Benchmarks On Military Property

[+Coastiegirl04]

I work at a station that is in the Military and there are at least 3 benchmarks on the Gov't property. All i ask is Please stay off.. i have talked to a couple people already looking for these benchmarks.. All i ask so you don't get in trouble Stay off the Gov't Property, even if it doesn't have fence and a guard house, its still gov't property, and its not safe, lucky for my station i know what they are doing, and i can explain to them nicely, but i know some won't be that nice! And if it is Coast Guard station ITS STILL GOV'T PROPERTY! We are a military base! Just use good judgement! thanks again

 

Coastiegirl04

[ArtMan]

Each military installation is different, but even in areas open to the public, looking for a benchmark could appear to constitute suspicious activity.

 

A number of people have posted stories in these forums of requesting access to and being granted permission (even including an escort, IIRC) on certain installations.

 

A call, letter, email or visit to the facility public affairs or public information office is always a good place to start. Stress the public service aspect of this hobby, e.g. have a printout of the official (NGS, not Geocaching.com) datasheet, explain that the mark in question is a critical part of the national geospacial infrastructure, that the government does not have the resouces to update the database, but you do it as a public service hobby. Be sure to verify the post's policy on photos — probably a blanket prohibition, but with an escort a tight closeup or other non-sensitive view may be permitted. Use common sense. Avoid stupid behavior in these very strange modern times in which we live. Assume you have no rights and that any infraction will allow you limited benchmarking privileges in a small, US-controlled corner of Cuba.

 

-ArtMan-

 

PS - And thanks to Coastiegirl04 and all the other fine folks in the Coast Guard for the great work they do!

Edited January 25, 2006 by ArtMan

[mloser]

I think I was the one you are thinking of who got the escort. My local base, Indiantown Gap, is a PA Air National Guard base, and is pretty low security. There are places where the public is fairly welcome, and I had wondered around it for a bit by myself, without permission, a couple of times. The problem areas were some marks deep within restricted territory--this base has public roads running through it so restricted areas are very well marked. There were a number of marks in those areas I wanted to get to, so when I discovered a fellow classmember of an online mapping class was from the Gap, as we call it, I hit him up for permission to search for the marks. He spent about 3 hours with me, with permission from his commanding officer, and I looked for all the marks in restricted areas (with varying success). I even got to see the bombing range close up, which was an eye opener, as I can often hear the test bombings at my house about 10 miles away.

 

After finishing the really restricted areas I went to the maintenance building and asked for permission to hunt the rest of the marks on the property (at the suggestion of the security staff, btw). The maintenance manager, a scout leader, was familiar with benchmarks, an I got a pass to access the rest of the base. I completed my search of the marks, signed out, and left, happy that I had at least searched for every benchmark at Fort Indiantown Gap.

 

My knowledge of this base led me to ask permission. I have visited the base since I was a kid and was aware that, although an important location for PAANG, it was pretty low security, so I wasn't hesitant in asking permission to search there. My lucky contact with a member of their grounds crew (they actively perserve the wilderness of the base, at least the parts they don't blow up, and maintain the plants with a full time crew) let me go to places I would not have gotten to on my own.

[+Spoo]

I work as a civilian contractor for the military almost anywhere you care to name. I hold a Government security clearance and wear enough ID's, badges and passes on a necklace around my neck to make me walk bent over like an old man. I now have 20 years experience doing this and am well known in the military circuit.

 

TRUST ME. None of it matters. If you aren't were you belong, if you aren't declared, have permission and (usually) escorted, YOU ARE GONNA GET IN TROUBLE! The bases I am on do not even allow me to carry a camera. Even a cell phone with a camera will be confiscated. I have never even asked about a GPSr.

 

Especially since 9-11.

 

Folks......use your heads. If you have an 'IN', like mloser, ok. But if you don't, then be prepared to pay the consequences.

 

I will tell you all. I do not make any effort to recover marks from military property even though I know they are there and I appear to have a perfect opportunity to document one. It is not worth my job.

 

And even if you are exhonerated for your actions, I'll bet it will be long and painful and your name will end up on a list that you do not want it to be.

 

Take Coastiegirls' advice and just stay away.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Ah, Fort Indiantown Gap. That's a very strange place! Where the AT has to leave Blue Mountain, and move over to Stony Mountain, and Peters Mounain. Strange aircraft in dogfights over the trail. I probably wasn't supposed to see them... Made for an interesting backpacking trip from Swatara Gap to Peters Valley.

But, anywho, in my innocence, I found this one: KV7115. On the side of a public road through Picatinny Arsenal.

There are others on military bases that I would not even consider. Like the Coast Guard Station at Sandy Hook.

[mloser]

Yes, two of the marks I looked for there were described as being along the AT, but it has been moved two mountains over. Seeing aircraft in the area is not rare--they are not secretive at all. The other day I was a few miles east of the base and saw trainers (A-10s?) fly over a couple of times.

 

The bombing range is on the south side of Second Mountain and the destruction is quite visible on aerial photos of the area--a bit can be seen in Google Local and all of it in USAPhotomaps. The AT at that point is on Stony Mountain, three ridges north of Blue and two north of Second. KW3073 is one mark previously along the AT that is not on military property that can be recovered by anyone. Well, anyone who wants a 700 foot climb.

[+seventhings]

Although I have hunted marks on several military installations, I agree with Coastiegirl04. I have passed on hundreds of marks because they are on government property. My reluctance to hunt marks on government property is not because I may get into trouble, but because my presence and actions may distract military police and other security personnel from their primary mission of safeguarding the installation and, therefore, safeguarding us.

 

The installations where I've hunted marks are unusual in that they all have areas that are generally open to the public. In one case (in the vicinity of a helipad on a Coast Guard installation, incidentally), I got permission from the senior officer on duty and remained under the observation of control tower personnel while I conducted a 30-minute search for several marks (and found two or three).

 

Of course, I enjoy a bit of legitimacy on military installations in that I carry a military ID (retired USAF) and my truck has a DoD sticker. Without those two pieces of "cover", I would not hunt marks on government property under any circumstance other than when the mark, itself, is a tourist attraction (like an historic lighthouse) and is open to the general public.

 

I join ArtMan in thanking you, Coastiegirl, for your service, and the service of your fellow Coast Guard professionals, to our nation. Bravo zulu.

 

Will

[+fishingdude720]

There was a cache on government property near me

[Photobuff]

Let's see...

 

I have a pointed stick...

 

They have rifles, pistols, cannon, tanks, and nuclear weapons.

 

You do the math!

 

Seriously though- the best people on earth, and I add my thanks!

[Difficult Run]

Nicely put Artman.

 

I wish I had your articulate skills.

 

~ Mitch ~

[kc2ixe]

I get a call from a friend last night who is JUST getting into benchmark hunting. There is a national park that used to be a miltiary base, that still has a small "active" section on it right by his house. He says "I noticed that the recoveries in this area all have the GEOCAC with the intitials CAG - that you?" Had to tell him "yes" - well, it seems he has an "in" with both the commander of the remaining part of the base, PLUS a BIG in with the park rangers for the park section. Guess where we're going hunting in the spring? That base is littered with OLD benchmarks, many/most not recovered in YEARS. The big advantage is we will be able to drive the old paths, instead of having to hump in from the "public" parking lots. I DO have to get a metal detector, as drifting sand (it's on the beachfront) has burried a LOT of the marks over there - sometimes 3-4 feet deep

[+Crystal Sound]

Coastiegirl -

 

After reading this thread, I've had a few thoughts...

 

It's obvious that the "benchmarks on gov't property" issue, and the access of them, is not consistent. Meaning: Some areas are more "open" than others.

 

What does seem obvious to me, is that there is an access issue on your particular base.

 

If you havent done so already, what I suggest you do: Post a note for each of the benchmarks that does reside on your base advising that the mark not be visited by geocachers. Most of the people on GC do not visit the forums, and your message would be most likely "heard" by those who need most to know this info.

 

Having been in the Army dealing with classified information, and in security as both civilian & military, I am aware of the issues with accessing Government property. Personally, I seek proper authorization in any government installation, or I just dont bother with visiting at all. I'm sure most of the "serious" hunters do the same.

[Photobuff]

Maybe this is what you meant, but why don't you recover them by posting a recovery report at the NGS site. The first thing any BM hunter does is pull the data sheet for the mark. If you simply put in a comment like "Mark located in military facility- no non-military access, do not attempt recovery", that should keep everybody informed and away.