Jump to content

Event Cache Or Commercial Cache?


NoLemon
Followers 2

Recommended Posts

The cache listing of an upcoming event is:

 

9:00 AM at <location>. <Location> is a neighborhood restaurant with plenty of parking. We have scheduled their meeting room for a Saturday breakfast.

 

<Location> is located on the corner of XXXX street and YYYY avenue in ZZZZZ. Stop in Saturday morning and have breakfast with the <area> area’s most dedicated geocachers. Tell them you're with the <area> Geocachers and they will direct you to our room. <Area> Geocachers may not work, they may not sleep but they sure do like to eat!

 

This event will be the <identifying info snipped>.  Everyone is invited to come, whether or not they <identifying info snipped>.

 

This is your opportunity to meet other people with a geocaching interest. You will be able to compare GPS units, swap stories (try to tell a taller tale), eat a hearty breakfast and be entertained by ‘50s era background music. There will be a FTF prize and there may even be a prize for the person who is able to put the most names and faces together.

 

To receive credit for this event, you must find the location, attend (sign in) the event between 9:00 AM and 10:00 AM and purchase a minimum of one item from the menu.

(The emphasis was added by me for the purpose of this post.)

 

How is this not a commercial cache? I have no problem with an event charging a fee to cover the costs of putting on the event (insurance, site rental, etc.); but requiring attendees to purchase an item from the venue doesn't seem right.

Link to comment
To receive credit for this event, you must find the location, attend (sign in) the event between 9:00 AM and 10:00 AM and purchase a minimum of one item from the menu.

 

I agree that the last line needs to go or it's commercial. No volunteer approver is perfect. :blink:

 

I actually don't like the time constraint for logging a find either. How supremely anal. An event is an event period. If you made the effort to get down there while it's going on, then it's a smiley hands down.

Link to comment
To receive credit for this event, you must find the location, attend (sign in) the event between 9:00 AM and 10:00 AM and purchase a minimum of one item from the menu.

 

I agree that the last line needs to go or it's commercial. No volunteer approver is perfect. :blink:

And neither is any cache hider/owner. :)

 

I just want to clarify that I'm not suggesting a reviewer did something wrong. The cache listing could have been changed after the cache was approved.

 

I'm just asking for a general consensus as to whether or not the caching community (or at least the small portion that uses the forums) think the requirement of purchasing an item in order to log an event is over the line.

Link to comment
Could this be something like a "one drink minimum"?  Where in order to get the room the organizer had to promise everyone would eat something from, the menu?

 

Just a thought.

I tried to do one of those and the idea fell like a stone.

 

The restaurant in question wanted the business and gave us the entire front bar (free) instead. It worked out wayyyy better. The room was bigger. The bar was 2 steps away. Everyone ordered what they wanted anyway and I just held the second annual event at the same spot.

 

BTW- 40-55 people showed up each time and their private room wouldn't have had the space for it. (Capacity 35 persons)

Edited by Snoogans
Link to comment

So how do get restaurants and bars to give us free space?

 

We're hosting our first event on Feb 6 (Bread and Roses, Manchester NH). I certainly didn't promise the pub owner that everyone would buy something, but he's giving us the back room and I told him I expect 40 to 80 people to show up. Right now I have over 20 confirmed dinner guests and perhaps a dozen more in the various "maybe" categories. If the past is a good predictor (from talking with other local event hosts) I'll see these numbers about double on the day of the event.

 

If I had gone to the pub and said I want the back room and nobody will be forced to buy something, she would have told me to hit the road.

 

As it is, it is certainly implied that the pub expects the attendees at the event to buy an appetizer, dinner, or a drink. It is also certainly not stated that they must.

 

A recent event in the area used the host's condo association common area. I don't have access to one of those, nor does the common area come with wait-staff and a stocked bar. There are events in parks. There are breakfast events in diners. There are events on weekend mornings. There are events on school-day nights.

 

There are all kinds of events. Some expect you to buy something.

 

Paul

Link to comment
So how do get restaurants and bars to give us free space?

 

We're hosting our first event on Feb 6 (Bread and Roses, Manchester NH). I certainly didn't promise the pub owner that everyone would buy something, but he's giving us the back room and I told him I expect 40 to 80 people to show up. Right now I have over 20 confirmed dinner guests and perhaps a dozen more in the various "maybe" categories. If the past is a good predictor (from talking with other local event hosts) I'll see these numbers about double on the day of the event.

 

If I had gone to the pub and said I want the back room and nobody will be forced to buy something, she would have told me to hit the road.

 

As it is, it is certainly implied that the pub expects the attendees at the event to buy an appetizer, dinner, or a drink. It is also certainly not stated that they must.

 

A recent event in the area used the host's condo association common area. I don't have access to one of those, nor does the common area come with wait-staff and a stocked bar. There are events in parks. There are breakfast events in diners. There are events on weekend mornings. There are events on school-day nights.

 

There are all kinds of events. Some expect you to buy something.

 

Paul

If it's a "requirement" or is "expected" that people will buy something there, then maybe you shouldn't meet there in the first place. There is a meeting room available to the public at every fire station in my town. All we have to do is reserve it in advance and clean up after ourselves. Our tax dollars already paid for the room. People can bring their own food if they choose.

 

I have had events at restaurants before also, but it was never a requirement that everyone (or anyone) buy food. Yes, many people chose to, just as they chose to attend the event, but that's far from being "required" to.

Link to comment
So how do get restaurants and bars to give us free space? ...

Talk to the manager. Tell him that you would like to meet there and give him an idea of how many people you would expect. If he wants to enact a minimum order, tell him that you can't do that, but most people are still likely to order. If he doesn't go for it, start going to a different restaurant.

Link to comment

Talk to the manager.  Tell him that you would like to meet there and give him an idea of how many people you would expect.

I did talk to the manager. That's how I booked the room. A minmum order was never brought up and I would have hated it if she did bring it up.

 

Of course most people will order something, but the restaurant owner needs people to order to give us the space.

 

The non-commercial nature of events, taken to extremes, will eventually prohibit restaurant events.

 

Some like park events, some like common area events (like the condo association one I mentioned or the fire station one that Team GPSaxaphone meniton), and some like restaurant events. If I'm hosting an event I don't want to do the work of arranging food and cleaning up. As host, that's my choice. Others will make different choices. This is the big advantage of restaurant events. It transfers the cleanup and food arrangement from the host to the attendees (who help with their wallet).

 

And as for choosing another pub, sadly, in NH, it is difficult to find a smoke-free pub.

 

Having enjoyed a restaurant event that was 42 miles from home, we decided to have one a little closer. This area alreday has had common area events and it already has had park events. I'm fufilling a need for the local community and this kind of talk scares me. (And yes, maybe I'm overreating, but I'm just nervous about my first event coming up...)

 

Paul

Link to comment

This is very easy to solve.

 

If a restaurant is asking for a minimum order, it's not because they want to make their chefs create 80 dishes for your group...it's because they want the money of using their space to house 80 people. They're not a meeting hall, they're a restaurant...and they only survive by getting money for people coming there.

 

Therefore, when a minimum order is requested by the manager/owner when you're setting up the reservation, make the suggestion that you instead pay a flat fee for the usage. If they were going to require everyone at the minimum purchase something off the menu (like the original poster's copied cache info), then pick a price off the menu just below the average (if the avg app is $5 and the average meal is $12, then name a price of around $7-8 per person) and see if they will agree to take the flat rate instead.

 

$7 for 80 people reservation....$560 for the use of the space. At that point, ask that the first $560 of the final bill be covered by that fee and that you will pay anything above that.

 

I have used this procedure with bars and restaurants plenty of times. In fact, if you suggest that you'll place a bar tab of X per person upfront, then most places may throw in a buffet-style serving of three to four of their better entrees and allow your party to serve itself until the allotted food is gone (again, if anything more is needed or wanted, it's purchased ala carte from the menu by the orderer). Once the tab is used up, the party pays for drinks ala carte again.

 

As long as the place is assured a certain amount of money, that's all they want. Then you can either foot the bill up front and collect from attendees as they arrive or ask people who have RSVP'd to paypal/send you the cash for the event...or get fancy and hold your first meeting at a free location and collect from *those* attendees for "meeting costs" and hold this money for the next meeting to pay the restaurant promised tab ahead of time, and then collect at the restaurant for the next time from those attendees.

Link to comment

I stumbled over the same description yesterday as the OP and thought that it is a very unfair requirement. Though the time frame for the breakfast is understandable, it is still hard to manage for people travelling a long way.

I wouldn't really call it a commercial cache as the hider might not be involved in the buisness, but, nevertheless, you should never be required to purchase something from a third party during an event. What would people with small children and their own caching name do? :blink: Or the dogs with their own accout? :)

Link to comment

Hi All, The confines of this cache are clear and to the point. If you, as an adult, do not want to attend - for what ever reason, don't. Every event cache has a time limit - it may not be an hour, but every one only last for a finite period of time. Each and every cache requires something out of everyone - be it time, gas, blood, sweat, whatever. This is an easy event where you sit down with your local caching buddies and have some breakfast to discuss the caching game that you all played over the previous couple months.

 

Don't want to go?? THEN DON'T!!!!

 

Get over it.

Link to comment

I agree puchasing something shouldn't be a requirement or even be mentioned on the page.

But what kind of heel would come to one of these restaurant events and not order anything? I think that's pretty inconsiderate of the facilities and the fellow cachers that coordinated the event.

When we have them, we mention nothing of a requirement to buy anything, but everyone does because it's the apropriate thing to do.

Link to comment

Good point. Most people will come to eat. It's a breakfast event. I know I would plan to eat while I was there.

 

The problem is making it a requirement to log the event. That's wrong, as well as unnecessary, for the reasons stated above, and really hard to keep track of.

 

Does the cache lister plan to collect receipts and match them to the logs?

 

My guess is that it was just a poor choice of words, and the event planner is just trying to encourage people to support the restaurant. Ask them to modify the wording and let it fly.

Link to comment

Hmmm, what kind of heel? I guess the heel who's husband lost his job the week after Christmas and eating breakfast or getting coffee outside of the home may not be in the budget? I can cache all I want, because my GPS is paid for. I eat breakfast at home, because the groceries are paid for. :blink:

 

I was going to let this event go, not mention it and likely not go, but...I do have a verbal apology to make to another player. Just because someone doesn't order at a restaurant, doesn't make them a heel. It means they may have other priorities.

Link to comment
I agree puchasing something shouldn't be a requirement or even be mentioned on the page.

But what kind of heel would come to one of these restaurant events and not order anything?

 

I've been to restaurant events where I didn't eat. First, they are usually 7 or 8:00 in the evening and my stomach wants food by 6:00 or it starts complaining big time, so I eat before I go there. Second my wife has been out of work so money is tight.

 

I do realize that if everyone there did what I did, it could be an issue, but everyone doesn't do that. Most people order meals. I'd be pretty miffed if someone refused to let me log the event because I didn't spend money.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment

From the Forum Guidelines

 

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

Foul Language and obscene images will not be tolerated. This site is family friendly, and all posts and posters must respect the integrity of the site.

 

Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

 

Keep the discussion civil, particularly those of you who saw the note posted on the event page about this thread and are coming here for the first time just to respond.

Link to comment

For those defending the event cache as it currently stands, please consider the poor precedence it sets (yes, yes, precedence doesn't matter according to guidelines, yadda yadda yadda).

 

If you can require someone to order food at a restaurant to log an event cache, then what stops the next event from feeling justified in asking you to purchase an item at the gift shop...or require a donation to a specific organization...and so on.

 

Events shouldn't be limited to only those that choose to patron a specific agency, agenda, or proprietor and GC.com shouldn't be hosting a cache/page that requires you to do so and they've turned down and even removed caches that were so worded in the past and promised to do so in the future too.

 

I'm not suggesting anything malevolent about this specific event AT ALL. In fact, I think I went well out of my way to provide a means for using a commerical establishment for the hosting of an event without putting the honus on the attendee to pay the restaurant directly (making it a commercial cache). The difference is that people can attend without having to patronize a restaurant (instead they provide the host cacher with the funds to be able to hold such a meeting...which can include restaurant costs that establish a pre-meal tab with the restaurant).

 

In the end, I think it's appropriate for NoLemon to bring up items like this for discussion. Discussion is not harmful and from it, useful things can come up (like my solution above and others'). I hope this discussion remains focused on how to handle questionable cache descriptions such as this one and in what ways people can work to keep commercial-patronization logging requirements out of the hobby at this site and NOT used as an attack on someone or a labelling for bringing this up for discussion in the first place.

Link to comment
I'd be pretty miffed if someone refused to let me log the event because I didn't spend money.

Just as a gauge, would you be willing to pay an event fee to attend an event at a restaurant (where portions may be used to compensate the restaurant) even if you attend but plan on not ordering anything?

 

I have a feeling that I know the answer, but I wanted to make it clear.

Link to comment
Don't want to go?? THEN DON'T!!!!

 

Get over it.

I'm sorry but that goes against the ideology behind event caches. The entire geocaching community (and primarily the geocaching community) should be able to attend an event without having to determine their level of support behind a specific commercial venture as a requirement for attendance.

 

You can not use Six Flags picnic areas for events because they require a ticket purchase to gain access. By the same logic, you should not be required to purchase a menu item in order to gain access to an event.

 

There are a number of ways this can be avoided and this cache should be modified to use one of those acceptable ways instead.

Link to comment
I'd be pretty miffed if someone refused to let me log the event because I didn't spend money.

Just as a gauge, would you be willing to pay an event fee to attend an event at a restaurant (where portions may be used to compensate the restaurant) even if you attend but plan on not ordering anything?

 

I have a feeling that I know the answer, but I wanted to make it clear.

 

Absolutely and I have.

 

What bothers me at some of these things, and it just doesn't happen with geocachers (It's common everywhere) is that there are usually two ways of paying for these things. Either everyone divides the check equally regardless of what they ate, or people chip in to cover the cost of their meal. In the first case I find myself ordering a soup and a beer and my wife gets a side salad and a coffe and when the bill comes we have to pay $25 each to cover one persons fliet mignon and another's lobster. I do pay, but I find it annoying.

 

In the latter case it always seems we're short at the end and those who are last to leave (as I often am) wind up tossing in another 10 or 20 bucks apiece to help the host cover the bill.

 

Because money is tight these days we've pretty much just stopped ordering anything and just stop by to socialize.

 

Of course of there is a prix fixed entry fee for the event we pay up, or just don't attend if its not in the budget.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment

While I was searching for the cache in question in this topic, I stumbled onto another one; here is some of the information from the cache page:

 

Price:

Ages 4-8 $4.19 plus tax

Ages 9-12 $5.99 plus tax

Age over 12 $6.99 plus tax

 

Gratuity:

I'm asking that each adult attending drop $1 in a tip bucket which I'll have next to the log book.

 

What do I get for $6.99?:

Breakfast buffet including coffee and juice but soda will be extra.

 

Although there is nothing on the page that specifically says, To get credit, you must..., it is obvious that the event is planned in a restaurant, in a private area with access to a buffet.

 

And I have seen other event caches listed that require a fee of one type or another. I'm not sure, anymore, just what does constitute commercial, although it would seem to me that both of these caches are indeed commercial. :ph34r::lol:

Link to comment

I have to agree that there should be no purchase requirement for cache of any type. That makes it a commercial cache.

 

Ju6613r hit the nail on the head with his suggestion on a remedy. We have a monthly event cache out her in CT that requires nothing of the participants. But of course, we all buy something. The owner appreciates getting the business on a weekday night. (timing is everything) There ia also another regular event at Chuck-e-cheese in upstate NY that operates the same way, and that is on a weekend when the place is jammed. It just depends on the management.

 

I own a restaurant in NY and have had an event there, and am planning another one this summer. We require nothing of the participants and, for that matter, place a few trays of goodies and some pizzas on the tables free of charge. But of course I am a geocacher. We do however, have the event out on the patio and the lawn so as to not interfere with other dinner customers.

 

There is usually a way to work it out with management if they are willing. Otherwise go somewhere else.

Link to comment
I'm not sure, anymore, just what does constitute commercial, although it would seem to me that both of these caches are indeed commercial.

I agree, and that's why I advocate for an "event fee" system where the money is paid to the hosting geocacher and his involvement with the commercial venture is between him and the restaurant and not between the attendees and the restaurant.

 

This may sound like a technicality, but it's really bigger than that. A host paying a commercial establishment does not require each attendee to feel any obligation to that establishment. Their decision then only remains as to whether they choose to attend that event and not whether they choose to support that commercial establishment. Whether they then choose to participate in any of the offerings that their fee generated is up to them.

 

This is exactly the dichotomy that keeps the event from being commercialized. If you remove this particular event setting and imagine an event at a local park (free entry and free reservation of a pavilion). Now imagine that the cache page says "you *must* buy your lunch for this picnic at the nearby McDonalds or do not come" vs "a mandatory fee of $5 per person will be collected and McDonalds food will be provided for lunch". It is a vastly different reference frame and an important shift in the paradigm of attendance for the event goers to decide upon.

 

EDIT: clarity

Edited by ju66l3r
Link to comment
I'll add my voice to the not appropriate column. I'd point it out to the reviewer who approved it. he may have just missed it or it was added later, but either way,he should know about it.

As the reviewer for this cache, I can attest to this. Either the cache page was NOT like that when I reviewed it, or I missed it. I wouldn't have published a cache with that requirement.

 

The page has been temporarily retracted from publication pending a response from the owner. I'm sure the owner will have no problem removing the requirement and the cache will once again be published.

 

I'd like to thank a number of you that brought this to my attention. Right at the top of the guidelines page:

If a cache has been posted and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it.

 

That's exactly what happened, and it will be taken care of.

 

I also humbly suggest that those who are up in arms about this cache on one side or the other, please be patient for this issue to now be resolved by the reviewer (me) and the owner.

 

THANKS!

 

Cache on!

Link to comment

I agree, and that's why I advocate for an "event fee" system where the money is paid to the hosting geocacher and his involvement with the commercial venture is between him and the restaurant and not between the attendees and the restaurant.

You're way is better, but there is no way I would host such an event. I will not put myself in the position of having to collect hundreds of dollars or pay hundreds of dollars to the pub.

 

You get major props from me for doing so.

 

Paul

Link to comment

Regarding the other cache - I think the fine line is drawn between requiring a purchase for a successful log, and letting people know the event is at a restaurant and what the meal prices are.

 

The other event in question is at a buffet with a VERY large parking area. I don't think the restaurant would be able to actually hold all of the cachers planning on attending, so people will congregate outside. Letting people know that breakfast is available, and what the cost is - in my interpretation is no different than a cache page saying that there's a really neat museum nearby or a neat restaurant. It's not commercial to say that there is a restaurant. It is commercial to say "to get credit you MUST BUY something from the restaurant."

Link to comment

Boy, what a big tadoo over nothing.

This is a local event that will be attended by local cachers that know

each other. It appears that everybody making a big stink is not from this area.

Every one here in the quad cities knows what a big jokester Charlie is.

And they all realize that a purchase is really not required. They also know

that you don't have to be there between certain times to qualify to log it.

I spend many hours with Charlie and probably know him better than any other cacher. I don't think a single person planning on attending this event ever thought

that they had to buy something. The event will go on listed or not and I will buy a cup of coffee.

I think it might have been prudent for the Ill.Adm. to have contacted Charlie

to discuss the concerns.

oldtimer1

Link to comment

I agree, and that's why I advocate for an "event fee" system where the money is paid to the hosting geocacher and his involvement with the commercial venture is between him and the restaurant and not between the attendees and the restaurant.

You're way is better, but there is no way I would host such an event. I will not put myself in the position of having to collect hundreds of dollars or pay hundreds of dollars to the pub.

 

You get major props from me for doing so.

 

Paul

We've been hosting the monthly event Connecticut A-Team mentioned above for 2 years now. Out of that time, there was really only once where we came up really short ($100 or so) at the end of the night. Though we didn't ask, the last people to leave all kicked in extra (even those that didn't eat), and we absorbed the rest. The next month a few people mentioned they had forgot to pay and kicked in extra, so it mostly worked out.

We have worked out some ground rules after that, and it's worked out fine.

Like A-Team mentioned; we hold our event on the slowest night of the month, and the place loves us. We have never required a per person purchase and neither has the location. I think they are quite happy to have 50 paying customers instead of the 5 they would have otherwise; and really are not worried that there might be one person there getting a free place to sit for a few hours.

 

If it's not obvious, I don't care for the idea of requiring a purchase as a condition to log the event either; especially since as it was worded a purchase wasn't required to attend, just to log.

Link to comment

We have a local cacher (RLDILL) that seems to like to and does sponsor very successful events for our caching community . . . he does so at his own personal expense & asks nothing to return his considerable financial outlay.

 

The beauty is, without his involvement, a hat is passed and everyone digs in for a few notes to fill the hat.

 

I asked him about it . . . he told me that it is it kinda like magic! Sometimes he ends up just a few dollars short of his expenses, the next time a few dollars over. Over time, he is absolutely EVEN . . . it is amazing!

 

We have a great community of unique people who see and appreciate the efforts of others to bring joy to our game . . . they certainly understand the matter of a business operating on a 'for profit' basis. I think that, rather than a demand that people purchase, a suggestion with an explanation would resolve the concern to a 'better-than-expected' level of satisfaction.

Edited by GRANPA ALEX
Link to comment

I'm not able to get to the forums or geocaching.com from work. :laughing: (Not that I would have had time for it today, anyway.) So, I am just now catching up on the responses.

 

For the record: My purpose for posting about the event was not to get the event shut down, but rather to elicit discussion regarding the logging requirements and whether or not the majority of cachers felt it was over the line. I deliberately removed identifying information from the text I copied from the cache page and posted. I didn't identify the hiders, the city or the GC code. Had I wanted to cause trouble for the event, I would have emailed the reviewer directly. (Though, my guess as to whom reviewed it would have been wrong. (I would have had to guess because the "published" log had been deleted. :anitongue:))

 

I had planned on attending the event. As I used to live and work in that area (although not for very long), a return visit for caching and meeting cachers is something I'd like to do. Apparently, a personal flame was posted to the page (I knew I should have put it on my watch list :laughing: ). So, I most likely will not attend now.

 

Had I attended, I most likely would have order drinks and probably food. Those who know me know that I can't be in a restaurant for any length of time without ordering *something* :shocked:. I full well agree that if a venue opens their doors and allow cachers to gather there, that the place should be patronized. However, requiring attendees to patronize the venue is a bit much. As has been demonstrated in this thread, there are people, for whatever reason, who can't or won't. They shouldn't be excluded from attending or made to feel unwelcome.

 

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion in a civil manner. For those who took this thread personally, I'm sorry to have offended you. It wasn't intended that way (see my second paragraph above).

 

Now... about that flame. Who still has a copy of the log? I'd like to see it. PM me please. TIA. :unsure:

Edited by NoLemon
Link to comment
Now... about that flame. Who still has a copy of the log? I'd like to see it. PM me please.

I did have the page on my watchlist, and as far as I know there was no "flame". I still plan on attending if at all possible.

 

Personally, I don't see any difference between this issue and the "Everyone is asked to deposit $1 in the tip jar" log as mentioned in this thread above. I have seen several, SEVERAL event caches where some sort of monetary "donation" was required.

 

I also know Charlie personally, and am pretty sure he would have gladly revised the cache page had he only been given a chance to do so.

Link to comment
Boy, what a big tadoo over nothing.

This is a local event that will be attended by local cachers that know

each other. It appears that everybody making a big stink is not from this area.

Every one here in the quad cities knows what a big jokester Charlie is.

And they all realize that a purchase is really not required. They also know

that you don't have to be there between certain times to qualify to log it. ...

I hear you, but the event was posted on an international website. Any cacher could have attended. Cachers that aren't in on your little joke would pay up, but they shouldn't have to. The event clearly violated the guidelines that we all must play by.

Link to comment
Now... about that flame.  Who still has a copy of the log?  I'd like to see it.  PM me please.

I did have the page on my watchlist, and as far as I know there was no "flame". I still plan on attending if at all possible.

 

I have received a copy of the log entry. Thanks to those that have forwarded it.

 

>Location: <omitted>, United States

><cacher> posted a note for <cache name> (Event Cache) at 1/19/2006

>

>Log Date: 1/19/2006

>Listing is being slammed pretty hard in the GC FORUMS, under GEOCACHING

>TOPICS. The thread was stared by NOLEMON who is calling it a commericial

>cache.

>Makes for some interesting reading.

 

Now that I've read it, I'm not sure I would call it a flame, either. That is just how it was communicated to me and I do see how some would see it as a flame. The same message (this cache is being talked about...) could have been posted a bit more diplomatically.

 

I find it funny how a discussion of whether or not it is within the guidelines to require a purchase to log a event cache becomes "slammed pretty hard"... especially when I made an effort to not identify the cache. But then again, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised at this... it has been proven time and again that a lot people cannot look at caches and caching objectively and without bias.

Edited by NoLemon
Link to comment

What about some of the large get togthers that are mentioned in the regional forums? (I haven't attended one so I am not speaking from experience). IE Midwest Geobash, etc. Don't these events wind up being Cache Events that can be logged? They all require registration fees for the event. In the end I think the Cache owner just was overzleaous in reminding people to support the business that was hosting the event.

Link to comment
And I have seen other event caches listed that require a fee of one type or another. I'm not sure, anymore, just what does constitute commercial, although it would seem to me that both of these caches are indeed commercial. :anitongue::laughing:

I saw a fine and interesting cache archived as commercial because it required twenty-five cents to access the cache. But that was not an Event Cache.

This one Regional Event , on the other hand, cost us over $20. We thought that we had reached an agreement with the organizers that, since we were only attending for a short while, that we could forgo some of the expenses. Nope. Cost us over $20. Fee charged to attend = Commercial. We ate no food. But we got charged for it anyway. Even without the food, there was an admission fee. We drove some distance to attend. If we had known that it was going to cost over $20 before we got there, we would not have attended. Yet a cache requiring twenty-five cents was archived as commercial?

I can think of two other caches that required admission fees.

There seems to be a lack of consistancy. Some are permitted. Some are archived. If fees are required, or a purchased is required, does that not constitute Commercial?

Link to comment
[i saw a fine and interesting cache archived as commercial because it required twenty-five cents to access the cache.  But that was not an Event Cache.

This one Regional Event , on the other hand, cost us over $20.  We thought that we had reached an agreement with the organizers that, since we were only attending for a short while, that we could forgo some of the expenses.  Nope.  Cost us over $20.  Fee charged to attend = Commercial.  We ate no food.  But we got charged for it anyway.  Even without the food, there was an admission fee.  We drove some distance to attend.  If we had known that it was going to cost over $20 before we got there, we would not have attended.  Yet a cache requiring twenty-five cents was archived as commercial? 

I can think of two other caches that required admission fees. 

There seems to be a lack of consistancy.  Some are permitted.  Some are archived.  If fees are required, or a purchased is required, does that not constitute Commercial?

Seems pretty consistant to me.

the 25 cent one (I assume) requires a for-profit purchase.

The $20 one (which looks like it was actually $10 per person) was to cover admission to a non-profit organization's park and the rental fees for the event area. It doesn't appear that any of the $10 was profit (and it appears is actually tax deductable).

Edited by Mopar
Link to comment
[i saw a fine and interesting cache archived as commercial because it required twenty-five cents to access the cache.  But that was not an Event Cache.

This one Regional Event , on the other hand, cost us over $20.  We thought that we had reached an agreement with the organizers that, since we were only attending for a short while, that we could forgo some of the expenses.  Nope.  Cost us over $20.  Fee charged to attend = Commercial.  We ate no food.  But we got charged for it anyway.  Even without the food, there was an admission fee.  We drove some distance to attend.  If we had known that it was going to cost over $20 before we got there, we would not have attended.  Yet a cache requiring twenty-five cents was archived as commercial? 

I can think of two other caches that required admission fees. 

There seems to be a lack of consistancy.  Some are permitted.  Some are archived.  If fees are required, or a purchased is required, does that not constitute Commercial?

Seems pretty consistant to me.

the 25 cent one (I assume) requires a for-profit purchase.

The $20 one (which looks like it was actually $10 per person) was to cover admission to a non-profit organization's park and the rental fees for the event area. It doesn't appear that any of the $10 was profit (and it appears is actually tax deductable).

Commercial has been fairly well hashed out in the forums. Mopar pretty much nailed why the two are different and allowable. While you may not like how it plays out (and a fee should be advertised in advance) at least you can figure out with reasonable certainty what will be considered commercial and what won't be.

 

Two years ago it was a lot less certain.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 2
×
×
  • Create New...