Jump to content

Geocaching Public Relations


Trippers

Recommended Posts

First, to the comment earlier that we "have our head in the sand" if we think that a regime change would make a difference, think again. Without any doubt, it will.

 

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB 8/5/04

 

Yeah, its a funny slip of the tongue, ha-ha. That doesn't change the fact that these people are out to kill us. The first WTC bombing was meant to take down the tower. Luckily it failed, or the loss of life would have made 9/11 pale in comparison. I seem to recall a different regime was in power in the US at that time.

 

The 9/11 attacks were planned long before the current regime took office. If anyone thinks that a "regime change" in this country will take us off the target list, they are mistaken. We were targets before the current administration, we are targets now and we will be targets long after they are out of office.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment

"Police Capt. John Sarnicky said the department wants to know where the caches are. If police knew the locations, he said, they would still have to investigate calls about suspicious packages but could possibly tailor their response."

 

This is a good reason why being able to see a map of all the caches in a nearby area available to the public (not just premium members) would be beneficial. PD could just put in the zip and see where all the caches are.

 

Also, something like this I'd suggest people put geocaching.com and the waypoint on the outside of the container. That way, if hte above doesn't come true PD doesn't have to go through the entire lists of caches in an area to see if one of them could possibly be the object in question.

Link to comment

i did alot of research on this topic today, and ive figured out what geocaching is going to come down to; No more ammo box's, you are going to have to buy a special container rite from the GC.com website, and Gc.com will do a background check on you.

iI honestly think this is what our family sport is going to turn into, your gonna have so much paper work to fill out, you just wont wanna do it and there will be no more geocaching all because of a man who didn't take time to research the topic but thats only what i think.

Link to comment

First, to the comment earlier that we "have our head in the sand" if we think that a regime change would make a difference, think again. Without any doubt, it will.

 

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB 8/5/04

 

Yeah, its a funny slip of the tongue, ha-ha. That doesn't change the fact that these people are out to kill us. The first WTC bombing was meant to take down the tower. Luckily it failed, or the loss of life would have made 9/11 pale in comparison. I seem to recall a different regime was in power in the US at that time.

 

The 9/11 attacks were planned long before the current regime took office. If anyone thinks that a "regime change" in this country will take us off the target list, they are mistaken. We were targets before the current administration, we are targets now and we will be targets long after they are out of office.

 

As long as the globalist neocons (PNAC) control our government, we will be a target regardless of which party is in the Admin seat, until we as US citizens wake up and stop voting for either dumb or dumber (you can fill in which party is which based on you own personal bias) :huh: and create a ligitimate 3rd party solution.

 

Is it time for a new Revolution? :ph34r:

 

Pass due if you ask me ;)

Edited by Roland_oso
Link to comment

I see your 948 posts so I'm assuming thicker than normal skin..this is not for you in particular but for all the ones that leave comments like

"At least they didn't blow up this one"

I am in bomb disposal and if you could even fathom walking up on a suspect item that "may" kill you so that you may make life safe for the general public you would never post such comments. Someone a while back even went as far as calling the BDU idiots for destroying an AMMO CAN!! Ammo cans have a certain quazi military personality to them and in an unknown situation will be treated as suspect by any BDU anywhere.

BTW this article already has a long thread on it.

 

Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) is a science of vague assumptions based on debatable figures derived from inconclusive experiments, performed by persons of doubtful mental capability with instruments of problematic accuracy.

 

everyone hug a bomb tech today

 

Care to help write a manual on how to place a cache and minimize the chances of it getting reported as a suspicouse object?

Link to comment

highly useless post Mr Knight

I don't think geocaching will or has to become anything secretive or regulated to the extreme if we just take part in ensuring it doesn't happen. Ammo cans will remain an excellent choice for geocaches and inevitably some will be mistaken for suspect items. Fact of life....even before 9-11. I myself have an ammo can out there.

The fact of the matter here is this can in particular was called in as suspect and it was treated as such in a proffesional manner. This will happen again....and again.

The solution is in our hands not the LEA's. they should not be required to watch over GC.com for the latest cache submissions. Where I live they are already busy enough. We're the ones with time on our hands to go trudging thru the woods looking for treasure.

As far as a box in the woods not causing mass response and havoc....this one did

Edited by canningclan
Link to comment

So, bottom line as I see it:

1) This is gonna happen in the post 9-11 world

2) We need to do everything possible to keep it from happening, but see #1

 

And on a lighter note, I'm a 16yr MSgt in the AF, and I have some good friends in EOD as well as some SF engineers (demining, etc.). They're all a little crazy and love to blow stuff up. If they get called, chances are, it's getting blown up. I mean that in the best possible way, really. As a red blooded, semi-grown up man, I'd take every chance I get to blow something up too! No offense, I hope, CanningClan.

Link to comment

haha NotNuts....gave me a giggle, you're soooooo right.

my involvement in this thread was a bit skewed by two threads being combined. I originally started out defending the actions of an emergency response team and it has been taken off on a tangent.

I do feel the agencies involved acted accordingly if not quite reserved, by the article it is obvious that they cooperated with each other and they should be applauded not demeaned

Link to comment

... The first WTC bombing was meant to take down the tower. Luckily it failed, or the loss of life would have made 9/11 pale in comparison. I seem to recall a different regime was in power in the US at that time. ...

Frequently, people seam to 'pass the buck' for 9/11 to President Clinton because President G.W. Bush had only been in office for eight months when the attack occured. Using the same logic, you will note that the original WTC bombing occured only 36 days into President Clinton's first term. One would assume that the attack took more than one month to plan and implement, therefore placing 'blame' for it on President G.H.W. Bush.

 

What does all this mean? Probably nothing. The terrorists will likely try to kill us no matter who is in office because the policies that they disagree with not likely to change.

 

NOTE: Sorry, Quiggle. I posted before reading you admonition.

Edited by sbell111
Link to comment

This is the cache in question, a "travel bug prison" which is being discussed in this thread in the Travel Bug Forum. Pulling up the maps and aerial photos, one can certainly understand how a transportation worker might observe a geocacher from the nearby highway.

 

I am puzzled; the news article says that a park official gave permission for the cache. The cache location looks to be well east of the park that is on the other side of the railroad tracks.

 

Man! Between collecting and hoarding other people's travel bugs over a period of months to put them in a "take one leave one" TB prison, and refusing to cooperate with the authorities on the location of his other caches, this guy is getting no love in the forums. And you know what? He shouldn't be getting any.

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
Link to comment

I'm not sure I fully believe the story as it's written. While I know there are a lot of personalities out there, I find it hard to believe that a Geocacher (and specifically one who has hidden caches) refuses to inform the police when asked the location of his caches.

 

Someone finally noticed that the article seems...badly written. I also doubt that the cacher 'refused' to inform the police of the locations because it would ruin the thrill of the game; Then any pq would ruin the thrill of the game. The alleged comment from the parks director that the cache was supposed to be buried also seems a little suspect. One can only guess what else in the article is being mis-reported.

Link to comment

On another kinda sorta related note... I read an article within the past week from the Chaffee County Times newspaper from Buena Vista Colorado that a couple out geocaching stumbled upon a METH LAB along some dirt road. They, of course, alerted the authorities to investigate and clean up. Imagine if the container had leaked and sent whatever people put in Meth into our ground water supplies. Maybe we should start carrying hand-guns and wearing bullet proof vests just in case when we're out on the trail... :laughing:

Link to comment

I have been asked to post here to clear up a few details so here I am.

 

1. The reference that I refused to disclose other locations wasn't entirely true and came from the investigating officer.

 

2. I have recovered from the police most of the remains of the cache.

 

3. I spoke to the Deputy Police Commissioner and he is quite on-board with geocaching. He agrees that the city needs to be educated about it. He does not have a problem with the caches being in the city

 

4. I spoke to the officer in charge of the Community Services Unit and he would love to have a Cache in Trash out event planned for the city (I am hoping to accomplish this goal). I Invited him to our breakfast event on the 25 and I hope he will attend.

 

5. I have provided police with the locations and discriptions of my other caches as well as my contact info. I also have a direct number to the desk sargent for other cachers in the city to "register" their caches with the com center so this doesn't happen again.

 

 

I hope this clears up a few things and if anyone has a question feel free to contact me or post here and I will do my best to answer them.

 

Happy Caching

Fren-Z

Edited by Fren-Z
Link to comment

highly useless post Mr Knight

I don't think geocaching will or has to become anything secretive or regulated to the extreme if we just take part in ensuring it doesn't happen. Ammo cans will remain an excellent choice for geocaches and inevitably some will be mistaken for suspect items. Fact of life....even before 9-11. I myself have an ammo can out there.

The fact of the matter here is this can in particular was called in as suspect and it was treated as such in a proffesional manner. This will happen again....and again.

The solution is in our hands not the LEA's. they should not be required to watch over GC.com for the latest cache submissions. Where I live they are already busy enough. We're the ones with time on our hands to go trudging thru the woods looking for treasure.

As far as a box in the woods not causing mass response and havoc....this one did

 

To the contrary. It doesn’t matter that I understand and agree with everything in your post (except that first bit). What matters is that perception is the thing that drives politics.

 

Geocaching is harmless. Sheriffs grandstand and threaten to press charges anyway. Ammo cans are great containers, parks specify clear ones anyway. And so it goes.

 

The value of the manual is that it’s a tool in the arsenal of Risk Communications. Even if the manual can’t be done, the fact that we have tried for years counts. If you have been trained in Risk Communications then you know what I mean. If you haven’t. Such is life. I will add that in your field that training should be mandatory.

Link to comment

Fren-Z,

It seems as if you have covered many bases in educating the proper authorities. It is sad that our country has come to this, but it sounds like it may be a way of life for some time to come. I hope this does not discourage you or other responsible geocachers. I look forward to crossing paths with you again at future events and caches. I can't help but chuckle about Tyson getting in the middle of the ruckus! I am sure he also helped to diffuse the situation. We will have lots to talk about at future events.

You have our support.

Keep caching (and counting those seconds!)

julie

Link to comment

To call anyone in that line of work an idot is disgraceful!

Hmmm -- this requires us to assume that a particular occupation is closed to idiots. I have seen nothing to indicate that to be the case with any occupation, so presumably there are bomb disposal idiots like in any other field. Probably they never achieve much seniority.....

 

Note: this is not to say that I don't hold bomb disposal techs in high esteem, or that I am not in awe at the job they do.

 

I've got a few caches that are in ammo cans, but I'm not sure I'll put any more out (in ammo cans.) Methinks there are less ominous kinds of containers. Too bad, because ammo cans are definitely the best.

 

Personal note to canningclan: I may never get the chance to give you that hug. But if I ever see you running, I will try to keep up!

Link to comment

Yes we all hate to see this type pf publicity but it is bound to happen at some time. Let me set some of the things straight. The Cache was not on park property it was on public land used for a car pool lot-bus stop pickup. Cache was clearly marked as to what it was. Area was in the open, but well away from the people and it was somewhat lit. I had on a light colored coat and got in my car ....not on the bus! and went to work. And the person to follow me knew nothing of the game but his co-worker did and told everyone it was just a game and he knew about it, but you read the end results. Since this incident the Bethlehem police and Fren-z have been working together and have formulated a way to keep this alive and well in their area. Now I have to convince the Allentown police to do the same. I will be talking again with them this week. Also Channel 69 news has picked this up and I want to educate the public on this. Any ideas, comments, I can use for tomorrow, please let me know. I will check back in tonight as now I have a day of caching fun ahead !!!!!!

Link to comment

Yes we all hate to see this type pf publicity but it is bound to happen at some time. Let me set some of the things straight. The Cache was not on park property it was on public land used for a car pool lot-bus stop pickup.

Thank you for your post. It partly answers a question I asked way back at the beginning of the thread:

I am puzzled; the news article says that a park official gave permission for the cache. The cache location looks to be well east of the park that is on the other side of the railroad tracks.

I am still having trouble figuring out how the director of the "city Parks and Public Property Department" gave permission for the cache. Does that agency's jurisdiction extend beyond parks, covering all "public property" such as a patch of woods behind a park and ride lot? Looking at the cache location in Google Maps, I was having trouble imagining a "park" tucked in between an expressway and a park and ride.

 

40cde726-d017-4094-952a-fdca2a849b95.jpg

Link to comment

I am still having trouble figuring out how the director of the "city Parks and Public Property Department" gave permission for the cache. Does that agency's jurisdiction extend beyond parks, covering all "public property" such as a patch of woods behind a park and ride lot? Looking at the cache location in Google Maps, I was having trouble imagining a "park" tucked in between an expressway and a park and ride.

 

I can't say for certain, but it is possible. His title IS* director of the city Parks and Public Property Department, right?

In my position as a supervisor with a municipal parks and recreation department, I oversee ALL land owned by the town. Not just the parks, but also the grounds of town buildings, memorials, green areas, and historic cemeteries. If my town owned the parking lot, and there was open land around it, I would be be the one to advise the director if a geocache was appropriate there.

Link to comment
When are people going to figure out that all this yap about terrorist is just that so we can get back to living like we did before the 9-11 hysteria started?
Perhaps in the next administation.

 

If you think terrorism issues are a figment of this administration's imagaination, I urge you to get your head out of the sand. There are people out there who want to kill Americans, as many of us as possible. 9/11 was just the appetizer in their minds.

 

Complacency on our part will only guarantee that they will succeed. Calling in suspicious packages near high traffic areas or suspicious activity is not hysteria, its reasonable vigilance. It wasn't long ago that 192 people were slaughtered and over 2,000 were injured by bombs hidden in Tupperware next to train tracks.

 

Unfortunately we will never get back to living like we did pre 9/11 as long as the world is full of these religious fanatics who would like nothing better than to destroy every one of us infidels.

 

Well put, Brian. I'm sick and tired of people who blame "this administration" for the terrorism paranoia that exists out there today. Unfortunately, these are probably the same people that would be the first to jump down the administration's throat the minute our guard was lowered to the point where another 9/11 happened.

 

Perhaps the reason we haven't been attacked in 4 1/2 years is BECAUSE of vigilance - not despite it. Like you, I work in the Capital region. Don't think I don't walk into the Pentagon every single day and don't think about having a giant target on my head, and don't think I don't appreciate the very large men with very large guns working to make sure that I don't.

Link to comment

First, to the comment earlier that we "have our head in the sand" if we think that a regime change would make a difference, think again. Without any doubt, it will.

 

You're right about that, if the next administration is like the previous one, we will all be TOLD we can put our heads BACK in the sand with THEM.

 

Bad people will always be "out there" and if anyone thinks having a R or a D in the Whitehouse is going to change that, they truly have their head in the sand (or perhaps there head is UP somewhere else).

 

The only "regime change" that will "make a difference" is the total annihilation of Alqaeda and all similar groups so organized and so disposed.

 

Then another ten will probably spring up to take their place.

 

If we EVER stop the vigilence started with 9/11, we are truly Dumb Donkeys.

Link to comment

Has anyone ever seen a bomb that was in an ammo can?

 

Yes, unfortunately ammo cans have been used for bomb containers. But how likely is it that a bomber would place a bomb beside a tree in the woods. You have to assume that the guy hates squirrels?

 

It is interesting that so many people assume a sinsister purpose for anything they do not easily understand. A metal box in the woods must be a bomb. A person searching for something in a park must be doing something evil.

 

And then there are those who can put a political spin on ANY issue or event.

 

Sigh.

 

FWIW, CharlieP

Link to comment

A couple of quotes from the article really made me think:

 

"A PennDOT worker salting roads about 5:30 a.m. Tuesday saw a woman in dark clothes walk down a Bethlehem hill, pause at a tree along Hellertown Road near the Interstate 78 overpass, turn around and get on a bus."

 

Wow, I had no idea we, as a society, had progressed to the point where someone pausing beside a tree is considered suspicious.

 

"This is something people can have an absolute blast doing.''

 

Please tell me the reporter made that quote up as a joke. :laughing: Given that the bomb squad showed up I'm thinking "blast" may not have been the best choice of words.

Link to comment
Once again:

Did you recuperate all 10 Travel Bugs?

Are you going to release them soon?

Thank you,

 

blackjack65,

 

You might want to try emailing him directly. Based on his posting history, I don't anticipate that he's going to be reading the forums on a daily basis. If you have a concern about the TBs or a particular TB, email is the best way to go.

 

Quiggle

Link to comment

I see your 948 posts so I'm assuming thicker than normal skin..this is not for you in particular but for all the ones that leave comments like

"At least they didn't blow up this one"

I am in bomb disposal and if you could even fathom walking up on a suspect item that "may" kill you so that you may make life safe for the general public you would never post such comments. Someone a while back even went as far as calling the BDU idiots for destroying an AMMO CAN!! Ammo cans have a certain quazi military personality to them and in an unknown situation will be treated as suspect by any BDU anywhere.

BTW this article already has a long thread on it.

 

Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) is a science of vague assumptions based on debatable figures derived from inconclusive experiments, performed by persons of doubtful mental capability with instruments of problematic accuracy.

 

everyone hug a bomb tech today

 

Here's a quick question for you from someone who has accidentally caused the EOD (BDU) to come out a few times (not for caching, but a few other things):

 

Do you treat the suspect object differently depending on its location? For example... if you have an ammo box marked "This is a game: www.geocaching.com" that is found under a bridge or near the foundation of a building. Do you treat that with more suspect than a similar object found under an UPOS in the middle of the woods?

 

On a completely different note... is it possible for a bomb sniffing dog to hit on a visual cue rather than a scent cue, if the object is the same as one used in the dogs training?

 

The reason I ask is that one of the times that I caused EOD to come out was because a dog kept hitting on my camelback. It had never had anything but water in it, and the electronic sensors detected nothing. One of the EOD guys later told me that it was the exact same model of camelback they used when training the dogs.

Link to comment

Dogs for the most part are not really capable of reasoning so yes I'm sure visual cues could or would affect them (I have no experience with dogs).

To answer your first question...yes, location and item description are all part and parcel with risk assessment and final handling of any situation. I cannot really go any further as each case is always different.

It's too bad this thread got off on a tangent, I may be partly responsible for that. I think a healthy discussion on possible means to avoid this in the future is needed. can we have that here??? Doubtful.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for that so.....fill your boots

Link to comment

If the Police asked me I would certainly cooperate. I would try to educate them to the whole process. Go to WWW.geocaching.com and look me up you find all of my caches there and that there are thousands in our city and tens of thousands in our state. I might even take them to a hunt for one of my caches! Show them how much fun it is and in all likelyhood resolve the whole situation right there and maybe get someone new hooked!

Link to comment

I am still having trouble figuring out how the director of the "city Parks and Public Property Department" gave permission for the cache. Does that agency's jurisdiction extend beyond parks, covering all "public property" such as a patch of woods behind a park and ride lot? Looking at the cache location in Google Maps, I was having trouble imagining a "park" tucked in between an expressway and a park and ride.

 

That's probably WHY they gave permission. No liability if it isn't in their jurisdiction. They probably shrugged their shoulders, looked blankly, and said, "Sure... why not?" :ph34r: ("...and if anyone asks, just tell 'em I said it was OK" :lol::anitongue::laughing: )

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...