+tannerz05 Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 OK.. I have a few quesitions, as I am new here, and can't search, and have looked over a couple of dozen pages... I have a few coin designs that I want to get produced. The first design coin I want to be used, tracked, moved, cached, and not really traded all that much... Is that a lost cause? Do I make several thousand to flood the trade market, and make them cheap, no color, single side so they move? The traders can keep one, and buy a few extra for actually caching them??? Any advice is welcome... and yes, I do have many TB's on the way for that as well, but I think coins are much more fun than TB's... and would like to help get others thinking the same way... Bill Quote Link to comment
SCP-173 Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I was going to say it's a lost cause, but you made some interesting suggestions. I've never heard of a single sided coin before. That would bring the cost down, and if you made it a smaller coin (less than 1.5"), that would make it even cheaper. I guess that would be a good start for creating a cheap coin that would be likely to move. If you have the funds to flood the market that would be another step forward. Quote Link to comment
+WWC-World's Worst Cacher Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 You have raised a great question that I have been pondering. My gut says it would really be cool to make coins that would travel, would have no real collecting value. They actually exist today in the form of USA geocoins. If they were really plain I am not sure why coins instead of travel bugs. At some point they really just become a round travel bug. So far no one seems to have successfully accomplished this task. The cost of manufacturing coins and purchasing numbers for what is designed to be an ulgy /plain coin is a significant risk. I have a design sitting on my computer that was done by someone else with this very purpose in mind. I want to . . . but am not sure I can sell them. I am sure this does not help at all. But my general question to the community is: If the coin is really plain why is it better / more fun to have a coin rather than a tag? Quote Link to comment
+tannerz05 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 (edited) I like the idea of a self contained unique item/tag, and not having to TB tag an item... 5 or 6 coins in my pocket are easier to move along than 5 or 6 TB, with associated swag attached in tow.. I also REALLY like the smaller coin concept, but have yet to find a maker below the 1" range.. I would love to put together a .5 or even .25 coin.. you would need a magnifying glass to track it, but it would make all these micro's viable spots... another idea is a coin set.. "one for trackin" and "one for tradin" Most traders I have read from/about don't like to keep coins meant for travel.. The trade coin would be 2 sided 4 color Gold, the track coin would be one sided, no color, silver. Some system in place that you get the trade coin when you place the track coin, and it gets moved by someone... Edited January 27, 2006 by tannerz05 Quote Link to comment
+WWC-World's Worst Cacher Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I like the idea of a self contained unique item/tag, and not having to TB tag an item... 5 or 6 coins in my pocket are easier to move along than 5 or 6 TB, with associated swag attached in tow.. I also REALLY like the smaller coin concept, but have yet to find a maker below the 1" range.. I would love to put together a .5 or even .25 coin.. you would need a magnifying glass to track it, but it would make all these micro's viable spots... actually a tiny trackable is a great idea. I am going to go to work on that. Something that could go in micros. Cool idea.. ... can I use that idea? Quote Link to comment
+tannerz05 Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 southbayday... please, by all means.. when you find a maker let me know, I would love to make a few myself... Quote Link to comment
Not So Lost Puppies Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 OK.. I have a few quesitions, as I am new here, and can't search, and have looked over a couple of dozen pages... I have a few coin designs that I want to get produced. The first design coin I want to be used, tracked, moved, cached, and not really traded all that much... Is that a lost cause? Do I make several thousand to flood the trade market, and make them cheap, no color, single side so they move? The traders can keep one, and buy a few extra for actually caching them??? Any advice is welcome... and yes, I do have many TB's on the way for that as well, but I think coins are much more fun than TB's... and would like to help get others thinking the same way... Bill The "World Travel coin" that should still on the first thread page is one of those coins. There is also at least one more that is heading for production. I designed them for the same reasons you said.. to get them travelling, have little to no collection trade value, etc. True they basically are self contained TBs of course with the added benefit of them having a unique icon. I also see nothing wrong with an alternative to the existing TBs, why not attach a coin to an item if you want and use it in the same manner as a TB? isn't that what LFD's travelling coin set is? Variety is the spice of life Bring on the non collectible coins Quote Link to comment
Not So Lost Puppies Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Coins and Pins is releasing a micro coin very soon... the size of a nickel. That is also the same size as the Tennesse micro that was just made as well. No they aren't 1/2 or 1/4 inch but I'm not sure if that would be too small? go ahead and take a peice of cardboard and cut a 1/2 circle. Now imagine how easily you will ever find that in your cache bag? Quote Link to comment
+Chaos A.D./aka Arlsdaddy Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 <snip>But my general question to the community is: If the coin is really plain why is it better / more fun to have a coin rather than a tag? 1> Even a really nice coin can be cheaper to produce in quanities than the price of a Travel Tag 2> As "NSLP" stated, you can attatch a coin to anything you want to travel if you like. 3> This gives the oppurtunity to tag or not to tag (That is the question, hee hee!) Plus IMO a coin is just plain neater, one side or two. Quote Link to comment
+Lemon Fresh Dog Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) I think the key is continous production (batches of 1000?) I estimate commonality at 15000 or so. Eventually, they will be so common that moving them will be just as attractive as keeping or trading them. Also, make sure the ordering website is on the coin itself -- that will make auction sites a way to advertise the sale! Also, anyone seeing the coin knows how and where to buy it. Edited January 28, 2006 by Lemon Fresh Dog Quote Link to comment
+WWC-World's Worst Cacher Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I think the key is continous production (batches of 1000?) I estimate commonality at 15000 or so. Eventually, they will be so common that moving them will be just as attractive as keeping or trading them. Also, make sure the ordering website is on the coin itself -- that will make auction sites a way to advertise the sale! Also, anyone seeing the coin knows how and where to buy it. 15000 . . . a lot of cache to Groundspeak. But I think I like the idea of doing a micro like that. Production costs will be low. I just think I might try 1,000. Probably need to sell them in bunches of 4 or 5. Quote Link to comment
+Lemon Fresh Dog Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I wouldn't do 15000 at once, but in batches of 500-1000 as demand dictates would eventually see a slowdown as folks would buy what they wanted and cache some etc. Few folks steal Travel Bug tags -- some will steal the Travel Bug!, but not for the tag. Why? It's just as easy to buy one. As for cash to Groundspeak? I'm okay with that -- why not? I have not problem with the folks that run this site making money from it. Hey -- I've paid more for 4 hours of golf than a year of caching! Quote Link to comment
+graylling Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hey -- I've paid more for 4 hours of golf than a year of caching! How about a round when the courses open again? Or why not some winter golf. We could pull it off right now. I'll meet you at Shaganappi first thing sunday morning. Quote Link to comment
+blackjack65 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Too keep the cost down, and the size small, how about using a penny? In Canada, messing up money is illegal, but in the US of A, we see those machines that deform pennies and engrave a tourist site image all over the place. Surely those machines are available somewhere. Then it just a matter of changing the engraving part, and of course, unlocking the box that keep the quarter. As far as engraving a number on it, there are machines for that as well. Just a tought,.. Quote Link to comment
+nielsenc Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Marky had custom engraved pennys as well as others. You could go to Chuck_E_Cheese and get 25 cent tokens all day long, I dont think Groundspeak will approve the design for trackable. I was reading last night the US Mint is going to come out with a New $1.00 series. The Federal Reserve will make an 80% profit. The US Quarters raked in over 4 Billion US$!! http://coincollector.org/archives/003034.html But yes, that is the nice thing about any 'mass' produced coin, it is more likely to be found in the wild. My six month old USA Geocoin is still running around the country. I forsee more coins coming out which will end up in caches. nielsenc Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I have a few coin designs that I want to get produced. The first design coin I want to be used, tracked, moved, cached, and not really traded all that much... Is that a lost cause? Do I make several thousand to flood the trade market, and make them cheap, no color, single side so they move? The traders can keep one, and buy a few extra for actually caching them??? In some ways its a lost cause because once it leaves your possession you can't control what it does. But I agree with Lemon Fresh Dog, if you want to get the coin into caches you need to make lots of them. Not nessecery to 'flood' the market, just keep making new batchs everytime the old one runs out so whenever people want them they can get them. Some will still buy them for collections, and some will still steal because they can't resist taking things that aren't bolted down. But those that buy them thinking they'll be powerful trading assests, or to scalp on ebay for $30, probaby won't since it will be easy for anyone that wants one to get one (sorta like the USA geocoins). (Getting off topic, but I've sometimes wondered if coins would sell differently if was annouced up front that beyound the intial order say 400 extra would be minted. And that those extra would be sold on ebay at 'cost' for 6 months after the sale. That way its clear 'this coin will not have much resale / retrade value unless you keep for a long time'. ) Quote Link to comment
+nfa Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) This is not about a sale, these coins were already sold and are moving through caches... these wooden and trackable geocoins were sold at $0.25 apiece, including shipping wooden geocoins are certainly a cheap way to make coins that can travel through geocaches... jamie Edited January 28, 2006 by NFA Quote Link to comment
+Lemon Fresh Dog Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 My thought is that Groundspeak is the "premium" brand when it comes to trackables. For example, how many times have we seen folks here asking how to log a Canada coin (which are readily bought). So, what we still lack as a communuty is: 1) Metal Geocoin 2) Trackable on this site 3) Available in any quantity at anytime to anyone I think we are ready for a coin such as this now. Why? 1) Geocoin collecting and hobby acceptance is high 2) Folks are anxious to cache coins (there is a sub-group doing this) 3) People are accepting the fact that coins can and will be sold at profit - people will pay $6.50-$9.50 for a coin that hasn't even been minted! How will this play out? I see two scenarios: 1) A generic, Groundspeak approved and created coin. They can obviously gain a wider profit margin at a lower production cost as the tracking numbers would not cost them that much to produce. The magic of selling information services -- low production cost compared to physical goods -- not that a bottle of Coke is that expensive to produce either. 2) Another group (likely a coin producer) creates the coin and strikes a volume deal on the tracking numbers with Groundspeak. The hopefull benefit of the above is that the coins could be sold at wholesale to stores and organizations wishing to use them as a way to promote geocaching. I know of a local store that was interested in my red-handed coins, but as I was sellng them on a cost-recovery basis (which turned out to be a small loss) they would not be able to sell them at a profit. Having the coins created in the way above would be better. So! How about it Groundspeak? Is it time for a Signal the Frog Hopping Travel Coin? I bet you'd sell more of them than the car antennas, hats, shirts, and what-nots. (why isn't there a Groundspeak Nalgene bottle? -- I keep having to re-sticker it every time I wash it in the dishwasher!) This would (in my admittedly limited analysis) be a great profit generator! *(better is you sold just the codes of course, but no one has stepped up to the plate) Quote Link to comment
+nielsenc Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 This would (in my admittedly limited analysis) be a great profit generator! *(better is you sold just the codes of course, but no one has stepped up to the plate) Since Groundspeak has to approve all designs, no one is really able to sell lots of codes. Quote Link to comment
Not So Lost Puppies Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I, with the backing of a maker, have stepped up to the plate... it just hasn't come off the production line yet. The World Travel Coin is specifically designed to be reordered and continuously available (except maybe in between orders if demand is high) I think that the 'china' coin is also being done this way? at least the 'regular' edition. And I am also working on two more coins that I hope will also be unlimited. It certainly would be nice if GC would be nice enough to reduce their tracking number prices, but just imagine the uproar that would cause from everyone who has already paid for theirs? Quote Link to comment
+Lemon Fresh Dog Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Well, it's GroundSpeaks call. I think if someone asked them for a single order of 10,000 codes, they might wholesale (who knows? I haven't asked ) In the end, they would make more by partnering rather than setting a flat fee. Setting price breaks at certain volume levels is pretty good business. That stated -- they definately ARE in a premium-brand position and will have to decide themselves. I personally LOVE their business model! Have someone else create your product (caches), have them input and maintain them, have users pay to access them in creative ways (free for generic, pay for Premium), and then sell travel codes in a ratio where TB's are about 1:1 and coins are 1:60ish? (I mean travel versus dead) When I say I love the model I really mean it -- PLEASE let me know if you ever go IPO guys!!!! Quote Link to comment
+Eric K Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Normally I stay out of these discussions. However I figure I should mention there are the USA Geocoins. Cheap, not limited, trackable, etc... Quote Link to comment
hirlas Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 1) A generic, Groundspeak approved and created coin. They can obviously gain a wider profit margin at a lower production cost as the tracking numbers would not cost them that much to produce. The magic of selling information services -- low production cost compared to physical goods -- not that a bottle of Coke is that expensive to produce either. yeah, they did do this, well, except the coin price went up instead of down, oh well... this thread Quote Link to comment
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