For Our New Cachers

1.6k · January 23, 2006

DNF (Did not Find) is the opposite of finding (Found It) a cache. Many cachers refuse to post a DNF on the caches they look for. The problem is, it does not help the cache owners know when there is a problem with their cache. Also, it hurts the community of fellow cachers who attempt to find a cache that may not be there.

Last week I was in Kansas City with my oldest daughter for School interviews. While she was sweating out the interview process, I was happily out caching in the rain and sleet, on my first cache hunt to the area. Of the 12 caches I looked for, I actually found 11 of them, including a D-4 micro! When I got home that night to log my finds, I was tempted (as always) to ignore that one DNF on a 1/1 micro. Instead, I went ahead and logged the did not find, and thanked the owner for placing the cache. Apparently, the next day, another cacher failed to find it and logged a DNF, and that same day the owner disabled her cache for maintenance here.

In this case, we helped not only the owner, who seems to be very responsive, but also the community. There is nothing worse than being a few hundred miles from home, hunting caches, only to find they were not actually available.

Also, some caches require DNF's just because they are both Wicked & Evil :unsure:

Enjoy, have fun, don't take the sport too seriously and please...

Log those DNF's

January 23, 2006

Glad to read this, we had the opposite happen this weekend. I was caching with my family and we happened upon a cache that had a string of DNF's recently, but then a found last week. We thougt it must be a tough hide, so we were game. When we got there, we found a woman standing on the rocks under the bridge right where we wanted to go. Turned out she was a cacher and felt it a challenge to find this, since it had been found recently. She had been there an hour already, so we happily joined her and climbed around on the rocks for another hour, unsuccessfully. Finally we had to give up and call it a day. Then the poster who logged a found, changed it to an Oops, DNF, sorry. SORRY??

Oh well, got some good exercise and met a nice cacher.

Pretty funny log too. GCN47J if you are interested.

rnlorna

January 23, 2006

I have to agree with posting the DNF. I had a cache that had a DNF and I went out to check it just in case. It was still there. Then I had another DNF on one of my other caches and it was missing because a neighbors dog ran off with it and I did not know until the next day. So I log them just in case it is missing but then it just may be hard to find. It still lets the cache owner to keep an eye out.

No shame in posting a DNF. :unsure:

2.1k · January 23, 2006

I agree that it's a good idea to log your DNFs, as, I would think, most geocachers would agree.

I don't think that there are lots of people who don't log any DNFs out there (although I could be wrong)....

It seems like as though discussions about DNFs in the past have centered on when to log a DNF...

if you set out in the morning with the coords in you GPSr, but don't get around to looking for that cache
if you turn on and set your GPSr to point you from your car to the cache, but then decide it's too late in the day to go after another cache
if your appendix bursts 50 yards from your car, you give up, and went to the hospital
if you get to ground zero and hail the size of grapefruit starts to fall (or your 3 year-old son falls apart), so you head home after only a minute or 2 of looking
if you look for 20-30 minutes (or 2 hours...) and still cannot find the thing

Some people will tell you that all 5 scenarios should be logged as a DNF, some people pick another spot on the DNF continuum.

My take on the above scenarios is that I would (and have) most likely not bother mentioning it in the case of the 1st or 2nd scenario, would log the next 2 as notes (explaining what happened), and then log the last as a DNF.

This works for me because the first 2 scenarios don't seem to me like cache hunts, the next 2 scenarios seem like something in the middle, and the last one is clearly a hunt that ended with me not finding the cache.

Jamie

11.3k · January 23, 2006

This cache has some interesting logs.

I don't know why some people don't want to log a DNF. I log all my DNFs because it gives me a complete history of all my caching adventures.

I like the signature line that says:

Logging a DNF isn't giving yourself an 'F'.

3.9k · January 23, 2006

I don't think that there are lots of people who don't log any DNFs out there (although I could be wrong)....

I believe there are lots of them.

Typical scenario: one log per month on a cache, then six months without a log, but for some reason the watch list goes from 3 to 8. Followed by a couple of DNFs.

I have had this with some of my own caches: people who I expect to find it, "don't try" for some reason. Then someone else finds it, and the others pile in on the back of some out-of-band hints. I don't mind that - I social-engineer with the best of them - but I do wish they could have logged the DNFs. Apart from anything else, they help me to calibrate the difficulty rating.

5k · January 23, 2006

I'll chime in here too since I'd like to encourage people to log DNFs.

DNFs are important to me not only because they alert me of possible maintenance issues, but it tells me someone was out there looking for my cache. I like to put caches out for folks to have a good time finding.. and if no one is looking for them (or not reporting looking for them) I don't get as much enjoyment.

All too often, a cache of mine (or other local caches) have gone unfound for weeks or months. Then there will be a log from someone who said they had to make several tries before they found it. I would have liked to known about those several tries... at least then I'd know there was someone interested in my cache. If there is no online documentation of an attempt, I can only think that no one is looking for it. It's courtesy to the hiders, I think.

Jamie

January 24, 2006

January 15 by Lowsky

I feel like a schmuck been here twice, twice!!! and still can't find it and what really schumcks me out is someone found it AFTER I was there!!!( smacks self on forehead) i have a feeling, when i find it i will really feel like a schmuck cause it will have been right in front of my 4 eyes. even the hint didn't help

this was one of my DNF's and I still haven't fount it ... YET!!!

GCN75M Here's looking for you kid.

( edit: to place spaces between quote & post)

Edited January 24, 2006 by Lowsky

10.1k · January 24, 2006

Depends on the cache, depends on the owner. If the owner puts in sarcastic notes after my DNF, or deliberately puts in bad coords to inflate his/her ego, then no, I will not log DNFs. Tough multicache, I may, or may not, log each DNF. On my first nano, I logged one DNF, though it took me five tries to find it. onest tries on honest caches, yes I will DNF, and usually e-mil the owner if I have any concerns, and hoping for a hint.

(Warning: There are many who consider the word 'schm*ck' to be obscene. Check the derivation of the word. My parents would never permit such obscene language to be used.)

5.7k · January 24, 2006

How do you determine that a cache owner 'deliberately' published inaccurate coords?

10.1k · January 24, 2006

I cannot actually guarantee it. With experience, you know which cachers hider's coordinates are going to be 170' off. Once or twice, I might mark it up to inaccuracy. On each step of a five stage multi? On five different caches? With sarcastic remarks? Sorry. No one's GPS is that inaccurate. One gets the gut feeling that it is being done deliberately. Perhaps s/he has cataracts, or does not know how to use a GPS. Thanks, but I had my cataracts removed, and if more than one or two people tell me that the coords are that badly off, I double check, and make corrections, if necessary.

January 24, 2006

Thanks for this post. I had my first DNF yesterday. I have to admit that I was a bit embarassed that I didn't find any caches. I was O for 2. I logged them both, just in case...even though I think it was just a problem with the cacher & not the cache LOL

9.3k · January 24, 2006

I'm one of those misfits that actually enjoys writing. I try to have as much fun with my DNF's as with my finds.

As a hider, I agree with the majority, that a DNF helps me know there might be an issue, and it tells me somebody's interested.

January 24, 2006

I agree with Miragee. I like to keep track of my Finds/DNFs as I'm sure everybody does and logging everything sure makes it a lot easier. I'll even take it a step farther and leave a note if I couldn't find the cache on the second attempt.

Steve

5.7k · January 24, 2006

I cannot actually guarantee it. With experience, you know which cachers hider's coordinates are going to be 170' off. Once or twice, I might mark it up to inaccuracy. On each step of a five stage multi? On five different caches? With sarcastic remarks? Sorry. No one's GPS is that inaccurate. One gets the gut feeling that it is being done deliberately. Perhaps s/he has cataracts, or does not know how to use a GPS. Thanks, but I had my cataracts removed, and if more than one or two people tell me that the coords are that badly off, I double check, and make corrections, if necessary.

And what is the local reviewer's take on all of this? And I suppose that it goes without saying that the cache owner has failed to respond your emails to him.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Team Cotati

10.1k · January 25, 2006

I doubt very much that my local reviewer has attempted any of these caches.

This was intended as a compilation of a few cache owners and several different caches. My point being that you realize, with experience, that cache owner XXXXX's coordinates are probably going to be fifty feet off. Which can be very frustrating in a park that's only fifty feet wide, and loaded with decorative shrubbery.

My cache find for the one 170' off was deleted by the owner. Previous stages were fifty to seventy feet off. Fourteen finds, fifteen DNFs and eleven notes from the cache owner?

Or, are you suggesting that I should be a cache-policeman? I don't see where that's my job. What I am saying is, that with experience, there are a few hiders whose caches I will ignore, or suffer through if they're on someone's nearby list.

1.4k · January 25, 2006

I agree with Miragee. I like to keep track of my Finds/DNFs as I'm sure everybody does and logging everything sure makes it a lot easier. I'll even take it a step farther and leave a note if I couldn't find the cache on the second attempt.

Steve

Some people actually do post multiple DNF's instead of notes on the 2nd time (I haven't yet, though the only time I had 2 DNF's on the same cache I noted in my find log when I found it a day later that I hadn't found it a 2nd time yesterday, my motivation was more not to clutter up the log section rather than sheer embarassment), though you usually tend to see those more on the real tough caches.

1.2k · January 25, 2006

I found a cache that had many finds listed, then out of nowhere, the owner placed a note stating "Replaced the missing cache".

The next 3 "found it" logs stated "came here 3 times looking...it was missing!" and "wow, no wonder I didnt find it the 2 times I looked" and "finally found it on the 3rd trip, glad it was replaced".

If any one of the 3 cachers had logged a DNF it would have triggered the owner to check on it sooner, and saved a lot of trips for cachers!!

Ed

5.7k · January 25, 2006

I doubt very much that my local reviewer has attempted any of these caches.
This was intended as a compilation of a few cache owners and several different caches. My point being that you realize, with experience, that cache owner XXXXX's coordinates are probably going to be fifty feet off. Which can be very frustrating in a park that's only fifty feet wide, and loaded with decorative shrubbery.

My cache find for the one 170' off was deleted by the owner. Previous stages were fifty to seventy feet off. Fourteen finds, fifteen DNFs and eleven notes from the cache owner?

Or, are you suggesting that I should be a cache-policeman? I don't see where that's my job. What I am saying is, that with experience, there are a few hiders whose caches I will ignore, or suffer through if they're on someone's nearby list.

Are you saying that you haven't notified the local reviewer? Or are you implying that the local reviewers must visit every cache in order to personally observe bad behavior or bad placement or any other condition on a cache? And that only by doing so, that then they would be able to clean out offending cache placements? I was hoping that if enough cache hunters reported 'issues' with certain caches that that would be information enough for some sort of action.

Edited January 25, 2006 by Team Cotati

January 25, 2006

I think the first DNF is hardest to write. I even posted a thread about it a few weeks back. I was trying to find that "breaking point" where you determine that you gave enough effort that you should have found it and didn't. Today alone, I logged 3 DNFs. I logged 6 finds to go with em, but I still chalked up the misses. Like one of the previous posters, I think the DNF should be done with the same attitude as a find. Why be bitter about a DNF, it's not a competition.

10.1k · January 25, 2006

Are you saying that you haven't notified the local reviewer? Or are you implying that the local reviewers must visit every cache in order to personally observe bad behavior or bad placement or any other condition on a cache? And that only by doing so, that then they would be able to clean out offending cache placements? I was hoping that if enough cache hunters reported 'issues' with certain caches that that would be information enough for some sort of action.

Why, no, kind, sir. I did not see it in my job title. Is it in yours? Then you are suggesting that we should all become cache police? Reporting every discrepancy? The mystery cache hider who does not know the difference between a ladder and a monkey bar? The Chinese food container hidden in the rocks with the broken beer bottles, near the adult bookstore?

I had not realized that I was appointed the Cache Nazi. Must have missed that in the guidelines.

The point that I was trying to make (as I have previously noted), is that by experience, one realizes which local cache hiders have good coordinates, and which are notoriously bad.

I fail to understand why you have decided to take this so far off-topic.

January 25, 2006

yes, post all of your DNF's!!

5.7k · January 25, 2006

"Then you are suggesting that we should all become cache police?" Exact au mundo...........dude. Though I must admit that I wouldn't carry it to the extremes that you suggest.

Edited January 25, 2006 by Team Cotati

January 25, 2006

After a couple of DNF's at one of my caches-I wrote a note and added more hints that resulted in people find it. This is what I want, when I spend the time and gas money I like to be rewarded for the hunt.

In out of town DNF's-another cacher then logged a DNF. I keep hoping that the owner will check out the cache or maybe this year a reviewer will ask what is going on.

In December I logged a DNF-when I took an icy bath 12 feet from the cache. I wanted to warn others that the snow covered up a big hazard. I will try this cache again in April.

January 25, 2006

I never log DNF's. If I think there's a problem with the cache, I contact the owner directly.

And don't waste your time trying to change my mind or telling me how inconsiderate you think I am. I've heard it all before.

January 25, 2006

Here's a great example of a brand new cache racking up the DNFs:

Great Falls - Cedar Creek Challenge

The hider is known for good coordinates. We FTFd his previous hide which had perfect coords.

This is just an example of a booger cache getting the DNFs it deserves.

- T of TandS

January 25, 2006

Ok, well, i feel like an idiot now. I haven't logged any of my DNF's, and there's about 6 of them so far. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why I haven't logged a DNF. Maybe everyone else has been able to find it, but I'm such a goober that I can't and dont want everyone to know? Is it too late to log DNF's from 2-3 weeks ago?

January 25, 2006

Writing DNFs is such a ball, I wish I had some more backed up from the past to do now. It's possibly the very best form of all to go back an log forgotten DNFs. Go for it!

- T of TandS

January 25, 2006

Maybe everyone else has been able to find it, but I'm such a goober that I can't and dont want everyone to know? Is it too late to log DNF's from 2-3 weeks ago?

Go for it

I log all my -DNF- even twice if I can't find it no matter how silly I feel when the next persons log says "Easy find -found it in minutes"

Go to your log in page pull down the date and backdate to the day you DNF and 'VOILA' maybe others will tell the truth after that too.

January 25, 2006

Ok, well, i feel like an idiot now. I haven't logged any of my DNF's, and there's about 6 of them so far. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why I haven't logged a DNF. Maybe everyone else has been able to find it, but I'm such a goober that I can't and dont want everyone to know? Is it too late to log DNF's from 2-3 weeks ago?

No, it's not too late at all. Just date your log for the day you actually made the attempt or as close as you can remember the date. People often log both finds and DNFs after some time has elapsed because they are traveling or life just gets in the way of doing cache logs.

I think most new cachers feel a bit foolish logging their first DNFs. especially for so called easy caches but if you brouse through some cache logs you will spot ones logged by people with an impressive number of finds. And when I do a DNF it makes me feel good to see another by somebody with hundreds-thousands of finds. If everybody found every cache, easily, on the first try it wouldn't be as much fun.

I've greatly appreciated DNFs for my caches that were missing or in trouble and I have tweaked the difficuly up a notch for a few of mine that were harder to find than I thought they were. And I cache a lot while traveling so DNF logs help me decided which caches I want to look for when I have limited time in an area.

Logged six finds and only one DNF today!

For Our New Cachers

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