Adding A Cache Owner Disclaimer

[+Jimbogeo Team]

I have just recently hid my first 4 caches & I am very excited with this part of Geocaching.

 

Recently though I have noticed that some cache owners have added a disclaimer to the bottom of their listing stating that you take responsibility for your own actions & they are not responsible in any way for any one who searches for their cache.

 

Does anyone feel that this is necessary? Does the Official Geocache Disclaimer at the top of our listings cover us or just Geocaching.com?

 

Maybe I worry too much but could someone take legal action if they were injured, arrested or just plain drop dead while searching for one of my caches?

[+sbell111]

The site's disclaimer only protects the site. Actually, no disclaimer ever really protects anyone, it only makes it less likely to be taken to the cleaners.

[+Lone Duck]

Perish the thought. If that occurs, it could kill the sport. Everybody would have to sign release forms then.

[tossedsalad]

Of course anyone can take legal action against you for placing a cache. That does not mean they would prevail, but the legal system is there for them to use. I don't have a clue about what the law says about your responsibility by placing the cache. But the law is vague enough that a claim can be made. It would be up to a judge and jury to decide if the claim had merit.

 

Does anyone think it is even remotely likely that a cacher would try to hold a cache owner responsible for any harm or damages they suffered while caching?

[+briansnat]

Does anyone think it is even remotely likely that a cacher would try to hold a cache owner responsible for any harm or damages they suffered while caching?

 

Yes.

[+Confucius' Cat]

And likewise, it is quite probable that some time or other a cache hider will be sued for the actions of an unspecified cache hunter that probably would not have been there had the cache not been hidden.

 

We are a sue happy society. Anything goes. And all the disclaimers in the world won't change it.

[tossedsalad]

Ok, let me ask it this way. Does anyone know of a suit brought on by a cacher against a cache owner?

 

We can all speculate about how litigious our society is, but what are the facts?

[+The Leprechauns]

The good news: having followed these forums faithfully since 2002, I cannot recall a single discussion of a cache finder vs. cache owner lawsuit, insurance claim, etc. That doesn't mean there hasn't been one, but I would think that something like that would have appeared in a forum thread somewhere.

 

The bad news: As a lawyer, I am not about to dispense legal advice on this issue in a public forum, and no other geocaching lawyer is likely to do so either. My only advice is to speak with your own personal lawyer and/or your insurance agent. This is especially important because laws vary from one jurisdiction to another.

[benji55545]

i think it is widely accepted that geocachers are responsible for their own actions when attempted caches, but so many people are involved in the hobby that undoubtably a lawsuit will be filed eventually.

and i think they would win. sadly.

 

ben

[+Alan2]

I suppose if some malicious cacher hid a cache near a cliff knowlingly not letting anyone know, or deliberately undervalued a 3, 4 or 5 as a 1 in terrain and someone fell off the cliff, or deliberately put the finder in an unreported danger, then a case could be proved.

[+Team Cotati]

I suppose if some malicious cacher hid a cache near a cliff knowlingly not letting anyone know, or deliberately undervalued a 3, 4 or 5 as a 1 in terrain and someone fell off the cliff, or deliberately put the finder in an unreported danger, then a case could be proved.

And anyone who was to do such a foolish thing deserves exactly what they get. I mean you could sneak around some night and change a few one way street signs to point in the opposite direction. That is a foolish, irresponsible and dangerous thing to do. There are court rooms that exist for just such people to get their just due for such acts. The activity of geocaching has nothing to do with such actions and their legal consequences any more than driving your car might.

[+Alan2]

I'm glad you agree.

[+Team Maccabee]

I'm not going to give any legal advice, just common sense advice...

 

Don't draw people to an area that you know could be dangerous without full disclosure on the cache page as to the nature of the danger. And think before you place a cache.

 

As an example, yesterday I attempted to place a cache underneath a very large grocery store sign. It was in a place that a cacher would look if he/she saw the spot (like a lampskirt micro). Fortunately, when I attempted to place the cache, I felt electricity flow through one then both hands (i.e. fingertip touching the sign column to the fingertip touching the ground). It wasn't too much more than licking a 9V as a kid. I obviously did not place the cache in that location. I thought about placing it in an alternative area nearby with an explicit warning on the cache page, but it really wasn't worth the risk of someone sticking their hand in the wrong place, esp. for a mediocre hide. And, of course, I told the management. This is all in a different thread.

 

But the point I wanted to make is that through hiding a geocache, the cache owner is bringing all the potential finders to that area, so has some responsibility to make sure no one is going to get hurt looking for the cache. Before placing the cache, scope out the area and make sure there aren't any covert dangers and that any overt dangers (especially to kids that may accompany cachers) are explicitly spelled out on the cache page. And don't create any dangers, such as an ammocan precariously up in a tree where it could fall unexpectedly.

 

Team Maccabee

Edited January 9, 2006 by Team Maccabee

[adampierson]

That was one of the concerns I had when I first hid a cache. Originally I took the form explaining what a geocache is, and added a e-mail address. This was so if a muggle found the cache, they could contact me if there were any questions. But after considering the liability if a cache were to be traced back to me, I took my e-mail address off. I have a feeling a lot of other hiders are thinking of the same thing.

 

I think this is the first time this issue has been brought up here in the forum.

 

We should count our blessings that no one has been sued over geocaching and I hope we never see this ever happen.

[+Team Maccabee]

Taking your email address off won't do anything to prevent you from being sued.

 

If a geocacher looking for your cache is injured, they are going to know who placed the cache.

 

If a muggle is injured from your cache, there's 'geocaching.com" somewhere on/in the cache, right?

 

If a muggle gets injured from the location of the cache, the last thing they're going to do is sue you because you happened to hide something there as well.

 

The answer is not removing your identifying information; the answer is to minimize the risk to people resulting from your cache. This is why we don't place dangerous items in caches and why we explain any potential dangers on cache pages. It's common sense.

 

Team Maccabee

[+The Leprechauns]

I think this is the first time this issue has been brought up here in the forum.

The issue's been discussed in the forums many times. Often the threads pop up after a discussion of a geocaching accident, or a death due to a heart attack, heatstroke, car accident, etc.

 

Now, if we had that search feature....