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Stop Dpm'ing Average Caches!


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You know, I hadn't really given this any thought until it was pointed out in this thread.

Maybe a "stroller icon" will also discourage those "extreme cacher" with 4-digit find counts who go to the simpler more "family oriented" caches just to up their find count and then insultingly log their find "DPM"!    :unsure:

When I first read it, I was thinking, "Hey, I'll probably have a 4-digit find count by the end of the year. What do I write when I get to an 'easy' cache?"

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, I realize that in my mind, some caches are "beneath me" as a cacher. This isn't really a healthy way to think about them, but it does illustrate a point. As I get more experienced, it takes more to make a cache worth the effort for me to find it. Just yesterday I spotted a fake bolt cache among about 100 other bolts. I can see where it would take a newbie some time to figure it out, and possibly several trips or hints. What did I write in the log? Something like, "Spotted it right away" which doesn't really do the hide justice.

 

Have you noticed yourself doing the same thing in your logs? What used to be a story about how you looked everywhere just becomes "yet another clever container" or "DPM"?

 

I do realize that a large part of geocaching is about your own personal experience, so I'm not suggesting you make up something just for the sake of the log. What I am saying is that maybe us long-time cachers should be a bit more objective about the logs we write. Give an appropriate log for the cache, even if you've seen one just like it before.

 

(of course, if a cache really does stink, your log should reflect that too)

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Now that I'm thinking about it, I realize that in my mind, some caches are "beneath me" as a cacher. This isn't really a healthy way to think about them, but it does illustrate a point. As I get more experienced, it takes more to make a cache worth the effort for me to find it. Just yesterday I spotted a fake bolt cache among about 100 other bolts. I can see where it would take a newbie some time to figure it out, and possibly several trips or hints. What did I write in the log? Something like, "Spotted it right away" which doesn't really do the hide justice.

 

Have you noticed yourself doing the same thing in your logs? What used to be a story about how you looked everywhere just becomes "yet another clever container" or "DPM"?

 

I do realize that a large part of geocaching is about your own personal experience, so I'm not suggesting you make up something just for the sake of the log. What I am saying is that maybe us long-time cachers should be a bit more objective about the logs we write. Give an appropriate log for the cache, even if you've seen one just like it before.

 

(of course, if a cache really does stink, your log should reflect that too)

After 741 finds, and 59 hides, I became quite picky on which caches i'll go after.

 

I weed out all caches from certain hiders, I have created a "special" Bookmark Cache at your own risk! I also pick special caches for my milestones.

 

If the cache is from a newbie, and it looks like they put a bit of effort into their hide, I make sure I leave an encouraging "found it" log. If I stumble upon a hide or location type that I dislike, I make very short logs. The absence of a nice log, is a good indicator to future cachers, that the cache sucks.

 

My main focus lately is to hide great caches in great locations. The logs I receive from happy cachers make it all worthwhile.

Edited by Kit Fox
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I'm not near the 4 digit mark yet, but once I did a cache and thought "This is just the lamest cache anybody could have conceived, I hope it dies a quick death" Of course I just posted a simple log, no editorial. Then laters others were posting about what a good cache it was.

 

That's when I realized that..........I don't know what I realized.

 

It is and was, in my opinion, a lame cache.

 

oh well, nevermind.

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I thought the first lamp post micro was ingenious. Newbies still do until we tell them it is politically incorrect to think of them in a positive manner.

That's right. We need to keep educating those lowly newbies on the right way to enjoy this game :unsure: . And I think tellling them their caches suck is a giant step in the right direction.

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I thought the first lamp post micro was ingenious.  Newbies still do until we tell them it is politically incorrect to think of them in a positive manner.

dadgum straight it was. My first lamp post took us 45 min and we almost walked away skunked, but someone lifted the skirt just in case it did lift and we found it.

 

In the words of Forest Gump "after that Shrimpin was easy..."

 

I'm going to break the mold and agree with Sax here. EAsy for me isn't always easy for everone else, and vice versa. Plus a great day caching ending in a DPM cache still moves that cache into the good catagory while a crappy day ending in a great cache whem I'm just not in the frigging mood is still a crappy cache. None of that is the fault of the cache hider. They don't need my bad day spilling over, though my great day spilling over is fine.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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I'm glad DMP'ing isn't done in our area. I think it's a little rude. I tend to leave logs that are accurate representations of my experience. I've left logs like: "I've found a lot of caches hidden in this manner so it was an easy find." For your fake bolt example above, I'd have probably said something along the lines of: "Nice camo job, I'm surprised I found it so quickly."

 

--Marky

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I'm glad DMP'ing isn't done in our area. I think it's a little rude. I tend to leave logs that are accurate representations of my experience. I've left logs like: "I've found a lot of caches hidden in this manner so it was an easy find." For your fake bolt example above, I'd have probably said something along the lines of: "Nice camo job, I'm surprised I found it so quickly."

 

--Marky

That's kinda the point though: I should be writing better logs, but I don't. That's a result of the experinces I've had caching - when you've seen the same hide done time and time again it isn't exciting. That even goes for ammo boxes in the woods (I'm not just talking about micros).

 

What I'm trying to do is increase awareness that this is happening. You don't necessarily mean to do it, but your logs reflect that it's harder and harder to be impressed. I think that's a bad thing.

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Sax, I think you make a very insightful point.

 

Although we are newbies at geocaching and still in the gung-ho phase :unsure: we *have* experienced the "starting to get bored with this" phenomenon at a Renaissance fair that we attend here in Massachusetts. To the new fair-goer, it is unique, amazing and highly entertaining. But after you've been there half a dozen times you know what to expect and it seems less worth the drive and the (not inconsiderable) expense. We get around the ennui by bringing newbies with us now. We get to see it through their eyes and it lets us relive a lot of the original pleasure.

 

For anyone who's starting to get tired/bored/unimpressed, I suggest spending some time recruiting new geocachers. Or team up with some young-uns for a clever micro hunt, night cache or other difficult hide where you can act as mentor. (Don't be too quick to provide the solution if they can't find it; remember, part of the fun is in the challenge.)

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Like most things, this issue has two views.

 

We should all be more appreciative of ANY effort to place a cache, and our logs should reflect that appreciation.

 

However, seeing the same type of cache over and over (lampost hides after the first one is the perfect example) does tend to become stultifying. In that instance, we should remember that for every new cacher, lamposts are still creative and fresh hides.

 

Becoming bored with common caches isn't all bad. It should stimulate us to be more and ever more creative with our own hides. In my own case, I hid three caches the other day. Two of them were 1/1 P&G hides on a theme. The other was my first multi-cache and utilized what I believe to be a clever first stage hide that allows it to be essentially invisible while in plain sight. Whether it's ever been used before is dubious, but it's never been seen around HERE before, so that makes it fresh for our locals. My next cache is a doozy, too. I saw an example of it a thousand miles from here, so it is again liable to be well received.

 

If you ever get so bored by the game, just quit it. OR, take it upon yourself to make it even more clever and creative. Your choice.

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I'm glad DMP'ing isn't done in our area.  I think it's a little rude.  I tend to leave logs that are accurate representations of my experience.  I've left logs like: "I've found a lot of caches hidden in this manner so it was an easy find."  For your fake bolt example above, I'd have probably said something along the lines of: "Nice camo job, I'm surprised I found it so quickly." 

 

--Marky

That's kinda the point though: I should be writing better logs, but I don't. That's a result of the experinces I've had caching - when you've seen the same hide done time and time again it isn't exciting. That even goes for ammo boxes in the woods (I'm not just talking about micros).

. . . .

That is why I liked Virtual caches . . . they were all unique. :P

 

:unsure:

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I'm glad DMP'ing isn't done in our area.  I think it's a little rude.  I tend to leave logs that are accurate representations of my experience.  I've left logs like: "I've found a lot of caches hidden in this manner so it was an easy find."  For your fake bolt example above, I'd have probably said something along the lines of: "Nice camo job, I'm surprised I found it so quickly." 

 

--Marky

That's kinda the point though: I should be writing better logs, but I don't. That's a result of the experinces I've had caching - when you've seen the same hide done time and time again it isn't exciting. That even goes for ammo boxes in the woods (I'm not just talking about micros).

. . . .

That is why I liked Virtual caches . . . they were all unique. :unsure:

 

:P

Oh boy, another plaque out in plain sight. At least they could have hidden something nearby to make me work for the find :P

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As I read this thread, words like "jaded" and "bored" came to mind. I'm not sure if that's what you're feeling, but that's what it made me think.

 

I think you make a great point Sax. You may need to allow for the fact that the more you do this, the less likely you are to be really impressed by a hide.

 

I have less than 120 finds, and I can honestly say that I have yet to find a cache that I didn't appreciate. Some are more clever than others. Some are hidden in nicer places than others, but so far, with each cache, I have appreciated the fact that someone took the time and effort to try to entertain me.

 

My only current hide is a "lame" tupperware container 350 feet off of the trail, hidden in a hollow tree. I know it sounds familiar. It is like 90,000 other caches out there. I hid it because those are the types of caches I like to find. There is no real reason to bring you to this tree, but the hike along the river is relaxing and quite beautiful if you take the time to enjoy it. I try to keep it well stocked because my children are always excited to find a cache filled with a lot of trade items. If some people are unimpressed by my lack of imagination, then so be it. There are many others that will enjoy it.

 

Having said that, if anyone EVER logs DPM on my cache(s) I'll be glad to delete their find. I wouldn't want them to re-live the horrible experience every time they look at their stats. :P

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If you choose to censor your logs because you don't agree with it, that just shows your like pettiness with requiring sanitized logs versus someone's need to DPM.

Actually, it just shows that you have little patience for petty insults and rudeness. I don't think anyone ever placed a cache just so they can be insulted. :P

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It goes beyond that. The pettiness is enough to disrupt the find count and the history of the cache over a disagreement of the content. There are other methods available to handle this issue than just a pure deletion.

 

I'll even go as far to say that deleting a disagreeable post merely shows a childish knee jerk reaction to criticism... warranted or not.

Edited by TotemLake
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We are pretty lucky that everything in our area is pretty much brand new. We hid a few when we were new and they aren't the greatest hides, but our area cachers enjoyed them. Most of us are new to the sport. Now as our area is getting more experienced we want to hide more difficult caches and would like to archive some of our old cache hides. I hate to archive them because they are good for beginners but when more experienced cachers do them their logs indicate that they aren't well thought of so we are stuck on what to do. I guess the logs on these caches are a sort of peer pressure to archive them. The logs aren't rude but they aren't great either.

 

On the other side, I think we have been leaving sub-par logs on some caches and we will try to do better. Thanks for this thread and making us aware of this.

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So you approve of the initial childish action of posting the DPM, but not the childish action of deleting it?  Hmmm...  :P

 

edit:  removed petty, political (yet witty) question.

No... Nor did I say that. Two wrongs don't make it right. I do believe censorship is not the right action. As I said, there are other ways of handling this issue. You can encrypt it. You can send a message to the finder to tame the tone. You can even prove to be the bigger person and leave it alone. Deletion is purely a childish kneejerk reaction and doesn't solve anything and it produces other problems.

Edited by TotemLake
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If you choose to censor your logs because you don't agree with it, that just shows your like pettiness with requiring sanitized logs versus someone's need to DPM.

I will have to disagree. Logging "DPM" is just wrong, in my opinion. It's an attempt to trash my cache with others who are "in the know" in the hopes that I won't understand it.

If you don't like my cache, then by all means write it in the log. Straight out. Without codes. I won't delete that. And while you're at it, you might even want to tell me why.

 

That's the key. Report what YOU experienced and explain why YOU didn't enjoy it. Don't say things like"Your cache stinks!" That is an attack and puts people on the defensive. Explain WHY you didn't like it, while keeping in mind that other cachers will like it.

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If you choose to censor your logs because you don't agree with it, that just shows your like pettiness with requiring sanitized logs versus someone's need to DPM.

I will have to disagree. Logging "DPM" is just wrong, in my opinion. It's an attempt to trash my cache with others who are "in the know" in the hopes that I won't understand it.

If you don't like my cache, then by all means write it in the log. Straight out. Without codes. I won't delete that. And while you're at it, you might even want to tell me why.

 

That's the key. Report what YOU experienced and explain why YOU didn't enjoy it. Don't say things like"Your cache stinks!" That is an attack and puts people on the defensive. Explain WHY you didn't like it, while keeping in mind that other cachers will like it.

You're proving my point. You're requiring it to be sanitized to "your" liking in order for it to be there OR it gets deleted. So... instead of using other methods, you choose to delete. Have you tried the other methods? My guess is probably not if you're so quick on the trigger.

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If you choose to censor your logs because you don't agree with it, that just shows your like pettiness with requiring sanitized logs versus someone's need to DPM.

I will have to disagree. Logging "DPM" is just wrong, in my opinion. It's an attempt to trash my cache with others who are "in the know" in the hopes that I won't understand it.

If you don't like my cache, then by all means write it in the log. Straight out. Without codes. I won't delete that. And while you're at it, you might even want to tell me why.

 

That's the key. Report what YOU experienced and explain why YOU didn't enjoy it. Don't say things like"Your cache stinks!" That is an attack and puts people on the defensive. Explain WHY you didn't like it, while keeping in mind that other cachers will like it.

That is a good point . . . some people might like the Altoids tin next to a shopping center sign above a very noisy freeway on the same trail where a homeless person is living. :unsure:

 

There is a certain amount of "excitement" that goes along with seeking a cache like that, and just because I didn't like it doesn't mean someone else won't. :P

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If you choose to censor your logs because you don't agree with it, that just shows your like pettiness with requiring sanitized logs versus someone's need to DPM.

I will have to disagree. Logging "DPM" is just wrong, in my opinion. It's an attempt to trash my cache with others who are "in the know" in the hopes that I won't understand it.

If you don't like my cache, then by all means write it in the log. Straight out. Without codes. I won't delete that. And while you're at it, you might even want to tell me why.

 

That's the key. Report what YOU experienced and explain why YOU didn't enjoy it. Don't say things like"Your cache stinks!" That is an attack and puts people on the defensive. Explain WHY you didn't like it, while keeping in mind that other cachers will like it.

You're proving my point. You're requiring it to be sanitized to "your" liking in order for it to be there OR it gets deleted. So... instead of using other methods, you choose to delete. Have you tried the other methods? My guess is probably not if you're so quick on the trigger.

I have never deleted a log. I stand by my posts. If you don't like my cache, have the stones to state it in plain English rather than try to sneak it past me.

 

Besides you can always ask WHY your log got deleted. Then I can tell you. In code. Your log...DPM.

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I have never deleted a log. I stand by my posts. If you don't like my cache, have the stones to state it in plain English rather than try to sneak it past me. 

 

Besides you can always ask WHY your log got deleted. Then I can tell you. In code. Your log...DPM.

You indicated you would.

 

Trinity's Crew Posted: Jan 14 2006, 03:32 PM 

 

Thread Killer

 

Posts: 301

Joined: 5-June 01

 

Having said that, if anyone EVER logs DPM on my cache(s) I'll be glad to delete their find. I wouldn't want them to re-live the horrible experience every time they look at their stats. 

 

So, based on the fact you stand by your posts, I can take you at your word and at the level you wish to put yourself? It's still kneejerk and it's still childish if you have failed to use the other methods I indicated above...

 

TotemLake Posted on Jan 14 2006, 04:53 PM

...Two wrongs don't make it right. I do believe censorship is not the right action. ...You can encrypt it. You can send a message to the finder to tame the tone. You can even prove to be the bigger person and leave it alone.

 

The problems I also previously indicated...

 

TotemLake Posted on Jan 14 2006, 04:34 PM

...is enough to disrupt the find count and the history of the cache

 

I stand by my posts too, and they are consistent.

Edited by TotemLake
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I know that I will not change some peoples minds but caching is about the whole experience. Finding the new page, reading about it, going to the area and walking to the cache area, seeing the sights along the way. getting to that cache and discovering its hiding place, going through the cache and seeing what other people left behind. Reading the log and seeing what everyone wrote before you. Remember why you did this in the first place and maybe the caches won't seem so "lame"

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Very well said. :unsure:

 

That is so very true. When I first started caching, I found some wet and moldy Gladware containers that absolutely thrilled me. :P

 

"Yee Haw!! I found it." I exclaimed, and probably not to myself. :P

 

Those first caches that I now know were really bad were so cool because they got me out of the house and showed me some places I didn't know existed.

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This thread isn't about the cache owner's reaction to less than exciting logs. It isn't even about lame caches! This thread is about our tendencies to think of average caches as less than they are. If you want to discuss lame caches, the ones that actually deserve a DPM log, open a new thread. Same goes if you want to discuss what to do if someone logs DPM on one of your own caches.

 

What can we do to help ourselves and other cachers treat the average cache as average?

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the ones that actually deserve a DPM log,

That was my point. I thought it was DPM, others did not.

 

Forget the editorials, state the facts without attitude. If the cache is within guidelines let your posting stand on it's own merit.

 

Then there is no concern about DPM'ing average caches.

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the ones that actually deserve a DPM log,

That was my point. I thought it was DPM, others did not.

 

Forget the editorials, state the facts without attitude. If the cache is within guidelines let your posting stand on it's own merit.

 

Then there is no concern about DPM'ing average caches.

Didn't you read the original post in this thread? I inadvertantly posted a DPM on a cache that was actually a clever hide. That's what I want to avoid in the future. My log was honest, but it didn't reflect the true spirit of my experience.

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What does DPM mean???

I think it has something to do with briansnat getting the crabs in France. Dadgum search is still broken. :P

That might explain Brian's many 'Clam' caches. Which one did I do today? The Clam's Paw?

Back on topic: I've seen some pretty poor caches (IMHO). The worst probably in the parking area of a minor strip mall on a major highway. There seem, usually, to be vehicles parked in front of the cache. There is absolutely nothing interesting about the location, nor the cache. But I logged it anyway! For those, my worst log is SLTNLN. Though I have seen: "Thanks, I think." and similar logs.

My mean logs I save for caches where the coordinates are deliberately off (okay, maybe he had a bad satellite day, but 170' off is not good.) Or for really ugly places with broken glass and/or used condoms.

One of my best logs was "This is the second ugliest place I've ever found a cache." The cache owner got a chuckle (and wanted to know which one was worse.) (That was the one with the very large rats running around.)

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...Now that I'm thinking about it, I realize that in my mind, some caches are "beneath me" as a cacher. This isn't really a healthy way to think about them, but it does illustrate a point. As I get more experienced, it takes more to make a cache worth the effort for me to find it. Just yesterday I spotted a fake bolt cache among about 100 other bolts. I can see where it would take a newbie some time to figure it out, and possibly several trips or hints. What did I write in the log? Something like, "Spotted it right away" which doesn't really do the hide justice.

 

Have you noticed yourself doing the same thing in your logs? What used to be a story about how you looked everywhere just becomes "yet another clever container" or "DPM"?

It's not your (my) duty to do justice in a cache log. "Spotted it right away" is not an injustice to a cache, even if everybody this side of the Mississippi has had a hard time finding it. It is merely notification of your level of caching.

 

DPM is rude, but those who would write such comments are rude in general, unless maybe they're just having a bad day. Personally, I have never seen the clam thing in any logs.

 

I feel the same way you do; I am above some caches. But I usually end up, at some time, logging them anyway. When I log those kinds of caches, and in fact all caches, and in most all communication in which I partake, I use one simple guideline.

 

In a word: Respect. :unsure::P

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Hey Sax, I guess I’m not sure how you want me to be totally on topic, but I am a fairly new cacher and my hides are what I would consider average, but a 4 digit finder would consider them lame. They were hides that I would have enjoyed finding, and were not placed to confound experienced cachers.. They have a one star difficulty rating, so why are the 4 digit cachers even wasting their time looking for them? Which brings to mind something else I don’t understand, why the emphasis on location when the high number finders are doing 40 or more in a day, they couldn’t be doing it because they are enjoying the views. IMHO.

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Hey Sax, I guess I’m not sure how you want me to be totally on topic, but I am a fairly new cacher and my hides are what I would consider average, but a 4 digit finder would consider them lame. They were hides that I would have enjoyed finding, and were not placed to confound experienced cachers.. They have a one star difficulty rating, so why are the 4 digit cachers even wasting their time looking for them? Which brings to mind something else I don’t understand, why the emphasis on location when the high number finders are doing 40 or more in a day, they couldn’t be doing it because they are enjoying the views. IMHO.

Some people are in it for the numbers. Some of us like to find all caches in a certain area (can't have an unfound cache too close to home, now can we?)

 

Anyway, Average hides are just fine (literally) and us experienced cachers should not treat them as lame just because they are average.

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I've had some experience with this type of internal interpretation - how we ourselves view things. I've been a magician for 30 years now, and one of my acts I've been doing for most of that time. There have been times where it has bored me to tears, but then I think, it's new to the audience. And as long as I don't act bored, the audience still enjoys the act and I can have fun with that.

 

The same is happening with geocaching - some of us have seen it all many times, but it may be new to the hider and is new to the newcomers. So when (if) we become aware of this attitude, we need to work at not letting it color our responses. We need to rediscover the fun that this activity is.

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Certainly if someone had a bad experience or found a cache to be unsafe or inappropriate a log to indicate that would be correct. However, a demeaning, insulting or abusive remark is grounds for a deleted log. If anything else to discourage discontent and a negative representation of this game. I would delete such a log with an email to the finder of why it was deleted and an invitation to re log their find in an adult responsible manner. If that offends the person who feels they are somehow above basic social etiquette then offend I will. No one is too good or too experienced to be courteous. -RB

Edited by Roamingbull
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I have over 1400 caches within 30 miles of me and I have yet to chase 10% of them. I've learned not to turn it into a numbers game, but rather a game of new adventure each time I go out.

 

Early on when I first started this hobby, I realized I was going to come to a point I would be burned out and reach the been there done that stage. How to prevent that from happening was key to my investment of time and money.

 

Many years ago as a kid, I loved hiking through the canyons of San Diego. I would go every weekend on the same trail with my dog. Yah it was the same tired trail, but watching my dog treat it as it was something new to discover everytime taught me a valued lesson I've carried onto this current interest.

 

I have learned to love hiking again. I have learned to go after what the area has to offer me rather than what the cache has to offer me. The cache has become secondary to the hike rather than the other way around. In essence, I'm taking the time to taste the salmon berries, smell the flowers, enjoy the sights.

 

That's how you get around the DPMs on the average caches. Find something about getting there that interests you other than just the cache and write about that. Return your now narrowed perspective back to the event and not the box.

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