New Garmin Cx Models

January 4, 2006

Personally, I think Garmin has screwed themselves with the Legend/Vista Cx. I can not see why anyone would put out the extra cash for 8 MB more memory and nothing else. If it had the siRF chip, I'd buy one tomorrow. Memory is OK, but for a small handheld, it does not matter much.

It's not just 8mb, you can put in as much as you like (or as you can buy )

6.4k · January 4, 2006

Yes, I know, but you are paying $54 (MSRP more in reailty) for the extra 8 MB. Then you could go out and spend even more money to get a bigger card. I just can't see many people wanting to pay for it in that market segment.

Strangely enough the MSRP difference between the 60C and the 60Cx is the same $54.

January 4, 2006

I've seen a few places that say that the legend Cx will come with a 32MB trans flash card. Does this mean that is the biggest that it will support? Could I put a 512MB card in there? Perhaps we won't know until Garmin releases the product. I'm also wondereing if City Navigator would be a better choice than City Select, being that Garmin will aparrently discontinue CS in favor of CN soon anyway...
What do you think the crystal ball says?

-4ist

I just got an email from Garmin tech support that said the new "x" series units will be able to support up to a 512mb card.

So there ya go...

Ducati

5.3k · January 4, 2006

My prediction is that the X-nots will quietly fade away within a couple of quarters.

January 4, 2006

Garmin may say it supports 512, but they currently only list 128 and 256 cards for the 60x.

http://shop.garmin.com/accessories_for_pro...ku=010-00422-00

January 5, 2006

I emailed Garmin about the Vista Cx, and they specifically said that it DOES have the sirfstar chipset.

3.2k · January 5, 2006

Please stop telling me how cool SiRF is! I just bought my 76CS 5 months ago and can't afford to get a new unit!!! Tell me the new stuff is horrible so I won't end up scheming on how to get a new unit. Sigh............. :rolleyes:

January 5, 2006

I can't believe that Garmin said that the Vista Cx has the SiRF chip. There is nothing on the website for the new models listing the SiRF, if you look at the website that garmin has up on the new cx units the ledgend cx/vista cx don't have the SiRF logo at the top and the 60Cx and 76Cx do.

3.8k · January 5, 2006

Garmin does not have repeaters in their lobby. The service areas do have repeaters. I have turned on my 60CS in the lobby and was unable to get a lock even after 10 minutes.

Even if they did have repeaters the fact that it had a 3d lock in less time than it took me to push the page button three times was pretty impressive.

January 5, 2006

I can't believe that Garmin said that the Vista Cx has the SiRF chip. There is nothing on the website for the new models listing the SiRF, if you look at the website that garmin has up on the new cx units the ledgend cx/vista cx don't have the SiRF logo at the top and the 60Cx and 76Cx do.

It does seem a little doubtful, doesn't it? Here is my email to Garmin and their response:

Inquiry:

I own a Vista and I'm trying to justify upgrading to the brand new Vista Cx.

Is there any difference between it and the Vista C besides the memory slot?

I had read somewhere that it might have the sirfstar III chip which is

supposed to work better under foliage. Is this true? Any information you

can provide detailing the difference between the Vista C and Vista Cx would

be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Thank You for contacting Garmin International!

I am happy to help you with this. The differences are just as you stated,

the expandable memory, and yes it does have the sirfstar, however you have

been misinformed sirfstar acquires faster. It will not do any better under

foliage. As the problem with foliage is that the signal strength emitted by

the satellites looses strength by the time it reaches earth, and the signal

cant actually penetrate the dense foliage, acquisition under dense canopy is

bad because the canopy is dense.

January 5, 2006

Hi all!

This is very exciting stuff, although I'm a little bummed about the waypoint limit-- are we sure that there will be no way to store waypoints on the SD card? Certainly seems that way reading the specs on Garmin's site.

Wanted to add that I've been using a GlobalSat BT-338 with sirf iii for about a month now and it really is as impressive as people say. I posted my experience in this thread, if anyone is interested. Just got back from San Francisco where my (returned) eXplorist 600 couldn't get a lock downtown EVER-- the sirf iii was tracking birds from my hotel room surrounded by high rises :rolleyes: ! Good stuff!

Happy New Year!

January 5, 2006

What was the price on the thing?

AND- what's the differences between the Cx and the CSX?

Thanks bud!

I believe the S is for sensor, as in compass "sensor" and barometric "sensor" as mentioned in the other responses.

January 5, 2006

I can say with certainty(after my hands on with the unit and discussion with a Garmin rep) that the etrex units do not have Sirf. Only the 60x and 76x models have Sirf. I think the tech support person who emailed you may have misread in their documentation.

January 5, 2006

ALooneyGuy:

That is a very interesting email you have posted. It seems to contradict the information that Garmin is posting on it's website. This link here... http://www.garmin.com/ces2006/products/etrex/

has this text

"In addition, the new 60x-series and 76x-series units will feature a new and highly sensitive GPS receiver that obtains faster acquisition times and lets users determine and track their location in challenging conditions such as heavy foliage or deep canyons."

Funny that it actually mentions heavy foliage...

January 5, 2006

Talked with the main GPS guy at REI Seattle store today. New 60Cx and 60CSx units will be available in February/March timeframe. Garmin website indicates January '06 availability, but looks like they're slipping a little. One can pre-order either unit through Amazon.com, but cost savings is currently only $30 or so.

Units come with 64-MB SD card, but will support any SD card up to 1-GB as SD card technology is transparent to devices.

--Zenwolf

2.9k · January 5, 2006

deleted

Edited January 5, 2006 by GOT GPS?

January 5, 2006

here is an ad that says the legend cx does have the sirf chipset http://www.gpscity.ca/item-garmin-etrex-vi...trexvistacx.htm

1.7k · January 5, 2006

The eTrex line does not use SiRF. Check out this Garmin page about CES. Note the wording

The eTrex Legend® Cx, eTrex Vista® Cx, GPSMAP® 60Cx, GPSMAP 60CSx, GPSMAP 76Cx, and GPSMAP 76CSx will all feature the new card slot. In addition, the new 60x-series and 76x-series units will feature a new and highly sensitive GPS receiver that obtains faster acquisition times and lets users determine and track their location in challenging conditions such as heavy foliage or deep canyons.

The bold emphasis being mine. BTW, I found this page by reading Garmin's CES blog (really an ad) written from the nuvi's perspective. Everyone has a blog these days huh?

January 5, 2006

I am interested in these new garmin models. also the Magellen eXplorist 400 and GPS map60

Things that matter to me are...reception and accuracy, price between 300 and 400, I plan on geocaching and I use a mac :rolleyes:

Please help me by comparing these. I plan on buying by the end of the month

January 5, 2006

The eTrex line does not use SiRF. Check out this Garmin page about CES. Note the wording
The eTrex Legend® Cx, eTrex Vista® Cx, GPSMAP® 60Cx, GPSMAP 60CSx, GPSMAP 76Cx, and GPSMAP 76CSx will all feature the new card slot. In addition, the new 60x-series and 76x-series units will feature a new and highly sensitive GPS receiver that obtains faster acquisition times and lets users determine and track their location in challenging conditions such as heavy foliage or deep canyons.
The bold emphasis being mine. BTW, I found this page by reading Garmin's CES blog (really an ad) written from the nuvi's perspective. Everyone has a blog these days huh?

I would tend to agree with you, but I'm hoping what I was told directly by Garmin is correct - that the Vista Cx DOES use sirf.

January 5, 2006

I emailed Garmin about the Vista Cx, and they specifically said that it DOES have the sirfstar chipset.

whoa. could that be true? i'll wait until i see it on their webpage. i just returned a vista c i got for christmas because of the miniscule memory, so the x is appearing at the right time. sirf3 would be too good to be true.

January 5, 2006

...I'm a little bummed about the waypoint limit...

maybe that could that be fixed with a firmware update??

24.7k · January 5, 2006

Too bad it's shy on waypoints. I want about 6 states CS, and Topo all loaded all the time and ready to go with the 5000 waypoints from the areas I may be in. They also left the small screen on the 76Cx

My GPS VI is looking less and less likely.

Edited January 5, 2006 by Renegade Knight

January 5, 2006

Man, some of you guys should quit complaining about the cost of features.... For a little perspective.

The Northstar we put on our Albemarle 4 years ago cost a little over $14k (without any maps! which were VERY expensive!)... Considered top of the line marine navionics at the time... It has been repaired twice for faulty ram and a bad hard drive. It has a 14" color display, and it runs off a HUGE pentium II machine in the cabin. It has less capability than a 60cx or 76cx... Fewer waypoints and tracks, no WAAS (DGPS only)... Obviously it'll route, but only with manually entered waypoints...

Technology has come a LONG way, and prices really have dropped for what you get...

It's really frightening that 4 years later I could buy a $450 handheld, plug it into my autohelm, and let the boat drive itself, MORE ACCURATELY, and store more waypoints than I can with a unit that takes up 80 times the space, demands AC power, and cost almost 32 times as much...

1k · January 5, 2006

More confusing information from a question sent to Garmin

Another question:

Why the sirfstar III chip was left out of the etrex cx ?

A: This technology is just being introduced to our range, we are likely to

include further units in the future.

If you have any further queries please don't hesitate to contact us again.

January 5, 2006

The Northstar we put on our Albemarle 4 years ago cost a little over $14k...It has less capability than a 60cx or 76cx...

dang. nice post. being new to gps, it is stunning how quickly the tech as improved. what will the next 4years bring. will we all be buying galileo devices? :laughing:

1k · January 5, 2006

Here is the reponce I got from Garmin:

Thank you for contacting Garmin Europe.

Yes all the 'X' units will feature the Sirf III start chips.

Please note the website only has the early announcements of these units and

in time will featured detailed specifications as other units have.

January 5, 2006

here is an ad that says the legend cx does have the sirf chipset http://www.gpscity.ca/item-garmin-etrex-vi...trexvistacx.htm

well, i place my pre-order, but through the US site (change the 'ca' to 'com'). they have no caveats like "specs are subject to change" and say twice that it has sirf3 so they must be pretty certain. we'll see.

January 5, 2006

What is so nice about the sirf? Not that I don't think it is nice, I just dont know jack about this. Is that better than Magellen chips? Thanks

January 5, 2006

What is so nice about the sirf...I just dont know jack about this...

significantly greater sensitivity and significantly shorter acquisition time. read this thread completely; i didn't know squat about it until i found this thread.

Edited January 5, 2006 by 4MLA1FN

January 5, 2006

Hi,

I've noticed another difference on the product pages for the vistaC and vistaCX. On the CX page:

Garmin VistaCX page

There is an icon at the top (in the feature icon list) that says NAVTEQ onboard. This is not on the VistaC page:

Garmin VistaC Page

Anybody got an idea on what this is?

FWIW, I've emailed garmin support about the sirfstar (and if it uses the same chipset/receiver as the vistaC).

I've also emailed basspro which lists on its site "Improved Receiver Sensitivity" as a new feature:

BassPro vistaCX page

I've also emailed gpscity (US) about the sirf iii since they mention it explictly:

GPSCity VistaCX

I've noticed amazon.com lists the vistacx with sirf iii too, but not sure how to contact them yet:

Amazon VistaCX Page

ah well, more fuel to the fires of discussion. If I hear anything worthwhile, I'll post the emails here.

Randy

5.3k · January 5, 2006

What is so nice about the sirf...I just dont know jack about this...

significantly greater sensitivity and significantly shorter acquisition time. read this thread completely; i didn't know squat about it until i found this thread.

Nothing about the SRIF chipset is going to make any easier to find a geocache. The faster acquisition time is not big deal. WHen I go geocaching the first thing I do is turn my GPS on before I even leave for the cache, I use direct route software so by the time I get to the cache my GPS has been on for 15 minutes too two hours in some cases. Fast acquisition time, no big deal.

As far as significantly greater sensitivity, like the response from garmin tech support re. tree cover, the SIrf chipset is not going to maintain a better lock.

WHat the new SIRF chipset will do is make easier for Garmin and there dealers to sell more products at a higher price. Like Rober said earleir. I do not see the X-nots be around for a long time, they may sit in Garmins wharehouse for years to come with some of the other prodcuts that did not sell wel for Garmin, I think they still have some GPS12s in stock.

I think the big screw up with the X series is not being able to load waypoint onto the chip. I think that will be the down fall of the x-series.

January 5, 2006

Got a response from basspro:

Dear Randy,

Thank you for contacting Bass Pro Shops online. We appreciate your business.

The Etrex Vista CX does not have the SiRF Star III receiver. The receiver on the Vista CX is the same as the Vista C but has the added feature of 32 MB microSD card for MapSource data giving you the versatility of adding detailed maps.

edit: add response from Garmin, move url into quote:

Thank you for contacting Garmin:

Unfortunately the eTrex Vista Cx does not have the SiRF GPS receiver you can

view the product on our website at Garmin VistaCX page

Edited January 5, 2006 by drbugs

January 5, 2006

Downfall?.. I would pay the extra 10% anytime for just the memory extension feature.

- If I already had an eTrex C / 60C I don't think I would go for the X right away.. But for people who were planning to buy a new unit anyway (like me) its a great upgrade for small $ IMO.

5.3k · January 5, 2006

Downfall?.. I would pay the extra 10% anytime for just the memory extension feature.

- If I already had an eTrex C / 60C I don't think I would go for the X right away.. But for people who were planning to buy a new unit anyway (like me) its a great upgrade for small $ IMO.

Or you could buy a GPS with expancable memory that allows you to store Maps and Waypoints on the memory card, Magellan units offer this feature with an SD card.

January 5, 2006

Here's some more info from basspro. They confirm that the VistaCX still has the 24mb onboard ram in addition to the microSD.

Dear Randy,

The Etrex Vista CX has the same features as the Etrex Vista C including the 24MB of Internal Memory and the ability to store and track way points. With the 32MB micro SD card you are able to store maps you have made or order preloaded micro SD card.

I have requested that a change be made to the Internet copy on the Etrex Vista CX.

Thank you again for contacting Bass Pro Shops.

January 5, 2006

I think the big screw up with the X series is not being able to load waypoint onto the chip.

and you know that this cannot be fixed with a firmware upgrade?? i don't know either, which is why i asked above.

January 5, 2006

As far as significantly greater sensitivity, like the response from garmin tech support re. tree cover, the SIrf chipset is not going to maintain a better lock.

JohnnyVegas, I hate to say this, but you are just plain wrong. Maybe the Garmin tech needs to get his butt out of the office and use these things a bit. I have been using SiRF III chipset GPS units for months now. They are FAR more responsive than anything I have used in the past. (At least anything less than $1000.) :unsure: I can pick up 3D fixes with the unit UNDER my seat in the car, in my basement, and under all kinds of tree cover. I just can't believe how much better these units maintain a signal. I am just impressed as all get out. Of course, that is just my humble opinion. :laughing:

BTW, this is not intended to question your knowledge level, JV. I have always found your posts informative and accurate.

Edited January 5, 2006 by Greymane

1.7k · January 5, 2006

They are FAR more responsive than anything I have used in the past. (At least anything less than $1000.) I can pick up 3D fixes with the unit UNDER my seat in the car, in my basement, and under all kinds of tree cover. I just can't believe how much better these units maintain a signal.

What I'd like to see is a comparison between the x-series and eXplorists. The eXplorists have a good receiver. Both of my eXplorists have performed great under tree cover and inside storage bins in my car. I once had an eX100 and a GPSMAP60 on the passenger's seat. While driving under some trees, the MAP60 said it lost the signal while the eX100 kept on trucking. There have been comments in the past about the Garmin receiver going flaky under foliage. So the SiRF will definitely be an improvement for a Garmin, but how much will SiRF outperform a Magellan receiver? As for SiRF's startup time, since installing the new firmware for my eX400, it has been very fast. I don't know if someone will gain better GPS performance by choosing an x-series over an eXplorist. Maybe they will if they go from Garmin non-x to x.

January 5, 2006

Questions on the microSD card: (a) will any microSD card (i.e. SanDisk) work in the new X units, or does it have to be a Garmin card; ( :blink: since this memory appears to be limited to maps, it is safe to assume that a new X with a 512 card would hold approximately 10 times as much map data as the current 56K in the 60c line?

38.2k · January 5, 2006

Yeah it looks like the internal memory is what is used for the waypoints. The product page for the 60Cx series says can store 1000 waypoints. The page for the LedgendCx/VistaCx doesn't list any info about the number of waypoints, but does say that it is "loaded with the same popular features found in the eTrex Vista C/ eTrex Ledgend C" so I am guessing the limit on the waypoints as well.

Why limit the GPS to 1000 waypoints when it uses a memory card? It just does not make any sence.

Do we know for a fact that that is not only referring to onboard memory? I know the product page for the H20 on the Lowrance website says it holds 1,000 waypoints (2,000 for the Hunt), but you can store thousands more on the memory card. You can only load 1,000 into the onboard memory at a time however. The product page doesn't mention that very important part. Hopefully Garmin similarly left out that very important information.

January 5, 2006

(a) will any microSD card (i.e. SanDisk) work in the new X units, or does it have to be a Garmin card; ( since this memory appears to be limited to maps, it is safe to assume that a new X with a 512 card would hold approximately 10 times as much map data as the current 56K in the 60c line?

a: everything i've read says that any microSD will work. garmin (from a quote posted on the a.s.g.g newsgroup) said that 512mb will work with it and that "most units that can use expandable memory can use up to 2gb cards". since garmin doesn't not currently provide these card sizes, on has to assuming they're using generic cards.

b: i think that's a safe assumption. there's not much else to store; we know tracks aren't stored there (yet?). waypoints are likely stored the same as the non-x models (an internal set-aside memory). so it must all be used for maps.

Edited January 6, 2006 by 4MLA1FN

January 5, 2006

They confirm that the VistaCX still has the 24mb onboard ram in addition to the microSD.

i wonder if it'll be seamless with the card? for example, if i only want to load the southern ontario map from city navigator (which is 25.3mb), will it put the 24MB internal and the remaining 1.3MB on the memory card? hmm. it would be nice if the 24mb was used for tracks and the card exclusively for maps (or at least have it configurable).

2.4k · January 5, 2006

Why limit the GPS to 1000 waypoints when it uses a memory card? It just does not make any sence.

Do we know for a fact that that is not only referring to onboard memory?

I was calling Garmin techsupport about something else this morning anyway so I asked about the ability of the new 'x' models to store anything besides maps on the TransFlash card. The representative said he didn't know for sure and checked with someone else there before coming back and saying it was only for storing maps. I asked if he could put in a request for a firmware upgrade to also permit storage of waypoints and tracklogs and gave some example applications (also mentioned that some other companies already have that feature). He said he'd write up a feature request and submit it.

I don't see any technical reason why this couldn't be added with new firmware although it might well also require an enhancement to the MapSource program. So I'm hopeful that if there are enough requests for the feature we'll see it added before too long.

January 5, 2006

Nothing about the SRIF chipset is going to make any easier to find a geocache.

I'm not so sure about that. I used an eXplorist 600 for about 4 months before returning it and the thing would not get a lock in downtown San Francisco. Now, there are plenty of geocaches in downtown S.F., but my numbers didn't go up when I was there, because I couldn't get a lock anywhere in their vicinity. Interestingly enough, I returned to S.F. for New Year's eve with my new GlobalSat BT-338 (with sirf iii) and was able to cache right there in downtown :blink: ! I think I snagged about 7 caches that I wasn't able to with Magellan's technology. Where the eXplorist couldn't get a lock in the middle of the street, the GloblSat was tracking 6 birds from inside my hotel room.

I think the big screw up with the X series is not being able to load waypoint onto the chip. I think that will be the down fall of the x-series.

Now there I'm in complete agreement with you. 1000 waypoints just isn't enough for a long trip. Maybe it is something that can be fixed in a firmware update as others have suggested?

January 6, 2006

Well, I spent some time today looking at something to replace my Geko 101. I looked at both eXplorists and the new "x" Garmins. I decided on the Garmin line, seems like a better value for the money. TigerGPS is taking pre-orders on all the new x GPSr's. You have to add the item to your cart on the x models to get the price. I did some homework for whoever was wondering on prices. This is the only site I checked. For comparision I put the non "x" model under each:

GPSMAP 76CSx $460.55 w/128meg microSD card

GPSMAP 76CS $418.68

GPSMAP 76Cx $418.68 w/128meg microSD card

GPSMAP 76C $376.81

GPSMAP 60CSx $418.68 w/64meg microSD card

GPSMAP 60CS $376.81

GPSMAP 60Cx $376.81 w/64meg microSD card

GPSMAP 60C $334.93

Vista Cx $312.61 w/32meg micro SD card

Vista C $251.20

Legend Cx $251.20 w/32meg microSD card

Legend C $209.33

The Legend Cx will fall in my budget and still leave me $$$ for MapSource Topo. I'll keep the Geko in my backpack as a backup.

edit to fix spelling error found after proof reading twice before posting. Figures don't it!

Edited January 6, 2006 by hikergps

5.3k · January 6, 2006

Nothing about the SRIF chipset is going to make any easier to find a geocache.

I'm not so sure about that. I used an eXplorist 600 for about 4 months before returning it and the thing would not get a lock in downtown San Francisco. Now, there are plenty of geocaches in downtown S.F., but my numbers didn't go up when I was there, because I couldn't get a lock anywhere in their vicinity. Interestingly enough, I returned to S.F. for New Year's eve with my new GlobalSat BT-338 (with sirf iii) and was able to cache right there in downtown ! I think I snagged about 7 caches that I wasn't able to with Magellan's technology. Where the eXplorist couldn't get a lock in the middle of the street, the GloblSat was tracking 6 birds from inside my hotel room.

I think the big screw up with the X series is not being able to load waypoint onto the chip. I think that will be the down fall of the x-series.

Now there I'm in complete agreement with you. 1000 waypoints just isn't enough for a long trip. Maybe it is something that can be fixed in a firmware update as others have suggested?

I have cached in Down Town San Francisco, WHat caches I have found in the down town area I did find with my Explorst 500. I have two caches in San Francisco myself along the embarcadaro. In the area of the Trans america pyramid the signel from the satellite can be off by as much as 500 feet. Now the down town part of San Francisco that has tall buildings in not very big. There are parts of the down town area were GPS reception is good, but there are parts were it is very bad.

What is going to make it easier to find a cache is experience, there is not substitute for experience when finding a cache. After a while one develops an instinct for were to look.

If you are looking for a cahce that was hidden by someone that uses a GPS the only is accurate to and area of 20, an SIRF III chipset is not going to make up for the error of the other GPS. There are over 200,000 caches that are active around the world that have been hidden by GPSrs that may have been off by as much as 20 or even 60 feet, using a GPS with an SIRF III chipset is not going to change that.

For myself, I hope the new X models become very popular, I own stock in SIRF and have for over a year. Besides I just came out of retirement to go to help a new chain of outdoors stores get off the ground, and I have ordered some of the New Garmins for their new GPS Dept.

2.9k · January 6, 2006

This whole thing, is not all about just Finding caches, like in my case.

I like to use a GPS with a good signal, to record Tracklogs of Trails, and put all the trails combined into a large map file and to view all the segments as very long trails.

My old Map60C is pretty decent with this, but at times, it craps out, especially near my house and on my street.

My older Garmins I had were more of a problem with recording Tracks for putting on maps, but the newer ones are getting better, and closer to the accuracy of the $10,000 units by Trimble. I don't much autoroute or go find caches that much, it is more of a recorder of accurate Tracklogs, and a Trip Computer screen that is accurate enough for doing my Fitness activities. The 60C has worked good enough for that.

Geoff

January 6, 2006

What is going to make it easier to find a cache is experience, there is not substitute for experience when finding a cache. After a while one develops an instinct for were to look.

Of course this is true. But I don't think anyone will disagree that it is easier to find a cache with a GPSr that is actually tracking satellites than with one that isn't. If we didn't need GPSrs to find caches, we wouldn't buy them for geocaching (and this board probably wouldn't exist). Fact is, the GlobalSat got a lock where my e600 didn't, and that helped me find more caches.

Plus, not only did buying the GlobalSat help me cache in downtown S.F., but it boosted the stock earnings of one of my fellow geocachers ! How bad can it be?

4.5k · January 6, 2006

Here's the scoop on the SirfStarIII and Garmin gpspassion web site for everything you ever wanted to know about GPS's.

The discussion about sirf in other models may have to do with the fact that there are other models of sirf. Why do you think the latest is called sirf III. I believe there was the sirf and sirf II which may have been in Garmin's other models hence Garmin's statement about the lock being the same.

The Sirf III is the best currently available, has the highest sensitivity meaning it will see the signal under foliage and in places other GPS just will not pick up. That's in addition to the quick locks.

Edited January 6, 2006 by Alan2

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