Event Cache Not Published - Need Help

[+Kilted Cacher]

Here's the pre-packaged message I got from the local admin:

 

You are receiving this email because you are the owner of this listing.

 

Location: Kentucky, United States

KY Admin archived Crawlathon Geocaching Trail (Archived) (Not Published) (Event Cache) at 1/18/2006

 

Log Date: 1/18/2006

Greetings Kilted Cacher,

 

I'm afraid I'm unable to list your event. The general rule for events is that they need to be submitted at least 2 weeks prior to the event date (as noted in the guidelines). At certain times, it may be a full 3 days before a reviewer is able to look at a cache submission. This, combined with the fact that new cache notices are only sent out once a week, means that it may be a full 10 days before the information about the event is distributed via email. And since a lot of people don't check their email every day, or only have access to email at work, the notification time frame can be even longer.

 

Because of this, it's necessary for people to submit events in enough time to ensure that a significant number of people can be made aware of it. While it may be possible to directly notify a few people about it, events are meant to be open to everyone, so there needs to be enough time for people to find out about it through normal channels.

 

It is great that you are representing Geocaching to the spelunkers, hope you have a good time.

 

Sincerely,

 

S-Gator - KY Admin

Geocaching.com Volunteer Reviewer

reply to: SubroGator@gmail.com

refer to GCT2FX in your reply

 

Here is a description of the event:

 

Group get-together to help introduce geocaching to a new group of outdoor enthusiasts (Spelunkers).

 

On Friday night around 8:30, a short 15 minute presentation will be given on Geocaching to a group of spelunkers who have never cached before. Then on Saturday morning, starting at 0830 hrs (8:30 a.m.) the first group of people will be heading out to do some caching along trails. Then every hour after that for about 6 hours a new group will leave to do caches. I would like to have several of us meet around 8:00 am at the main lodge to get organized and ready for the day's activities. There will be 12 caches placed throughout the park to find. Most of the people will probably not have their own GPSr, so if you have extra bring them. Just remember, this is an introduction to Geocaching, so nothing will be too difficult.

 

This is a Caving weekend and not a geocaching weekend, so just remember that that will be their focus. We are there to offer an activity between their caving tours. Over the last few years, an average of 600-700 people attend this event each year. I am looking forward to this as a way of getting geocaching out to a new group of people.

 

Crawlathon Website : (www.crawlathon.com)

 

 

1. This event will happen whether gc.com approves or not. What I don't understand is that this will benefit gc.com by giving it exposure to a new large group of people.

 

2. Is this a new guideline? I've seen several event caches, including mine, that were approved with less than two weeks until the event. If this was known, we would have tried to submit before the timeline.

 

3. We just had a meeting with the officials running the Crawlathon on Saturday (which was two weeks exactly from the day of the event) to get the run-down of what we could do that weekend. Once we had the info and some of us sat down to talk about it, we submitted the cache for approval.

 

4. I ask for someone to help out here and get this cache approved. I don't see a downside to not approving this cache.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

The guideline was changed early last year, not sure of the exact date.

 

You *did* check the box that said you read the guidelines, didn't you?

[+Quiggle]

As the guidelines that were quoted to you state, you do need to have it submitted at least 2 weeks ahead of time. The reasoning was in the reply and can also be found in the guidelines. This guideline was in place before the last revision in November, and the revision prior to that was in Feb 05 I believe, meaning the guideline has been in place for nearly a year. You can see a March 05 copy of the guidelines here.

 

I'm not sure how posting a geocaching event on a geocaching website will give it "exposure to a new large group of people" when they are already going to be there anyway. Was it promoted amongst the spelunking clubs that you are trying to attract? What is the upside to publishing your event that is a week or so away if the intent is to recruit non-geocachers who will already be in attendance?

 

As someone in the other appeals thread suggested, appealing a cache in an instance where the reviewer may not be applying the guidelines appropriately to the situation is one thing (in that case, the use of a GPS), but when the guidelines are clear on a particular issue, what is it exactly that you are looking for?

Edited January 19, 2006 by Quiggle

[Keystone]

Good memory, Saxman. The two week advance notice guideline was added in February 2005. It's a guideline, not a rule, so yes there will be events listed ten days in advance rather than 14. I thought that the reviewer's note captured the reasoning for this guideline very well.

 

In addition to the timing issue, since there are 600 to 700 people attending who are not geocachers, I question whether this event meets the other listing requirement for an event cache, namely that the event be organized by geocachers and primarily for geocachers.

[+Kilted Cacher]

The event is the geocaching trail. What I need are volunteers who have cached before to come out and help guide the people who are going to be there (600-700 people). With only a handful of people committed to coming to help guide and take part in, I would have hoped that the event would have been published, so that I could get some exposure throughout the state and other geocaching organizations, so that they may attend as well.

[+Quiggle]

The event is the geocaching trail.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#event

 

"In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list."

 

Can you contact a local club or group of cachers to help out? I don't know that using an event listing is the way to solicit volunteers.

[Keystone]

The event is the geocaching trail.

Then, apart from the 15 minute introductory class, this event fails yet a third part of the listing guidelines for event caches: that they are not to be organized for the sole purpose of finding other caches.

 

Please don't misunderstand -- just as KYAdmin noted to you, I think it is great that you are trying to introduce our sport to a new audience. It's just that this particular way of doing it is not a geocaching event cache under the listing guidelines. I encourage you to publicize the spelunking weekend and the geocaching class through local forums and mailing lists, or in the appropriate regional forum here in the Groundspeak Forums. People willing to help with the guided cache hunt ought to be motivated to do so regardless of whether they earn a smiley face for their good efforts.

 

EDIT: Quiggle and I keep posting the same thing, except that I am far more long-winded. I will bow out of this thread because you are in very capable hands.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Keystone

[+AtoZ]

It is a guideline as our local approver, the great, glorious and kind hearted person he is, was nice enought to list an event I had just a week before the event. So it is up to the approver you may ask someone else's help.

cheers

[Aushiker]

Hi

 

Just an aside, but last time I looked Geocaching.com or rather Groundspeak was a commercial enterprise, no? Here is someone doing something that might draw in customers of the aforementioned business.

 

Seems to be, that a smart business might be working with the person rather than ahh, putting him down for his efforts.

 

Just a thought ...

 

Andrew

[+Kilted Cacher]

The caches along the trail are not permanent caches, they are temp caches for the event only.

 

I am the president of the local geocaching club here in eastern Kentucky and we have been discussing this for a while, and I do expect a few of our members to be there.

 

After further review of the guidelines, I see the two week rule. Unfortunately, it looks like this cache will not be approved. The event will still happen and hopefully I get enough volunteers to help out.

[+Lil Devil]

Good luck with your plans. The event looks like fun.

[Hugh Jazz]

they are not to be organized for the sole purpose of finding other caches.

... unless you call your event a CACHE MACHINE, and have as your stated goal to find as many caches as possible, in which case it's OK to list that as an event.

 

BTW for the record I like the 2-week rule. It makes good sense, give everybody time to plan for the event. Not everyone hangs out on the computer 24/7 like some of us do.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Hugh Jazz

[+yumitori]

... unless you call your event a CACHE MACHINE, and have as your stated goal to find as many caches as possible, in which case it's OK to list that as an event.

 

 

Actually, when folks set up cache machines around the Pacific Northwest they have to be careful to include a lunch or dinner gathering which is the 'real' event. (And no, getting together in some parking lot before the day's activities doesn't count.) If all you can do is come to the dinner, you still log the event.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

... unless you call your event a CACHE MACHINE, and have as your stated goal to find as many caches as possible, in which case it's OK to list that as an event. 

 

 

Actually, when folks set up cache machines around the Pacific Northwest they have to be careful to include a lunch or dinner gathering which is the 'real' event. (And no, getting together in some parking lot before the day's activities doesn't count.) If all you can do is come to the dinner, you still log the event.

Looking at that cache page and reading the guidelines, I don't see how it got listed. There are only 1 or 2 lines about a dinner while the majority of it deals with the cache machine itself. In essence an event to get together to find a bunch of caches- "In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.".

 

I don't really have a problem with that type of event, just noting that it does appear to be contrary to the guidelines.

 

At least they were hunting regular caches and not temps that will then be logged on the event page....

[+Kilted Cacher]

At least they were hunting regular caches and not temps that will then be logged on the event page....

The reason we are using temps is that the state park is also a State Nature Preserve and does not allow the placement of permanent caches, however just for this event they are allowing us to do the temp caches for the weekend to get 'geocaching' out to this large group. The Park Officials are really exited about this and have actually stated that they would like to do a geocaching weekend just for us cachers. If we get in good with the Park Officials this might open up an opportunity to discuss the loosening of restrictions at other state parks. Once they realize this sport is not about digging up buried treasure and destroying nature habitats, maybe we can move forward and get some new areas opened up.

[+Mudfrog]

I am the president of the local geocaching club here in eastern Kentucky and we have been discussing this for a while, and I do expect a few of our members to be there.

 

I think you could have made this work if you changed a couple of things in your event description. But even if there were no two week guideline, you didnt stand much of a chance of straightening it out with the event date being so close.

 

Im just curious as to why you waited to the last minute to submit as an event if you have been discussing this for a while?

[+The Cheese Eaters]

Here's the pre-packaged message I got from the local admin:

 

You are receiving this email because you are the owner of this listing.

 

Location: Kentucky, United States

KY Admin archived Crawlathon Geocaching Trail (Archived) (Not Published) (Event Cache) at 1/18/2006

 

Log Date: 1/18/2006

Greetings Kilted Cacher,

 

I'm afraid I'm unable to list your event. The general rule for events is that they need to be submitted at least 2 weeks prior to the event date (as noted in the guidelines). At certain times, it may be a full 3 days before a reviewer is able to look at a cache submission. This, combined with the fact that new cache notices are only sent out once a week, means that it may be a full 10 days before the information about the event is distributed via email. And since a lot of people don't check their email every day, or only have access to email at work, the notification time frame can be even longer.

 

Because of this, it's necessary for people to submit events in enough time to ensure that a significant number of people can be made aware of it. While it may be possible to directly notify a few people about it, events are meant to be open to everyone, so there needs to be enough time for people to find out about it through normal channels.

 

It is great that you are representing Geocaching to the spelunkers, hope you have a good time.

 

Sincerely,

 

S-Gator - KY Admin

Geocaching.com Volunteer Reviewer

reply to: SubroGator@gmail.com

refer to GCT2FX in your reply

 

Here is a description of the event:

 

Group get-together to help introduce geocaching to a new group of outdoor enthusiasts (Spelunkers).

 

On Friday night around 8:30, a short 15 minute presentation will be given on Geocaching to a group of spelunkers who have never cached before. Then on Saturday morning, starting at 0830 hrs (8:30 a.m.) the first group of people will be heading out to do some caching along trails. Then every hour after that for about 6 hours a new group will leave to do caches. I would like to have several of us meet around 8:00 am at the main lodge to get organized and ready for the day's activities. There will be 12 caches placed throughout the park to find. Most of the people will probably not have their own GPSr, so if you have extra bring them. Just remember, this is an introduction to Geocaching, so nothing will be too difficult.

 

This is a Caving weekend and not a geocaching weekend, so just remember that that will be their focus. We are there to offer an activity between their caving tours. Over the last few years, an average of 600-700 people attend this event each year. I am looking forward to this as a way of getting geocaching out to a new group of people.

 

Crawlathon Website : (www.crawlathon.com)

 

 

1. This event will happen whether gc.com approves or not. What I don't understand is that this will benefit gc.com by giving it exposure to a new large group of people.

 

2. Is this a new guideline? I've seen several event caches, including mine, that were approved with less than two weeks until the event. If this was known, we would have tried to submit before the timeline.

 

3. We just had a meeting with the officials running the Crawlathon on Saturday (which was two weeks exactly from the day of the event) to get the run-down of what we could do that weekend. Once we had the info and some of us sat down to talk about it, we submitted the cache for approval.

 

4. I ask for someone to help out here and get this cache approved. I don't see a downside to not approving this cache.

Just submit the cache, and say that the event wil be in 3 weeks ?

[+wimseyguy]

I think what you are doing is a great idea. I'm a bit shocked but quite pleased that you have found a way to A-bring cachers and cavers together(the history isn't exactly great there), and B- get the land managers of an area currently off limits excited about hosting this event. You are to be congratulated for putting all this together, and I wish you all the best with the date. I'm glad to see it is going forward, even though it will not be listed as an official event.

 

Exposure for geocaching-great

Agreement between involved groups-great

timing and compliance with guidelines-not great

 

Perhaps you should schedule a follow-up event for next week or the following so all those who attended can get back together over some tasty vittles and cold beverages of choice. This way you will comply with the 2 week advance guideline, and provide some continuity to this great start of new relationships?

[+Renegade Knight]

The event is the geocaching trail.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#event

 

"In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list."

 

Can you contact a local club or group of cachers to help out? I don't know that using an event listing is the way to solicit volunteers.

I don't think this applies.

 

This is not a cache machine, and even if it were it's not the sole purpose.

 

What it is, is a way to introce a group of peopel to geocahcing ,to discuss geocaching, to demonstrate geocaching and help non cachers have a good time.

 

It doesn't matter if it were a group of kids or folks from the rest home. Now if it was a cache machine then yes I can see the issue.

 

As far as I can tell the real issue is the short lead time. For that the solution is exactly what you suggest.

[+Renegade Knight]

At least they were hunting regular caches and not temps that will then be logged on the event page....

The reason we are using temps is that the state park is also a State Nature Preserve and does not allow the placement of permanent caches,...

That's another issue. There is no such thing as a permanent cache. However that's your neck of the woods.

[+Mopar]

Just submit the cache, and say that the event wil be in 3 weeks ?

And then what? Change the date back after it's been listed?

[+AZBuckeye04]

If we get in good with the Park Officials this might open up an opportunity to discuss the loosening of restrictions at other state parks. Once they realize this sport is not about digging up buried treasure and destroying nature habitats, maybe we can move forward and get some new areas opened up.

This is great Kilted Cacher! I'm sorry it didn't work out for it to be listed, but thank you for taking part in trying to build a relationship with park officials that puts geocaching in a positive light.

 

AZBliss02

[+Hula Bum]

Kinda on a different note, but I think still with the thread (being that as I read it the problem lies with volunteer issues).

 

For those planning future events I would suggest everyone get their volunteers before the event is published. Events can be stressful to put on and last thing you need to be doing is worrying about the help and there not being enough of it!

 

Like I said, too late for this one, but hopefully it'll save someone the stress your going through when they go to plan their event.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

At least they were hunting regular caches and not temps that will then be logged on the event page....

The reason we are using temps is that the state park is also a State Nature Preserve and does not allow the placement of permanent caches, however just for this event they are allowing us to do the temp caches for the weekend to get 'geocaching' out to this large group. The Park Officials are really exited about this and have actually stated that they would like to do a geocaching weekend just for us cachers. If we get in good with the Park Officials this might open up an opportunity to discuss the loosening of restrictions at other state parks. Once they realize this sport is not about digging up buried treasure and destroying nature habitats, maybe we can move forward and get some new areas opened up.

I gathered that your temp caches were to be used as examples of caches to show the noncachers what the caching experience is like. That's a good thing.

 

I was refering to other events that use large numbers of temp caches that are placed for no other reason than to log them as finds on the event page to boost ones numbers. Not a good thing (IMHO).

[+DiskDevil]

I was refering to other events that use large numbers of temp caches that are placed for no other reason than to log them as finds on the event page to boost ones numbers. Not a good thing (IMHO).

I think that this practice should be banned. You already get a smiley for the event. Just another way to cheat yourself and pad your stats. Bad karma.....

[Jeremy]

It's not really an event for many of the reasons indicated above. However it does seem to be a great idea to expose geocaching to another group of folks. If you need assistance from other local geocachers we occasionally offer the ability to contact a small radius of folks who have accounts in the system to let them know about the event and ask for assistance. If you wish to do this, send an email to the contact address and we'll see what we can do.

 

This is just one of things that is a noble idea but the wrong implementation. We can certainly accomodate these kinds of requests but the event cache isn't really the right place for this one.