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New Garmin Cx Models


Cowboy59
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What is going to make it easier to find a cache is experience, there is not substitute for experience when finding a cache. After a while one develops an instinct for were to look.

Of course this is true. But I don't think anyone will disagree that it is easier to find a cache with a GPSr that is actually tracking satellites than with one that isn't. If we didn't need GPSrs to find caches, we wouldn't buy them for geocaching (and this board probably wouldn't exist). Fact is, the GlobalSat got a lock where my e600 didn't, and that helped me find more caches.

 

Plus, not only did buying the GlobalSat help me cache in downtown S.F., but it boosted the stock earnings of one of my fellow geocachers ;) ! How bad can it be?

 

WEll I looked up your caches in San Francisco. Up untill a few months ago I was living 10 miles from SFO and I worked in San Francisco for several years.

As a matter of fact I lived in the area for 54 years so I know san francisco quite well, I even owned a building downtown next to the pyramid build untill about two years ago.

THe only way your explorist 600 could of had a problem finding thos cache was if you made a mistake.

 

Only one is even hear the downtown area, I know the hider and I know he always makes sure there is a string signal when he hides a cache as he states on the cache page.

 

Three of your finds were in GOlden gate park which ia about 5 miles from any high rise building. As a matter of fact most of the buildings within 2 miles of the parl are only two stories high, you also have a find outside on japan town, there are no tall bulidings there.

 

I read the logs for the cache and there are very few DNFs, I also know some of the cachers that post the finds and they use off the shelf Garmin and Magellan products

 

So there

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Look, you are starting to freak me out a little so I won't continue this much longer-- but I'm not saying it's impossible to cache in downtown S.F. without a sirf iii, I'm just saying that my Magellan was USELESS in downtown (i.e., the "Wandering Around Chinatown" cache) and my GlobalSat wan't. That's just my experience (and not because I'm "doing something wrong" ;) ). I was staying at The Palace on Market and New Montgomery and had a lock in the hotel room with the GolbalSat. Never would have happened with the eXplorist 600 and I seriously doubt your 500 would perform any better in that situation.

 

But, seriously-- don't worry about it too much, there are MUCH more important things in the world than whether or not sirf iii gets a better lock that a Magellan.

 

I wish you nothing but good things! Even if your GPSr isn't that great :P;).

 

Happy caching!

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So how much data can you put on a microsd card? I know that sandisk has right now up to 512mB and has plans to produce a 2gB card soon. If I wanted to put the whole city navigator / city select cd on a card, how much space would that need? same question for topo.

What I'm driving at is this: I'm planning on retiring my garmin III+ and get the legend Cx. With that I'm planning on mapsource topo, and city select or city navigator (which ever winds up being the better choice) in the auto nav kit to get the other stuff that goes with it for not too much more. Would I be better off getting the cd's and loading them onto a microsd card or getting the cards preloaded w/ CN/CS and topo? I know there's still 24mB of internal memory which is certainly enough to capture the track data that I collect anyway...

 

pro's? con's? thoughts?

 

bueller?....

 

-4ist

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For full City Nav. (City Select is being fazed out as we speak) you'd need 2GB (maybe more with later version)

However you could get a few 512mb cards (or even smaller) and put the regions you want on them and switch them when needed.

I think (quite sure) it will be more economical to get the CD's (DVD's?) and load blank cards yourself than to get the preloaded cards, those are primarily for people who don't like PC's ;)

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And if the price of the memory cards for the X sereis starts to drop every few months as larger cards are marketed it will be less expensive to load your own cards. AS HugoOne said, I also think the pre loaded cards are going to be purchased in a large part by Mac Users and others in the cyber orfan zone :rolleyes:

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I don't even think garmin knows. They might still be in transit. This is why companies list dates like first quarter 06, if gives them room for error.

In the past when I was a GPS buyer for my privous employer as I recall in most cases the new products form Garmin and Magellan would get to the stores near the end of the quarter. It is not really the manufactures fault, there are other suppliers that they depend on. I remember on time an order was delayed because the boxes for the product were printed wrong and the manufacture had to wait on new boxes for the product.

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I wish that Garmin also added a faster processor to the 60CSx. I think the unit is sometimes slow to redraw the map when scrolling around in populated areas. It could have used a fast processor also, in addition to the sd slot and SiRF3.

Edited by jcc123
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I wish that Garmin also added a faster processor to the 60CSx. I think the unit is sometimes slow to redraw the map when scrolling around in populated areas. It could have used a fast processor also, in addition to the sd slot and SiRF3.

Have you seen it, tested it, since you know that the new 60CSx is slow?

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I wish that Garmin also added a faster processor to the 60CSx. I think the unit is sometimes slow to redraw the map when scrolling around in populated areas. It could have used a fast processor also, in addition to the sd slot and SiRF3.

Have you seen it, tested it, since you know that the new 60CSx is slow?

Maybe jcc123 was referring to the 60CS?

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I know there's still 24mB of internal memory which is certainly enough to capture the track data that I collect anyway...

just to be clear, it is still up for debate whether the 24mb internal will be used for track data. everybody wants it to do that, but it doesn't appear to work that way as yet.

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I have traded emails for the last couple of days with Garmin techies, and have gotten a number of answers that I believe to be correct. They are that none of the eTrex Cx models (Legend or Vista) will have the 24MB of internal memory; they will only have the removable transflash card (32MB standard card upgradeable to as much as you want).

 

On the issue of SiRFstarIII chipsets, they were somewhat less sure of themselves at the beginning of our email dialogue, but I believe that the final answer will be what they told me late yesterday---neither the eTrex Legend Cx or the Vista Cx will have the SiRFstarIII chipset. The official Garmin press release indicates that only the 60 and 76 series will have SiRF.

 

http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/outdoor/010306b.html

 

I have since emailed SiRF to see if they can shed any light on this, but so far I have not gotten anywhere except a contact from a former salesman who has since left the company.

 

I think that the online shops and catelogs are jumping the gun and either assuming or just flat out making mistakes in their advertising when they make statements like some of what we have been reading the last couple of days in this forum as to what these new units will be capable of. We'll only know for sure when they finally start selling these units.

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I think this is a marketing ploy by Garmin. They'll offer the Sirf only in the 60 and 76 lines for now. Once those sales have slowed they'll update the Legend and Vista with the new chip and have another marketing blitz. I guess I can't blame them but it's too bad because we'd all love to see the entire product line upgraded to Sirf now.

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I think that the online shops and catelogs are jumping the gun and either assuming or just flat out making mistakes in their advertising...

it does make me wonder, though, where the retailers got the idea that sirf was included. did they make it up? if i was a retailer, i wouldn't advertise specs i didn't get from the manufacturer. i wouldn't want the headache of angry customers returning product or accusing me of fraud when the product they finally receive doesn't live up to the initial marketing. i've noticed that some of the sites have a "specs subject to change" clause. others do not (amazon, gpscity, etc). maybe amazon and gpscity will get sirf-based units and the others won't. :D

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I think that the online shops and catelogs are jumping the gun and either assuming or just flat out making mistakes in their advertising...

it does make me wonder, though, where the retailers got the idea that sirf was included. did they make it up? if i was a retailer, i wouldn't advertise specs i didn't get from the manufacturer. i wouldn't want the headache of angry customers returning product or accusing me of fraud when the product they finally receive doesn't live up to the initial marketing. i've noticed that some of the sites have a "specs subject to change" clause. others do not (amazon, gpscity, etc). maybe amazon and gpscity will get sirf-based units and the others won't. :unsure:

I think some of the folks at Garmin don't know what they're talking about. Either that or they just flat out lied to me. See my earlier post in which I pasted an email from Garmin saying that the Vista Cx DOES have sirf.

Edited by ALooneyGuy
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Too many people jumpen the gun, and Basspro was one of them, that should not have had that particular info posted to that site, but could have had a message on the Basspro site to watch for new receivers on the 3rd. I knew as of the 3rd of the month, that the little etrex Legend and vista did not have SiRF receivers in them, but only the Garmin ones, but also I did not know that the eTrexes would have the Map memory chip removed from them, in exchange for a MicroSD slot in the 2 etrexes.

 

Too many humans with wishful thinking gumming up the works here.

 

I have opened up an Etrex Vista, and there is not alot of room in there among the circuit boards, that are stacked in there, and that was one of the things, I did not like about the etrexes, where the circuit boards are NOT mounted down solidly with screws, and dropping an etrex on a hard surface could jar the ribbon cable loose, that goes to the Click-Stick and LCD display, so Im staying away from the etrexes. I had the B&W Vista, and it was a bad unit, bad receiver, screen too small for eyes, rubber band came loose, click-stick, and LCD screen bad.

 

I already have a Map60C, and that should be enough for me for awhile, but will be selling the old B&W Map76S, and SporTrak Color.

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From a blush at the 60csx manual.

 

Page 7 says this can be powered from USB. This true for VistaC/LegendC, but not for 60C/76C. Interesting change.

 

Page 8 shows they're using a transflash socket very similar to the one used in Explorist. (Different form factor, of course.)

 

The appendix with the specs shows an expected batt life of 18 hours instead of 20 in the cs and the acquisition times, of course, being much lower.

 

At a glance, the menu tree appears identical.

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I also noticed this for the 60CX on Page 74 for Accuracy:

 

GPS <10m (33 ft) 95% typical

DGPS 3-5m (10-16ft) 95% typical

 

My specs on my 60C (Page 68)

 

GPS <15m (49 ft) 95% typical

DGPS 3-5m (10-16ft) 95% typical

 

Looks like Garmin is claiming better expected position accuracy with the 60CX than the 60C; at least without WAAS enabled. Can we then infer better than claimed accuracy with WAAS? I regularly see +/-2m (6-7 ft) accuracy on my 60C w/WAAS enabled in ideal conditions. Can't wait to hear from folks who have used one of these X models!

 

[edit: corrected my bad math. Thanks 4MLA1FN]

Edited by Timpat
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Page 2 60Cx manual:

 

This product includes technology owned by sirf technology inc.

 

This is missing from the Vista Cx manual.

 

 

Here is the answer ig got form Garmin when I asked if Vista cx has sirf:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin Europe.

 

Yes all the 'X' units will feature the Sirf III start chips.

 

Please note the website only has the early announcements of these units and

in time will featured detailed specifications as other units have.

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I wish that Garmin also added a faster processor to the 60CSx. I think the unit is sometimes slow to redraw the map when scrolling around in populated areas. It could have used a fast processor also, in addition to the sd slot and SiRF3.

Have you seen it, tested it, since you know that the new 60CSx is slow?

well, you tell me....do you think that if Garmin upgraded the CPU to a faster one that they wouldn't advertise that fact? Kinda makes no sense right? The old 60 series were slow and unless they upgraded the x series, which presumably they didn't since they say anything about it, the x series would also be slow when redrawing maps in populated areas like New York Merto area.

 

I don't think Garmin is that stupid. If I made an improvement in my product I would scream at the top of my lungs to let people know. I think the only things they changed to get us to double dip is the SiRF and miniSD.

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My latest info from Garmin.

----------------------------------

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin Europe Support.

 

We originally thought that the new etrex series would have the sirf

technology. We have now been corrected on this with a marketing memo.

 

We have no information saying that this will be added to the new etrex

range.

 

If you have any further queries please don't hesitate to contact us again.

 

When replying to emails, please include any previous email correspondence

(AOL users should select the email before clicking Reply).

 

Regards,

 

Nicholas Williams

 

Product Support Associate

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Could someone please explain how any GPSr could retrieve an ‘accurate’ lock inside a building? I was under the impression (from everything I have read about GPS) that the signal has to be line of sight. Anything other then line of sight would decrease the accuracy of the unit. ie...if the unit is inside a house the signal from the satellite going through the roof will slow down (either because of the difference in the medium or because the signal is being bounced into say a window) and thus give you an inaccurate reading (if at all). If this is the case I don’t see how any chip can change this because a chip under say a dense forest will have the same line of sight that any other chip would have. Am I missing something?

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Could someone please explain how any GPSr could retrieve an ‘accurate’ lock inside a building? I was under the impression (from everything I have read about GPS) that the signal has to be line of sight. Anything other then line of sight would decrease the accuracy of the unit.

I agree that direct line-of-sight is needed for best accuracy. But under poor reception conditions I'd frequently rather get a position with a little less accuracy as opposed to having a less sensitive unit that just tells me there's "Poor Reception." And in practice the accuracy might still not be bad. When I use USAPhotoMaps and have my eMap sitting on my desk (and not near a window) the position shown on the aerial photos usually pinpoints the part of our house roof that's within about 10' of my actual position.

 

The more sensitive receiver can also improve accuracy in a case where both units are able to get a position fix but must use at least some indirect signals. When multiple signals are received from a given satellite the receiver should always rely on the one that's received first since it'll be closest to the direct path. So if the more sensitive receiver gets multple indirect signals from a satellite it can pick the one that has the least delay and use it in the position calculation. A less sensitive receiver may only get the strongest reflected signal and have to use it even though it may have more delay.

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Indoor reception depends in part on the building, In my house my Magellan’s will get a look, but it takes longer than outside. Most homes do not have a lot of metal to block reception. In a building with a lot of metal in it's construction GPS reception going very difficult, unless the GPS is close to a window.

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Indoor reception depends in part on the building, In my house my Magellan’s will get a look, but it takes longer than outside. Most homes do not have a lot of metal to block reception. In a building with a lot of metal in it's construction GPS reception going very difficult, unless the GPS is close to a window.

I can attest to this...

 

My home is a hodge-podge of various construction methods (previous owner was a Doctor, and added to the house to contain his practice in his later years.)

 

The first floor is a combo of stone, stucco and cinder block, with a very "windowy" addition (Huge bay windows) but steel framed, studs, joists, and beams... The 2nd floor is framed with lumber, but hand plastered on the walls (steel wire mesh inside 2 inches (yes, 2 inches!) of plaster. 3rd floor (semi footprint) is newer, dimensional lumber and sheetrock.

 

Care to wager where I get the best reception?

 

I have about a 10 square foot area by a South-facing bay on the 1st floor where I get 2d lock, 50% of the time, no lock the other 50%...

 

2nd floor? Forget it... Unless I hold my hand out a S-SW facing window, I'm lucky to grab even 1 satellite.

 

3rd floor? Surprising not too bad... Despite some modern vapor barriers and insulation, I can get a 2d lock about 60% of the time, a 3d lock about 20%, some WAAS overlap about 15% of the time, and nothing about 10% of the time, usually if I'm standing by the chimney or toward the eaves...

 

I built my own shed. Way over engineered (because I tend to engine blocks or a half a dozen deer from the rafters on a regular basis) with thick walls and insulated aluminum siding... I get ZERO signal in there... Can't even get a celluar signal!

 

I've been inside my cousin's 3 story home that was way under engineered (we're taking 8" of deflection to the floor of a 12x18 room and 1/4" sheet rock!) I get a lock on at least 5 birds everywhere in the house!

 

Materials used in construction (in my opinion) tend to be more important than "orientation" (the physical blocking of "line of sight"...)

 

1.5" of paper or thin gypsum isn't going to block a signal, even at an oblique angle to the satellite... a 1/16" of aluminum or copper, regardless of angle, will..

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I'm sure this has been asked previously, so please forgive me for representing the department of redundancy department...

I'm going to order a Legend Cx and put a 512mb or 1gb card in it. Would I be better off with city select or city navigator? I know later on this year I won't have a choice anyway.

 

Thanks!

-4ist

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I have had some e-mail exchange with Garmin inreguards to the "X" line. It is as follows. They were very fast in reply, infact in minutes. Very impressive.

 

...

Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:04 PM

To: Garmin Sales Support

Subject: Sales support request for GPSMAP 60CS

 

Inquiry:

Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx

 

I was wondering if the 60CSx memory card will also be capable of storing

Waypoints as well as maps. Being a Geocacher that travels far and wide it

would be great to be able to preprogram the card with all the Geocaches for

each Map set.

 

Request emailed to mobile@garmin.com

 

>>>>

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin. At this time the card will be for mapping.

Waypoints, tracks, and routes are stored in the internal memory. I will

pass your email on as a suggestion.

 

Kyle B.

 

GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, INC

1200 East 151st Street

Olathe Kansas 66062

>>>

Thank you for your hasty reply. I thing that is would be in the best interests your company to incorporate such an upgrade. As from my observations Garmin is the number one choice of product in the Geocaching community. Many of the members of our discussion forum are very excited about this new product line. I like many others have been anxiously waiting to see what this wonderful new "X" line was going to hold. I can not stress enough how beneficial having the waypoints stored in to the memory card would be to all of us. My current GPS, GPSMap 60cs, already holds almost 1000 waypoints. I always wish I had the ability to store more. I am forced to keep some open slots for adding some while on the trail. What a wonderful thing it would be to be able to have a few Memory cards, pre-programmed with the Map sets and all geocaches along my proposed route (and more for detours) for my long drives from Nova Scotia to British Columbia. Or, for when traveling overseas. I myself would find this feature irresistible and would have to upgrade to a new model immediately. As I also know many others in our community would do the same.

 

>>>

 

Thanks for the information. I will pass this suggestion on as well.

Believe it or not, we do pass all suggestions on to our engineers for consideration and in many cases incorporation into our products. While I can not promise you that we will use them I can tell you that about 80% of the suggestions we get are actually used in one way or another and are a very big part of our product improvement program.

Kyle B.

GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, INC

 

1200 East 151st Street

Olathe Kansas 66062

 

>>>

 

Again thank you very much for such a speedy reply. I will pass this information onto our Geocaching community. We look forward to ever better products from your company.

 

Who ever said you can't improve on perfection?

 

Highly recommended and appreciate your time.

 

...end

 

Should they upgrade the software to allow Waypoint storage on the card as well it wouls be much more attrative for sure.

 

Perhaps other interested parties should also send their ideas...

Edited by CasheKicker
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In reading through the posts above, it looks as though the 60 x series can only store map info on the transflash memory card. I would agree that being able to store geocache waypoints on the card would be a great benefit, especially if the comment field in the waypoint screen could hold more data than the 32 odd characters. I have a friend with the new magellan explorist 600, and his geocache page will list all the info you need, GC code, name, place by, date last found, difficulty, cache type and container size and even the "hint". He no longer needs to carry his pda. I hope that Garmin implements this as soon as possible..... Anyone have any insight on this?

Edited by Svenster
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I have a friend with the new magellan explorist 600, and his geocache page list all the info you need, GC code, name, place by, date last found, difficulty, cache type and container size and even the "hint". He no longer need to carry his pda. I hope that Garmin implements this as soon as possible..... Anyone have any insight on this?

 

I would suggest e-mailing that information to Garmin. As our Geocaching community grows larger by the day. Acknowledging our wants, wishes and desires in a GPS unit is what they must do in order to compeat with the compitition. If you suggest it they seem to be very receptive. If we do not tell them what we want they wont know.

 

Send them an e-mail. We all have to tell them what we want.

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Well, all I can say is that many years ago while in a meeteing with a garmin rep. I made the suggetions to Garmin re the use of an off the shelf memory card. When I saw the rep about 6 months later he said a GPS with an SD card was less than a year away, that was about 4 years ago. I guess it takes Garmin world 1460 days to circle the sun :)

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