I Have Offended A New Geocacher

February 4, 2006

and I publicly apologize! The email conversation went as follows:

Me:

Sorry you weren't able to get into the cache. I'll see if I can get up there in the near future to break it out of the ice.

A suggestion: perhaps you could be a bit less descriptive when describing your finds as you did at "xxxxx cache". "hidden nicely in the tree" is way too much information!

The response:

Don't worry about the frozen cache at xxxxx. That's just the nature of winter.

About your suggestion that my comment "'hidden nicely in the tree' is way too much information!" - the decrypted information available at the xxxxx website includes the statement, "See the tree growing on top of the rock ledge. Cache is tucked into the hollow base." Since the developer of the cache felt it was O.K. to give that much information, I didn't think I was going beyond any protocol bounds.

Me:

Why do you suppose the cache originator chose to encrypt that useful bit of information as an "Additional Hint" rather than leaving it as clear text. Read the definition of "Spoilers" under "Logged Visits".

The response:

Well, congratulations, you've done it. As a person new to this interesting activity, I was hoping that this pursuit would be peopled by participants of good cheer. Alas, that is not so. Rest assured that I will no longer log in my visits so that I may avoid offending those of you of like mind who view the world as you do.

Please don't respond to this note because there really wouldn't be anything accomplished by it.

Oh well, my dog thinks I'm a person of good cheer!

3.9k · February 4, 2006

Wow! Well, if it is of any help to you, my opinion, as an independent observer, is that you said/wrote nothing at all wrong nor even impolite to that cacher and rather that you wrote a very calm and reasonable note with a calm and reasonable request; I have written several such notes to finders myself, and luckily, they all responded very positively and in a helpful mode. It was your respondent who somewhat over-reacted -- perhaps he/she is not used to communicating with other persons, or perhaps she/he was having a bad day, or perhaps he/she is just very thin-skinned and takes offense easily. In any case, not your problem and you are free to let go of it and move on!

38.2k · February 4, 2006

Looks like a very thinned skin person. Lets just say for the sake of argument you were rude and tactless. Its silly for him to allow one encounter color his perception of a sport that has many thousands of participants.

February 4, 2006

As I see it, you did nothing wrong. I am sorry that you feel you owe someone an apology for skewing their vision of caching!

February 4, 2006

I agree with the above posts, It is a shame that this person took this in that way instead of being able to tell that you were just trying to help out. Oh well .....

24.7k · February 4, 2006

Your intent was fine. Their ability to learn what you were trying to teach was stunted somewhere along the way in their life.

February 4, 2006

Geesh.. wonder what got under their skin..

Some people take things the wrong way no matter how you phrase it.

2.2k · February 4, 2006

might be worth a last email to try to explai nthat you really meant no harm or insult but were honestly trying to help. can't do anymore harm thatn has already been done. might smooth things over.

February 4, 2006

I agree with nobby. But if it isn't well taken then don't feel too bad. If I had gotten that email as a newer cacher I would have been a bit embaressed for making a faux pas and run to change my description. Then I would have sent you an email thanking you for helping me aviod such a mistake and helping to get it changed before EVERYONE saw it lol! For some reason, some people think they should know everything right away. Heck, even after studiously going through the rules and guidelines there are still things that I missed.

9.5k · February 4, 2006

Try to hold the door just long enough so it doesn't slap them in the back on the way out and wave buhbye to them. If they can't take constructive criticism, they obviously have issues that had nothing to do with you.

1.8k · February 4, 2006

Let's hope someone was just having a bad day.

20.7k · February 4, 2006

Wow. It's a good thing he's never come to the forums.

February 4, 2006

I never put spoilers in my logs, but remember, the website does say directly above the logs: "Warning. Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links."

When I first started caching, because of that statement I would always check the logs, pictures, and descriptions for hints (I still do). That statement is a full-on invitation for people to write spoilers in their logs.

Just a thought.

Greg

20.7k · February 4, 2006

Perhaps, but there is nothing wrong with cache owners policing these logs if they don't want spoilers in them.

5.2k · February 4, 2006

Wow. It's a good thing he's never come to the forums.

I was thinking the same thing!

1.3k · February 4, 2006

Perhaps, but there is nothing wrong with cache owners policing these logs if they don't want spoilers in them.

I don't see anything wrong with the friendly advice that SnG gave, but I don't think he was the owner of the cache in question.

Edited February 4, 2006 by Trinity's Crew

February 4, 2006

Trinity's Crew is correct, I am not the owner of the cache. The person (I'll refer to he/she as X) I offended had logged a "found it" for my cache and I didn't recognize the name as a local geocacher. I checked X's profile and found X had logged one other "found it" at a nearby cache. It was then I attempted to be helpful and started all this. Since then X has deleted the "found it" from my cache and edited the other cache's "found it" as shown below. I truly hope X doesn't somehow recognize me on some remote trail! Whew!

[Had a wonderful, quiet walk along the access road, then N. along the river for a short ways. GPS was working well so found the cache,] rira gubhtu vg jnf uvqqra avpryl va gur gerr. Npprff jnf n yvggyr ovg gevpxl fvapr gurer jnf fabj naq vpr ba gur yrqtr. [My colleague's first cache and it was just a challenge enough so that she enjoyed the trip. We both agreed that winter is a better time to search since the visibility is so much greater with no leaves on the trees.

After being chastised for providing too much information in my original post, I have provided encryption for part of this log entry. I believe that what I've stated now is in line with the description given by the originator and parallels his/her level of encryption.][This entry was edited by formerflyer on Friday, February 03, 2006 at 6:37:59 PM.]

20.7k · February 4, 2006

That kind of changes the issue for me. I think you should send him a note to smooth it over.

1.8k · February 4, 2006

Me:
Why do you suppose the cache originator chose to encrypt that useful bit of information as an "Additional Hint" rather than leaving it as clear text. Read the definition of "Spoilers" under "Logged Visits".

I would be offended as well, to begin with, your first sentence should have ended with a question mark. By ending it with a period, you convey an irritated tone. Secondly, you commanded the newbie to do something in the second sentence. You could have been a little softer with that command. Next time try this ...

"Look dipstick, either you do what I say or get the hell outta the way"

February 4, 2006

I think your intent was good, the execution flawed. If you were talking to a hardened geo-cacher it would be fine, he should know better and may have either not cared or done it on purpose. But when talking to someone feeling their way around and starting out, explanation and guidance beats snippy every time.

February 4, 2006

Yay. One less new cacher to worry about. They've been popping up everywhere. (Even though we were all new at one point.) Some people just don't have the ability to use logic properly.

Please forgive my pessimistic attitude.

1.5k · February 5, 2006

Some people write out how to find the cache in the write-up telling you about the cache. This is different then posting a spoilier log or picture. If the owner tells you in the write up how to find it, good for you, and what are they thinking for them.

As for the new cacher, if he/she/they want to continue caching they will either come back when they have settled down and cause havoic as a sock or go find someone where to do their thing

5.8k · February 5, 2006

I don't want to get into an arguement, but...

I've had occasion to send helpful emails to some new users, and have never been unfortunate enough to have offended any. Although not exactly the same situation, my notes have gone something like this.

"Hey there,

I have xxxxx cache on my watchlist, and so I saw the log you posted for it. Congratulations on your find, and welcome to the game. I also saw in the log that you have included the tracking number for the Travel Bug that you grabbed. Usually we try to avoid listing the actual tracking number, as some players may not be entirely honest, and this would enable them to track the bug when they don't really have it. If you look on the TB's page you will see another tracking number that is alpfa-numeric. This is the number that is more suitable for listing in your logs. If you want to go back and edit the number out of your log, I can let you know how to do that. Good luck out there, and thanks for your ear, WRITE SHOP ROBERT

Although the intentions appear good natured, a little extra tact can go a long way. One may want to aproach a new player in a different way than one who has been in the game for a longer time. Good luck with your future correspondance. WSR

Edited February 5, 2006 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

February 5, 2006

Come on...where's all the other side?? I too would have been turned off by an email from a supposed hardened geoveteran. The cache owner is the only one with the right to police log entries. I think the cacher was the one showing tact in his replies, if it were me I would have replied with a quick MYOB but then again my cache name should be crusty

above post is purly due to fishing season being closed

February 5, 2006

I am probably wrong but it seems to me that most "experienced" cachers never take the side of the new guy. The newbie’s are fun to bash in the forums right? Maybe this person is a little thin skinned but who cares? I might take a little offense if I was criticized about something after my very first find....dang, cut em a little slack. Then, to top it off, you decide to put the whole thing on the forum, was that really a good idea? Now this poor guy can get bashed by all the other "experienced" cachers. Leave this person alone and let them learn about this game on their own. The "training" that comes from the veterans is useless and always inconsistent. A lot of you people take something enjoyable and turn it into a turd. 10 finds or 1000 finds, your still just someone looking for a plastic big mac in the woods. :blink:

20.7k · February 5, 2006

Mmmm.... Big Mac. :blink:

Seriously, keep reading the thread. Not everyone agreed with what/how everything happened.

February 5, 2006

Your right, But I did say "most' experienced cachers....

20.7k · February 5, 2006

Now where do I find those Big Macs in the woods?

Yummmmm... Two all-beef patties.....

1.8k · February 5, 2006

Now where do I find those Big Macs in the woods?

Yummmmm... Two all-beef patties.....

Is 'Big Mac' a metaphor ? Wait ... don't answer. Not sure I want to know ... :blink:

20.7k · February 5, 2006

No metaphor. There's a reason that I've packed on thrity pounds since my accident.

February 5, 2006

Now where do I find those Big Macs in the woods?

Yummmmm... Two all-beef patties.....

Is 'Big Mac' a metaphor ? Wait ... don't answer. Not sure I want to know ...

And don't forget the "special sauce"... :blink:

Now repeat after me:

"I will be *sensitive* to your needs..."

Sent... suh... tiv...

Major Payne

February 7, 2006

Your comments and suggestions were fine. Nothing you can do about hyper-sensitive people.

February 7, 2006

I Know you were trying to be helpful. I think the fact that is was not your cache and you were "imposing you will" is what did it. There seem to be a lot of touch people around here....

5.3k · February 7, 2006

Wow. It's a good thing he's never come to the forums.

I was thinking the same thing!

I have always felt the forums were full up warm fuzzies.

38.2k · February 7, 2006

I am probably wrong but it seems to me that most "experienced" cachers never take the side of the new guy. The newbie’s are fun to bash in the forums right? Maybe this person is a little thin skinned but who cares? I might take a little offense if I was criticized about something after my very first find....dang, cut em a little slack. Then, to top it off, you decide to put the whole thing on the forum, was that really a good idea? Now this poor guy can get bashed by all the other "experienced" cachers. Leave this person alone and let them learn about this game on their own. The "training" that comes from the veterans is useless and always inconsistent. A lot of you people take something enjoyable and turn it into a turd. 10 finds or 1000 finds, your still just someone looking for a plastic big mac in the woods.

Quit this newbie bashing baloney. Its not what's going on here.

Out of curiousity, how is a novice supposed to learn on their own that they are doing something wrong? I know if I was new to a sport and was violating a written or unwritten rule or a more, I'd be happy to have someone set me straight. If you see someone with toilet paper stuck to his shoe do you point it out to him or let him walk around with it for comic relieif?

I think when you see a newbie doing something wrong, letting them know is the kind thing to do. I've done it and in nearly every instance was thanked. Most newbies don't want to join a sport and piss people off and are happy to be set straight. Some may be embarrassed and lash back, but I think that reaction is rare.

Or should I have ignored the new guy who started leaving granola bars in caches? That way he would keep doing it and maybe generate ill will among the cache owners who had to go out and remove them. I thought it was a kindness to let him know that it was not a good idea and he was very thankful that I let him know.

Edited February 7, 2006 by briansnat

February 7, 2006

I am not an experienced cacher, but I have taken it upon myself to check up on a couple of travel bugs and caches that have not been visited in a long time. One bug was listed as grabbed, but the people didn't log it out of the cache. I emailed them about it, and another cacher emailed back - they had gotten married and moved while waiting for the house to be built, and the bug was packed in a box somewhere. They said they would email the bug's owner and let them know. The bug had been re-issued already, but it was kinda' nice to know they hadn't dropped out of the hobby or anything.

The other was a DNF I had gotten, the owner hadn't been on in several months. I shot an email about the shrubbery being WELL pruned and cleaned, and something to the effect of, "Hope all is okay with you, we haven't met, but I see you haven't been on in a while so i thought i would send you a quick note. Blah Blah about the cache, and again, I hope you are out caching again soon. Maybe we will run into you sometime!" It was disabled a few days later with a note about the cleanup being TOO well done.

I think a whole lot of "subtle" is lost in an unemotional text post to someone. If there was a way to interject the sarcasm and snickers that go along with some of the emails and posts, it would sure be less prickly to those that are just a little over-sensitive...

Edited February 7, 2006 by Zzyzx Road

2.1k · February 8, 2006

I don't want to get into an argument, but...

Although the intentions appear good natured, a little extra tact can go a long way. One may want to approach a new player in a different way than one who has been in the game for a longer time. Good luck with your future correspondence. WSR

I agree with WSR's advice. The OP brought this item here because they saw that their approach didn't work out well.

This is not a matter of how thick skin is nor is it a survival-of-the-fittest type game. Its a matter of showing respect for the person we are writing to. I too believe the OP meant no disrespect to the finder but it is soooo easy with email to write from a friendly frame of mind and have it come off sounding negative, argumentative or snobbish.

February 8, 2006

Now that his business is published all over this forum and his name appears in the edit........

I really hope he or anyone that he caches with doesn't wander into this forum!! His feelings will be crushed.

This sport is new to me also and some of the more experienced cachers can be intimidating to us!

Won't let it change the sport, just make sure we treat new cachers as we would like to be treated.

Edited February 8, 2006 by GeoSchmodie

38.2k · February 8, 2006

I really hope he or anyone that he caches with doesn't wander into this forum!! His feelings will be crushed.

You are assuming a lot. Perhaps he will be greatful.

1.5k · February 8, 2006

Your right, But I did say "most' experienced cachers....

Oh wait.... I thought you said "The MOST experienced Cacher". :mad:

I would like to take the opposing arguement... so .... which side am I on?

I believe I'll argue the newbies point of view. :mad:

Being new to the hobby, I would expect a seasoned veteran to take it easy on me.

I would be surprised :mad: to get an e-mail saying I logged a cache wrong.

How many ways can there be to log a find? Is there a right and a wrong way?

Is there a book explaining all these rules? Do I need to get Mopar or Lep to help me?

I've had the same situation happen to me..... repeatedly. However, when communicating with a 'newer' cacher, I always strike up a conversation and get to know them first.....before bringing up any controversial subject. They may have taken up geocaching to get away from controversy at work!

I still log them wrong :huh:

February 8, 2006

I would be surprised to get an e-mail saying I logged a cache wrong.

How many ways can there be to log a find? Is there a right and a wrong way?

Why would you be surprised? When I start something new, I know that I can't know all the stuff at once.

And with geocaching there's no official rulebook you have to study first.

So you're new, you might make a mistake. And when some helpful cacher tells you what you did wrong, you're happy that you won't make the mistake again.

How else to learn what not to do, when nobody tells you?

Reacting in a childish way is just - childish :mad:

9.5k · February 8, 2006

Agreed. I've always advocated peer to peer education with this sport. That's why my previous reply to help them on the way out if they are that thin skinned they can't take a nudge from somebody to do what's right.

I Have Offended A New Geocacher

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