Park Visitors Warned Of Mine Shaft Danger

[+Kiersolvd]

Park visitors warned of mine shaft danger

2006-01-30

by Dean A. Radford

Journal Reporter

 

BELLEVUE -- A high-tech version of a treasure hunt is sending more people into the wilds of Cougar Mountain Regional Wildland Park and potentially putting them at risk of falling into an old mine shaft.

 

County parks officials and a national mine official will hold a public meeting Tuesday to talk about the mine shafts that dot the wildland park south of Bellevue.

 

One reason for the meeting now is the popularity of geocaching -- using Global Positioning System or GPS in pursuit of the next clue in a hunt, according to Doug Williams, a spokesman for the county Department of Natural Resources and Parks.

 

The information is particularly important for those park users who stray from the marked trails in the park or go to remote areas for whatever reason.

 

Coal was mined at Cougar Mountain and much of King County for decades, leaving behind old mine entrances and shafts, some of which have yet to be marked.

 

``There are a lot of hazards associated with that historic mining activity,'' Williams said.

 

The goal of the meeting is to raise awareness about these hazards, he said.

 

The county has already identified and marked or closed some of these shafts, working with the federal Office of Surface Mining, he said. But an unknown number remain unidentified.

 

Dean Radford covers King County. He can be reached at dean.radford@kingcoun tyjournal.com or 253-872-6719.

[+Kiersolvd]

I'm not aware of any issues regarding the currently active set of caches on Cougar Mt.

[MarcusArelius]

You beat me, I was just about to post that article. I would like to know what prompted the geocaching comment.

 

I did have a problem with the waypoint placement of a multi-cache a while back that is now archived. A new cacher had placed it.

Edited January 30, 2006 by MarcusArelius

[+WeightMan]

While I have not done all the caches in Cougar Mountain Park, all of them that I have done, or tried, are fairly close to the trail system. The only cache in the park (according to Streets and Trips' boundaries) is Long View Peak. I do have a DNF in the park, but I know that it is very close to the trail. I just didn't reach far enough and I shall find that one the next time I am in the area.

 

There are several caches east of the park, but they are not in the King County Park.

[MarcusArelius]

You must be kidding there are over a dozen active caches in there. Check the geocaching.com map.

 

It's a huge park!

[Team Misguided]

PARK MEETING

 

A meeting to discuss off-trail hazards at the county's Cougar Mountain Regional Wildland Park will be held from 7-9 p.m. Tuesday at the Lewis Creek Visitors Center, 5808 Lakemont Blvd., Bellevue.

 

This sounds like an opportunity to me. The WSGA should get some people to go to this meeting and offer to help. Working with park staff geocachers could help map the locations of the mines so they can be avoided.

[+The Jester]

Hey, thanks for the link. I'll be there to hear what they have to say.

 

Looking at S&T and the Park map, S&T doesn't know what it's talking about. The park does extend farther East then shown. I count 14 active caches in the Park, with one other I believe is just outside the park.

 

Re-edit: Upon closer looking, 4 of the caches I was looking at are in Coal Creek Park, and I'd missed one in CMRP. So there are 11 within the Park, one just outside, and four West of the Park in Coal Creek Park.

Edited January 30, 2006 by The Jester

[+WeightMan]

S&T not knowing what is going on is not news. That is why I put the disclaimer in. I figured that the park went further east than it does. S&T does not even show the summit of the mountain as in the park. I will make an attempt to be at the meeting, but I'm not sure if I can pull it off.

[Moun10Bike]

Here's a quick map of Cougar Mountain using a Green Trails map overlaid with known cache locations:

 

 

From this, I see 13 caches shown within the park boundaries (2 of which are across Highway 900 and thus thought of as more Squak Mountain caches) and several others just outside the boundaries.

[+Right Wing Wacko]

PARK MEETING

 

A meeting to discuss off-trail hazards at the county's Cougar Mountain Regional Wildland Park will be held from 7-9 p.m. Tuesday at the Lewis Creek Visitors Center, 5808 Lakemont Blvd., Bellevue.

 

This sounds like an opportunity to me. The WSGA should get some people to go to this meeting and offer to help. Working with park staff geocachers could help map the locations of the mines so they can be avoided.

I agree, but with less than 24 hours notice thats going to be difficult!

 

At least it's after hours and not during working hours. I'm not a good public speaker, but I'm going to try to be there. I would love to see some of those involved when we negotiated with the State Parks there. I'm sure they could have some good input.

Edited January 31, 2006 by Right Wing Wacko

[+Wienerdog]

Lucy at the mine on Cougar Mountain.

 

The mine.

 

I think it was my 300th find. Gosh how time flies! My friend Lucy, of the LucyandRickie fame was with me that day.

 

We did toss a few rocks down the mine. We never heard where they landed!

 

All the caches up there seem to be straightforward. We never had to cross-country or bushwack. I don't know about the new ones that have come out. But my guess is they would be right off the path. A typical geocache hide!

 

Are there reports of a cacher trying to make a straight shot to the cache and running into a mine? I'm guessing it is all hyped up! And with the thousands of other people that hike that area on a regular basis, you would think they would have all the mines covered with the grates that Lucy and I found. I think they need to take some responsibility here!

 

Ms. WD

Edited January 31, 2006 by Wienerdog

[+The Jester]

As I used to ramble thru this area as a young man (long before it was a park), I can say that not all openings were planned. We found many sinkholes that broke into the shafts. As the article said many have been marked/closed, but others may exist that they don't know about. And being that the tunnels are still there, new holes can develop at any time. So they are taking responsibility and warning people of the dangers of off trail travel.

[+hydnsek]

Someone posted a note on the cache I have in the park, warning people about the mine dangers and linking to this article. Geez. My cache is just a few feet off a main trail....i think that was a bit uncalled for.

Edited January 31, 2006 by hydnsek

[+AndrewRJ]

I will make every effort to be there.

[+Right Wing Wacko]

Darn it... I was unable to make it with this short notice. No way to be at the meeting from 7 to 9 and also be in Marysville at 8

 

I hope those that do go will give us a complete report!

[+AndrewRJ]

I attended the meeting as planned. The meeting was fairly to the point and also in attendance were The Jester, The Blooming Idiot and Marcus Arelius.

 

The meeting was a public information meeting relating to mine hazards in Cougar Mountain Regional Wildlife Park. The general information involved the message to please stay on the trails.

 

The relevant dangers of off trail traffic included sinkholes that can fill with toxic gasses such as carbon dioxide and unknown mine shafts that you could fall into due to heavy growth along the edges and being unable to see them until you step into the opening. The park caps approximately 2 to 3 new mine openings every year as the old caps, which usually consisted of woody debris, collapse into the mine shafts. The reason that geocaching was mentioned, as well as orienteering and letterboxing was the increased likelihood of our groups having a reason to leave the trails in higher risk areas.

 

While at the meeting I spoke with Niki McBride who is the facilities manager at the park. She demonstrated a working knowledge of Geocaching, and is aware of the caches in the park and checks the web site to see if new caches have recently been published. She was happy to hear that the caches I knew about were all near established trails and would continue to encourage the placement of caches in the park. She really thinks geocaching is a great use of the park system!

 

The only request that was made is that we keep our caches within approximately 20 feet from the trail. This is not a requirement but a request for our safety.

 

Overall it was a very informative and interesting meeting.

Edited February 1, 2006 by andrewrj

[+The Jester]

Just got back from the meeting. Several interesting things came out. It wasn't just about geocaching - that's just one activity that could be cause for concern. The main thrust was that off-trail travel - in this park only - can be very dangerous and should not be done. While they have sealed all known opening, one to three new ones open each year. There are a total of 2 dozen in the park at this time. What is happening is the old way of closing a shaft was to stick a large tree/stump in it and cover it with dirt. Well, 60+ years later these are rotting out and collapsing, making new dangers. The opening may be fairly small and are hard to see in the foliage, often they've been found by stepping into it unexpectedly.

 

The other item of note, there is a coal seam fire that has been burning for quite a number of years. They've just done a survey to find out the extent of the fire. There is one vent (along Cave Hole Trail) that is now fenced and signed (on cool days you can see steam venting). There is a large area (away from trails) that is the real hot spot (it's also fenced and signed). A kiosk at Red Town TH is being put up with info. One of the dangers of this, is that as the fire burns out the coal, the ground above it can collapse into it, there can be a thin, fragile layer that you can break thru.

 

The park officials are very open to geocaching and have no problems with caches being placed in the park (or any other county park), just so long as they are trailside (within a few, very few feet).

 

So, enjoy the park. Find neat places for caches. Just stay on the trails.

 

Edited to add: The 'danger' area is the central part of the park (C? trails). That's where the coal seam lie. The Far Country/Long View Peak area (S? trails) are away from the coal mining area.

Edited February 1, 2006 by The Jester

[+The Jester]

Someone posted a note on the cache I have in the park, warning people about the mine dangers and linking to this article. Geez. My cache is just a few feet off a main trail....i think that was a bit uncalled for.

Yeah, I got one too. That's what you get when the whole society "sells fear"! I just added a note to mine saying there was no danger with my cache. If it bothers you too much, delete it.

[Team Misguided]

Great news guys. I was pretty sure from the tone of the initial news report that the parks staff were not out to ban geocaching. It's nice to know that they are so open to us placing caches.

[+WeightMan]

Sorry I couldn't make it, but it sounds like we were in good hands and things were not as dismal as we might have thought.

 

Sounds like good news for us.

[+Wienerdog]

Thanks for those of you who found the time to attend. Much appreciated!

[+Prying Pandora]

I am glad that we had some good people representing the caching community at the meeting. They covered this story on the TV news tonight, and the focus on geocaching mostly had to do with their fear that we'd be so focused on our GPSrs that we'd accidentally step into a hole. It reminded me of one of the new Groundspeak t-shirts:

 

[+Kiersolvd]

Here's the article in the King County Journal this morning. Nothing new that our attendees didn't say in their reports above.

 

Official says toxic gases and high temperatures are dangerous to recreationists (02-01-2006) The Industrial Revolution is colliding with the Information Age in the forests south of Bellevue.

Edited February 1, 2006 by Kiersolvd

[+evergreenhiker!]

Wow. Didn't realize the extent of mines up there. Interesting stuff mentioned. I'd never guessed an old mine shaft woudl be covered by an old stump. How'd did this coal seam fire happen? Anybody say?

[MarcusArelius]

Wow. Didn't realize the extent of mines up there. Interesting stuff mentioned. I'd never guessed an old mine shaft woudl be covered by an old stump. How'd did this coal seam fire happen? Anybody say?

They are not sure how the current fire started or how long it's been burning. Although they assume this one has been burning for several years, if not decades.

 

They can start by spontaneous combustion, lighting strikes, and forest fires to name a few.

 

Another thing they mentioned is if you fall into a mine fire you will be severly burned if not killed outright.

 

And if you fall, or climb, into any shaft the local EMS will not go after you unless they can see you. Mine rescue reponse comes from California or BC where they have active mining going on.

Edited February 1, 2006 by MarcusArelius

[+TotemLake]

Good informtion! Thanks!

[+Recdiver]

Wow. Didn't realize the extent of mines up there. Interesting stuff mentioned. I'd never guessed an old mine shaft woudl be covered by an old stump. How'd did this coal seam fire happen? Anybody say?

Kinda makes ya want to approach that next geo-stump a little more cautiously don't it?

[MarcusArelius]

Wow. Didn't realize the extent of mines up there. Interesting stuff mentioned. I'd never guessed an old mine shaft woudl be covered by an old stump. How'd did this coal seam fire happen? Anybody say?

Kinda makes ya want to approach that next geo-stump a little more cautiously don't it?

When the area was rural, and seldom visited, the miners didn't have much reason to use concrete like they do today. They just used the available material, dirt and trees, stumps, and old cars.

 

If they used a stump, or tree, it would be placed into the shaft to hold back the dirt fill placed on top of it. You would not come upon a stump sitting on top of a shaft, all you would see is the dirt.

 

The problem is stumps and trees rot, and cars rust, so the plug goes away in 50 years or so and the dirt placed on top starts falling into the shaft.

 

So the dangerous areas are where you see the depressions caused by the dirt underneath falling away. If it gets bad enough a hole will open up. That's when the Office of Surface Mining (OSM) comes in with they heavy equipment and concrete trucks (if they have budget).

[+Wienerdog]

Wow. Didn't realize the extent of mines up there. Interesting stuff mentioned. I'd never guessed an old mine shaft woudl be covered by an old stump. How'd did this coal seam fire happen? Anybody say?

Kinda makes ya want to approach that next geo-stump a little more cautiously don't it?

When the area was rural, and seldom visited, the miners didn't have much reason to use concrete like they do today. They just used the available material, dirt and trees, stumps, and old cars.

 

If they used a stump, or tree, it would be placed into the shaft to hold back the dirt fill placed on top of it. You would not come upon a stump sitting on top of a shaft, all you would see is the dirt.

 

The problem is stumps and trees rot, and cars rust, so the plug goes away in 50 years or so and the dirt placed on top starts falling into the shaft.

 

So the dangerous areas are where you see the depressions caused by the dirt underneath falling away. If it gets bad enough a hole will open up. That's when the Office of Surface Mining (OSM) comes in with they heavy equipment and concrete trucks (if they have budget).

Very interesting Mark. Thanks for the insight!

Edited February 3, 2006 by Wienerdog

[+Wienerdog]

I am glad that we had some good people representing the caching community at the meeting.  They covered this story on the TV news tonight, and the focus on geocaching mostly had to do with their fear that we'd be so focused on our GPSrs that we'd accidentally step into a hole.  It reminded me of one of the new Groundspeak t-shirts:

 

Who is the person in this picture? I have not yet met him.

Edited February 3, 2006 by Wienerdog

[+Prying Pandora]

Who is the person in this picture? I have not yet met him.

I don't know who he is - that photo is from the Groundspeak website. If the glamourous backdrop is anything to go by, it looks like a Groundspeak employee that stepped out the back door of the office among the blackberries to model the shirt.

[MarcusArelius]

Who is the person in this picture?  I have not yet met him.

I don't know who he is - that photo is from the Groundspeak website. If the glamourous backdrop is anything to go by, it looks like a Groundspeak employee that stepped out the back door of the office among the blackberries to model the shirt.

If I were the guessing type I'd go with Elias.

[Team Misguided]

If I were the guessing type I'd go with Elias.

Good thing you are not the guessing type.