Cache In Off-limts Area

[+Blue Bomb]

Today I came across a cache in an Ohio State Wildlife Area. Caches are not allowed in those, so I got three options:

 

1) Let it go

2) Email the owner

3) point it out to the local approver

 

What should I do?

 

I would really like some input from Leprechauns, but anybody's opinion would be greatly appreciated.

[+sbell111]

Option 3. Your approver will know if permission was somehow obtained. If it was not, it is in the games best interest if it is archived and removed.

[+Harmony Smurf]

I agree, notify the approver. They can deal with the owner if permission was not obtained.

[+Magoonies]

As much as it pains me to say it (because it SHOULD be allowed) you gotta point it out. Of course, that wouldn't stop me from visiting and logging it first . My take is that I would give the person who placed it a chance to say "my bad" before involving the administrator. Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake. If I inadvertantly violate I rule I didn't know about, I would prefer a chance to fix it as a gentleman.

[+GEO.JOE]

Contact the owner first. It is their cache and they are the person that is responsible for getting permission for it and they will know if they did that or not. If they have not gotten permission and they refuse to do the right thing then you should contact the Admin. The Admins have enough to do as it is and there is no need to involve them if you can contact the owner.

GEO.JOE

[+Confucius' Cat]

I have posted a few SBA's and as yet I believe there is at least a 95% hard feelings rate. Typical response is "this game sucks and I'll archive all my caches then".

 

We really need a change in the SBA posting system. The SBA should go to a reviewer and NOT be seen on the cache page at all.

 

Then the reviewer could evaluate the situation and make whatever investigation and take whatever action is necessary.

 

If the reviewer found the situation unfounded, the owner would never know about it at all.

 

If the reviewer needs information from the owner, the poster's name need not be given.

 

SBAs would NOT be anonymous, just the name not revealed to the caache owner.

 

Oh, and it seems a cache owner can delete an SBA anyway, so what good is it, as it is currently implemented, if the owner doesn't want it known that someone thinks there is a problem?

[+Quiggle]

We really need a change in the SBA posting system.  The SBA should go to a reviewer and NOT be seen on the cache page at all.

 

Then the reviewer could evaluate the situation and make whatever investigation and take whatever action is necessary.

 

If the reviewer found the situation unfounded, the owner would never know about it at all.

 

If the reviewer needs information from the owner, the poster's name need not be given.

 

SBAs would NOT be anonymous, just the name not revealed to the caache owner.

 

Oh, and it seems a cache owner can delete an SBA anyway, so what good is it, as it is currently implemented, if the owner doesn't want it known that someone thinks there is a problem?

You can send an email to the reviewer through their profile. On recent caches it would likely be via the Publish log at the bottom of the cache page, assuming the cache owner hadn't deleted it. More than likely it is still there--I've got one in my area that always deletes it.

 

As a reviewer I would appreciate a cacher giving me a heads-up, either via email or SBA. If it is truly an off-limits area, the cache shouldn't be there. Even if the cache owner deletes the SBA from the cache page, the reviewer still receives a copy to be able to check on the cache.

[Keystone]

Hi, I looked at the caches you did yesterday, and a fine day of caching it was! None of these raised any obvious issues for me. There was a canal towpath cache, a cemetery cache and a suburban park cache that I quickly ruled out. Then there was the Piedmont Puzzler Cache and a whole series of caches around Tappan Lake. All of these were placed with express permission from the Muskingum Water Conservancy District. I recall giving geocacher slotrek a pretty hard time over his series of caches. He is to be commended for his work with the officials in his area. Finally, there was one cache stated to be in a public hunting area in Harrison County. I checked the ODNR maps for that when publishing the cache, and it is not ODNR managed property. The only ODNR hunting area in Harrison County is several miles to the east.

 

So, if you could please write me an e-mail with your specific concerns, I'd sure be curious to see which cache was troubling you. It is always possible that I could've missed something.

[+DocDiTTo]

We really need a change in the SBA posting system. The SBA should go to a reviewer and NOT be seen on the cache page at all.

I half agree with this. I think an SBA should be posted to the cache page, so other potential finders have a chance to see what's up and put on the brakes. If a cache turned out to be placed on private property, I'd want to know about it as a potential finder - BEFORE I make the trip there. An SBA notice will do that.

 

However, I also agree that SBA's should not automatically list the name of the cacher who posted them on the cache page. Anonimity should be an optional. Their name should always be available to admins of course. It would allow for more honest SBA logs while preventing the abuse that complete anonimity would bring.

 

I've found caches placed by other local cachers I know that should have been archived for various reasons. However, I'd never post an SBA on them because these folks are my friends, and I wouldn't want to risk getting them mad at me. In the few cases where something needed to be done, I emailed an approver and it was taken care of. that really defeats the purpose of the SBA feature though. To really be useful, SBA logs should allow posters to protect their identity from non-admins, so they can speak the truth without making their friends and neighbors angry.

[+Renegade Knight]

Today I came across a cache in an Ohio State Wildlife Area. Caches are not allowed in those, so I got three options:

 

1) Let it go

2) Email the owner

3) point it out to the local approver

 

What should I do?

 

I would really like some input from Leprechauns, but anybody's opinion would be greatly appreciated.

I think Keystone did a great job covering the bases here as an approver so all I can do is expand a bit from a cache owners standpoint.

 

First, do you have explicit knowledge that caches are banned by that entity? For example I have verbal permission to place a cache in lands co-administered by the NPS and the BLM in a national monument. At first blush you might think NPS and their no cache policy and slam the panic button. But as cache owner I'm responsible and not you.

 

Second even if you do have explicit knowlege that caches are banned by that entity do you have first hand knowledge that they don't have permission? A general policy does not mean a specific exception can't exist.

 

Third if you have done your homework contant the cache owner and ask. Why? It's their cache not this sites. They are responsible.

 

Fourth if the land manager has chewed your butt over the cache (which may only mean a low level flunky who doesn't know the boss said yes, or it could mean the flunky said yes and the boss said no, or a dozen other thing) then you should do something. I'd pull the cache and contact the cache owner so they can sort it out. I'm not a fan of getting my butt chewed on a cache owners behalf.

 

As a cache owner I do not like people second guessing the work I've put into my caches. It's not their job to cross check my permission, guess if the cache is on private property, lecture me on the screws in the tree or a dozen other things they could take it upon themselves to do. What I do want to know is if a social trail is forming, if the log book is full, if a park ranger chewed you out and so on.

 

Locally we have some lands clearly identified in a way that looks very similar to the fish and wildlife service. The refuges ban caching, this area I could probably get permission to put a cache in even though it's private. What it looks like it is and what it really is are two differnet things. When I took a closer look at the logo I had to laugh. They have a political strategy and it's evidenced by the careful work they have done to make their lands look like an official wildlife area.

[+Renegade Knight]

I have posted a few SBA's and as yet I believe there is at least a 95% hard feelings rate. Typical response is "this game sucks and I'll archive all my caches then".

 

We really need a change in the SBA posting system. The SBA should go to a reviewer and NOT be seen on the cache page at all.

 

Then the reviewer could evaluate the situation and make whatever investigation and take whatever action is necessary.

 

If the reviewer found the situation unfounded, the owner would never know about it at all.

 

If the reviewer needs information from the owner, the poster's name need not be given.

 

SBAs would NOT be anonymous, just the name not revealed to the caache owner.

 

Oh, and it seems a cache owner can delete an SBA anyway, so what good is it, as it is currently implemented, if the owner doesn't want it known that someone thinks there is a problem?

An SBA is a slap in the face to the cache owner. It's a last resort. If you know first hand the cache should be archived pronto and the owner will not do it, then I'd post a SBA log.

 

If the cache has a string of 200 skunks and the owner is MIA and doesn't respond to emails then I'd post an SBA. In this case I've never had to though. Someone else did it long before I would have.

 

I've deleted an SBA before. However it's the posting of the SBA that generates the notice. So deleting it doesn't change that a reviewer will look at it. It just makes you feel better when a busybody who can't even figure out how to put good coordinates on their own caches says your cache should be archived.

[robertlipe]

An SBA is a slap in the face to the cache owner.  It's a last resort.  [ ...  ]  It just makes you feel better when a busybody who can't even figure out how to put good coordinates on their own caches says your cache should be archived.

Ahem.

 

That's not at all what an SBA is. It's not a notice that you're a busbody and can't operate a GPS. It isn't a pesonal affront. It's a way to contact the owner, seekers, and an admin - in one operation - that a cache needs attention.

 

If the forum doms would quit making an SBA to be bigger than it is, it wouldn't be bigger than it is. Perhaps if the name didn't contain the word "archived" it wouldn't get as much vitrol. If a cache is a multi but labelled a traditional, there simply isn't a better way to notify the owner (that can't fix it anyway) the admin (that can fix it) and potential seekers in ond swoop that it should be changed.

 

I'm totally hip that "I can't find it" doesn't mean "SBA", but I think RK's generalization above is incorrect.

[+briansnat]

That's not at all what an SBA is. It's not a notice that you're a busbody and can't operate a GPS. It isn't a pesonal affront. It's a way to contact the owner, seekers, and an admin - in one operation - that a cache needs attention.

 

If someone logged an SBA on one of my caches without first contacting me directly, I'd be mildly pissed.

[+Packanack]

Question: If nothing comes back from owner after E Mail, what is the next step or should the cacher just ignore it. Specifically related to cache

GCJ28J no response after 4 months, hider last visited 9 months ago, single hide, no active finds.

 

It is a great place to go for a nice walk but should it remain as an active cache site even though the cache is gone. I went there Columbus Day, I see someone went looking yesterday.

I suspect it should be a SBA.

Edited January 17, 2006 by Packanack

[+jwigner]

I think one thing to bear in mind when looking at a cache is to make sure that all possible paths to the cache have been covered.

 

My friend and I were looking for a 4/2 in Dallas a few months ago. The first time we drove to the area, there wasn't anything posted, but we weren't comfortable with the conditions. The next time we drove to the location, the city had posted No Trespassing signs at each driveway down into the park.

 

The lingering question in our minds was: "Is there another way to the cache that we can't see?" After all, it was a 4/2. We contacted the owner and asked. In this case, we were going the right way, and he archived the cache as being non-reachable.

 

There have been numerous times, on the other hand, where I've looked for a cache, been able to drive to within a hundred feet of it, and realize that I would have to either go over fences or enter private property to find it. In those cases, part of the fun is figuring out where to park, and how to find the cache.

 

Let's keep the discussion on topic and not go off into SBA-land. In short, my answer is: Try all possible ways in, and if I can't figure it out, contact the owner.

[+edscott]

That's not at all what an SBA is. It's not a notice that you're a busbody and can't operate a GPS. It isn't a pesonal affront. It's a way to contact the owner, seekers, and an admin - in one operation - that a cache needs attention.

 

If someone logged an SBA on one of my caches without first contacting me directly, I'd be mildly pissed.

Yes, me too, but I bet if there were 5 dnfs over a 5 month period with no finds in between you would go check... It is when people do not respond to DNFs and do not answer emails that a SBA is reasonable and proper action.

[+Thrak]

I once posted a SBA log. The cache had been muggled and "temporarily" disabled. It had been disabled for 6 months. I figure that is plenty long enough to go replace a film can. I worried at the time if it would create hard feelings on the part of the cache owner but I would imagine the admin contacted him at that point and gave him the option of replacing and reactivating the cache. He archived it instead.

 

I think a lot of folks feel uncomfortable posting a SBA log. I'd only do it under the type of circumstances above.

[+vree]

Question: If nothing comes back from owner after E Mail, what is the next step or should the cacher just ignore it. Specifically related to cache

GCJ28J no response after 4 months, hider last visited 9 months ago, single hide, no active finds.

 

It is a great place to go for a nice walk but should it remain as an active cache site even though the cache is gone. I went there Columbus Day, I see someone went looking yesterday.

I suspect it should be a SBA.

hit the SBA. kudos for trying to email the owner. the cache seems to be missing, so it should be archived. if it's a nice place, you could attempt to adopt the cache and replace the container or place another cache there once it's been archived.

[+sbell111]

... That's not at all what an SBA is.  ...  It isn't a pesonal affront.  It's a way to contact the owner, seekers, and an admin - in one operation - that a cache needs attention.

 

If the forum doms would quit making an SBA to be bigger than it is, it wouldn't be bigger than it is. ... I'm totally hip that "I can't find it" doesn't mean "SBA", but I think RK's generalization above is incorrect.

As one of my best friends likes to say, 'Perception is reality'. Whether it should be that way, or not, there is a certain stigma to an SBA. You and I both know people who would go into a tizzy if someone put an SBA on their caches and it has absolutely nothing to do with the forums.

 

I am concerned about your statement that the SBA is simply a way to easly send a message to the cache owner, other seekers, and an admin. You see, there is a time and place for each of these entities to be contacted, jumping to send them all at once only furthers the insult. In fact, it kind of seems like the easy way out.

 

The fact is, there are better ways to let each of these entities know of a potential problem. Small issues can simply be discussed in a DNF or note. Bigger issues, such as the one discussed in this thread, would necessitate communication with the approver or the cache owner. In my opinion, however, this situation still wouldn't require an SBA because you still don't know for sure if approval was obtained. The owner and approver will know this info, however, which is why I gave the advice that I did.

 

Edit: sorry for the spindling, I was trying to go for clarity.

Edited January 17, 2006 by sbell111

[+Blue Bomb]

Thanks to everyone for their response, but since we are drifting off topic, I'm closing this thread.