Waas 35

[+EraSeek]

Yes, you will still see the "D's". If you have not seen them before on your unit you will have to find an open area exposed to the WAAS sat and allow your unit to cycle through looking for the WAAS sats. Once it locates the waas sats it will take some time (up to 15 mins or so) for your unit to gather the WAAS alamanac and applly WAAS for the first time. You will know by seeing the "D's" pop up on all the sats. Now I see that you are in Quebec. If you are too far north you may not either be able to see the sats or you may be outside the WAAS area and your unit will not apply WAAS corrections. Garmins will block it if you are outside the grid.

 

Here is the current service area: http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/vpl.html

Edited February 24, 2006 by EraSeek

[+cron]

Oh! I'm right on the red line I believe... I used to have it on my 76S. Maybe another bug... Or I never went to a really well exposed place so I can see the WAAS satellite, which would be strange but could have happened.

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT: Ok, just saw them tonight (#33 was in view, so I got all "D"s)

Edited February 24, 2006 by cron

[+Rotareneg]

I've been able to get corrections on my 60CSx from 35, including today. I think what is happening with the SiRF models is that they only look at one of the WAAS satellites, so for me it usually is looking at 47 and won't bother with 35; when I get out where I can get a strong signal from 35 it will sometimes use it instead of 47 (not sure why; maybe 47 goes away for a while and then it looks at 35).

 

I had a similar experience with my 60CSx this weekend. I had gotten a replacement unit late last week, and from my condo it would sparodically receive 35, but not for long. Whenever it did, 35 would show up in it's original position. Sunday I went to the beach and it got a lock on 35 for extended periods of time; that apparently allowed it to load new almanac data, because it now is showing up in the current position.

 

Did you put the 2.50 firmware on your 60CSx? I put it on my 60Cx and am wonder if perhaps that's the problem. Today I left my 60Cx up on a roof with a clear view of the sky for three hours and it never got a good signal on 35, just occasional "blips" for a few seconds at a time with a low and fluctuating signal level. My Legend had no problem picking up 35 at the same exact spot.

[Hertzog]

 

Did you put the 2.50 firmware on your 60CSx? I put it on my 60Cx and am wonder if perhaps that's the problem. Today I left my 60Cx up on a roof with a clear view of the sky for three hours and it never got a good signal on 35, just occasional "blips" for a few seconds at a time with a low and fluctuating signal level. My Legend had no problem picking up 35 at the same exact spot.

 

It came with 2.5 installed, but I think I saw similar results with 2.4 in the first 60CSx I had. Are you getting reception from 47 or one of the other WAAS satellites? As I recall 35 is in a good position for you to see it now, so I'm surprised you don't get a good lock on it unless one of the others is competing for attention.

[+Rotareneg]

47's below the horizon here in Wichita, and it's never picked up 36 (which the Legend also has no problems with.)

[Hertzog]

47's below the horizon here in Wichita, and it's never picked up 36 (which the Legend also has no problems with.)

 

I had my 60CSx out today where it might have gotten a good signal from 35, but I forgot to pay attention to the WAAS reception! When I got home tonight I tried it in my east facing downstairs window, where it might pick up 35 instead of 47, and got performance similar to what you described: momentary strong signals from 35, but no continous reception. Also, while I said in an earlier post that it was being shown in the correct position on the satellite page, tonight it was being depicted closer to the original position, so something strange is happening there! Tomorrow I'll take it out where it should get some good signals from 35 and see what happens.

[Hertzog]

[Tomorrow I'll take it out where it should get some good signals from 35 and see what happens.

I think I figured out what's going on with the SiRF models and WAAS 35 - not that it's going to be of much use to anybody; basically, it looks like you can receive correction data from 35, but only after an "assist" from another WAAS satellite.

 

If I turn on the 60CSx in a location where it receives only 35, it will look at 35 for maybe 20 seconds at a time with a strong signal indicated, but will never show the "D"s, and 35 will be shown in it's original position.

 

If I move to a location where 47 can be received the GPSr will act normally, picking up the correction data and showing the "D"s. If I leave it in this location for several minutes, and then move back to the location where I pick up only 35 then 35 shows up in it's current location and the correctional data can be received from it.

 

So it looks to me like the GPSr needs to receive the ephemeris data for 35 from 47 before it will accept correctional data from 35.

 

Recycling power or going to "use with GPS off" puts it back to square one, requiring a look at 47 again to get things started.

 

So far I've only heard of people with the 60Cx and 60CSx having a problem with 35; do we know of any non-Garmin units with SiRF chips having similar problems? (I haven't even heard of a 76C/Sx model with the problem, but it would be very strange for that to be the case).

[+jeffk42]

So far I've only heard of people with the 60Cx and 60CSx having a problem with 35; do we know of any non-Garmin units with SiRF chips having similar problems? (I haven't even heard of a 76C/Sx model with the problem, but it would be very strange for that to be the case).

 

Not SiRF, but FWIW, lately I get full-strength bars on 35 and 36 with my 60CS, but neither will lock and turn solid, no matter how long it tries.

[+japtkd]

The 35 issue seems to be happening with my BT338. I occassionally see the sat, but it never locks, nor does it get correctional data. I don't know that it's not a problem with the 338 as I only recently got it and have never been able to get a WAAS lock.

[+birddog14]

I live near Fort Worth Tx and I have only been able to get hollow bars fror 35 and 36 lately. And today I was getting hollow bars on 35 and 47 with my 60C. I have not had any trouble picking up WAAS until a week or more ago. I even tried yesterday with my Gilsson external antenna and still would only get hollow bars on WAAS. I even looked at my Legend C yesterday and it does the same thing

[Hertzog]

I live near Fort Worth Tx and I have only been able to get hollow bars fror 35 and 36 lately. And today I was getting hollow bars on 35 and 47 with my 60C.

From these posts it looks like problems with WAAS 35 are not unique to the 60C/CS"x" models.

 

I'm impressed that you can see 47 at all from Dallas! After reading this I fired up both my 60CS and 60CSx models, and I'm not getting a black bar on 47 either today (wouldn't have expected it from the CSx, but the CS normally does). I'ts from my condo, and the 60CS normally struggles there, so I'll take it with me this afternoon and see what it can do with a stronger signal from 47.

[Hertzog]

Not SiRF, but FWIW, lately I get full-strength bars on 35 and 36 with my 60CS, but neither will lock and turn solid, no matter how long it tries.

 

That's true for 35 for all GPSr's now, because they've turned off ranging during the move; however, correctional data is supposed to still be available. You can also watch it's progress on the satellite page. I don't know about 36 (I've never been able to see it).

[+scnascar]

Picked up 35 this morning in South Carolina around 10am usnig my 60csx had a good signal and all d's.

[Hertzog]

Picked up 35 this morning in South Carolina around 10am usnig my 60csx had a good signal and all d's.

 

I just tried my earlier tests with 47 blocked (see posts 60 and 61 above), and still can't get Ds with 35 without first getting a good signal from 47; it will look at 35 for 60 seconds at a time and not receive correctios.

 

There's no way you can be be seeing 47 in SC; do you get signals from any other WAAS birds that might be giving you an "assist" with 35?

 

Also, which SW version do you have? (I've seen the problem with 2.5 and 2.6; 2.4 may or may not have had it.)

[+scnascar]

Picked up 35 this morning in South Carolina around 10am usnig my 60csx had a good signal and all d's.

 

I just tried my earlier tests with 47 blocked (see posts 60 and 61 above), and still can't get Ds with 35 without first getting a good signal from 47; it will look at 35 for 60 seconds at a time and not receive correctios.

 

There's no way you can be be seeing 47 in SC; do you get signals from any other WAAS birds that might be giving you an "assist" with 35?

 

Also, which SW version do you have? (I've seen the problem with 2.5 and 2.6; 2.4 may or may not have had it.)

 

John,

 

Your right I'm not seeing 47 at all but I'm seeing 35 with no problem. I just turned it on and the only one that came up was 35 no other WAAS birds are showing.

 

I'm using version 2.60

 

Here is a photo as of 9:07 pm and 35 is still there

 

 

Chris

[Hertzog]

Your right I'm not seeing 47 at all but I'm seeing 35 with no problem. I just turned it on and the only one that came up was 35 no other WAAS birds are showing.

 

Well, that should be good news to people on the east coast; throws a monkey wrench into my theory though.

 

One other question: does 35 show up on your satellite page from the start or only after you've gotten a signal from it? And that brings up another curious thing - your position for 35 is practically the same as mine, on the west coast! (I would post a screenshot, but am new to this forum and haven't figured out how, but trust me.) Anyway, I'm about ready to give up on this, let Garmin figure it out, and just have fun with the unit!

[+scnascar]

Your right I'm not seeing 47 at all but I'm seeing 35 with no problem. I just turned it on and the only one that came up was 35 no other WAAS birds are showing.

 

Well, that should be good news to people on the east coast; throws a monkey wrench into my theory though.

 

Maybe not yet... Where 35 was showing yesterday, now today it will not even pick it up

 

One other question: does 35 show up on your satellite page from the start or only after you've gotten a signal from it? And that brings up another curious thing - your position for 35 is practically the same as mine, on the west coast! (I would post a screenshot, but am new to this forum and haven't figured out how, but trust me.) Anyway, I'm about ready to give up on this, let Garmin figure it out, and just have fun with the unit!

 

It shows up only after I get a signal from it. To get the image from my GPSr I use xImage which can be DL from the garmin website and very easy to use.

 

[Hertzog]

To get the image from my GPSr I use xImage which can be DL from the garmin website and very easy to use.

 

Using xImage wasn't my problem; I just haven't figured out how to get images into the message yet.

 

One further observation about your previous image: 35 was shown in it's original position (before the move). For your location that happens to be the same position that it is currently in relative to me. What I normally see is that 35 initially shows up in it's original position relative to my location, and only after the 60CSx has received 47 for an extended period of time will 35 show up in it's current location; so I think the ephemeris data for 35's current location is being received from 47 (but is lost when the unit shuts down). My theory was that for some reason the 60CSx needed the current ephemeris data for 35 before it would use it's correctional signals; however, it appears that on at least one occasion you were able to get correctional data from 35 without the need for the ephemeris data. Strange...

[+hardwire]

...snip...

Here is a photo as of 9:07 pm and 35 is still there

 

 

Chris

 

Where 35 is on your page is where it was on mine before it started it's move, as viewed from St.Louis.

 

Here is where it is today:

Edited March 7, 2006 by hardwire

[+scnascar]

well I didn't see 35 today but I did see 33 for a while with all D's... I'm starting to wonder if maybe I should just turn WAAS off for a while an not worry about it.

[+drbugs]

...snip...

Here is a photo as of 9:07 pm and 35 is still there

 

 

Chris

 

Where 35 is on your page is where it was on mine before it started it's move, as viewed from St.Louis.

 

Here is where it is today:

Thats interesting where you see 35. I see it in the SE on my 60cx, about the same elevation (I'm in minneapolis). I need to find a good view of the south/southwest and try again. My unit sees 35 all the time now, just no correctioon info. I just have a blinking 35 sat. I get great errors (on the freeway I see +/-8

 

FWIW I grew up about 60 miles SE of St. Louis. When I visit family, I plan on checking out some caches in the area.

[+ctgreybeard]

OK, what's #48?

 

I don't recall seeing #48 before but I loaded the beta 2.51 software into my VistaC today. I've been following this thread for a few days and so I was paying more attention to the satellite screen than I usually do and up pops #48! 35 was low and southwest but 48 was even farther west. I'm in new england. And 35 was popping in and out while 48 was pretty steady and had a higher bar than 35. Neither one got a solid bar but I didn't expect that from 35 anyway. I was getting my D's, however. Not consistently but I didn't have a lot of time to play. Maybe tomorrow I'll get out into a more open area and see what happens.

 

I haven't found a reference to Garmin 48 anywhere yet but I'm still looking.

 

Bill W

[+drbugs]

OK, what's #48?

 

I don't recall seeing #48 before but I loaded the beta 2.51 software into my VistaC today. I've been following this thread for a few days and so I was paying more attention to the satellite screen than I usually do and up pops #48! 35 was low and southwest but 48 was even farther west. I'm in new england. And 35 was popping in and out while 48 was pretty steady and had a higher bar than 35. Neither one got a solid bar but I didn't expect that from 35 anyway. I was getting my D's, however. Not consistently but I didn't have a lot of time to play. Maybe tomorrow I'll get out into a more open area and see what happens.

 

I haven't found a reference to Garmin 48 anywhere yet but I'm still looking.

 

Bill W

 

http://gpsinformation.net/exe/waas.html and pagedown a bit.

 

wierd part is that there are 2 listed as 48, but both are in the pacific.

[+ctgreybeard]

Wow, I have a pretty clear view to the west but I wonder if I can even see either of those. Of course, the GPSr says I can but I suspect it's Anik. I can't see any way that I could see PanAm from here.

 

I'll have to experiment some more I guess.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Bill W

[Delaypat]

OK, what's #48?

 

I don't recall seeing #48 before but I loaded the beta 2.51 software into my VistaC today. I've been following this thread for a few days and so I was paying more attention to the satellite screen than I usually do and up pops #48! 35 was low and southwest but 48 was even farther west. I'm in new england. And 35 was popping in and out while 48 was pretty steady and had a higher bar than 35. Neither one got a solid bar but I didn't expect that from 35 anyway. I was getting my D's, however. Not consistently but I didn't have a lot of time to play. Maybe tomorrow I'll get out into a more open area and see what happens.

 

I haven't found a reference to Garmin 48 anywhere yet but I'm still looking.

 

Bill W

 

I also saw 48 today. It was a strong sig, but no lock. Had all D's though.

Edited March 10, 2006 by Delaypat

[+ctgreybeard]

Ah, Sacramento, the city of my birth! May I never be forced to live there again! [i spent a year out at Mather in the Air Force and discovered why my mother (also born in Sacramento) was very happy to leave it!] I am a bonafide fourth generation Californian and damned proud of it! But I still wouldn't live in Sacramento by choice!

 

But I digress. I might expect someone as far west as you are to pick that one up but I was really surprised when I saw it here in New England! Maybe we were getting some tropo-scatter or some other anomaly?

 

Do you get a solid lock on 48 or, as I do, just get the hollow bar? 35 has been the hollow bar for a while but I understand that is because it's moving and isn't sending ranging signals, just ephemeris data.

 

Bill W

[Delaypat]

Ah, Sacramento, the city of my birth! May I never be forced to live there again! [i spent a year out at Mather in the Air Force and discovered why my mother (also born in Sacramento) was very happy to leave it!] I am a bonafide fourth generation Californian and damned proud of it! But I still wouldn't live in Sacramento by choice!

 

But I digress. I might expect someone as far west as you are to pick that one up but I was really surprised when I saw it here in New England! Maybe we were getting some tropo-scatter or some other anomaly?

 

Do you get a solid lock on 48 or, as I do, just get the hollow bar? 35 has been the hollow bar for a while but I understand that is because it's moving and isn't sending ranging signals, just ephemeris data.

 

Bill W

 

HEHE yeah, sacramento isnt all that great, but its home. I only got a strong hollow bar on 48. Really strong actually...I was in the field caching, so I couldnt capture a screeny. Anyway hello!

 

Pat

[+GPSlug]

I've been tracking 4 WAAS satellites at once for the last few days.

(the blue ones)

 

122 (Garmin 35) is now pretty much due south for me. The new ones are currently 125 (38) and 135 (48).

All have valid corrections.

[+PDOP's]

I've been tracking 4 WAAS satellites at once for the last few days.

 

Which software is your screen shot of?

[+GPSlug]

Which software is your screen shot of?

Well, it's called GPSolution, and it's free, but it only communicates with NovAtel* GPS receivers. I've configured one to have 6 WAAS channels assigned to 122, 123, 125, 134, 135, and 138 so I can watch what's happening.

 

*Disclosure: I work there, but I'm not trying to sell anyone anything.

[+fizzymagic]

All have valid corrections.

Are the "Do Not Use" flags on the new satellites turned off yet? My Magellans are not yet using them, and in the past Magellans have been pretty good at turning on the corrections as soon as they are available.

[+GPSlug]

Are the "Do Not Use" flags on the new satellites turned off yet? My Magellans are not yet using them, and in the past Magellans have been pretty good at turning on the corrections as soon as they are available.

The new ones are still set to "Do Not Use" and don't exist in the almanacs sent by the old ones.

[+PDOP's]

Well, it's called GPSolution, and it's free, but it only communicates with NovAtel* GPS receivers. I've configured one to have 6 WAAS channels assigned to 122, 123, 125, 134, 135, and 138 so I can watch what's happening.

 

*Disclosure: I work there, but I'm not trying to sell anyone anything.

 

I've been using Visual GPS (freeware) to do the same. It displays the azimuth and elevation of each satellite (among lots of other things). Like with you 122/35 is almost directly south of me now (I'm at W117.5°) and at an elevation of 29-30° (I'm at N53.4°).