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Garmin Gpsmap 60cs<->csx And Tree Canopy


alpamayo

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I'm the owner of a gpsmap 60CS that I use just for hiking with my own home-made topo maps.

 

Many of my hikes are under tree cover or in deep valleys (if not canyons). In such case I often neet to plug in the Gilsson external antenna.

 

I wonder how the 60CSx behaves in such places and if any of you have some comparative results.

 

Is the 60CSx sensitive enough not to need the external antenna?

 

In other words, would you say that the 60Cs+Gilsson antenna equals in sensitivity the 60CSx (with no external antenna)?

 

Or is the 60CSx definitely and by far better than the previous unit?

 

I'm really curious to know something about it as I have to decide whether to save or not the money to buy the new unit. I'm not that interested in the TransFlash memory card as much as losing the signal.

 

Also (very important)::

Is the 60CSx compatible with home-made topo maps?

 

Thank you.

Mike

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The 60CSx would be like having a better insurance policy, in that you get better Track Data for your maps, and more accurate Trip Odometer info, but from what I see, the TIME STOPPED may not work to well on the GPS. The Map60C is the one I have, and even in a fairly open area, I tend to get stray signals at times, causing spurs in my tracklog, and this should be less of an issue with the Map60CSx.

 

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Added in:

 

don't know exactly what you mean by homemade topo maps, but I can print National Geographic TOPO! maps.

 

Only Garmin Maps can be loaded into the GPS, and it take alot of work and a bit money for 2 or 3 pieces of software to make your own maps for the GPS(Not easy).

 

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Geoff

Edited by GOT GPS?
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I can only remark on the tree cover part. I was geocaching this weekend and had gone through some thick pines with some small hills inside it. My "old" 60c would have either lost reception or had an extremely week signal but the 60csx held at the least half of the sats the whole time. Even when I was looking for the cache and I put the unit in my pocket. Afterwards it was still locked onto those same sats. I am very satisfied with the new unit and how well it locks onto sats.

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don't know exactly what you mean by homemade topo maps, but I can print National Geographic TOPO! maps.

 

Only Garmin Maps can be loaded into the GPS, and it take alot of work and a bit  money for 2 or 3 pieces of software to make your own maps for the GPS(Not easy).

 

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Geoff

When I said "homemade" maps I meant Garmin-compatible vector maps I made myself with the help of GpsMapEdit , cgpsmapper and a lot of work (by the way, both programs are free).

 

Thanks for your report guys.

 

I do hope someone made some side by side tests and posted their results.

If the 60csx (and no external antenna) does NOT outperform the 60cs+Gilsson antenna, I won't waste any more money.

 

Mike

 

edited for typos

Edited by alpamayo
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I can comment on side-by-side results. I had my trusty 60C along with my new 60CX the other day while surveying in woods in upstate NY in the southern Adirondacks. The conditions were in a heavy hardwood and evergreen mix (leaf off of course in Jan) and hilly terrain but with an eastern and southern exposure, with streams cutting small ravines in spots. I had WAAS correction most of the time.

 

Both units had WAAS enabled (I always leave WAAS enabled). My 60CX w/SiRF consistently held 8 to 10 SVs locked in all but the worst conditions, where my 60C would have a lesser number in the same situations, often dropping to 4 or 5. I never lost a GPS fix with my 60CX, but did with my 60C on a couple occasions. Then, I hooked my Garmin GA 25 MCX external antenna to the 60C. It pulled a couple more SVs and increased the signal strength bars, but my 60CX by itself still had more SVs and strong signal bars. The 60CX held WAAS lock more often than my 60C (w/external antenna) as it just gets all signals better. For the very best results that day I just went with my 60CX and used the external antenna as well since I had it along, and performed awesomely. I saw a little increase in signal strength but I don't think you'll need help form an antenna with the 60CX. It's just that good. Heck, I get 10 SVs w/WAAS correction sitting in my bedroom 10' from any window.

 

So to answer your question, I feel my 60CX did better by itself than my 60C did with external antenna. And overall my 60CX grabs signal it the most challenging situations. Now, add the expandable memory ability and I feel my money was well spent! I still love my 60C, but it will be taking backseat to my 60CX.

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Thanks Timpat for your precious input.

 

It seems this new unit really is a step forward. I just need to make sure it supports user-made maps and the decision is made.

 

By the way, the Garmin GA 25 MCX external antenna is NOT preamplified (unlike the Gilsson), right?

 

Mike

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The free version of GPSMapEdit, does not handle Topo contour lines, and does not handle Autorouting map data, so I had deleted it off of my hard drive. Seemed like they wanted a bit of money, just to be able to edit Garmin TOPO or City Select maps, with my own Trails using my Tracklogs of trails, and also I cannot add the trails to edited City Select maps either.

 

I kinda wished I could go this route of using GPSMapEdit to also add in my own POI too. This would have been neat.

 

-

Geoff

Edited by GOT GPS?
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Thanks Timpat for your precious input.

 

It seems this new unit really is a step forward. I just need to make sure it supports user-made maps and the decision is made.

 

By the way, the Garmin GA 25 MCX external antenna is NOT preamplified (unlike the Gilsson), right?

 

Mike

Take a look at this GA 25 MCX review from Allory Deiss. This should address any questions you have as I'm not familiar with electronics. Happy to be of help by the way.

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The free version of GPSMapEdit, does not handle Topo contour lines

Wrong. I use it all the time. I just don't understand how you're not able to draw contour lines with it. If you can elaborate on it, please.

 

does not handle Autorouting map data

That's a totally different question. You do the autorouting with cgpsmapper, not gpsmapedit. The system is a little rudimental yet and if you want FULL autorouting, then you have to buy the commercial version of cgpsmapper. But .... there is a but.

If you prepare your own original .mp map and submit it to mapcenter to share with everybody, in a few hours mapcenter will produce the related .img file with full autorouting for free. Please check it out HERE

 

just to be able to edit Garmin TOPO or City Select maps

You say you're not able to edit those maps. Have you tried to open the .img maps with the LATEST version of gpsmapedit? Gpsmapedit DOES have a timebomb inside. After a set time (a few months usually) it won't allow you to open those img files. But when that happens there usually is a newer version of it that works. ;-)

You open the img file, save it as a .mp file, edit it at will and recompile it with cgpsmapper. You will lose the routing capabilities of that file though.

If routing is an issue you need to add further information to the map. You may want to take a look at this link http://cgpsmapper.com/en/route.htm and start from there.

Not being interested in routable maps I've never gone that path.

However I must warn you that decompiling Garmin maps is considered a copyright violation.

For the same reason MapCenter will reject original Garmin maps edited and submitted to take advantage of the free routable compiler. They have to be made from scratch to be accepted.

 

To sum it up:

You should have no problem editing and recompiling the TOPO maps since they don't have any routing capabilities (as far as I know). You may add contour lines, POI and tracks.

City Select maps if edited will lose the routing feature. However you may always make a transparent map with additional details to overlay the original ones.

 

So, as you see, you are presented with a lot of possibilities.

However, like I said in my previous post, the path is rough and winding and the learning curve is very steep.

In order to be operative it took me many weeks of reading/studying and a lot of motivation is needed.

There is also a yahoo "support" group which helped me in times of "trouble"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/map_authors/

 

Up to you.

 

Mike

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I do hope someone made some side by side tests and posted their results.

I've done some comparisions between a 60CS, 60CSX, and an Explorist 600 side by side.

If the 60csx (and no external antenna) does NOT outperform the 60cs+Gilsson antenna, I won't waste any more money.
Now that you mention it, though, I do have a Gilsson that's never been plugged into a 60. That might be an interesting test.

 

Those tests are fairly painful to run and analyze, but I'll put it on my list. I've been kinda busy with geek GPS projects so I'm reluctant to byte off too many more.

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The free version of GPSMapEdit, does not handle Topo contour lines, and does not handle Autorouting map data, so I had deleted it off of my hard drive. Seemed like they wanted a bit of money, just to be able to edit Garmin TOPO or City Select maps, with my own Trails using my Tracklogs of trails, and also I cannot add the trails to edited City Select maps either.

 

I kinda wished I could go this route of using GPSMapEdit to also add in my own POI too. This would have been neat.

 

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Geoff

There are several programs available that will take 1:24K Dem data (freely available) and convert them into a shape file, which you then can import into Map Edit. Making maps "routable" is a heck of a lot of work.....in order to keep my routing capabilities in City Select 7, I have made custom topo overlays (transparent) to use and view simultaneously with city Select 7. The topo has Contour lines at intervals i have specified for best screen viewing on the 60cs,....included is the hydrography (again, freely downloaded DLG data and converted to shape files for Map Edit import) which contains all streams, rivers, wetlands and swamps. The "topo" overlays the City Select, both maps being visible), still allows for autorouting, and can be "turned off" at any time. Similarly, trails can be converted to vector data for inclusion into a topo overlay.

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I do hope someone made some side by side tests and posted their results.

I've done some comparisions between a 60CS, 60CSX, and an Explorist 600 side by side.

If the 60csx (and no external antenna) does NOT outperform the 60cs+Gilsson antenna, I won't waste any more money.
Now that you mention it, though, I do have a Gilsson that's never been plugged into a 60. That might be an interesting test.

 

Those tests are fairly painful to run and analyze, but I'll put it on my list. I've been kinda busy with geek GPS projects so I'm reluctant to byte off too many more.

Thanks a lot, Robert, for taking that suggestion into consideration :huh: . I surely look forward to your results (as I hope our community).

 

I read your comparison test page. Well I knew the 60cs was going to be a loser when compared to the explorist 600 and 60CSx :) It seems this SirfStar III chipset is doing an awesome job.

 

I'll certainly stay tuned. :)

 

Mike

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I live in New Zealand on the west coast of the North Island. I have just bought my fifth gps in the form of a 60csx. My previouse unit was the 60cs. I feel that the gps technology has finally matured to be useful in difficult conditions such as the bush that we encounter here. I have used all my previouse gps's in our bush and never been able to hold a lock more than about 30 meters. To get a lock at all has meant waiting a couple of minutes and moving about hoping to get a little gap between branches etc to get the lock. I nearly always managed a lock and so the gps was allways useful but it was less than satisfactory.

All this changed with the 60csx. On a recent hike I maintained lock all day, I can not overstate the difference between this unit and previous Garmins. Finally the experience I had hoped for since I got my first GPS probably something like a decade ago.

Regards,

John.

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.... just to be able to edit Garmin TOPO or City Select maps, with my own Trails using my Tracklogs of trails, and also I cannot add the trails to edited City Select maps either.

 

I kinda wished I could go this route of using GPSMapEdit to also add in my own POI too. This would have been neat.

You do not need to edit the existing maps. You make the POI maps transparent and you can then load them with the City Select maps and view them at the same time, while maintaining the existing routing.

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