Fake Coordinates

[+ibycus]

A recently published cache in the area got me thinking about fake coordinates people use on their puzzle caches.

 

IIRC, we used to be restricted as to how far away from the actual cache location we could place the fake coordinates (obviously to help out the reviewers). Is this still the case?

 

I've been thinking it might be a good idea to place all of my puzzle caches in one location, kind of stack em' up. This location would be somewhere that would be litterally impossible to search, and the coordinates would be somewhat familiar to local cachers (I'm thinking the top of the Calgary Tower....)

 

There are a few major benefits to this.

 

No matter how obvious you think it is that a cache isn't hidden at a given location, someone is going to try searching there. I had this happen with a couple of my caches. Worst part was, the 'fake' coordinates turned out to be in someone's front yard. This obviously isn't a good thing.

 

Then of course there are the times when you just randomly assign coordinates. It can and does happen that these coordinates will randomly overlap with existing caches (or come close enough that the caches could be confused). Obviously this shouldn't be such an issue in the future, but for now, we still have many older puzzles where the final locations aren't immediately visible to reviewers.

 

So how do the rest of you choose your fake coordinates?

[+Lil Devil]

IIRC, we used to be restricted as to how far away from the actual cache location we could place the fake coordinates (obviously to help out the reviewers). Is this still the case?

From the Guidelines:

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles away from the true cache location. This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of Travel Bugs that find their way into the cache reasonably correct.

[+Moose Mob]

There have been discussions that coords for the mystery caches in a specific area be centered on a lake or some other inaccessible location, but that added to the confusion. It seems to work out better if the coordinates given for a mystery cache would be the parking coordinates or some location within a mile or two of the cache.

 

With the given coordinates being relatively close to the actual coordinates, it would let the finder know what part of the state the cache was in.

[+Lil Devil]

So how do the rest of you choose your fake coordinates?

Of the two puzzles I put have made, the false coords of one were in the middle of a major freeway interchange, and the other in the middle of the street in front of a business that matches the theme of the puzzle.

 

Some other places I've seen as false coords that are cool are the middle of a lake, or the middle of the track field at a school.

[+ibycus]

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles away from the true cache location. This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of Travel Bugs that find their way into the cache reasonably correct.

 

Does this still apply? Now that we can add corrected 'final' coordinates to a cache that are hidden from the world, all of these issues should be simple addressable. (Proximity searches aren't really *that* much of an issue, but I suppose you automagically fuzz the coordinates/distances so that they would still show up as distance).

 

To me, it seems that the penalties incurred (i.e. having someone accidentally search in an area that is unsafe/offlimits) are less than the problems of slightly inaccurate T.B. miles, or not getting your cache in a proximity search of a given area (heck I might not *want* people to know that cache x is in park y)

 

**edit people replied while I was typing which obscurred what I was replying to**

Edited January 30, 2006 by ibycus

[Keystone]

The quoted guideline regarding posted coordinates for puzzle caches continues to apply. It is not affected by the recent feature enhancement for "Additional Waypoints," because searching for the nearest caches and and calculating TB mileage use the posted coordinates.

 

It is OK to stack several puzzles up at the same coordinates, provided that the location is truly meaningless to any of the puzzles, like the middle of a lake. Not OK if they all share a historic marker or information sign as a common starting point, and the finder needs to write down information found at that spot.

 

But, as noted, it can get confusing to have multiple caches at the exact same coordinates. People looking at their maps may not even notice that there's more than one cache, and wind up missing one or more other caches that share the same posted coordinates.

Edited January 30, 2006 by Keystone

[+ibycus]

Of the two puzzles I put have made, the false coords of one were in the middle of a major freeway interchange,

 

This almost seems to make my point. Some idiot may try looking there (hey maybe its a micro, or a nano, maybe its underneath), and get run over.

 

and the other in the middle of the street in front of a business that matches the theme of the puzzle.

 

I wonder if anyone went to look around the business location when they were looking for the cache? I wonder if people wondered what the heck they were doing...

 

Some other places I've seen as false coords that are cool are the middle of a lake,

 

Lakes are good. I like lakes. . Problem is, there are many areas that are no where near lakes.

 

or the middle of the track field at a school.

 

Again, if someone goes searching there, it may 'cause alarm'.

[+ibycus]

The quoted guideline regarding posted coordinates for puzzle caches continues to apply. It is not affected by the recent feature enhancement for "Additional Waypoints," because searching for the nearest caches and and calculating TB mileage use the posted coordinates.

 

It is OK to stack several puzzles up at the same coordinates, provided that the location is truly meaningless to any of the puzzles, like the middle of a lake. Not OK if they all share a historic marker or information sign as a common starting point, and the finder needs to write down information found at that spot.

 

But, as noted, it can get confusing to have multiple caches at the exact same coordinates. People looking at their maps may not even notice that there's more than one cache, and wind up missing one or more other caches that share the same posted coordinates.

Thanks Keystone.

 

I guess I'm just looking for an easy way to choose fake coordinates. A few times now, in retrospect my choices haven't been the best (someone's front lawn, near a McDonald's Drive Through Window), and now I'm stuck with those coordinates.

 

To me, the location of the fake coordinates are almost as important as the 'real' ones as far as searching for it goes (and probably guidelines). Its just when it comes to submitting the cache, I tend to forget that (it's only something I think about every few months).

[+the hermit crabs]

Of the two puzzles I put have made, the false coords of one were in the middle of a major freeway interchange,

This almost seems to make my point. Some idiot may try looking there (hey maybe its a micro, or a nano, maybe its underneath), and get run over.

*shrug*

 

Darwinism at work.

[+ibycus]

Of the two puzzles I put have made, the false coords of one were in the middle of a major freeway interchange,

This almost seems to make my point. Some idiot may try looking there (hey maybe its a micro, or a nano, maybe its underneath), and get run over.

*shrug*

 

Darwinism at work.

True. But I really don't want people to be squished at my caches. They might make a mess, and there may be all kinds of legal 'thingies' to deal with.

[+The Leprechauns]

Of the two puzzles I put have made, the false coords of one were in the middle of a major freeway interchange,

This almost seems to make my point. Some idiot may try looking there (hey maybe its a micro, or a nano, maybe its underneath), and get run over.

*shrug*

 

Darwinism at work.

True. But I really don't want people to be squished at my caches. They might make a mess, and there may be all kinds of legal 'thingies' to deal with.

I would simply up the difficulty rating by a star or two. And, if the squishy mess cannot be completely removed, then maybe add a star on the terrain side as well.

[+blackjack65]

And, if the squishy mess cannot be completely removed, then maybe add a star on the terrain side as well.

No need to, as a Mystery cache does not involve going to the starting coordinates.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Proximity searches aren't really *that* much of an issue

 

I really have to disagree with you here. The fake coords need to be near enough the actual coords that the folks who notice and work on the cache are not unhappy when they discover that the real location is an hour's drive away. This, BTW, actually happened when a cache placer used coords 25 miles from the solution. The reviewer must have missed it, but the FTF was less than pleased. Those particular 25 miles were probably over 50 by road and a lot of through urban sprawl. (The coords have been shifted to 1.13 miles away).

[+ibycus]

Well obviously you don't want to be insanely far out. Personally I'd put any 'fake coordinates' in a central location for the area the cache is in. (as in within the same city).

[+5winters]

And, if the squishy mess cannot be completely removed, then maybe add a star on the terrain side as well.

No need to, as a Mystery cache does not involve going to the starting coordinates.

I agree the fake coordinates need to be close enough to the starting point. The 1-2 mile range should be followed. There is a muti nearby with fake starting coordinates in a field on the other side of town from the real starting coordinates, at about 8 miles away, which meant another trip on another day. So its not limited to mystery type caches. But I think the use of fake corrdinates should be limited to mystery caches.

[+ibycus]

And, if the squishy mess cannot be completely removed, then maybe add a star on the terrain side as well.

No need to, as a Mystery cache does not involve going to the starting coordinates.

I agree the fake coordinates need to be close enough to the starting point. The 1-2 mile range should be followed. There is a muti nearby with fake starting coordinates in a field on the other side of town from the real starting coordinates, at about 8 miles away, which meant another trip on another day. So its not limited to mystery type caches. But I think the use of fake corrdinates should be limited to mystery caches.

I'm not sure I follow that... Are you saying that one stage of the multi was 8 miles from the next stage? Or that the coordinates on the page weren't for the first stage of the cache.

 

I agree, other than for 'unknown' caches, there should always be *something* at the starting location.

 

My feeling as far as the 1->2 mile rule on 'unknown' caches is that if you haven't already read the page, then you're probably not going to actually find the cache on that trip anyways.

 

Personally I know that my travel bug mileages aren't going to be an accurate indication of exactly how far my bugs have moved (you're always going to have further to go on driving to the cache, or not being placed right away, or whatever) so +/- 20km on a log seems perfectly acceptable.

[+jon & miki]

Sometimes we've used the most likely parking spot for the bogus coordinates. Another approach is to let the bogus location mark a weak hint (for example, if the cache involves prime numbers, the bogus coordinates could point to a sign with the word "prime" in it).

[+5winters]

Sorry I wasnt clear. The posted coordinates for a multi were fake coordinates there is nothing at the site it is acctually unaccessable. The real start coordiantes were 8 miles away. Granted I first went after this one whial in newby phase so I didn't fully read the cache page, thinking that you go to the coordinates listed to start the hunt. Then being dissapointed at arriving at the location to find that I was on the other side of town after reading the cache page near the posted location.

 

I was trying to make the point that regular caches have fake coordinates posted. Which should not be allowed.

 

Hopefully this it more clear... returning to lurker mode

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

I guess I'm just looking for an easy way to choose fake coordinates. A few times now, in retrospect my choices haven't been the best (someone's front lawn, near a McDonald's Drive Through Window), and now I'm stuck with those coordinates.

 

 

I think you can adjust the coordinates up to about 150 yards just by editing the cache page. If you change the coordinates too much then it will need to be re-approved.

 

John

[+shunra]

This almost seems to make my point. Some idiot may try looking there (hey maybe its a micro, or a nano, maybe its underneath), and get run over.

*shrug*

 

Darwinism at work.

Nah, intelligent design.

[+ibycus]

I guess I'm just looking for an easy way to choose fake coordinates. A few times now, in retrospect my choices haven't been the best (someone's front lawn, near a McDonald's Drive Through Window), and now I'm stuck with those coordinates.

 

 

I think you can adjust the coordinates up to about 150 yards just by editing the cache page. If you change the coordinates too much then it will need to be re-approved.

 

John

Yeah, but the adjustment required to 'invalidate' the location is probably more than 150', so reviewer intervention would be required. (its amazing how few places there are where you *couldn't* hide a cache within 10m of that location.)

[+Right Wing Wacko]

For my one and only (so far) puzzle cache, I chose a location in the middle of a nearby river. I purposly chose a spot that would be impossible to attempt a cache search.

[+The Blue Quasar]

The fake coordinates should have some relation to the actual cache itself, IMHO.

 

Not just because the guidelines suggest it, but as a common politeness. And probably the reason it is in the guidelines is because it reduces problems for both hiders and seekers.

 

We have a series of 5 (for now) puzzle caches that all list the exact same coordinates, which happens to be the mutual parking spot for all of them. It works fine, but so would adding .001 to the N/W each time too.

 

But yes.. randomly picking a set of coordinates is probably not the best approach.

 

Just my thoughts, and I've broken this too, the listed coordinates for a Traditional MUST be where the cache is, and for all others like Multi and Puzzle they should be either the parking, or the starting point (first stage). There are exceptions... I have used coords that had nothing to do with anything... and I regret it, but I couldn't post parking as it would have spoiled the puzzles. I should have done something better, and determined a set of fake coordinates that were not only obviously wrong, but stackable to it didn't impact potential future caches.

 

Hmmm... maybe I should edit those (with local Reviewer's assistance).

 

Thanks for something to chew on.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+Team GPSaxophone]

15 miles west, heck 5 miles west of "in town" are some pretty big mountains. If I want to hunt for a cache in the city, I don't want to get to stage 1 and find that the next waypoint is way up in the mountains. Especially this time of year.

 

I suggest using the parking coordinates for the bogus location. It won't help them find the cache since a 1-2 mile radius is a lot of land to cover, and it will put the cache in the right area. I like to hunt for more than one cache on a trail. If they are both multis or puzzles, I'll work them at the same time (if I can). If there is only one cache there, I probably won't hunt for it, the same as I won't know it's there if the bogus coords are in a part of town I'm not in that day.

[+DocDiTTo]

One local mystery cache used a farmer's barn for the location of the fake coords. The cache page even stated the posted coords were bogus. The fake coords needed to be moved after a couple cachers actually went up to the farmers house and knocked on the door to inquire about the cache.

 

Even though 99% of the caching population is clued in, there will always be those 1% whose goal is to some day work their way up to the bottom of the bell curve. Take them into consideration when you pick your spot for fake coordinates.

 

edit: Link

Edited February 2, 2006 by DocDiTTo