing, a pervasive theme throughout the cache description is another.

 

There are shades of grey, and different standards prevail around the world as each site volunteer strives to do their best to uphold and interpret the listing guidelines fairly. Unless you prefer rigid rules that never bend, please deal with that.

 

The volunteer group's only agenda is to publish those caches which meet the listing guidelines, and to question and help fix those which do not.

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I am religeous. My religion is atheism. It is my belief, and my belief only. That will not, however, stop me from logging finds on Christian, Buddist or Hari Krishnan caches.

 

I also doesn't stop me from volunteering for what I deem worthy causes, like repairing hurricane damage in FL, flood damage locally, or helping Habitat for Humanity. All are or are overseen by Christian religious organizations.

 

My point is that I have my beliefs, everyone else has their own beliefs. They may or may not be the same as mine, but it is not within my right to decide whose beliefs are valid and whose are not. I will accept any religious view (within reason) as long as you accept mine.

 

As for caches: In a perfect world, a religious cache should be fine, as long as believing in a certain religion is not a condition for being able to log a find.

 

In the real world, there are too many people who are intolerant of any belief that is not in line with their own, causing problems for the rest of us.

 

Because of that reason I can understand why any caches with an (obvious) religious agenda are not allowed.

 

Well said. People have views, they discuss their views and an amazing number of people agree with each other. Enough to where with 6 billion people on the planet we don't have 6 billion variations of faith even if we do have 6 billion views on it.

 

This cache comes down to soliciation. Is it soliciting if you are not actually required to do anything? I don't know the original version that Keystone and the reviewer found offensive. An interesting thing about prayer. It has been measured by science to have real benefits though they haven't been able to do much more than see a correlation.

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For reasons that are not mysterious

The weak are sent to the wall

They have reservations in heaven

Down here they're not so fashionable

 

Don't help me I can save myself

If I'm incomplete don`t fill the gaps

Save me from the people who would save me from my sin

They got muscle for brains

 

- Gang of Four, Muscle for brains

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We have devolved into a society that is tolerant of all things. Except religion.

 

Unless a cache says "It's a box in the woods", people's personal agenda's are coming out to some extent. Most in a very subtle way. If I spent 20 minutes I could probably find a dozen caches that are pushing some type of non religious type agenda, or views, that I may or may not agree with. OK, 2 minutes:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...53-5dc4132924b5

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...62-500f4f91e374

 

So what's the agenda that the 12 little boys and one girl of cub scout pack 13 are pushing. I looked at both cache pages and didn't see anything. Must be real subtle. Just looks like some elementary kids having some fun <_<

I dont get it.

 

The scouts have an agenda (which I support, by the way.) I'm just saying that there are many caches out there that indirectly have an agenda. Banning anything remotely religious just seems silly.

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The scouts have an agenda (which I support, by the way.) I'm just saying that there are many caches out there that indirectly have an agenda. Banning anything remotely religious just seems silly.

 

I think the problem on this one is that it isn't remotely religious. It is very religious if you read the original post followed by Keystone's post.

 

I have to side with Keystone on this one. It doesn't belong anymore than a cache that forcefully promotes Islam, Satanism, Buddism, Liberalism or Consevatism. I don't mind themed caches where the theme is secondary to the cache, but caches with politcal or religious themes where participation in the theme is strongly (forcefully) invoked should not be approved, in my opinion. :lol:

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Y'know...I try my best to care about this topic every time it comes up. I honestly do...but I just can't.

 

Look, if your life doesn't tell people about what's important to you, chances are your cache won't either. Just live it. If they want it, they'll catch it.

 

I get paid for saying stuff like that every week....this is no charge though.

 

Bret

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I getting real tired of this rule of geocaching. :lol: It your cache and you should be able to whatever you want with it! If someone is offended by your cache, then oh well! Which freedom do you want, freedom to not be offended or freedom to speak your mind! Pick one, it's your future! Fight the power! Oh umm... sometimes I get a little carried away. :o

 

If you truly feel this upset about it there is another place you can visit that will allow you to have it all...

 

To answer the question and remain on topic- For the pure fact the OP did not post everything and was called out by a mod/reviewer I pray for you....I have seen "Your Going To Hell" flyers before in caches and yes it is someones right to remove them, to read, them, to place them, but to center a cache around a prayer you might want to rework it, subtract prayer and try "devotions" or some other word

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I never understand the problems behind these unapproved caches.

 

The cache hiders will swear there is no agenda to them, but will bristle at the idea of changing them. If there's no agenda behind this one, I guess there would no problem changing it, to let's say, "Thoughts of the Day", or the like.

 

The fact that they hold on so tightly to the cache as is, though it has no bearing whatsoever on the actual configuration of the cache, makes them reek of agenda to me.

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1. The name of this cache is "Prayers" -- not "Prayers and Well Wishes."

 

2. In addition to the text selected above for quotation, there are two prayers included in the cache description, as well as two quotations about the value of prayer.

 

3. The first version of this cache, prior to revision, was quite offensive to me as well as to your local reviewer, and is relevant to ascertaining intent:

For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. We will pray for you.

Please keep your personal agenda off of cache pages.

 

I guess my problem is I don't understand what is offensive about someone threatening(?) to pray for you. I mean, if you believe, the response would be 'thanks'. If not, the response would be 'ha ha, he's wasting his time'.

 

And I guess I like my rules the same across the board and strictly enforced. That's probably my 16+ yrs in the military talking, though.

 

On the other hand, this is a game, so I guess I can't fault the game-masters from making the rules, even if I don't always agree with them. Thanks, Keystone, for volunteering your time and efforts to a hobby I've become hopelessly addicted to. I've done a few caches in your neck of the wood (originally from Pittsburgh), and you guys up there do a good job.

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I guess my problem is I don't understand what is offensive about someone threatening(?) to pray for you. I mean, if you believe, the response would be 'thanks'. If not, the response would be 'ha ha, he's wasting his time'.

 

 

It's the tone of voice (belittling tone) "Oh, dear me, you are SO to be pitied." *makes hand gesture with fingers moving in a downward motion*

 

"I pray, therefore I am better than you, you heathen dirt bag scumbucket"

 

It is so shop-warn that the tone comes through even in context-less print.

 

Placed right after "stupid", it is pertineer fightin words.

Edited by Confuse-A-Cat
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NO!!! I don't think it should be listed as is.

The name of this cache is "Prayers" -- not "Prayers and Well Wishes."

I would name it "Well Wishes" if I wanted to try and list one like the description below

This is a cache that you can do as normal plus log Well Wishes. Since it is 2 stages, you can log Two Wishes, both stages have log books but you can only log the Second stage find online. The first Wish can be for yourself, the second for another person. They can be big or small, be specific or vague, or as long or short as you wish. Just list them in the Well Wishes log book! The Second stage also has the normal swag and normal log book. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit at the Second Stage.

 

Do Religion and Politics have to enter everything in our lifes? I hope not. I just go Geocaching when I get the urge and enjoy it, when I get the urge to say a prayer I do that as well. I also think that if you don't care for the rules of the game here you can list your cache elsewhere but if you want to play here you have to accept that not everyone here accepts your point of view. I do.

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Lets for arguments sake say I am a devil worshipper and I place a cache that requires that you sacrifice a virgin or burn an upside down cross or whatever they do. It is not a requirement that this is done if you don't want to, but it is the first thing you read in the description. That would seriously cause some upset with some people.

 

As previously stated the guidelines are there to keep most of the people happy, if you are in the minority, accept it and move on. It could be seen as respecting other people as well.

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THE TRUTH by Mr. Athiest

This cache is to help educate finders about the beliefs of Atheists. We know there is no God. Not as most people who "believe" think there is one. There is no all-knowing, all-seeing being who created the Universe and the Earth in a few days. The purpose of this cache is...

 

...[more stuff]...

 

Now, when loggin this cache, if you want, you can say a few things for someone who might not yet understand that when you close your eyes for the last time there is nothingness. The beauty is you'll never know. Help your family and friends to stop wasting time with religion.

 

If you think this is stupid and you think you're going to some Eden in the sky, and still want to log this cache, you can, but we know better.

 

hmm...

 

Everything being equal and the OP's cache, and those like it, was approved how well would the above cache be accepted?

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THE TRUTH by Mr. Athiest

This cache is to help educate finders about the beliefs of Atheists. We know there is no God. Not as most people who "believe" think there is one. There is no all-knowing, all-seeing being who created the Universe and the Earth in a few days. The purpose of this cache is...

 

...[more stuff]...

 

Now, when loggin this cache, if you want, you can say a few things for someone who might not yet understand that when you close your eyes for the last time there is nothingness. The beauty is you'll never know. Help your family and friends to stop wasting time with religion.

 

If you think this is stupid and you think you're going to some Eden in the sky, and still want to log this cache, you can, but we know better.

 

hmm...

 

Everything being equal and the OP's cache, and those like it, was approved how well would the above cache be accepted?

 

Well, I am about as much "fundamentalist Christian" as one can get and not be dancing in funny robes. Would the proposed cache offend me? No. Would I visit it? Yes. Would I pray for and feel sorry for the cache owner? Yes--even though he may not care or even be aware. I don't feel the need, though, to tell the cache owner I'm praying for him; my God is not so petty as to need me to advertise my prayer for an individual in order for Him to do his Work.

 

Salvation (or lack in the belief of salvation) is a PERSONAL thing--it's between you and God (or you and nothingness, if that's what you believe). Christians do have a scriptual obligation to "evangelize" (to be a light on a hill and all that)--but remember, a light on a hill doesn't criticize people, get in their faces, or admonish people that they're sitting in darkness. My God is also not so petty as to need ME in order for Him to do his Work.

 

That said, I understand why this cache was denied: not everyone really has a panache for being tolerant (as evidenced in some of the postings on this thread). In a perfect world, the original posted cache should be approved and hunters will either visit it or not according to their desires. But because people lack open mindedness (for lots of things, not just Christianity) it's best not to rock the boat too much.

 

I do like the idea, though, of just making a statement "This is a cache" and just putting a prayer log in there.

 

One last thought for believers and unbelievers alike: we cannot hope to build a nation of tolerance by being intolerant of people's beliefs. Accepting or rejecting something just because it mentions Christ, or Buddha, or the great Nothingness is laying the foundations for division in this country. Can't we all just get along?

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To quote the guidelines:

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Its not a matter tolerance, its a matter of what is appropriate for a cache. Whether a cache is promoting prayer, Christianity, Rastafarianism, clean air or bunion awareness they don't belong on this site.

Edited by briansnat
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Even though it seems that other caches which might be equally guilty of "agenda" do exist, and even thoigh I disagree with Keystone's assessment - that is not a reason for any particular cache approver to stop trying to apply that standard as he sees fit.

 

I may not think that the OP's cache offends the rule - but he should accept the approver's final decision and move on. Modify the cache to meet his/her approval, or find a listing service that will accept it as is. But no one should assume that all caches will be held to the same standard with all approvers (standards and enforcement being somewhat iffy), and this whole thread of argument kinda shows why the OP's cache is even an issue with the site management.

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