Dedicated Gps Vs. Ppc/pda

[+Alan2]

We've had such spirited debates over the years with Garmin vs. Magellan which is better topics, I hoped to spark a new debate as PPC'/PDA's are being used more and more.

 

So there ya go. Let the match begin.

[nobodyhere]

We've had such spirited debates over the years with Garmin vs. Magellan which is better topics, I hoped to spark a new debate as PPC'/PDA's are being used more and more.

 

So there ya go. Let the match begin.

 

Asking which one is "better" is like asking someone which is better: A Corvette Z06, or a Spec Miata? Well...if you're going to a track like Watkins Glen...the Z06. Doing an Auto-X, or going to a really tight track like NHIS's road course? The Miata, most likely. It is better to talk about strengths and weaknesses, and keep in mind what units are designed for...and do they do what they were designed for well?

 

Handheld units are generally more durable. I dropped my 76csx on the ground the day it arrived, and it bounced 3 feet and then hit a stone wall. It's bounced around the car a bit in the last few days too. Not a scratch on the case, and functions fine. Later that evening, I had it outside when it was snowing like crazy. So, a PDA GPS with lots of hiking/boating functionality would be, in my book, something of a failure unless it was in a ruggedized case. Handhelds also have better battery life these days- 20 hours on a pair of AA's can't be beat by any PDA I know of.

 

PDA based GPS units have more 'horsepower', the screens are bigger and higher resolution, and data entry is easier (ie, entering an address.) They do common, sensible things like allow you to look up a person and click "go to" straight from the address book. They calculate auto routes very quickly. They display maps much more smoothly. However, they're generally marketed towards PDA users- so you'll be less likely to find things like MOB, anchor drift alarms, or even track logs sometimes. I think it is impressive how far handheld GPS units have come with regards to autorouting and 'guidebook' info, but they're still far from perfect. Finding a place in my 76csx is a pain- for example, I wanted to get to the Museum of Science in Boston, while on Route 1 yesterday. The search, even if restricted to "attractions", takes at least 20-30 seconds AFTER entering 'science'. For a unit that runs for 20 hours on a pair of AA's, I'm not surprised, but it's an important caveat.

 

When I was searching for a unit, a friend kept egging me to get a PDA based unit. I said no, because I want to hike/bike/ski occasionally with it and go boating. So nothing that won't float, survive drops, and be weatherproof.

 

I don't see much reason for any geocacher to buy a PDA-based unit. If you're a 'travelling salesperson' type- I'd say a PDA based unit wins hands-down. You won't be in The Great Outdoors. You'll be doing a lot of address entry. You'll probably already have, or be able to make good use of, the non-GPS PDA functionality. Delivery type guy, livery driver, etc? Tomtom or similar device targeted to the auto market. Etc.

[+JDandDD]

I have both a dedicated GPS and a PDA based one. They each are better than the other at some things and worse at other. The PDA can carry information such as the full cache description, pictures, that the GPS can't. I can also load up specialized maps from almost any source to the PDA and so far GPSrs don't let you do that.

 

However, the GPS is more rugged, especially important in the bush, and are more flexible in the field. They also allow more levels of zooming in and out on the maps than is available on PDAs.

 

So, they each have their uses and together make a better package than just one or the other for me.

 

JDandDD

[albertkircher]

Hi,

If you are out in the woods, rainy day, harsh environment, etc.. you will not want to have a PDA with you, it is just not made for harsh environments. Dedicated GPS units (be it Garmins 60, Magellans exporists, even Silvas or whatever you want) are much better in these situations since they are sealed and offer a certain degree of protection against water.

If you use the units in you car, in cities, travelling, etc (thus in clean and safe environments) a PDA is a good choice.

 

Summary:

Harsh environment: dedicated GPS

Normal environment: dedicated GPS or PDA

 

Bye,

AK

[+SriSoKoSu]

So far people have compared PDA vs standalone GPS units mostly on durability and ruggedness.

 

What about GPS sensitivity and accuracy (as in locating a geocache as closely as possible) ? Are PDA based GPS units better in this respect or standalone ones ?

 

I already have and use a PPC based PDA with a SiRFStarIII based bluetooth GPS ... but I am often finding that the cache location shown using this system is far from accurate. Will I have better luck with GPS accuracy if I got a standalone unit ?

 

If so, which standalone units are the most accurate ? I don't care about auto routing and driving related features ... but I would like an accurate compass, if possible.

[+ZackJones]

I don't have any experience with a PPC with GPS but it is my understanding that enabling the GPS on the PPC really uses up the battery quite quickly. For me it's GPS for navigation and PPC for cache information.

[+Alan2]

I already have and use a PPC based PDA with a SiRFStarIII based bluetooth GPS ... but I am often finding that the cache location shown using this system is far from accurate. Will I have better luck with GPS accuracy if I got a standalone unit ?

 

SirfStar III is the most sensitive and accurate. While this chip was only available for PPC's and PDA's, they now are being used in garmin's "x" series recently released. If you are finding the cache is off, remember, even with Sirf III you can be 10-20 feet off. Add that to the original placer's error which could be much worse, you will always get something of a deviation.

 

Regarding batteries, I notice my CF GPS connected Sirf Star III lost about 15% of it's battery in about an hour or two of use. But it is a consideration and certainly less than a regular GPS. Plus, with the latter you can just throw in a couple of AA bats. With PDA's or PPC's you have dedicated batteries. Of course you could take a spare.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Alan2

[+Guitar4Him]

I have both....a Magellan eXplorist 500 and a Palm Tungsten T connected via bluetooth to a Fortuna GPSmart. However, I exclusively use my eXplorist 500 for locating caches. Once a cache has been located, I whip out my Palm Tungsten T and log the cache with CacheMate. Then, the Palm goes back into my pocket or into the pack. If I had gotten my Palm as wet and banged around as my eXplorist has gotten, it wouldn't be working. If you geocache in woods, cross streams, etc, your gps WILL get wet and banged around. PDA's aren't built to withstand such rugged treatement.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Guitar4Him

[+oneeyesquare]

I have a 60CS and a ipaq 4700 w/Globalsat BT GPS (sirf3) The iPaq beats the Garmin hands down. Full blown topo maps (Memory Map), integrated cache/navigation software (Beeline, Navio, etc.) , big gorgeous 4" screen.

It is significantly more complex to use. Lots of programs to learn, Bluetooth, map loading , memory management,etc.

 

The Garmin is lots easier, more durable (I'd never mount my iPaq on my ATV!), a pain in the arse to enter coords, never locks up, gets decent signal and is reasonably accurate. My wife prefers to cache with it. Less fuss.

 

Me, I like the power toy... In an AquaPac. Running cool software. Getting 9 sats in heavy tree cover. Being able to read the logs when the coords are not enough.

[+PocketSierra]

I have some experience using a Pocket PC GPS exclusively.

 

The advantages of going paperless, better screens, using your choice of software/maps, and entering coordinates much easier are compelling.

 

Their disadvantages can be overcome. I have taken my Pocket PC in thick rainstorms, blizzards, and sea kayaking, but I have it in an Otterbox. In this case, it is as durable as a Garmin or Magellan.

 

Battery life is also something to watch. Usually, a Pocket PC will have enough juice to last an afternoon or day, more if it is not always on. Geocaching, though, tends to be an always on activity. You can get cheap chargers on eBay that recharge a Pocket PC.

 

It costs a little to overcome durability and battery life, but not as much as it would to buy a separate handheld GPS. For some, it may not be worth the trouble. For someone like me who develops software for Pocket PC, and has many other uses for the device, it is worthwhile.

[+Kenundrum]

I have never owned a dedicated gps- i have used them, but for me a pda/gps solution is the best.

i have also used a few different gps products for pdas.

 

the biggest problem with pda based gps is the pda- most people don't want to spend that much money on a device. but if you've already got one- it's very easy to make into a gps machine. i went a little overboard- but i like my setup for the most part.

 

i've got a drybag for my pda similar to a soft otterbox. it's not just a ziploc bag and has substantial protection and i've never had a problem with it. sometimes finding a place for my gps is annoying- it's bluetooth and thus not attached to the pda. on occasion i stick it in the drybag- but i have since replaced mine and the newer one doesn't fit well inside. thankfully it has a belt clip that i can attach to my belt or backpack or due to its design i can just hold the gps in the same hand as the pda (sounds weird but it's possible)

to overcome battery life problems there are a few different options. if you've got the need for the pda- you can buy an extended life battery. they're expensive but they work very well and i've got one that lasts about 24 hours between charges.

there are also "emergency" chargers that can be used in non-emergency situations. most pdas can charge from 5v, 500mA- which is the amount of power a usb port puts out. so there are a lot of chargers with usb ports on them; you put a few AA batteries in and plug your pda into it and the pda thinks it's being charged from a computer. on average- the built in battery of a pda has about the same capacity as a AA battery, so i have one that has 4 AAs, it charges the device fully 4 times before the batteries die. with rechargeable batteries, i'm not wasting anything.

 

the problem i am still facing is find the perfect combination of software. every once in a while i field test all the available software packages out and find ones i like and hope they're free :-) so far i have only commited to 2- mapopolis for road navigation and Memory Map navigator for USGS topo maps. i use the road navigation software to drive to the cache site (or as close as possible) and it helps a lot with long distance multis.

Memory map allows me to view usgs topo maps which i bought but i've found it's not too great for geocaching but instead for plotting hikes i do.

i use gpxsonar to keep the cache listings with me with the logs and hints etc... and i think i am going to settle with VitoNavigator II for actually finding the caches in the field- it replicates the experience of a garmin eTrex for the most part.

The problem i've found is that there is no one perfect software. the software that tells me how to get there by road doesn't give me a directional arrow to find the cache in the woods. the software that guides me to the cache coordinates doesn't contain the cache info. so i've had to switch between running programs a lot and that becomes a hassle sometimes. i'm probably going to invest in GPSGate- which allows you to run 2 gps programs side by side with only one gps, which is not possible without it.

i have found one software that does combine tracking a la etrex and giving cache logs and such- but it's in beta and has some usability issues. it's called beeline gps.

 

in general though- if you want to do paperless caching- you need a pda with connectivity. you can't get a low end palm and expect it to work for anything other than just storing waypoint info. for the most part windows mobile pdas have more software available but there's a good amount for palms as well.

having some sort of wireless internet ability is good too... after i'm done with my find- i use bluetooth to dial into the internet through my cell phone and post my find while still walking back to the car. its a lot of fun. i'm also able to do many caches in the field that would otherwise require research at home.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Kenundrum

[+JDandDD]

SirfStar III is the most sensitive and accurate. While this chip was only available for PPC's and PDA's, they now are being used in garmin's "x" series recently released. If you are finding the cache is off, remember, even with Sirf III you can be 10-20 feet off. Add that to the original placer's error which could be much worse, you will always get something of a deviation.

 

 

Though I agree with most of what you say, the one thing that is not in the the SirfIII spec is improved accuracy. Improved acquisition time of signal, and sensitivity to lower power signal (in other words picking up signal under trees in buildings where signal is weak) is part of the spec. Because of this it will be more accurate to a certain extent. The reason they don't spec improved accuracy is because the GPS satellite system itself is the main problem. The civilian signal will only give 3m accuracy while the military signal we can't access gives less than 1m. The new European system being deployed is all civilian owned and when fully deployed will give all of us 1m ability.

 

I have a SirfIII system and an older Magellan Platinum and I can tell you they both give the same accuracy in all conditions.

 

JDandDD

[+SriSoKoSu]

the problem i am still facing is find the perfect combination of software. every once in a while i field test all the available software packages out and find ones i like and hope they're free :-) so far i have only commited to 2- mapopolis for road navigation and Memory Map navigator for USGS topo maps.

 

Have you tried GPS Tuner yet ? I currently use a system very similar to yours, where I use iGuidance for driving close to the cache and then use GPS Tuner for the rest of it. I use GPXView for keeping track of cache listings, hints etc.

 

While GPS Tuner works more or less okay, I would like to know if there is anything better out there.

 

I think I tried BeeLineGPS once, but didn't like it too much (or rather couldn't get used to it).

 

I am considering moving to a handheld GPS for the actual cache hunt process.

[+Cache Heads]

Well, for what it's worth... when I returned my eXplorist 600 out of frustration (freezing/joystick issues) I replaced it with a Bluetooth GPSr for my Treo to use with CacheMate/CacheNav and TomTom Navigator 5. I thought this would be a temporary setup until I decided which handheld GPSr to buy, but it has worked out so well that I haven't felt compelled to buy a dedicated GPSr. I take it hiking all the time and have even dropped it on concrete (I use a leather case) and it holds up pretty niceley. I wouldn't say it's better than my eXplorist was, but it was a lot cheaper since I already owned the Treo.

 

Here's the thread I started on this topic (before I had TomTom).

[+Alan2]

The problem i've found is that there is no one perfect software. the software that tells me how to get there by road doesn't give me a directional arrow to find the cache in the woods.

 

But your Mapopolis gives you the bearing arrow and compass rose as well as distance to cache in the GPS page. Have you tried it? Afyer you set the cache as the destination, turn off the navigation. Also switch off the lock on road.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Alan2