Do You Feel Guilty "sneaking" Around...

4.5k · January 7, 2006

I've been at this for a number of years. I still often feel like I'm doing something wrong especially in urban areas. Even in the woods. I guess it's part of the nature of what we do. Unlike thowing a ball around in a park in an open way, we sneak around furtively watching over our shoulders for muggles - even in the woods I look especialy when I have the cache. :blink:

No wonder I have this feeling like I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing. :unsure:

Anyone else feel this way?

January 7, 2006

not really.

20.7k · January 7, 2006

me either.

22k · January 7, 2006

Sometimes near residential housing, but otherwise not anymore.

I think it stems from having to hide the cache from the eyes of muggles pushes it's way into feeling that we have to hide the fact that we are geocaching.

Forget about trying to blend in and trying to make digging through a bush look normal, you can't do it. Just cache with a prupose and people won't give you a second look.

And if they do...

"What are you doing?"

"I'm looking for a film canister in this bush. You wanna help me?"

"Ah, no thanks"

Edited January 7, 2006 by BlueDeuce

January 7, 2006

Joe gets uncomfortable, but I don't usually. I don't exactly want to alert people to the fact that we are looking for something, but I never feel guilty about it.

It's my experience that if you act normal and pretend you belong there and you know what you are doing, nobody will pay any attention to you.

20.7k · January 7, 2006

Please don't read my post above as a suggestion that we should not be stealthy. I think hiding our actions is most important to keep caches from being muggled. I just don't feel guilty about it. In general, if I feel guilty, I'm doing something wrong and should evaluate my actions. I don't feel that way about how I play this game.

3.3k · January 7, 2006

This article from a fellow cacher, puts it eloquently.

What would you think?

The hobby of geocaching is quite unusual when compared to most leisure activities. It relies on annonymity and discretion--stealth even.

It relies even more on being able to hide geocaches on other people's property for our colleagues to find. Geocaching cannot exist without discretely placing geocaches where others can find them. This usually means on property we don't own, either public or private. Let's think about how our hobby looks to others.

Pretend for a moment that you are a normal person.

You look out your window toward a greenbelt in your neighborhood and see a stranger lurking about with a strange device, obviously trying hard not to be noticed. Then you see several other strangers doing the same thing over the course of a weekend. You might even spot them looking for something hidden, or hanging around for a few minutes and then hiding something before leaving.

What would you think? You find yourself overlooking an open area near a train station, or even an airport. A stranger comes to the area, and furtively walks around with a strange device (looks like some kind of homing system or remote detonator like they use in spy movies!). He stops for a while, repeatedly pushing buttons on the device. He then gets an olive drab container with military markings out of his car and hides it! The whole time he has obviously been on the lookout for anyone watching him, and generally looked very sneaky!

What would you think? Suppose you happen to notice a lot of folks showing up, for no reason that you can think of, behind the local convenience store. They seem to crawl around on the ground for a while, feel there way around trash containers and electrical boxes until they find a small container. They surrepticiously take this container a short distance away, all the while looking around to see if they are being watched. They rifle through the contents before, just as secretively, returning the container where they found it and then making a quick getaway!

What would you think? Okay, enough trying to think normally!

Let's think like a geocacher planning a cache hide (much easier than thinking normally for many of us). The importance of considering appearances is growing by the day. We need to consider how unusual activity at our cache location looks to observers who know nothing about geocaching. In today's society, most of us recognize that there can only be a limited number of responses by various bomb squads before they start comparing notes and decide that geocaching is a waste of resources and/or a potential cover for other covert activities. If communities begin to consider geocaching in this light, it would be easy for them to decide it should simply be banned. So how do we keep from bringing geocaching to the attention of regulatory bodies who may feel the need to help us keep things from looking bad? By behaving responsibly, and encouraging our fellow geocachers to do the same. Start by always following the spirit of the geocaching.com submission guidelines. This includes getting permission BEFORE placing a geocache, where appropriate. Most of the folks I have approached and discussed geocaching with have been happy to allow geocaches to be placed on property they administer. Obviously, the cache must be placed in an appropriate area, and designed to not cause conflicts or difficulties. If you have communicated with the property manager or owner, it should reduce the likelihood of calls to the police. Be prepared to take "NO" a an answer! There are plenty of places to hide a geocache in southern California. For a bit more information on selecting a cache location, please read: "Ready to Hide Your First Geocache?" We should all encourage other geocachers to place responsible caches. If you find a geocache that you think may draw unwanted attention or is in an area that is questionable for geocaches, you should contact the cache owner and explain your feelings. They may not be receptive, but you will have done your part. A diplomatically worded email could draw their attention to something they may not have considered. We shouldn't have to form the "cache police", but we do need to encourage each other to behave responsibly. If we continue to have bomb squads respond to geocaches, we will draw even more attention of a type we don't want. I am not trying to re-ruffle feathers or salt any recent wounds, but this is a topic we have to discuss openly for our hobby to survive! A bit of background about why I am concerned about where geocaches are being hidden, and why I think we all should be: "Phone Home" at DL 'Pinched'

Bomb squad blows up geocache in Tustin, Ca

Bomb vs. Geocache, the eternal strugle

Caching on Campus

Putting cachers in HARMS WAY!

Geocaches on Private Property

Bomb Squad explodes my Vista del Mar Park Cache

Ammo boxes, bomb squads, and you the cacher.

When I come up to a cache that exposes you to the general public, I do one of two things, look for the cache, or leave. I also warn future cachers, with my new bookmark list Cache at your own risk.

January 7, 2006

Guilty? No, that would imply that I was doing something "wrong" or "bad" and I'm not...I'm just geocaching.

I am still amazed when I cache, especially in urban areas, that that these little boxes (pill bottles, altoids tin, breath strip container, ammo can, plastic dish, etc) have been sitting there for months, or even years, without everyone being aware. One of the first caches I found was on a corner that I pass every morning on my way to work--180 times a year I had passed that cache, and I had no idea that it was there! To be "in on the secret" at last was a heady feeling for me....

Of course, I remind myself that I should expect that to be the case. I work in a school with teenagers, each of whom is convinced that everyone else sees their every move, records their every flaw, notices every mistake they make, and sees every pimple on their face---That has made me aware that (generally) most people are too focused on themselves to really notice what someone else is doing.

January 7, 2006

Of course, I remind myself that I should expect that to be the case. I work in a school with teenagers, each of whom is convinced that everyone else sees their every move, records their every flaw, notices every mistake they make, and sees every pimple on their face---That has made me aware that (generally) most people are too focused on themselves to really notice what someone else is doing.

For what it's worth, this is known as the spotlight effect.

2.6k · January 7, 2006

Anyone else feel this way?

Yes. Definitely. Count me in. I drove half an hour to a "nature preserve" sort of cache, only to find it had a new, fancy subdivision grown up all around it, no obvious parking or ingress, and a wall of windows staring at my back. I didn't even stop the car.

It's no good arguing that I'm not doing anything illegal, or psychoanalyzing why I feel uncomfortable acting goofy in public. Fact is, it makes me intensely uncomfortable, and I don't play games on my precious weekends to feel uncomfortable.

Lately, I've been carrying this ginormous camera I borrowed from work. It was the first generation digital SLR, so it was state-of-the-art...almost ten years ago. My little modern pocket Canon takes pictures pretty much as good, but this thing is so huge and professional-looking, it answers the question "what the heck is she doing out there?" from 100 yards.

January 7, 2006

Why would you feel guilt? You aren't doing anything wrong.

3.8k · January 7, 2006

Not Guilty.

Actually I feel pretty much the opposite; I feel a sense of great exuberance. :blink: :unsure:

1.3k · January 7, 2006

Not Guilty.

Actually I feel pretty much the opposite; I feel a sense of great exuberance.

Same here!

Brings me back to my youthful days of playing Secret Agent Spyman!! :blink:

Plus the satisfaction of finding a VERY PUBLIC micro successfully is like nothing else!!

(See "Jacque's Walkway" - GCJMD6)

I would have to rate this one as one of my favorite caches in my short career so far. Just due to the sheer nature of feeding my Secret Agent Spyman fantasies!!

D-man <----Me wearing my Super Cool Secret Agent Spyman glasses

Edited January 7, 2006 by gridlox

January 7, 2006

I believe it depends upon one's up-bringing. There are many caches which I shun because they are hidden on private property or on an item with which one should not tamper. There was a stage of a multi-cache affixed to an electrical switch box which had me "spun up" for a while. I often will just stop and go on to the next cache on my list without even logging a DNF because the cache seems to be in a spot where I am not comfortable to tread. I guess some people are more comfortable playing frisbee in places where I'm uncomfortable doing the same. BUT, (the big but) that's what America is all about - freedom to choose. I'm just glad Geocaching does not REQUIRE me to go certain places, but ALLOWS me to go where I please.

January 7, 2006

generally not. I just stroll in like I should be there, do what I've got to do, move on. Granted yes, some locations require more stealth and finesse than others, but with the right approach, the same theory still applies.

I may mask what I'm doing when needed but still no guilt. I'm not doing anything wrong :unsure:

January 7, 2006

Brings me back to my youthful days of playing Secret Agent Spyman!!

Funny, I've had that (Secret Agent Man) playing on my iPod when hunting in some more public spots. Or the Mission: Impossible theme

Probably will shortly when I go after a Ground Zero cache not far from here today :blink:

Edited January 7, 2006 by wandererrob

1.3k · January 7, 2006

... Or the Mission: Impossible theme

Oh yeah!!

I've hummed that one on many of a cache hunt!! :blink:

January 7, 2006

I don't get too uneasy while searching, but I have been questioned a few times by muggles. As stealthy as I try to be, it's hard to be unobtrusive when you're 6'8". Now I try to have a couple "stories" prepared just in case, like "I'm helping a friend search for his missing ferret" or "My aunt is buried around here somewhere." Now I almost look forward to getting questioned, just to see how bizzare a story I can get away with.

It's amazing to me that some people are forward enough to question some big goomer stomping around in the woods, but dumb enough to believe just about anything I tell them. :unsure:

1.3k · January 7, 2006

Now I try to have a couple "stories" prepared just in case, like "I'm helping a friend search for his missing ferret" or "My aunt is buried around here somewhere."

I usually have my daughter with me, so "Chasing Chipmunks!" has worked on a few times that we have been asked what we were doing while digging in bushes!

2.2k · January 7, 2006

I still often feel like I'm doing something wrong especially in urban areas. Even in the woods.

Me too. That's why I hate urban caches and prefer muggle free locations.

1.8k · January 7, 2006

That feeling of guilt is what makes it so fun ... As we all know, what we are doing is not illegal (in most cases) so its kinda fun to feel a little guilty.

January 7, 2006

why should i feel bad?

Solong its Public land there is no problem for me.

January 7, 2006

Ahhh... it's sooo good to know there are others who feel the way we do. The other day we were caching at the Lawerence Welk Resort (a pretty nice area!) and we kept seeing security people driving by. We felt like we were just about to get hauled off to jail for going through their bushes. It did make it more fun though! So bring it on! I think, for me, somebody who grew up getting into ALL KINDS OF TROUBLE, that's what makes the game so fun. You feel like you're doing something wrong, but you're not!

Edited January 7, 2006 by shawnnel

January 8, 2006

i often feel a little bit strange when i pop up out of some secluded location and come face to face with some 'normal' people!

i've never felt guilty for what i was doing, but i have felt like i must have looked very suspicious - all part of the buzz i suppose we get from doing what we do!

2.1k · January 8, 2006

No wonder I have this feeling like I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing.

Anyone else feel this way?

I don't often feel like I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing but occasionally, yes. Usually because of the poor choice of location on the part of the cache hider or perhaps my bad choice of a time to be there.

Unlike thowing a ball around in a park in an open way, we sneak around furtively watching over our shoulders for muggles

I suspect that any cacher with over 50, or so, finds has experienced some sort of awareness that what they are doing might look creepy to muggles. It happens a lot. Caching at night in a college town along a secluded bike path - a young woman walks by and sees some guy hanging out in the trees - tell me that doesn't make you think about what your actions look like to others.

What amazes me is that I've never had anyone freak out or appear the least bit concerned about what I'm doing outside of a warning once when we crossed out of fenceless park property onto private property.

January 8, 2006

Yeah, I would agree that sometimes I feel that I must look very suspicious to noncachers. Funny that I don't feel that way when I have the kids along or even my wife. It is only those caches where I am alone & the cache is in a play ground or near a development.

A few days ago I was caching in a little development park and was probably in plain view of 50 townhomes. After searching for 20 minutes (logging a DNF) I was pulling out of the park and a police car pulled in. Call me paranoid but I think I was ratted out.

Another time I was very busy searching for an electric pole cache when a school bus pulled up and started letting kids out that belonged at the house next door. They gave me that "Mommy there's a stranger lurking out front" look, I quickly pretended to be the meter man and was busy logging the meter reading in my GPS. Had to leave and came back to retrieve another day to find it but the whole time feeling if I was spotted again what would happen.

January 8, 2006

I also warn future cachers, with my new bookmark list Cache at your own risk.

"You do not have permission to view this list"

January 8, 2006

I feel okay if Im in a park or open area,

But tonight I has poking around Downtown Denver and felt very paranoid at a few of the cache sites. I'm sure passing muggles that saw me thought I was a crazy homeless person and I feared that the cops would stop me and ask what the hell I was doing.

2.5k · January 8, 2006

If there is no one near, I'm pretty comfortable, and will look around undeterred. But I do get quite uneasy in a public area.

I was caching with someone who had never done it before and she was more comfortable than I was. She said I had a look on my face like "Don't mess with me!" (I was 6 feet from a busy walmart drive at a lamppost.)

January 8, 2006

I had been interesting in hiking to this remote area in my community. It took about 3 hours to hike into the cache on a small trail in tundra like woods. I had planned on finding the cache and then eating lunch...got a new small stove for Christmas and I just had to try it out, it worked great!

After lunch I packed up my stuff and started my way out. But then out of know where I just started feeling very uneasy, and kept looking behind me as if I am being fallowed. This wasn't my first time hiking and spent most of my youth in the woods, so I normally feel very much at home in the middle of know where. But for some reason I felt really paranoid of something behind me. It took a good hour of walking before I felt like I was along again.

When I got home and uploaded my pictures to the computer, my wife’s friend notices lenses flares in some of the pictures. She asked me how I felt when I took that picture....I gave her a wired look and asked her what is she talking about! She then told me that "orbs" like that are spirits, that where hiking with me. Three pictures I took have white orbs in them in the area where I felt very paranoid and wired.

There are many things that can cause what I think are "lenses flares", but I don't have an explanation of what got my head spinning in the woods? Maybe it was the mushrooms I found and added to my soup.

Here is the cache:

Marsh Lake GeoCache

January 8, 2006

Guilty, nope. Sometimes a bit foolish when you are trying to find an urban micro and not stick out like a sore thumb. But you get over that quickly.

2.7k · January 8, 2006

I wouldn't exactly call it "guilt" since I know I'm not doing anything wrong, but i am often somewhat paranoid about what it looks like I'm doing to a muggle.

I was looking for a micro in a shopping center a couple days ago and it occurred to me I probably looked like I was casing the place for a robbery.

I didn't find that one, but I came back a couple days later and searched by a slightly different ruse and found it easily without (in my perception) causing undue alarm.

A lot depends on who, what, and where.

2.7k · January 8, 2006

<snip>For what it's worth, this is known as the spotlight effect.

This is a very good point. I work with a lot of agencies that have a lot of cameras watching a lot of places and a lot of people. It gives one the illusion that they will get caught if they are doing something wrong (that is their purpose in existence).

But it is in fact no more than an illusion. Many of these security centers have 50 or more cameras monitored by one overworked and underpaid watchman who also has a TV, computer, radio, and a bunch of phone lines to answer.

Bottom line is, he/she ain't routinely watching the cameras. They are there to look at when their attention is called to a particular area for some reason and to record activity for confirmation after the fact.

Even with big brother's heightened presence, you really aint being watched all that closely. It is still not humanly possible. (although new technology does make watching a little more effective)

We make more of it in our minds than what it really is... which is what makes it so much fun to turn out the lights and hit the ditch when a car goes by on a night cache hunt.

January 8, 2006

TheWife and I ran into this a bit today out caching here in Denver.

The cache we were after was hidden (I think, we never managed to get to it) in the bushes near a fairly big drainage ditch next to a store. On the store gounds was a pavillion where a photographer was set up taking pictures of someone (I think it was for Senior pictures or something).

Anyhoo, we walk up there and sort of start discretely looking around but the GPS is taking me right next to the muggles.

So there we are, pacing back and forth about 75 feet from them, hoping if we wait a few minutes they'll move on, and I am realizing just how impossible it is to look like you have some type of reason for hanging out next to a big ditch swatting at bushes for any amount of time at all.

The photographer finally said "So, what'd you guys lose?". TheWife quickly answered "Our minds!!!" and we beat feet outta there.

I didn't feel guilty about it, it was more a case of not feeling the time was right to launch into all the details of geocaching while the poor guy was trying to do his photo shoot. Plus the cache appeared to be so close to where they were standing there is no way he we could find it without him seeing the hiding place.

Its much worse at night, as far as being worried about perceptions. Urban night caching is great fun, but you have a much higher probability of having some terrified muggle calling the police to come check out "the strange man hiding in the bushes just off the bike trail".

-Switchdoc

January 8, 2006

Anyone else feel this way?

No.

January 8, 2006

One of my friends has a huge Ford 350. He parks it where ever he wants, I mean where ever. Pulls up on sidewalks downtown, on the side of any road, whatever. He says his cars looks official and no one questions it. Did you see that movie, "Catch Me If You Can?", the dad goes to the bank, has his son wear a nice suit and open the car door. He looks official and the bank manager comes on opens the door for them. When people ask my what I'm doing while caching, I'll sometimes make up a story saying I'm doing something important and others times I'll tell them what I'm really doing. I love the sneaking around part and don't feel guilty.

^^ike

3.3k · January 9, 2006

I also warn future cachers, with my new bookmark list Cache at your own risk.

"You do not have permission to view this list"

Fixed it! :blink:

January 9, 2006

I also warn future cachers, with my new bookmark list Cache at your own risk.

"You do not have permission to view this list"

Fixed it!

Thanks. I particularly love this one:

Hidden in a "rough neigborhood," and the cache looks like a pipe bomb.

What the hell are people thinking?

January 9, 2006

I also warn future cachers, with my new bookmark list Cache at your own risk.

"You do not have permission to view this list"

Fixed it!

Thanks. I particularly love this one:

Hidden in a "rough neigborhood," and the cache looks like a pipe bomb.

Seriously, what the hell are people thinking?

Edited January 9, 2006 by ParrotRob

January 9, 2006

Hell no, sneaking around is part of the fun! :blink:

January 9, 2006

Heck, I'm not sure what I feel. Guess I should get in touch with my feelings huh? Best way I can describe what I feel when I'm lurking around caches located near private homes or stores is DISCOMFORT. I start thinking someone's gonna come out with a shotgun and start yelling. That actually happened to me once when I wasn't geocaching but that's another story.

So, now I usually have some sort of ridiculous story prepared. One of them is that I'm a botanist or scientist looking for a mutant frog or some sort of new flora and fauna. Another, depending on who asks me, is that I'm checking radon levels.

January 9, 2006

ONLY two places have I felt strange . . . twice at homes where the cache was in the front yard (cache page did not say the owner lived there, though he might) and a series at some local drive-in fast food places where the hides are on the menu kiosks.

BOTH of these, you KNOW people are watching . . . standing there with their hands on their hips, staring.

January 9, 2006

i dont really i mean we are not doing anything wrong ya know :huh:

January 9, 2006

Some of us are just not stealthy. We didn't shoplift as teenagers, don't lie well, don't cheat, and are just generally unskilled in the subtle art of deception. When we have to retrieve a cache in a public place, we come off as sneaky and furtive rather than stealthy. And we're aware of just what a bad job we're doing at being inconspicuous, which makes matters worse. And don't get me starting about the sweating.

The guilt that we feel is a premonition of getting caught, stammering a lame excuse, and getting the cache muggled.

January 9, 2006

No

20.7k · January 9, 2006

...Seriously, what the hell are people thinking?

I thin your self-editor may be turned off. :huh:

January 10, 2006

I am quite "aware" of how my actions may look to others, but that is part of the fun. On a recent outing, I was stumbling around a wooded trail, looking for a cache, when a young woman came running down the path. I had my dog with me, and made like she was looking for a good place to do her thing. I had been searching for a while with no luck, so decided to move on and come back to it another time. I drove on to the next location on my list, a few kilometers away, parked, got the Dog out, started off through the park, and here comes the same woman, running toward me down the trail. She had a queer little grin on her face as she came by, so she either thought I was stalking her, hitting on her, or just plain creepy.

January 10, 2006

I know it's not justified but yes, I always feel guilty lurking around. It's to the point where I have personally banned all caches with a "muggle" icon. I feel less suspicious when I have the kids with me. For some reason, their presence makes it look less suspect.

My 2 police encounters, one involving the bomb squad, hasn't helped my apprehension.

January 10, 2006

I was wandering a new trail in a conservation area with GPS in hand. Got to talking to a guy that was fast-walking the trails. Explained to him that I was looking for a place to hide a geocache. He just looked at me, smiled and nodded uh-huh, and kept walking. Not a question about what I was doing. Probably thinks I'm trying to hide something illegal. :unsure:

JohnTee

18.9k · January 10, 2006

To answer the OP.

No - If I am not doing anything wrong - why should I feel guilty??

If I was trespassing or being asked to do something "uncomfortable" to retrieve a cache - I just walk away.

Do You Feel Guilty "sneaking" Around...

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