How To Address Bogus Finds

January 30, 2006

A coworker of mine also caches locally, and was bragging about all of his finds, he's so great, blah blah blah. Looking at logs on the GC website , he keeps claiming finds just prior to me and says the usual "TNLN SL". SL my #$$!!!!! Found 4 just today that says he was the last finder on the website, but what is this? No SL?!? He is obviously claiming bogus finds, and it is infuriating.

I have only been caching for 3 weeks and am close to a hundred legit finds...thank goodness the Mrs. also has the bug now and helps me out on night runs during the week I have also been schooled by some local GC wizards I met on the trail who have taken me geo-caravanning...big number days indeed. I have fought hard for my finds, and it seems silly that someone keeps claiming finds that they weren't even near at all or couldn't locate.

Should I just ignore it, or call him out? Thoughts?

January 30, 2006

Your finds are ligit, his are not. Let it go with the knowlge (SIC?) that you have earned your nights sleep. If hes just number hunting, he's the one who has to live with the lie just to boost his ego. just enjoy caching and ignore the idiot.

1.5k · January 30, 2006

Ignore it...if you've already noticed, others will too, and know what kind of guy he is. There's no prize for most finds, so he's only cheating himself....no biggie in the grand scheme.

January 30, 2006

good luck with this type of problem. when i first began to read the forums, the sentiment seemed to be that maintaining a level playing field would always be possible due to simple peer pressure. more often, however, when people bring up such problems they are told to mind their own business, just go out a cache, why care, don't be cache police, etc. their motives are questioned, and they often get little guidance and big attitude.

you'll have to decide for yourself how important this is to you, and if the phony logs are genuinely creating a problem, by indicating that all is well with caches that might be missing or disabled. it would irritate me if i had to hear it at work all day, and that's the big problem for you. it would be hard to ignore it if you have it flapping in your face constantly. the only glimmer of light i can see is that he will hopefully tire of this game, as these disingenuous types often do, and abandon it for the next thing. then you can get to caching and working in peace.

Edited January 30, 2006 by denali7

January 30, 2006

I have hidden more than 300 caches. If I spent my time scrutinizing and deleting the "questionable" logs I come across every so often, I'd have no time to conceive and place new caches to entertain the cachers who follow "spirit of the hunt." It's perfectly okay to ignore those who do not follow said "spirit."

As a previous poster has stated, if you've noticed this faux pas, so have other local cachers. Enjoy the game on your own terms, and leave others to their own devices.

Edited January 30, 2006 by Chance Encounter

January 30, 2006

Now you know something about this co-worker that can be useful to you; namely, you can not trust anything he says. And don't share any of your good ideas with him, he probably will go to the boss claiming he thought it up.

2.2k · January 30, 2006

like has been said you now have knowledge of this bloke.

plus why not have a public conversation with him about how great such and such cache was, what lovely views and so on

give him enough rope to hang himself to see how far he will go when he knows that you've logged it and his log wasn't there. no need to confront him as you will both know the truth. he is the loser not the rest of us. :rolleyes:

January 30, 2006

Since he is flapping about it at work so much, I would probably sent a nice email to the cache owners giving them a heads up. I don't care if people think I'm putting my nose where it doesn't belong. That crap would get old. As a cache owner I would appriciate it. Then again, I only have two caches and have time to make sure they are as accurate as I reasonably can.

January 30, 2006

like has been said you now have knowledge of this bloke.

plus why not have a public conversation with him about how great such and such cache was, what lovely views and so on

give him enough rope to hang himself to see how far he will go when he knows that you've logged it and his log wasn't there. no need to confront him as you will both know the truth. he is the loser not the rest of us.

I would probably ask confront him but that's the kind of guy that I am. I do think that Nobby Nobbs approach is pretty good though.

January 30, 2006

If he is doing this, he will probably lose interest in geocaching very quickly anyway. Give it a month or two and he will probably not be talking about his "finds" any more.

It's just not that interesting to talk about "fake" finds. Trust me--this guy will simply disappear from geocaching soon no matter what you do.

5.8k · January 30, 2006

I try not to worry myself with how anyone else plays the game. I find it much more enjoyable just to play my own way. Good luck.

5.3k · January 30, 2006

Just tell him you do real geocaching instead of Zen Geocaching.

If he was one of my cooworkers I would tell him he is full of s***

January 30, 2006

A coworker of mine also caches locally, and was bragging about all of his finds, he's so great, blah blah blah. Looking at logs on the GC website , he keeps claiming finds just prior to me and says the usual "TNLN SL". SL my #$$!!!!! Found 4 just today that says he was the last finder on the website, but what is this? No SL?!? He is obviously claiming bogus finds, and it is infuriating.

Wow, that's an awful lot of anger over a silly little hobby.

January 30, 2006

Since you know him, call him out, then punch him out.

:rolleyes:

Kidding, of course.

January 30, 2006

yup....hammer'im

20.7k · January 30, 2006

If he's done it on one of your caches, mention it to him. Delete the log if you don't like his answer. Be prepared for the consequences of this deletion.

If he's done this on caches owned by any of your friends, drop them an email.

2.1k · January 30, 2006

Don't know for sure what I'd do. Probably nothing.

I might mention to him in passing that you never saw his signature in such and such a book, maybe make it out all innocent, like 'are you sure you got the right cache, as I was at that one right after you and...'

Sometimes the most incidious looking things have simple explanations (I not saying he isn't 'cheating', but you never know. Maybe he just doesn't know how to log them online properly.)

1.4k · January 30, 2006

Now you know something about this co-worker that can be useful to you; namely, you can not trust anything he says. And don't share any of your good ideas with him, he probably will go to the boss claiming he thought it up.

This seems like a pragmatic approach. You can try to be even more pragmatic by distancing yourself from this boaster - your time is more valuable than wasting time listening to his lies. :mad:

Of course, what you do depends on how corrupt this guy is, whether there is any benefit in trying to correct irrepairable behavior. Definitely want to avoid possible escalation that might ultimately hurt you.

2.1k · January 30, 2006

Dig a pit trap and cover it with sticks and leaves after lining the bottom with sharpened stakes
post the coordinates in a new cache that you list on gc.com as a micro
brag about your new cache to the guy in your office, saying that he'll never find it
wait until he posts his bogus online log, and then ask him how he climbed out of the tiger trap after being skewered on punji stakes
bask in the warm glow of his humiliation in the workplace and the caching world at large
send S&R teams to the coordinates of your "cache" to rescue/exhume any seekers who found ground zero before your workmate

If that seems too extreme, you could just let it go...or email the cache owners involved telling them that you think a local geocacher might not have found a cache of theirs that they say they found (even though it's possible you could be wrong, or there could have been a good reason that they couldn't log their find).

I think the chances are that this person, if they are falsely logging, will grow tired of it soon (especially if you ignore them from now on), and walk away from the world of geocaching.

Jamie

24.7k · January 30, 2006

...more often, however, when people bring up such problems they are told to mind their own business, just go out a cache, why care, don't be cache police, etc. their motives are questioned,...
you'll have to decide for yourself how important this is to you, and if the phony logs are genuinely creating a problem, by indicating that all is well with caches that might be missing or disabled....

That depends on the problem.

If someone fakes a find and I'm aware of it I'll delete it. That log in the cache is the most widely accepted proof of find.

Now if you question my integrety in the cache placment that I have chosen. Then heck yeah MYOB.

You nailed one of the other reasons bogus online logs are a bad thing.

Here is an account with bogus finds. :mad:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?ul=neila

6.5k · January 30, 2006

Here is an account with bogus finds.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?ul=neila

Are you sure they are bogus-they do list Area 51 as their home. :mad:

Dealing with bogus finds/logs is the cache owners responsibility and no one else's. I'd ignore the blowhard at work and take the advice already posted to this thread.

January 31, 2006

Nice clean logs in the cache, and some pretty tough boogers that casual cachers would miss easily. Plus, he's claimng 400 odd finds, so ignorance is not the excuse, AND he was brought in by two other serious GC'ers at work.

I take it seriously, and I guess it's just the fact that I despise the need to lie over a game like this. Sad to see the blatant lack of integrity.

I think I'll just ignore the bogus ones and maybe use the zen caching line which was so thoughtfully provided by JohnnyVegas, if he approaches me about it again. I do admit, NFA's option is semi appealing in a lurid little way.

I'll take the high road on this one, as I have cooled off a bit, but I think I WILL ask him for help on another nasty one that he has claimed :mad: . I have spent 2 hours at the site, but haven't asked anyone for help yet. His answer is bound to be amusing and revealing since he claimed it 2 weeks ago :mad:

Thanks for the input, folks, and a chance to vent. Hope to see you on the trail (logging legit finds of course)!!!

January 31, 2006

I'll take the high road on this one, as I have cooled off a bit, but I think I WILL ask him for help on another nasty one that he has claimed . I have spent 2 hours at the site, but haven't asked anyone for help yet. His answer is bound to be amusing and revealing since he claimed it 2 weeks ago :tongue:of course)!!!

Oh oh oh! Can you post about this when you do it? I'd love to hear what he comes up with. Probably something along the lines of "oh no if you get any help then it wouldn't be legit" LOL.

38.2k · January 31, 2006

I try not to worry myself with how anyone else plays the game. I find it much more enjoyable just to play my own way. Good luck.

Until someone logs a fake find on a missing cache on your watch list and you drive 50 miles to find it because "it must be there, someone found it yesterday".

Edited January 31, 2006 by briansnat

January 31, 2006

AND he was brought in by two other serious GC'ers at work.

have you mentioned this to those two?

January 31, 2006

Don't let it get to you. He's cheating no one but himself. No different than cheating in golf - after a while no one will want to play with him and he'll have won the prize of getting to go alone or not at all. I don't understand the numbers game anyway. I haven't been doing this long, but I really like it. But I also have a job 40 hrs a week and a wife and a dog and a house to work on and I like to play golf and I like to ride my motorcycle - my wife and I might make it to 50 if we cache a fair amount this summer... but dadgum. It ain't like there's cash prizes or anything. My experience with people like you describe is that it's never just one thing - they usually fib about lots of stuff so I'm sure that anyone who knows him well takes his boasting of accomplishments with a grain of salt anyway. Don't let it make you bitter.

38.2k · January 31, 2006

Don't let it get to you. He's cheating no one but himself. No different than cheating in golf ...

Actually fake finds are quite different. By logging a find you are essentially telling the geocaching community that the cache was there. That can bring people out to find a cache that is missing and cause them to look longer because it was "found" recently.

Also, as many cache owners use logs to determine if the cache needs maintenace, it could cause the owner to delay a needed maintenance visit.

Look it at as more like cheating at poker. You are screwing other people and that is not nice.

38.2k · January 31, 2006

Don't let it get to you. He's cheating no one but himself. No different than cheating in golf ...

Actually fake finds are quite different. By logging a find you are essentially telling the geocaching community that the cache was there. That can bring people out to find a cache that is missing and cause them to look longer because it was "found" recently.

Also, as many cache owners use logs to determine if the cache needs maintenace, it could cause the owner to delay a needed maintenance visit.

Look it at as more like cheating at poker. You are screwing other people and that is not nice.

To explain this a little better...

You have a really cool looking cache on your watchlist, but there are a few consecutive DNFs. Because the cache is an hour drive, you hold off because you think it might be missing. Then LiarCacher comes along and logs a find, so you hop in the car and make the drive there. You search for an hour, then add another half hour because "it must be here, LiarCacher found it yesterday". Turns out the cache was really missing and you wasted all that time.

or

You're a cache owner and you get two DNFs on a cache. Because of that you make plans to check up on it. Then CCLiar comes along and logs a "found it". Her found it log tells you the cache is there, so you put off your maintenance trip.

Far fetched? Nope, it happens more frequently than you realize.

Edited January 31, 2006 by briansnat

January 31, 2006

Hey --- cheating is nothing new---even in "Geocaching' not just 'Enron''

I had one guy submit a web-cam picture of himself and his canine friend sitting in his living room. (He also had logs within a couple of days before and after) in his home state ..thousands of miles from 'Hawai'i'.

Of course, his post was deleted immediately. <_<

January 31, 2006

after a while no one will want to play with him and he'll have won the prize of getting to go alone or not at all

The funny thing is in Geocaching it doesn’t work that way. The people with the high find counts receive the admiration and loyalty of the community even if they are known to cheat.

This is an example of a high number cacher, who logged a find for a DNF, placed a cache there and logged a find for the one she placed. So this cacher got two smileys for a DNF! The cache owner was tickled to death about it judging by the statement in the new cache's description.

A DNF

December 5, 2005 by xxxx (13252 found)
I'm not saying it isn't there because it was snowing and in light of the DNF's I didn't give this my best. I did manage to make it home safe and ahead of the snow. I sure do miss that fall weather. Guess winter is here officially

.

She replaced missing cache and logged a find,

January 3 by xxxxx (13252 found)
Had a PQ from the previous visit and came prepared to replace per owner's previous email. This time it is 'well guarded' by the hint

Cache owner's statement on new cache page for what is now a micro.

"When xxxxx can't find xxxx, you KNOW it's time to archive it... but she left a new micro for all to find!"

Cacher now logs the new one that she had placed

January 24 by xxx (13252 found)
This cache has the distinction of being the last one that I found in my old (2000) Jeep Grand Cherokee and nearly the last one in my life.

Edited to add this is all from the one visit on Jan 3rd, not several visits to the cache site.

Edited January 31, 2006 by Geo Froggy

January 31, 2006

Why not just call BS to his face the next time he brags about it? If it were me, I couldn't care less about him logging false finds to make himself feel better, but I couldn't abide working around someone talking smack all the time. In the first place it'd be annoying, and more importantly, is that a relationship that's safe at work? I don't know what you do, maybe it is in your case. I couldn't tolerate any deception though; we'd have to straighten that stuff out right quick.

Why not just call him on it? If nothing else it'll shut him up.

January 31, 2006

hammer'im

38.2k · January 31, 2006

Why not just call BS to his face the next time he brags about it?

I beg your pardon.

January 31, 2006

Bragman, "I have found seven-hundred-thousand caches in one weekend!"

You, "How cool, any that I have found?"

Bragman, "Well, just yesterday I got one of those out by the golf course..."

You, "Neat! I will have to find your log and see what you wrote. I really like reading people's comments. You DO log them at the cache don't you? Because if you don't, your online post may get deleted."

Bragman, "Hem, haw, stammer..."

You, "I thought so!"

There are MANY ways to catch him up in his fantasy world. Pick some of the ones he has supposedly found, find them yourself. Mention to him that unless he really signs the log in the cache, he isn't legit.

(BS stands for "Big-Stupid"...?)

2.7k · January 31, 2006

I came across one of those cheat for your smileys last November. When I received a log from one of my more difficult caches in the hills, I was curious because the finder only logged one word. And I thought this was weird I usually get some nice long logs after they hike all the way up that hill.

So I looked at his profile to see what was going on. Lo and behold I found out that he found about 6 more caches scattered all over CO, and 1 in Wyoming all in one day. And that is not counting my cache which requires most of the day on the mtn. So I just simply deleted his find because I know that it would be impossible to do all that in one day.

2.6k · January 31, 2006

Irritation with cheaters is a commendable instinct. I probably couldn't resist injecting something like, "and yet I've never seen your name in a log book" into his next bragging session. Asking him what he thought of an unusual hide or container without mentioning what it is might be fun, too.

January 31, 2006

I saw a log not too long ago that said something to the effect of, "I searched for this cache for 5 minutes. It's a 1 star difficulty, so if I couldn't find it, it must not be there, so I'm logging this as a find."

If you didn't find it, it's not a find!!!

It sometimes angers me when people do this, but hey...we're not getting paid to geocache. If we were, then I might make more of a stink about it.

1.4k · January 31, 2006

I saw a log not too long ago that said something to the effect of, "I searched for this cache for 5 minutes. It's a 1 star difficulty, so if I couldn't find it, it must not be there, so I'm logging this as a find."

If you didn't find it, it's not a find!!!

It sometimes angers me when people do this, but hey...we're not getting paid to geocache. If we were, then I might make more of a stink about it.

It's interesting when people risk their own integrity when the stakes are so small. It's no surprise the "cheating" becomes more sophisticated when the $stakes$ are much bigger. Not sure if getting paid or not makes a difference. :grin:

When people are unable to stop behaviors like this, rules and laws (or software changes) are proposed and implemented to prevent further abuse. More overhead, less freedom, and I don't think this is limited to Geocaching. :grin:

January 31, 2006

You don't work in a post office, do you? :grin:

Seriously, catch him in a lie, let him stammer a bit, and move on. If there are other geocachers around when you do this, all the better. In the grand scheme of things, there are bigger worries to be had, but that being said, it's always fun to expose an unethical braggart for what he really is.

Edited January 31, 2006 by Metaphor

January 31, 2006

i have to say, i'm pleasantly surprised at the direction this discussion has taken. sometimes it DOES matter and DOES affect other cachers if someone cheats in this game.

February 1, 2006

I say beat him to a bloody pulp leaving him wimpering " I'll never lie again" Naaaaaa, I would just say somthing like, I hope one day to log as many finds as you have, you are the greatest GC'er I've ever met. And then beat him to a bloody pulp.

IT'S JUST A GAME!!!!!

Ignore ignorance

February 1, 2006

at lowsky. good chuckle to start my workday!

1.8k · February 1, 2006

Hey --- cheating is nothing new---even in "Geocaching' not just 'Enron''

So sad, so true...once out on our thru hike of the Appalachian Trail we staggered into a shelter site, filthy, scratched to bits by the overgrown briars in the trail and found a older couple already there. We introduced ourselves and asked sometime into the conversation how far they had been hiking on the trail. These folks were clean, clean, clean, no wear on their clothes, their backpacks were new looking and they were unmarked by briar or thorn. They replied they had started from GA and were thru hiking. Oh. At one point, another thru hiker were knew mentioned them (they had loooong ago gone 'way ahead) and said they were hiking 50+ mile days. Oh.

February 1, 2006

...more often, however, when people bring up such problems they are told to mind their own business, just go out a cache, why care, don't be cache police, etc. their motives are questioned,...
you'll have to decide for yourself how important this is to you, and if the phony logs are genuinely creating a problem, by indicating that all is well with caches that might be missing or disabled....

That depends on the problem.

If someone fakes a find and I'm aware of it I'll delete it. That log in the cache is the most widely accepted proof of find.

Now if you question my integrety in the cache placment that I have chosen. Then heck yeah MYOB.

You nailed one of the other reasons bogus online logs are a bad thing.

Here is an account with bogus finds.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?ul=neila

Huh, I'm surprised they didn't log my Alien Artifact cache

1.1k · February 1, 2006

Visit my log on GCT03J and you will see how I deal with it. This was a high school kid who claimed finds in two different states (Nevada and Hawaii) on the same day. He then posted a note on my event cache in Alabama. I caught him in his tracks and understand he is banned now.

February 1, 2006

Was this a set-up cache???

It takes all kinds- but eventually they get found out :huh:

See my previous posting below ...

Jake39 Posted: Jan 30 2006, 11:30 P M
Hey --- cheating is nothing new---even in "Geocaching' not just 'Enron''

I had one guy submit a web-cam picture of himself and his canine friend sitting in his living room. (He also had logs within a couple of days before and after) in his home state ..thousands of miles from 'Hawai'i'.

Of course, his post was deleted immediately

....I did mail him and asked him to explain the inconsistancy.

February 2, 2006

You don't work in a post office, do you?

Seriously, catch him in a lie, let him stammer a bit, and move on. If there are other geocachers around when you do this, all the better. In the grand scheme of things, there are bigger worries to be had, but that being said, it's always fun to expose an unethical braggart for what he really is.

Nope...the exceedingly dull tech side of high finance. I had my shot yesterday, but let it go...believe me, I chewed a hole in my tongue.

Liars and braggarts are a fact of life, but the joke's up when you drive an hour to a cache because it was found successfully yesterday after 5 successive DNFs, and guess what? IT WAS MUGGLED MONTHS AGO!

I guess that's just another facet of it all...wasting tons of other people's money/time and causing even more lovely auto exhaust fumes for us all to breathe in because one ^%$ couldna be honest.

Thanks again for all of the input, folks, I guess it was a topic worth discussing, and I have a feeling I wasn't too wrong for being so burned up by it. see you on the trail!

How To Address Bogus Finds

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