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Earthcache Waymarks Ignored


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In the four months since Earthcaches were relagated to Waymarking it appears that cachers ignore the Waymarking site. Earthcaches on gc.com continue getting logs (very positive I might add) while the new earthcaches on wm.com have been completely ignored.

 

As I recall some of the discussions on the effects of shunting the cache types that were deemed not worthy to wm.com, this is what some people predicted would happen. :)

 

I should take the attitude of its your loss not mine. I still get to go out and find these places myself. Playing the game my own way :D:D

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It will be better when they don't move it way down to the bottom of the forums :P

 

Hey! There's a Waymarkin forum? Well whata ya know?

 

I like my Earthcache. People are still hitting it. I'd hate to think of what would have happened to it if were over at the WM.com site (Won'tMatter.com).

 

I"ve been to the WM site. I'm not sure what it is. I started reading, but I couldn't figure out how I could contribute. So I left and haven't been back.

 

I was thinking about doing another Earthcache, but if it's a WM feature, who cares anymore?

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I have to agree i don't like the Waymarking site. I would like to see the earth caches back at GC.com. I think they added to the experience. I also think in our struggle to maintain the integrity of the sport they were a great tool for educators and for parents to teach kids about our planet. I look forward to doing some of the ones still on GC but won't bother with Waymarking. They were also a great way to Geo Cache in our parks where we can no longer put physical caches.

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I have to agree i don't like the Waymarking site. I would like to see the earth caches back at GC.com. I think they added to the experience. I also think in our struggle to maintain the integrity of the sport they were a great tool for educators and for parents to teach kids about our planet. I look forward to doing some of the ones still on GC but won't bother with Waymarking. They were also a great way to Geo Cache in our parks where we can no longer put physical caches.

 

Agreed. If any of the old grandfathered cache types were to come back, it should be the Earthcache. Besides, wasn't it up to the GSA to decide to move them to Waymarking? Perhaps we could persuade them to bring them back.

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Moving to Waymarking forum.

 

I'm sorry. I thought there were still some geocaching earthcaches and this topic was specifically related to how geocaching earthcaches were being visited and enjoyed. Did I bring up something that needs to be buried on the wm site so noone sees my opinion and observation? :P

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I haven't looked into earthcaches too much... but from my understanding they are just interesting geologic features without any geocache correct? well isn't this what a waymark is? A Geocache without the cache? I don't get how people can say they like Waymarking but as long as it isn't on the Waymarking.com site? Seriously, what's the difference? If you like earthcaching you don't have to partake in the rest of Waymarking to do it...

 

As for why you don't get many hits in Waymarking... it is all that was explained above, plus I don't think everyone particularly enjoys dealing with beta testing. They see the word and they just avoid. When all the features are in, all the stats are counted correctly, and the site is live, I'm sure a lot of geocachers will start looking for waymarks to pick up on their site. I know for me I have almost no interest in logging a waymark without gsx or maps to tell where they are in conjunction with geocaches etc... this is a very needed feature of Waymarking.com and hopefully they will be adding it fairly soon.

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Earthcaches, webcams, and virtual caches get more finds than waymarks get visits for several reasons:

  1. Not as many people are aware of Waymarking as are aware of geocaching
  2. People haven't gotten used to searching for nearby waymarks as part of their activities
  3. There is no way yet to download waymark coordinates along with the geocaches in an area
  4. A waymark visit is not counted in your geocaching find count

Whatever the reason, it doesn't seem to me that the solution is to move these waymarks back to geocaching. If Waymarking is "broken", it seems better to discuss ways to fix Waymarking.

  1. How can we get more interest in Waymarking?
  2. How can waymark searches be improved? How can waymark searches be tied in with geocache searches?
  3. How should Waymarking downloads work?
  4. What Waymarking statistics should there be? How should they be integrated with geocaching stats?

I would love to complain and whine about the geocaching puritans that won't let me find the virtuals and earthcaches anymore because there is no physical log to sign. But this isn't going to get me anywhere. TPTB have decided that there is now something called Waymarking and it will be the home of all new earthcaches, webcams, and virtuals. However, it seems that TPTB have given us these Waymarking forums as a way to give input on what Waymarking should be. Let's use them for constructive dialog on how to make it work.

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Whatever the reason, it doesn't seem to me that the solution is to move these waymarks back to geocaching. If Waymarking is "broken", it seems better to discuss ways to fix Waymarking.

 

On this note perhaps one good idea would be to have a centralized search box on Groundspeak.com where you could enter your zip and you'd get results for both (maybe they could put it in seperate columns or something. Although for the life of me I can't seem to get the zip search work in Waymarking.com in the first place so they may wanna fix that first... (I can get searches done via the origin, which is cool but hardly newb friendly)

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Any search of Waymarking would need to be able to be limited to just the desired categories. And somehow getting combined results from gc and wm would be needed, as previously suggested.

 

But wouldn't a centralized sarch of both gc and wm cause the problem that got earthcaches, virtuals, and webcams shunted off to wm in the first place, too many different types that offended the "traditional" cachers? :)

 

[*]Not as many people are aware of Waymarking as are aware of geocaching

If wm isn't as well known, what is Groundspeak doing to promote it so it is used more. I don't want to see it dropped as a failed experiment due to lack of use :) Maybe gc should have links to wm (or is that blasphemy to mention wm on gc :anibad::ph34r: ) and provide simple statistics on how many wm or wm categories are near any search done on gc.

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TerryDad2 said

"Maybe gc should have links to wm (or is that blasphemy to mention wm on gc ohmy.gif biggrin.gif ) and provide simple statistics on how many wm or wm categories are near any search done on gc."

 

Currently there are links to Waymarking on everycache page. Check it out; it is a fairly new feature and you can use it to locate any near by waymarks nearby a cache you are seeking. I have been using it for about a month.

 

SEE

.other caches hidden or found by this user

...nearby caches of this type, that I haven't found

...all nearby caches, that I haven't found

...all nearby waymarks on Waymarking.com

...all nearby placenames

...all nearby benchmarks

...all nearby hiking trails from Trails.com

 

All you have to do is click on all nearby waymarks on Waymarking.com

Edited by chstress53
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Currently there are links to Waymarking on everycache page. Check it out; it is a fairly new feature and you can use it to locate any near by waymarks nearby a cache you are seeking. I have been using it for about a month.

 

Ahh. Already there. Nicely hidden link. I hadn't even noticed them. TPTB are working on the issue. Thanks for telling me they are there.

 

I think I hadn't noticed them because I use pocket queries so I don't even scroll down to that part of the page. I don't think I'm the only one that does that.

 

It would be great if that link would use my preferences to limit that search to the wm categories I'm interested in. Probably I could do that with a few extra steps......

Edited by TerryDad2
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I think a general Groundspeak search would be used for those who actually WANTED to get it all, and not just one section of caches. This would be for those who are going out for the day and wanna get every cache and waymark along the way. I think if you don't wanna do Waymarking, you'd still go to geocaching.com like always and the waymarks wouldn't be a part of it.

 

As for how do they get people to find it. Well hopefully they have plans... it is still in beta test and often companies won't bother to advertise the beta test too heavily. They usually try to draw in just enough people to test the product and not too many as to overload their resources. I don't think they are quite to the point of launch yet so no worries... hopefully by the time they launch officially they will have more going around so people will become more familiar...

 

I would like to see something similar to the pocket queries for Waymarking as well so that we can get more refined searches. Like previously stated, they are missing a lot still.. hopefully this is something that is added later.

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... it is still in beta test

 

I thought the time they only allowed premium members to access wm was the beta test and when they opened it up to the rest of the world wm was live.

Paraphrasing prior posts, technically where we have been with Waymarking from November until now is a "soft launch." Everyone has access to the site, but it's not being widely publicized. That will happen soon once the category creation and category management features are introduced.

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Check out these 3 'Earthcaches' and the work that went into them.

Thomas A. Jagger Museum.

The 'Kilauea Visitor Center'

Thurston Lava Tube

I like Yosemite John and Debbie's earthcaches. They have a couple in California that I want to visit. They actually set them up before I could get to the locations and set them up myself.

 

So many potential earthcache locations, so little time (and funds)

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It's too bad that they moved this thread to Waymarking which is exactly the problem in the first place with Earthcaches. When I heard that Earthcaches were going to be moving to Waymarking.com I setup as many Earthcaches as I could in the days leading up to the change over just so that I would have as many as possible at geocaching.com. Why? Because I expected that they would not be as interesting or reach as many people once they moved. My goal was to educate the public regarding the geosciences and geocaching.com provided an exceptional opportunity to do just that. Unfortunately the move to Waymarking.com has pretty much put an end to the rapid growth in interest in Earthcaches both in the number being submitted and the number being visited. Now they get lost in a sea of so many obscure categories in a much smaller user base. We keep hearing that improvements are coming but the negative impact on Earthcaches is already done. Will they be revived? Perhaps if Waymarking.com really becomes big but I rather doubt it because they will still only be one category that will still be lost amongst all the others even if more people are interested in Waymarking.com.

 

I ventured out into setting up the Canadian Benchmark category at Waymarking.com but it may have the same fate as Earthcaches. Benchmarking is quite popular at geocaching.com but when put into Waymarking.com it seems to generate little interest. I want it to succeed but how will that happen?

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Well theoretically if benchmarking and earthcaching (and virtual caches and locationless caches) are really that popular, people will move with them. Right now maybe part of the problem is that life goes on over at geocaching.com. Many people looking for these features still get them over at geocaching.com and probably don't realize there are more at Waymarking.com because of it. If they would take down all of these categories from geocaching and move them to Waymarking and have a large announcement (both in forums and on front page of sites, and maybe in pocket queries) then people would move over to Waymarking.

 

I think that is what Groundspeak is hoping for at least. I think they are hoping that some of the geocaching features that are moving are going to be the features that get Waymarking on its feet.

 

But as it stands why would any geocacher move here for those features when they have a few problems with Waymarking? There are moe still at geocaching.... There are more features at geocaching (mapping, poecket queries, stat recording, better search or at least one that works)... and that is assuming that they even know Waymarking is here and know that there are more here... I think this may be the primary reasons that Waymarking isn't as popular... it's not because it has less people going to it, it is because that if you are an earth cacher and a benchmarker and all these are still on geocaching and geocaching still has more and is working better, why move?

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It's too bad that they moved this thread to Waymarking which is exactly the problem in the first place with Earthcaches. When I heard that Earthcaches were going to be moving to Waymarking.com I setup as many Earthcaches as I could in the days leading up to the change over just so that I would have as many as possible at geocaching.com. Why? Because I expected that they would not be as interesting or reach as many people once they moved. My goal was to educate the public regarding the geosciences and geocaching.com provided an exceptional opportunity to do just that. Unfortunately the move to Waymarking.com has pretty much put an end to the rapid growth in interest in Earthcaches both in the number being submitted and the number being visited. Now they get lost in a sea of so many obscure categories in a much smaller user base. We keep hearing that improvements are coming but the negative impact on Earthcaches is already done. Will they be revived? Perhaps if Waymarking.com really becomes big but I rather doubt it because they will still only be one category that will still be lost amongst all the others even if more people are interested in Waymarking.com.

 

I ventured out into setting up the Canadian Benchmark category at Waymarking.com but it may have the same fate as Earthcaches. Benchmarking is quite popular at geocaching.com but when put into Waymarking.com it seems to generate little interest. I want it to succeed but how will that happen?

 

Wow! 17 Earthcaches owned. That's quite impressive. I have one Earth-cache (only listed on Waymarking), and since 10/21/05 (its time of listing) it has been visited once, compared to geocaching.com it would probably have had dozens of visits by now.

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Earthcaches, webcams, and virtual caches get more finds than waymarks get visits for several reasons:

  1. ... A waymark visit is not counted in your geocaching find count

 

There is another reason I'm not sure has been discussed much. I have a GPS, as do many, where the total number of waypoints I can put into it is 1000. When I load it up for "near me" I try and top it off because "I never know where I'll be tomorrow". Even if I could get PQs for waymarks, I'd have to make a decision: which would I rather do.... give up some of my geocaching waypoints for waymarks or try and cram more geocaches into the GPS. I think it's actually likely that people will end up into either the "Waymarking" camp or the "geocaching" camp until the common GPS holds as many points as you can fit in it.

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Earthcaches, webcams, and virtual caches get more finds than waymarks get visits for several reasons:

  1. ... A waymark visit is not counted in your geocaching find count

 

There is another reason I'm not sure has been discussed much. I have a GPS, as do many, where the total number of waypoints I can put into it is 1000. When I load it up for "near me" I try and top it off because "I never know where I'll be tomorrow". Even if I could get PQs for waymarks, I'd have to make a decision: which would I rather do.... give up some of my geocaching waypoints for waymarks or try and cram more geocaches into the GPS. I think it's actually likely that people will end up into either the "Waymarking" camp or the "geocaching" camp until the common GPS holds as many points as you can fit in it.

 

Just an FYI, and something Groundspeak might want to investigate... It is possible with most receivers to load the waypoints in to map memory, which gives you a MUCH higher threshold for number of points you can store. (on the order of millions)...

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I realize that Waymarking is in beta but as comments in other threads say, people don't understand what Waymarking wants to be and what its point is. It seems that everything can be waymarked and although I'm sure Groundspeak had a point its very hard to discern what it is.

 

The next problem is the interface. It is confusing and not nearly as easy to navigate as geocaching.com. Perhaps its ok after you've learned it but I suspect a lot of people are having the same reaction of why do I go through the steep learning curve for little payoff.

 

Finally, it got off to a bad start but initially being very US centric (don't flame me for raising this again but its true). That has improved lately but frankly a lot of us lost interest before Waymarking got going.

 

The unfortunate thing is that a great learning tool like Earthcaching has gotten lost and somewhat hurt because of this. I too would vote for it to return to geocaching.com. As well, I would vote for creating rules for waymarks rather than the current 'waymark every point on earth' which in itself makes Waymarking pointless.

 

JDandDD

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For a long time I've bit my tongue about EarthCaches... but this thread has reinforced it... so here goes.

 

{rant on}

 

Earthcaches could be great... but far too many are basically Virtual Cache rip offs.

 

EC's that their only criteria is to go to a LAT-LONG and take your picture is pretty lazy. The cache page should NOT be the only education that you get out of an EarthCache...

 

The location is supposed to be educational... you should visit the spot to learn something... It's much better if the person claiming the visit/find must supply some kind of text verification... answer a question from the site

 

I've done EC's that I could have logged without learning ANYTHING... but I chose to read the plaques, and the pages, and the suggested links....

 

But there is no NEED to do that. And there should be.

 

{rant off}

 

:rolleyes: The Blue Quasar

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The requirements to log the visit are up to the person who sets up the waymark. The visit can involve reading signs and so forth, but some earthcaches are just "out there in the wild" with no plaques, not much in the way of signs, and no interpretive center to go visit. I have one like that, and I have seen others.

 

As a teacher, I can tell you that just reading the webpage and then visiting the site to see it in person does cause the ordinary person to want to know more about a place. Admit it, haven't you ever read the cache page just a little bit more thoroughly after your visit than you did before your visit?

 

Photos are good proof of visits for the wild areas, and they are free fantasy travel brochures for those of us that can't travel to distant places to see all those goodies in person.

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I cannot seem to search by nearest Earthcache to my house.

 

At GC.com, I did it using a Pocket Query. How do I do it here? The search function seems to be far far FAR less than intuitive. (to me at least)

 

editting to add:

 

Let me add that I figured out that there is a "within 100 miles" feature on the search, however, that result is zero. So how do I find the nearest? Do I start filtering on zipcodes in other areas?

Edited by BillsBayou
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Well, zipcodes is one way, but that is somewhat random as you will continue to be limited to the 100 mile circle.

 

Remember that Waymarking is pretty new, and there is not much in the directory yet. There are less than 20 waymarks in ALL categories within your home state of Louisiana. None of them are earthcaches. Once the directory gets filled up, that 100 mile limit will make more sense. It's the same radius limit used at geocaching.com, where literally thousands of caches can be found within 100 miles of a given point.

 

I would suggest surfing by state. To do this, first go the earthcache category page. Then click on the advanced search link on the right hand side of the page. Select Country/State search. Check on Alabama, Mississippi, etc., to see if there are any other earthcache waymarks nearby.

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As mentioned in another thread about the multiple posts/catagories for one waymark or in my case multiple coords for one waymark as in a ghost town site, eg, historical plaque/odd shaped building/ruins/disaster site, etc, etc. and the need to promote Waymarking more, my idea is too use the nearby Waymarking coords as logable stages of a MULTI. With a dislike for drive-ups and the popularity, around here, for traditional caches with multiple stages before the final, I'm thinking this might be worth the effort. Then again I worry that this approach would be bordering on the "cram it down their throat" school of thinking. Maybe I worry to much.

I know I have no desire to maintain the little brass tags or other forms of information for multi stage caches, when there's a website where I can simply list them. It's up too the individual whether or not they want to absorb the asociated information once the cramming part is over. Just a thought, no maybe a warning as I will be acting upon it. If this sounds good, wish me luck. tks

 

dutchmaster

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I can't believe these beautiful eathcaches are in the same site as location of McDonald's restuarants.

The WM admin said my earthcache (fault zone) was a duplicate of a waterfall WM 300 m away. Yet in the same town there are 3 city hall WMs by the same owner!!!! (One as an odd building, one as city hall and another as webcame at city hall)

 

EarthCaches should not be part of Waymarking.

Edited by Rino10-81
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I can't believe these beautiful eathcaches are in the same site as location of McDonald's restuarants.

The WM admin said my earthcache (fault zone) was a duplicate of a waterfall WM 300 m away. Yet in the same town there are 3 city hall WMs by the same owner!!!! (One as an odd building, one as city hall and another as webcame at city hall)

 

EarthCaches should not be part of Waymarking.

 

Not sure why your earthcache waymark was denied unless it was truly a duplicate of another earthcache. There is not distance limitation on waymarks especially in different categories. Cross listing waymarks is allowed and encouraged.

 

Where should earthcaches be? You say they should not be on same site as McDonalds yet currently there are 385 McDonalds Waymark out of over 13,000 total waymarks or less than 3%. Maybe it would be better if they were on a site with Mountain Summits, or Scenic Roadside Look-Outs, or U. S. National Wildlife Refuges or Waterfalls or maybe even somewhere with U.S. National Natural Landmarks ..... those are a just a few of the other categories here on Waymarking. But if you think that earthcaches fit better on a site with micros in a parking lot or other "fine" locations then I guess I am missing something :rolleyes:

Edited by BruceS
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Rino10-81 Posted Yesterday, 08:24 AM

I can't believe these beautiful eathcaches are in the same site as location of McDonald's restuarants.

 

That is like saying you can't believe that Wal-Mart Mico Caches are listed on the same site as Project APE caches. True EarthCaches are more educational, and subjectively more interesting, than McDonald's restaurants. But at their core they are the same in that each is a classification for items.

 

BruceS Posted Yesterday, 11:30 AM

Where should earthcaches be? {snip} Maybe it would be better if they were on a site with Mountain Summits, or Scenic Roadside Look-Outs, or U. S. National Wildlife Refuges or Waterfalls or maybe even somewhere with U.S. National Natural Landmarks

 

Agreed... EarthCaches are more like these examples than they are like Geocaches.

 

The forming division between Physical containers that hold logbooks (Geocaches) compared to locations to visit and enjoy seeing due to interest in that classification (Waymarks) is a benefit in the long term in my opinion.

 

For me, which I have said often enough lately... I've learned a lot more historical or generally interesting things from Waymarking over the last 6 months than I did in over 5 years of Geocaching. That's not to say I don't enjoy the long hikes of Geocaching... but where Geocaching is good for the body, Waymarking is good for the mind. And naturally, some from each are good for both but they are the exceptions.

 

:( The Blue Quasar

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Thank for you thoughts guys. I guess I am frustrated with my earthcache being declined. Another funny thing was that I submitted mine 1 day before the waterfall wm was approved.

 

I am not debating that earthcaches should be on geocaching.com - you are right - there is no container. I was hoping that earthcaches would exist soley on earthcache.org. A broad category including physical geography.

 

In WM there are too many categories for my liking - I will never log a McDonalds that's for sure.

 

By the way - how many Micro's are there at walmart parking lots? - I would hope not many.

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Keep at it, and see what you can do to get your EarthCache approved on Waymarking.

 

Everyone really enjoyed the EarthCaches. And since many haven't moved over to Waymarking, you would be one of the early new ones.

 

If you can illustrate how yours is a good example, and meet the requirements, then eventually people will come.

 

Waymarking is new... don't expect a lot of instant gratification. But it'll come along.

 

:laughing: The Blue Quasar

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Wow, I finally got into the forums section of geocaching and most likely will not spend much time here. but wanted to add my 2 or 3 cents to a subject I care a good deal about.

 

I too am sad that earthcaches moved as I had some great ideas for the D.C. area but because Educational Virtual styled caches seem lower quality than a physical film can in a parkinglot at Wal-Mart to certain cachers I guess we are stuck with Waymarking. With that said, I am just going to be optimistic about Earthcaches on Waymarking until they are open to all. I plan on creating more earthcaches regardless of the fact they are in Waymarking and if they chose to move them over then that would be great too.

 

Promoting your Waymarking Earthcaches on your profile can also help or even adding a link to the Waymarking site might spawn some interest. It is our job to make Earthcaches popular and visited on the Waymarking site. Again, I still wish they were in geocaching, but they are not and I plan to promote mine any way I can!

 

On a side note if you have not signed up for the Earthcache Master program, you should, it is another neat little goal within Geocaching/Waymarking that is fun. www.earthcache.org

 

flyingmoose

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For me, which I have said often enough lately... I've learned a lot more historical or generally interesting things from Waymarking over the last 6 months than I did in over 5 years of Geocaching. That's not to say I don't enjoy the long hikes of Geocaching... but where Geocaching is good for the body, Waymarking is good for the mind. And naturally, some from each are good for both but they are the exceptions.

 

:laughing: The Blue Quasar

 

{rant on}

 

I suspect that's because you lead one of the history categories and are an officer in another for Canadian history. As well, placement in those categories have been dominated by the leaders and officers to the point that others really need not apply to place waymarks in them. As I remember I got an email from an officer of the Ontario Historical Plaques telling me to get out of the Niagara Region for waymarks in that category.

 

{rant off}

 

That said, take a look at where earthcaches rank in popularity list. So low that they don't even show on the radar. Also, take a close look at the categories in Waymarking. There's a lot of junk in Waymarking, so much so that they overwhelm the good one's.

 

Waymarking makes a good replacement for locationaless (multi-location caches with no specific coords) but not for virtuals (single spots with single coords). Most historical markes are prototypical virtuals not locationless. Let Waymarking do locationaless but not overwhelm good, solid projects like earthcaching before they even had a chance to get started. The project was barely underway when TPTB decided that they didn't like them on geocaching and the project was dealt a heavy blow. Geocaching could have shown to the world it had higher purposes than micros in parking lots and tupperware in the bush. It could have shown that it supported educational intiatives but chose not too.

 

Waymarking has its place, but it does as much damage to good ideas with the amount of junk categories as locationaless did on geocaching.

 

JDandDD

Edited by JDandDD
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JDandDD Posted Yesterday, 06:52 PM

 

(The Blue Quasar @ Jun 1 2006, 08:17 AM)

 

For me, which I have said often enough lately... I've learned a lot more historical or generally interesting things from Waymarking over the last 6 months than I did in over 5 years of Geocaching. That's not to say I don't enjoy the long hikes of Geocaching... but where Geocaching is good for the body, Waymarking is good for the mind. And naturally, some from each are good for both but they are the exceptions.

 

cool.gif The Blue Quasar

 

{rant on}

 

I suspect that's because you lead one of the history categories and are an officer in another for Canadian history. As well, placement in those categories have been dominated by the leaders and officers to the point

that others really need not apply to place waymarks in them. As I remember I got an email from an officer of the Ontario Historical Plaques telling me to get out of the Niagara Region for waymarks in that category.

 

{rant off}

 

Actually, I was the Officer you are sort of referring to. I had already submitted the 8-10 Ontario Historic Plaques for the Niagara Parkway at Queenston into the Review Queue almost a week before the one you sent in. Since I know the amount of effort it takes to create a single Waymark, I didn't want you to spend hours creating the exact same ones that I had already submitted. If it happened to me, that I created 8-10 Waymarks only to have someone say "Sorry, someone beat you to it by a few days"... I would be mad. However, I don't recall tell you to 'get out of the Niagara Region for Waymarks in that category' but I do recall saying that I had submitted the remainder and the rest were in the Review Queue but the Leader was at his cottage unable to Review and I would not Review my own (I think that is improper)

 

That is why I emailed you right away, so you didn't invest a huge amount of time for locations that were already pending.

 

As for Officers dominating... it is true that I have a large majority of the Ontario Historic Plaques, but I do not have any in the Canadian National Historic Sites (The Category in which I am the Leader). I originally wanted the OHP Category BADLY... but Jake39 was given it.. and he made me an Officer because of my devotion and interest in it. I don't think it is fair to generalize that Officers dominate in the Canadian History Categories. I might dominate in the OHP... as does Hard Oiler to an extent, but that is where it ends for any one person 'dominating'. I started with the OHP's in the Region I live and work, and I hope to do the same with Libraries and Canadian National Historic Sites among others.

 

Waymarking makes a good replacement for locationaless (multi-location caches with no specific coords) but not for virtuals (single spots with single coords). Most historical markes are prototypical virtuals not locationless. Let Waymarking do locationaless but not overwhelm good, solid projects like earthcaching before they even had a chance to get started. The project was barely underway when TPTB decided that they didn't like them on geocaching and the project was dealt a heavy blow. Geocaching could have shown to the world it had higher purposes than micros in parking lots and tupperware in the bush. It could have shown that it supported educational intiatives but chose not too.

 

At the moment there are 250 unique Categories... and being honest, maybe 20 really interest me... maybe. EarthCaches are not one of them, because a huge majority of the EarthCache I see are nothing more than a glorified Virtual Cache, without the WOW. That's not to say that I'm not impressed by Geological Features... I love that part of it. It is the 'stand at this spot and take a picture of yourself with you GPS' that bugs me. I've found 5 EarthCaches on Geocaching.com so far and of them... only 1 made the effort to educate me AT the site. I ensured that I read the plaques at every site, but everyone single one was a 'take your picture' which can be done without learning a single thing.

 

Is it better than a parking lot micro??? Sure. Is it Geocaching? Nope! TPTB have drawn a pretty clear picture about what is a Cache. Unfortunately no one so far has been able to do that for Virtuals/WOW. But they are trying to.

 

I still wager that I can Visit 99% of Waymarks without turning on my GPS. And that pretty much applies to every EarthCache I've looked at, whether I've Found It, Visited It, or just read about it online.

 

I'm sorry that you haven't enjoyed some of your Waymarking experiences... I have always respected your thoughts, and I hope this is just a hiccup in the hobby for you. Not that my opinions mean much.

 

:) The Blue Quasar

Edited by The Blue Quasar
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South Surrey Scavengers Posted Yesterday, 08:49 PM

When is the Earthcache category going to be opened to the public to allow group members and officers? I can't find a way to even join the group.

 

Wouldn't they be under the same rules as every other 'Hasn't formed a Group" yet? The June 14th cut off applies to them too doesn't it?

 

You could try contacting GeoAware....

 

:) The Blue Quasar

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At the moment there are 250 unique Categories... and being honest, maybe 20 really interest me... maybe. EarthCaches are not one of them, because a huge majority of the EarthCache I see are nothing more than a glorified Virtual Cache, without the WOW. That's not to say that I'm not impressed by Geological Features... I love that part of it. It is the 'stand at this spot and take a picture of yourself with you GPS' that bugs me. I've found 5 EarthCaches on Geocaching.com so far and of them... only 1 made the effort to educate me AT the site. I ensured that I read the plaques at every site, but everyone single one was a 'take your picture' which can be done without learning a single thing.

 

I have 3 earthcaches on geocaching side of Groundspeak. Two of them are urban earthcaches and get a lot of traffic. I think most people who go there just do it for the icon. Im not sure how many of them actually get anything out of it beyond that. Some have appreciated them. I certainly enjoyed creating them, and have learned a lot from it. I would love to create more, even if no one visits them here.

 

I enjoy reading the earthcache pages. Im a science geek though. I wish I could visit some of them.

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As for Officers dominating... it is true that I have a large majority of the Ontario Historic Plaques, but I do not have any in the Canadian National Historic Sites (The Category in which I am the Leader). I originally wanted the OHP Category BADLY... but Jake39 was given it.. and he made me an Officer because of my devotion and interest in it. I don't think it is fair to generalize that Officers dominate in the Canadian History Categories. I might dominate in the OHP... as does Hard Oiler to an extent, but that is where it ends for any one person 'dominating'. I started with the OHP's in the Region I live and work, and I hope to do the same with Libraries and Canadian National Historic Sites among others.

 

BQ, my point was this. There is a danger in Leaders and Officers placing so many in their categories that others do not feel that there is much point to be involved in it. This is self-defeating to the category and to Waymarking. Now that I am giving Waymarking an honest effort, and enjoying it much to my surprise I have also come across some of its potential problems and this is one.

 

At this stage in the growth of Waymarking at least a large portion of the activity needs to be at encouraging others to participate and people placing waymarks is a big part of that. From a perusal of the Waymarking site, visitng waymarks is a minor activity and placing waymarks is what is involving people. That really isn't different from how things were with locationaless caches. With locationaless, the fun was finding your own not visiting somebody elses.

 

That's true for waymarks as well. It takes some effort to find some of these things and the fun is in the hunt to find the waymark. Even in the OHP category some of the plaques aren't where they are listed on the heritage site and its the fun of the hunt that makes the difference, at least for me. Once a waymark has been placed and the coords published the fun of the hunt part is gone. You just go to the spot. So, for those who enjoy at least a part of it to be the hunt/discovery if too much is done the game will become less for them. That's the danger that Waymarking will face after about 18months to 2years of operation.

 

There will always be those who like visiting waymarks, but like locationaless, I believe those will be the minority. I don't know what the long term answer is but the short term issue of involving others is to not overdue categories in any given geographical areas and I think that means have some sort of limitation in numbers of waymarks a person can place in any given category.

 

At the moment there are 250 unique Categories... and being honest, maybe 20 really interest me... maybe. EarthCaches are not one of them, because a huge majority of the EarthCache I see are nothing more than a glorified Virtual Cache, without the WOW. That's not to say that I'm not impressed by Geological Features... I love that part of it. It is the 'stand at this spot and take a picture of yourself with you GPS' that bugs me. I've found 5 EarthCaches on Geocaching.com so far and of them... only 1 made the effort to educate me AT the site.

One of the things that set earthcaching apart was the organization that over saw it and now the waymarks. The rules are very clear that the cacher must include in their description what the feature is displaying about earth sciences. The effort was specifically to educate. Its up to the person doing the cache to learn.

 

I ensured that I read the plaques at every site, but everyone single one was a 'take your picture' which can be done without learning a single thing.

The same thing can be said about every waymark. Every history plaque is a 'take your picture' and you don't even have to read the plaque, just make sure you are standing in front of a plaque at the coords. So that is neither an argument for or against waymarks or earthcache.

 

Is it better than a parking lot micro??? Sure. Is it Geocaching? Nope! TPTB have drawn a pretty clear picture about what is a Cache. Unfortunately no one so far has been able to do that for Virtuals/WOW. But they are trying to.

The fact that the issue of virtuals and earthcaches keeps rearing its head on the forums, both Waymarking and geocaching, is the best indicator of all that TPTB have drawn a line in the sand that is far from universally accepted. Equally, the quantity of comments about Waymarking and the effects on good virtuals and earthcaches is telling about the amount of dissent. There are also comments in other forums point out the inconsistencies of TPTB that encourage geocoins tracking and are floating the idea of 'social finds' while banishing things they don't like, virtuals and earthcaches. Note these comments are coming from lots of others not me. Add to that pocket caches and coin swaps and its clear that there is a lot more action by the community to work around TPTB because they don't feel their needs are being met. There are a lot of 'underground' activities going around to be concerning about the future of the the two allied games, especially if you have a lifetime of working with groups and their setups. Waymarking has added to those undertones that indicate that the community is moving at odds to the its leaders (TPTB) and that the TPTB need to become cognizant of these and be prepared to react to the needs of the community.

I'm sorry that you haven't enjoyed some of your Waymarking experiences... I have always respected your thoughts, and I hope this is just a hiccup in the hobby for you. Not that my opinions mean much.

:P The Blue Quasar

Likewise, I respect your thoughts and your opinions do mean a great deal. I will say that the tone of the email was a stronger push away from Niagara than I expected ( and I can now assume you meant). But I can say that what concerned me more was the fact that almost all if not all of the Niagara Region OHP waymarks were done so that there was little way to be involved. It showed me the problem with Waymarking. I travel 300km in the belief that there was some to be done, only to find after I get home four days later that there were none. It said to me that there is a flaw in the system here. We have to leave waymarks for others to place. That's why I have done one more (in the queue) in my area and am leaving the rest for others. That way others can be encouraged to start in the game and have the opportunity to place in my area not just visit. And to end, I think leaders and officers should feel that one of their roles is to encourage others to participate in both aspects of Waymarking and so should ensure that they don't place all of the waymarks in their respective regions.

 

JDandDD

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