Caches In Dry Stone Wallys/cairns!

[Shep, Seren & Tess Dog]

As most people know, the idea of placing caches in dry stone walls or cairns isn't on, as it goes agains the policy of Geocaching & not disturbing the area.

If this is the case, can somebody please tell me WHY my Bothy & The Cairn cache was totally taken apart, even though I had stated in capital letters that the cairn nedn't be touched?!

An I just not making myself clear or what?

I put a spoiler pic, showing quite clearly that the cache was under a single rock, & included a clue that said to look at the spoiler pic. Sadly, all this was totally ignored.

The cachers were even looking for a "sandwich box wrapped in a bin bag" which just proved that they hadn't even bothered reading the page properly, as all the cache was, was a small film cannister.

It took me a very long time, with lots of phone calls to The Forrestry Commission to be given the go ahead to place a cache in this area. Both the FC & The Bothy Owners Associaton were very happy for me to join both hobbies, as they both felt that they could benefit. However, if the FC chap I spoke to comes across this log, he's going to have ahead fit, & could quite possibly tell me to remove it.

As well as wrecking the cairn, the spoiler pic is now no good, as although I think the cannister has been put back in the same place, there is a different rock on top of it!

The cairn was obviously put there for a reason. It may well have something to do with a pagan/wiccan ritual for all I know, in which case, it has now been totally distroyed.

Please let this be a warning to people...

A) Not to place caches dirctly inside cairns/stone walls.

To read the details very carefully & not immediatley start taking said structure apart.

C) To have some flippin' respect for the area!!

 

Seren.x

Edited January 18, 2006 by Shep, Seren & Tess Dog

[+sTeamTraen]

Scott Adams (the author of the Dilbert cartoons) one wrote that the solution to our energy problems would be to harness the one truly inexhaustible resource on the planet, namely human stupidity.

 

He suggested putting a giant hamster wheel in the street, hooked up to an electric generator. After you'd run round for 20 minutes and generated X watt-hours, you would be rewarded with a lottery ticket.

[+MarcoXono]

It is unfortunate that the cairn was dismantled - this sort of thing makes me angry too! The finders should have known better (although clearly didn't) - but I can't help thinking that this could have been avoided if the cache placement and description were better. Please consider the following, so that the chance of a re-occurrence can be reduced:

 

- The cache title includes the words 'The Cairn'

- The description includes a 'trek to a cairn' and 'you will find the cairn', suggesting that the cairn is what you are aiming for.

- 'YOU DO NOT NEED TO TAKE THE CAIRN APART TO FIND THE FILM CANISTER' could be interpreted as "the cache can be retrieved from the cairn without taking it apart". Experienced cachers should know the rules for placing caches, but don't assume this. 'THE CACHE IS NOT IN THE CAIRN' might be better.

- I'm guessing that the cache is close to the cairn. I remember a cache which was within about 10 feet of a dry stone wall, which appeared to have been taken apart by previous cachers. If the cache were far enough away that the coordinates could not be confused, this would reduce the chance of destruction.

 

Regarding clues/description:

- Do not assume that cachers will read the clue. Many will only decrypt it as a last resort, after they've spent time looking for the cache.

- 'Paper-based' cachers may not have printed the spoiler pictures, so a 'see the picture' clue will not help.

- Don't even assume that cachers will read the description. I know several people who will attempt a traditional cache with only the cache name and coordinates.

[Alan White]

Whilst I wouldn't excuse the stupidity of the finder, I would suggest that you consider the advisability of placing a cache near such structures. If the cache were 50m away then it's unlikely that a cacher would search the cairn at all.

 

And you don't want to know what I think of a hint like that. The only time I look at a hint is when I can't find the cache. And, even though I cache with a PDA, is there Internet access at the cache site?

[+Kitty Hawk]

I agree completely with you, but I also agree with the other posts - an offset may protect things better - eg "From the Cairn walk 50 meters West"

 

That would also allow the cache to be made a traditional rather than micro.

[+Simply Paul]

I will be using the phrase 'Dry Stone Wally' to describe anyone who's failed to read the cache page properly (I guess we're all guilty of that once in a while) or who gets destructive in pursuit of a cache (I pulled up some grass yesterday looking for one - but it'll grow back).

 

Thanks for introducing me to the term

[+sTeamTraen]

I will be using the phrase 'Dry Stone Wally' to describe anyone who's failed to read the cache page properly (I guess we're all guilty of that once in a while) or who gets destructive in pursuit of a cache (I pulled up some grass yesterday looking for one - but it'll grow back).

 

Thanks for introducing me to the term

Can you see Dry Stone Wally in this picture ?

 

 

I can see a whole series of books for bored ramblers!

[+Boneychest & Catsuey]

I put a spoiler pic, showing quite clearly that the cache was under a single rock, & included a clue that said to look at the spoiler pic. Sadly, all this was totally ignored.

We work from GSAK and use a Palm when away from home (don't use Spoilersync so no pictures) and it really p's me off when the clue is useless (eg look at the spoiler).

 

Please let this be a warning to people...

A) Not to place caches dirctly inside cairns/stone walls.

Totally agree

 

To read the details very carefully & not immediatley start taking said structure apart.

I would only have skimmed over your rather long description ("Cairn, blah blah blah, Parking coords, blah blah blah, OK lets go!"). The important stuff needs to be at the beginning

 

C) To have some flippin' respect for the area!!

Again, totally agree. I am surprised that the finder went to so much effort in dismantling the cairn and even more surprised that they admitted to it.

 

BC

[Lactodorum]

Sigh!!!! You do your best to prevent this sort of thing then.....

[+t.a.folk]

If this is the case, can somebody please tell me WHY my Bothy & The Cairn cache was totally taken apart, even though I had stated in capital letters that the cairn nedn't be touched?!

 

Maybe because the finders do not know ths significance of Cairns.

And using the words

"I had stated in capitol letters that the cairn nedn't be touched "

is not tha same as the words I have just read on your cache details namely:-

"***YOU DO NOT NEED TO TAKE THE CAIRN APART TO FIND THE FILM CANNISTER !!!***"

[+sTeamTraen]

One thing that might help (with 20/20 hindsight, natch) would be to make the cache into a multi or mystery. That way you reduce the number of people who set out to find it "totally paperless".

 

I have a PQ with lots of unfound caches that I then upload to my GPSr. If I find myself near one, and it's a traditional, I may well go for it on the off chance. If WAP is working and I can get hints etc that's nice, but not essential. OTOH I don't think many people would set out for a mystery or multi without instructions (at least, not more than once. )

[+Boneychest & Catsuey]

It's not paperless caching that's the problem - its folk ignoring the rules and ripping cairns apart Anyway, how many 'paper' cachers decrypt the clues and print out all the spoilers before setting out for a day's caching?

[+Stuey]

how many 'paper' cachers ............... print out all the spoilers...........

Same goes for paperless cachers... Until SpoilerSync it was quite difficult on a large batch of caches. I suspect a majority of paperless cachers don't have access to the spoiler images. Hints that refer to a spoiler image are a tad disappointing in my opinion.

[+MeIsMook]

Maybe because  the finders do not know ths significance of Cairns.

 

 

Now thats an interesting one..... As someone who worked for the National Trust in the Lake District, it was part of my job to dismantle Cairns. They would be left allown if they had been there for years or were of some actual use, other than that the NT's policy where I worked was to dismantle any new Cairns that sprung up out of nowhere. It was amazing how fast new cairns would pop up all over the place in the space of a few months....

 

So you see all Cairns are not created equal!

[+Pharisee]

Last summer I was privileged enough to climb Ben Macdui with a group of Scottish cachers. Among our number were a Cairngorm Park Ranger and a member of the Cairngorm Mountain Rescue Team. On the way back from the peak, we came across a newly built cairn, probably 6 or 7 feet high and 4 or 5 feet in diameter at its base. It had obviously taken someone a considerable time and no little effort to construct it. The Ranger and the MRT member immediately went over to it and totally dismantled it in a few short minutes. I believe the reason was that the cairn was not ‘official’ and was not shown on any maps. It was destroyed because in bad weather, snow, fog, whatever, a walker or climber might come across it and assume that it WAS one of the cairns marked on the map and make a possibly fatal navigational decision based on that incorrect assumption.

Moral….. Don’t build a cairns where there wasn’t one before

[Shep, Seren & Tess Dog]

I will be using the phrase 'Dry Stone Wally' to describe anyone who's failed to read the cache page properly (I guess we're all guilty of that once in a while) or who gets destructive in pursuit of a cache (I pulled up some grass yesterday looking for one - but it'll grow back).

 

Thanks for introducing me to the term

I dunno how that letter 'Y' got in there! I've only just noticed it. I was going to edit it, but then changed my mind...I think its quite a good description of people who do this actually!

Ok, so maybe I could have phrased 'You do not need to take the cairn apart' a bit better, but you would really have to see the area first.It is only a teeny weeny clearing, & there are a few large rocks scattered within 1 or 2 foot of the cairn...surely it would have made more sense to have taken a peek under them first rather than immediatley taking it apart? Im at a loss really as to how specific I have to be! I may as well have just taken a huuuuge can of paint up there & painted a humungous 'X' marks the spot on top of the rock, that way no one would have been in any doubt!

Anyhoo...I don't really have to worry about a spoiler pic or a cryptic clue anymore...the FTF-ers have sucessfully managed to tell the whole Geocaching nation where the cannister is,by mentioning it in their log...doh!!

 

Im in total agreement with regards to removing new cairns that spring up...these can be a real danger.

S.x

Edited January 18, 2006 by Shep, Seren & Tess Dog

[+wildlifewriter]

I dunno how that letter 'Y' got in there!   I've only just noticed it. I was going to edit it, but then changed my mind...I think its quite a good description of people who do this actually!

It certainly is - and, like SP, I fully intend to appropriate it at the earliest opportunity.

 

Ok, so maybe I could have phrased 'You do not need to take the cairn apart' a bit better, but you would really have to see the area first

It wouldn't have made any difference. Stupid people will do stupid things, no matter what wording they encounter. And people (stupid or otherwise) will still attempt the cache without reading the page in full, first. There's not much that can be done about this.

 

-Wlw

[markandlynn]

Cultural difference

Very interesting reading the difference in opinions from the other side of the pond.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Cultural difference

Very interesting reading the difference in opinions from the other side of the pond.

One of the reasons I try my best not to post onto the American ran forums, is because of the way that topic is being treated. If they don't like what the OP has suggested, then they gang up and slander them.

 

I suppose with the attitude that they have in that particular thread, there stone walls won't get to be as old as ours. Now that is a pity.

[nobby.nobbs]

they don't have any heritage that's more than a couple of hundred years old so don't appreciate that what they have would be good if kept.

their loss.

 

just so long as they don't come over here with that attitude.

[+Firth of Forth]

We do have to accept that there are cultural differences. Generally, in the US, new=better; history=american history; walls are simply walls. While the historic argument might not go down well over there, the one about a wall falling down on top of you if you pull out a stone ought to!

[JackiePenn]

It is unlikely this is not the first time this cairn (and all the others of it ilk) have been demolished and rebuilt over the centuries. But in this instance it is directly related to a geocache and a geocacher. Is it not the case that the activity of Geocaching is ultimately to blame? (not geocaching.com/Groundspeak itself)

 

If there's blame , there's fault, if there's fault. there's flaws.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Last summer I was privileged enough to climb Ben Macdui with a group of Scottish cachers. Among our number were a Cairngorm Park Ranger and a member of the Cairngorm Mountain Rescue Team. On the way back from the peak, we came across a newly built cairn, probably 6 or 7 feet high and 4 or 5 feet in diameter at its base. It had obviously taken someone a considerable time and no little effort to construct it. The Ranger and the MRT member immediately went over to it and totally dismantled it in a few short minutes. I believe the reason was that the cairn was not ‘official’ and was not shown on any maps. It was destroyed because in bad weather, snow, fog, whatever, a walker or climber might come across it and assume that it WAS one of the cairns marked on the map and make a possibly fatal navigational decision based on that incorrect assumption.

Moral….. Don’t build a cairns where there wasn’t one before 

Cairn Before!!

 

 

Cairn No More!!

 

 

Photo's courtesy of roolku.