Why They Lurk

December 30, 2005

Today I clicked on the pinned forum ''Who are the Lurkers? Identify Yourself".

I only checked the last two pages, but was supprised to see so many negative opinions of the forums.

These are literaly first impressions of folks just getting their feet wet in geocaching.

Is there any merit to their concerns? Should some New Years Resolutions be in order?

from the thread

IN the past I have posted on other threads and found that there is a certain faction out in cyber land that has the uncanny ability to take what one writes and finds the specific wording needed to be insulted or wr

This usually is invented by strong and unwavering feelings in the Political and social atmospheres.

Therefore I chose to be a reader rather than a writer

............................................................

I find that this forum has little tolerance so I only posted a few questions in the newbie forum. I've been finding this is one of the hasrhest forums that I belong to but I do read it everyday or to for the information.

...............................................................

I have hit the forums a few times, but wouldnt say I have made it to the Lurker status yet.

As for all of the negative mud slinging, all I have to say is everybody is tough when they are sitting in their living room at their computer deck. Or at least thats what I noticed on other forums.

It really does make you wonder why some people feel that they can act that way in public.

................................................

I entered the forums to gain information and some guidance and in many cases I found what I was looking for. I still do this (that’s how I cam across this forum). However, I also found that some of the discussions / opinions were influencing my enjoyment of the game. I started questioning my approach - was I doing this right? was my approach wrong? should I be doing this? etc. I was even considering at one point just dropping out of the game completely…. but I took another approach and decided to avoid the "controversy", dip into the forums only when I needed some particular guidance/information and avoid the “attitude”. I am now enjoying a "blissfully unaware" existence in my local area as I lay and find caches. I find theirs, they find mine – balance in achieved, we log the find, say “than you for the cache” and move on.

I spend alot of time in forums, I lurk, i dont have anything against posting but for the most part i kinda go with the "to many cooks spoils the kitchen" thing.....what i mean by that is in alot of topics it seems to just be a rant page where everybody says the same thing and i dont see any reason to add another voice with the same opinion ....if you have a new perspective.....great!...if somebody already said it.......shut up! it makes it a pain to go through thre pages of identical postings.

6.4k · December 30, 2005

Today I clicked on the pinned forum ''Who are the Lurkers? Identify Yourself".
I only checked the last two pages, but was supprised to see so many negative opinions of the forums.

These are literaly first impressions of folks just getting their feet wet in geocaching.

Is there any merit to their concerns? Should some New Years Resolutions be in order?

from the thread

IN the past I have posted on other threads and found that there is a certain faction out in cyber land that has the uncanny ability to take what one writes and finds the specific wording needed to be insulted or wr
This usually is invented by strong and unwavering feelings in the Political and social atmospheres.

Therefore I chose to be a reader rather than a writer

This poster appears to be saying s/he doesn't post here because of what they have experienced on other forums.

I find that this forum has little tolerance so I only posted a few questions in the newbie forum. I've been finding this is one of the hasrhest forums that I belong to but I do read it everyday or to for the information.

I regularly read about a dozen other forums and this one by FAR is the friendliest, cleanest, and most tolerent one I've ever seen. Flames here are quickly put out.

Perhaps what this poster is complaining about? The mods are too harsh in keeping these forums family friendly and troll free? I guess if you just want to stir the pot you might think this.

I have hit the forums a few times, but wouldnt say I have made it to the Lurker status yet.
As for all of the negative mud slinging, all I have to say is everybody is tough when they are sitting in their living room at their computer deck. Or at least thats what I noticed on other forums.

It really does make you wonder why some people feel that they can act that way in public.

Another one who seems to be saying they don't post here because of the way other forums are.

I entered the forums to gain information and some guidance and in many cases I found what I was looking for. I still do this (that’s how I cam across this forum). However, I also found that some of the discussions / opinions were influencing my enjoyment of the game. I started questioning my approach - was I doing this right? was my approach wrong? should I be doing this? etc. I was even considering at one point just dropping out of the game completely…. but I took another approach and decided to avoid the "controversy", dip into the forums only when I needed some particular guidance/information and avoid the “attitude”. I am now enjoying a "blissfully unaware" existence in my local area as I lay and find caches. I find theirs, they find mine – balance in achieved, we log the find, say “than you for the cache” and move on.

Knowing how other people play the game was ruining it for them? No way for the forum users here to fix that, unless every post was blank.

I spend alot of time in forums, I lurk, i dont have anything against posting but for the most part i kinda go with the "to many cooks spoils the kitchen" thing.....what i mean by that is in alot of topics it seems to just be a rant page where everybody says the same thing and i dont see any reason to add another voice with the same opinion ....if you have a new perspective.....great!...if somebody already said it.......shut up! it makes it a pain to go through thre pages of identical postings.

If someone feels they don't have anything of value to add to a conversation, I don't think there is much we can do to fix that on this end either.

Like I said above, these forums are topnotch, especially for the amount of people posting. While there is always room to improve, it doesn't look like there is much the forum regulars could do to improve the examples you've posted above. Hopefully as the lurk, they will get a feel for things and eventually jump in when they are ready.

For what it's worth, I lurked in the forums for several months when I started. I read every single post (no where near as many back then!) I didn't even create an account until I was ready to post. Now they can't shut me up!

38.2k · December 30, 2005

These forums are among the most polite and helpful ones I've encountered out in cyberland. I've been to many that are absolutely vicious. I think the naysayers consist of two types of people, ones who are new to Internet forums and are not aware of how nasty forums can really be, and those who view any kind of debate as a negative.

I saw one post recently that referred to "forum bullies" in a way that made it seem that there are a lot of them here. Forgive me, but I haven't seen a lot of "forum bullying" here at all, especially in comparison with many other Internet forums. I think some people view anybody who disagrees with them and says so as a bully.

Sometimes questions and comments can garner flip or glib responses and this can be offputting to newbies, but I really don't see it has a big problem. Often the glib remark is followed by a dozen or more helpful ones. Now if the newbie focuses on the one offensive remark and disregards the rest, I can see why he might have a negative opinion of the forums.

Its all a matter of perspective. Those of use who've haunted these forums for any amount of time recall people who have come here and left in a huff, disappointed with the "tone" here. Some have even quit the sport over something that was said here. But for every one of them I can point out a post praising us as a whole for being helpful and mentioning how nice everyone here is.

3.9k · December 30, 2005

This is actually the first forum that I've ever posted in. I think that the majority of the posters in here are more opinionated and outspoken that most people. There is nothing wrong with that, or being someone that is content to read the posts and agree or disagree silently.

I learned a long time ago in a training program that dealt with leadership that there are many different views, and that even though the views are different from yours dosen't make them wrong.

I'll agree that there are responses posted and some people posts the same response just to get in on the action. Who cares.

There will always be people that feel the need to voice their opinions, and there will always be those that keep those opinions tp themselves.

Besides, you have to admit that we are entertaining at times. :laughing:

El Diablo

38.2k · December 30, 2005

what i mean by that is in alot of topics it seems to just be a rant page where everybody says the same thing and i dont see any reason to add another voice with the same opinion ....if you have a new perspective.....great!...if somebody already said it.......shut up! it makes it a pain to go through thre pages of identical postings.

I'll agree that there are responses posted and some people posts the same response just to get in on the action. Who cares.

I think its just a matter of confirming what other people said. If JoeNewbie comes here and asks if its OK if he re-visits a cache to get a travel bug and El Diablo answers, that's fine. But if Mopar and Totem Lake post and confirm what El Diablo said, all the better. It gives El Diablo's opinion more weight.

Edited December 30, 2005 by briansnat

2.7k · December 30, 2005

I have found these forums to be very open. Not everyone is a diplomat, but that is called diversity.

I can point you to some -real nasty- forums if you wanna know what negativity really is.

The maturity level of 90% of the posters here far exceeds most internet get-togethers. 5% are just plain silly (which is why we have Off Topic - I fall within that 5%). The remaining 5% that act like babies get treated the way the act, until they grow up and post civilly or leave (by one means or another).

To expect everyone else on the forums to act within a preconceived notion of correct behavior is unfortunate, as it will never happen. You learn to deal with it and move on.

Also, remember that many times what is written in letters and numbers rarely conveys the emotional intent of the author. I think most people who get offended in forums (any - not just here) give their own interpretation and assume that what they THINK is being said is what is actually being said. Text alone does not well convey emotion. What seems to be sarcasm or shortness is not always sarcasm or shortness. It takes a certain amount of internet experience to realize this. Admittedly, it was a hard lesson for me to learn when I first started back in the heyday of 1200 baud modems. But I did, and I learned not to take everything as personal.

EDIT: Too slow for Briansnat... :laughing:

Edited December 30, 2005 by New England n00b

3.9k · December 30, 2005

I think its just a matter of confirming what other people said. If JoeNewbie comes here and asks if its OK if he re-visits a cache to get a travel bug and El Diablo answers, that's fine. But if Mopar and Totem Lake post and confirm what El Diablo said, all the better. It gives El Diablo's opinion more weight.

Yes...but you know what he means. 4 or 5 adds support to the statement or opinion...after that it's an over kill.

El Diablo

December 30, 2005

I find this a really interesting observation. When I first started posting, in the forums, I remember posting something along the lines that this forum was too rough for me and I would not be using it after I learned what I needed to know to geocache. I was not a newbie to forums in general and in fact run my own. It was soon after that the regulars took a week off from posting. I’m not sure if the tone of the forums changed then or if I just started to know some of the more “vocal” posters and found I wasn’t scared of them anymore. But anyway I love the forums now and as you can see I still post sometimes. :laughing:

Jackie

3.9k · December 30, 2005

The original poster raises an intersting issue. I post regularly in the forums here, and I enjoy browsing the forums when I have time. Yes, I have encountered harsh and even bizarre posts from forum posters here at times, but it is pretty rare. In fact, the only thing which has even bothered me is not that burst of occasional nastiness, but rather that a significant number of postings are apocryphal and nearly indechipherable due to the lack of literary skills or efforts on the part of the poster. However, and this is the real point of my post this evening -- what amazes me is the PERCEPTION that MANY cachers seem to have of the national (geocaching.com) forums, and how erroneous -- at least to me -- that perception is. Here is my tale:

I belong to the Maryland Geocaching Society, aka MGS, and am quite active in its forums. I regularly encounter cachers from Maryland and nearby states on the MGS forums and in person (at events, at cache sites, etc.) who love to bemoan the "fact" that -- to them, at least -- the national forums are filled with nastiness, evil attitudes, hostility and "filth", and they then declare that they would NEVER post on the national forums for that reason. Of course, they all proceed to state that they feel that the MGS forums are so much nicer and more polite and "clean", and that they thus hang out on the MGS forums. However, I also bump into a significant number of local cachers who not only refuse to participate in the national forum, but also refuse to post in the MGS forum as well, and their reasons for avoiding being active in both forums are EXACTLY those which are cited by the folks who avoid the national forum but do spend time on the MGS forum. What can I conclude from this? It is a bit difficult to be sure, but I suspect that what it all boils down to is that some folks are just very thin-skinned and thus may attach way too much importance and significance to what folks say on forums, or perhaps it is just that some folks really have no appetite for forums, no matter how gentle they (the forums) are.

3k · December 30, 2005

Interestingly (to me, anyway), there was a similar discussion which took place about this same time last year:

Do The Regular Posters Intimidate?

December 30, 2005

Overall, this forum is pretty sedate. I've been on other sites, A** in particular. Talk about sword fights! :laughing:

Edited December 30, 2005 by whitecrow

2.6k · December 30, 2005

I've signed up to many, many forums, and this one is (as others have said) one of the nicest and most helpful. A little flamage around the edges, but really quite mild.

You know what interests me? It's one thing to find a place off-putting for its rudeness and quietly slink away. It's another to announce, "I find this place is rude, I'm leaving!" Isn't that...rude? Like, above-average rude for a newbie in any forum?

2.4k · December 30, 2005

On several occasions I've gotten email from someone who has rarely or never posted in the forums, asking a newbie-type question. (Often these messages start with some variation of "someone told me that you might be able to help with this...") I always answer, probably in a lot more detail than I would here, and I have never asked any of them why they emailed rather than posting their question in the forums. I always just assumed that they felt too intimidated.

I guess I'm just non-threatening. :laughing:

(Although sometimes when I read my own posts back all I can think is that they sound so cold. I can see how someone might hear a non-existent "...you moron!" at the end of them. But it's never intentional -- the ones where I am thinking "you moron" are always deleted rather than submitted. I wish I could sound as friendly as Keystone or Markwell. But I would need a personality transplant for that.)

December 30, 2005

I think its just a matter of confirming what other people said. If JoeNewbie comes here and asks if its OK if he re-visits a cache to get a travel bug and El Diablo answers, that's fine. But if Mopar and Totem Lake post and confirm what El Diablo said, all the better. It gives El Diablo's opinion more weight.

Yes...but you know what he means. 4 or 5 adds support to the statement or opinion...after that it's an over kill.

El Diablo

Yeah, what he said. :laughing:

December 30, 2005

I'm new here as well, though I'm a well charred veteran of many intarweb forum communities. It's easy for people to get discouraged and bail because of a bad first post/thread. Using JoeNewbie as an example, 3 or 4 people reaffirming his thinking is a good thing. Those same 3 or 4 people could have blasted him and/or posted the ubiquitous 'link to thread on the same topic'. I think that's called a Markwell here.

Anyway, lurkers are made, not born, in my opinion. A simple question answered in a condecending manner or not answered at all could cause someone to give up. I've had the latter happen to me. It irritated me for all of about 10 minutes. I believe there are cliques in every forum who exhibit some elitist attitudes. Fortunately, those people are usually small in number and often shot down by the larger population of helpful people.

Everyone wants to be accepted in these types of communities, even if it's only a "Hey, welcome aboard!" comment in response to a newbie's post. The first few times a newbie (myself included) puts up a post can make or break his/her participation in the community. Imagine the personalities that are totally anonymous because they had a bad experience early on. What a waste of what could be great conversation, debate, and idea sharing.

Wow, kinda rambled there a bit, sorry for the novel.

3.8k · December 30, 2005

As a newbie (I hate that word) I was encouraged to post in this forum while observing all the quidnuncishness; I felt quite at home. :laughing:

As an experienced poster, I feel the same for the same reason. :wub:

December 30, 2005

At the risk of being perceived as thin-skinned (hmmm...isn't that a jab at the critics, too?)

It doesn't really seem vicous, it just feels like a club. Sometimes clubs look like packs. Ever walk into an upriver tavern all by yourself? Those aren't vicous people. They're a bunch of largely bored fellas who've been staring at each other since first grade, have repeated all their usual arguments 1000 times and are totally predictable to each other. That hipster doofus in the sandals who blindly wanders in for a beer is a temporary diversion for all of them. It's a social feeding frenzy.

This isn't the nicest forum I've spent time in, by any stretch, but it's not the worst I've seen either. I mostly lurk and will continue to do that.

6.4k · December 30, 2005

This isn't the nicest forum I've spent time in, by any stretch, but it's not the worst I've seen either. I mostly lurk and will continue to do that.

Just wondering, how big were the nicer forums, and how big were the worst?

Most of the friendlier forums I frequent are rather small.

Most of the harsher forums I frequent are either rather large, or rather small (sounds like a contradiction, doesn't it?)

I've been using forums, usenet, and BBSs for the last 25yrs, and for a forum that usually has 200-500 people on at any given moment, and 5-10 new posts every minute, it's remarkably well behaved. There are 10's of thousands of forum users registered here, the law of averages say that some are jerks. I think our jerk average is way below most of the 'net. I'd really love to see another group this big and this nice.

3.1k · December 30, 2005

I was not intimidated to post in the forums, I do feel that some people can be judgemental of others in their posts (ie. look at pinned this or that; seach and you will find it; etc.), and some people take stuff others say way too seriously.

As far as these being the nicest forums, that surprises me a little. I have never been on any other none geocaching forums, so I have nothing to base that on. I now have no intention of going to any other forums, if they get real ugly.

We have some of the nicest people volunteering here. Also most of the regular posters are really helpful people, they are for the most part not the ones being judgemental. I like it here. So I will continue to post whether people like it or not.

Thats my non-forum expert 2-cents...

December 30, 2005

There certainly has been moments of rudeness and anger in these forums and initially I was one of those who didn't want to get involved. But overtime I've seen the forum leaders act quickly to gain control and its encouraged me to start posting regularly. That says something because I lurk on lots of forums but is the Groundspeak forums that have felt well run enough and the other members helpful and courteous enough to get involved with.

JDandDD

December 30, 2005

I am definitely not afraid to look like an idiot anymore. If I get blasted, oh well. I'll live, and probably post some other nonsense later.

December 30, 2005

I first found this forum during a discussion of cave locations on the internet. The place was a little out of control at times back then. But over the years, I've watched a few key people really take control of some heated situations. They have also worked overtime, without pay to keep this place family friendly and sockpuppet free. IMHO, without these key individuals and there guidance, this would be a very vicious forum and this sport would not be where it is today.

Cave and Cache Softly,

Dan

5.3k · December 30, 2005

Personally, I would never want to be a participant in any forum that would let someone like me participate...

Or something.

December 30, 2005

Just wondering, how big were the nicer forums, and how big were the worst?

Most of the friendlier forums I frequent are rather small.

Most of the harsher forums I frequent are either rather large, or rather small (sounds like a contradiction, doesn't it?)

I know what you mean. Of the two very nasty forums that come to mind, one is huge, and the other is quite small. The friendliest (and therefore most useful to most folks) I would call "medium-sized". They are all specialized forums to discuss hobbies/pasttimes/sport. In every forum there are a few folks who have been there from the start and offer the benefit of polarities. It's to be expected.

There are plenty of open folks who post here. There are also, thankfully, the likes of Septic1tank to offer comic relief when things get edgy. I'm not sure the tendency toward edgy is a bad thing, it's just not my idea of rejuvinating, and since geocaching isn't my job...

Lurking isn't a bad thing. I've learned tons from eavesdropping in here, and have added very little clutter.

Edit: Maybe I'll even learn to spell Sept1c Tank?

Edited December 30, 2005 by Mearth

38.2k · December 30, 2005

Those same 3 or 4 people could have blasted him and/or posted the ubiquitous 'link to thread on the same topic'. I think that's called a Markwell here.

Interesting how someone can frame a "markwell" as a negative. There is lots of information here and some subjects have been hashed over ad nauseam. I don't see anything wrong with pointing newcomers to previous discussions where they may find a wealth of information.

Again its a matter of perspective. Joenewbie can say "Geez, thanks for the info, I have some reading to do" or, "Hummmph, I'm offended that imy post wasn't worthy of an entirely new discussion of this topic".

On several occasions I've gotten email from someone who has rarely or never posted in the forums, asking a newbie-type question. (Often these messages start with some variation of "someone told me that you might be able to help with this...") I always answer, probably in a lot more detail than I would here, and I have never asked any of them why they emailed rather than posting their question in the forums. I always just assumed that they felt too intimidated.

I guess I'm just non-threatening

As someone who has been accused of being a "forum bully" and other things not quite as nice via PMs and e-mails , I've also received my share of these kinds of e-mails and PMs. Actually its flattering because it tells me that someone had been lurking and thought I was someone who might have a worthwhile opinion. Then two days later I get an e-mail telling me I'm the biggest a-hole on the planet and it brings me back down to earth.

1.8k · December 30, 2005

Some of us kinda like to 'spar' every once in awhile. I don't mean we like to be rude to newbies or jerks for the sake of being jerks. I mean some of us like to have 'spirited' discussions. Also, some of us have thicker skin than others. There are posters in this forum who have titanium skin (Coyote Red, Mopar, El Diablo) and others who fall apart when the wind blows (you know who they are). So, newbies that make general comments about the civility of this forum need to stick around and learn how to react to and approach the various participants. Or not ... :laughing:

2.5k · December 30, 2005

Well, this is the first forum I ever used. As you can see in 5 months my post count shot up. I think it it pretty friendly in here for the most part. I have since ventured into other forums, and have to agree, this ones the best.

I am normally quite paranoid about the internet, but in here I guess I got comfortable, and decided to stay.

I admit, there are times when I get a little peeved about a situation. I sometimes don't get my point across as clearly as I like and give the wrong impression, but I suppose that just makes me wright better. :laughing:

I'm going to sick around a while, and just maybe make more friends than enemies. (So hopefully, at an event, I'll get more handshakes than slaps in the face.)

22k · December 30, 2005

Just wondering, how big were the nicer forums, and how big were the worst?

Well, to expand on Mearth's posting, 'nice' can be subjective. Back in '03 I was part of a woodworking forum that was about the same size of the gc.com back then. And in that forum it was strictly business, you gave input not opinion. You could talk about 'how to' but if it came to 'what for', you were shut down.

When I came over to here I was kind of wanting more of the 'let's talk facts' then what I was getting, but eventually I realized that the other forum was really the one on the outer edge of the norm.

If you put a meter on forums, scale of 1 to 10. 1 being the free-for-all, any punk can post, and 10 being the walk-the-line or you're out, I'd put gc.com about.........hmmmmm..... 7.5 maybe 8.

Edited December 30, 2005 by BlueDeuce

38.2k · December 30, 2005

My favorite example is Rec.skiing.alpine which I think is the polar opposite of these forums. You'll have to surf forums a long time before you find a more vicious and vile place. RSA got so bad that people posting there were fired from their jobs, received death threats and had their tires slashed. At one point it went to court and a judge stepped in and ruled that one person had to refrain from posting for a year.

Most of the other forms I've visited are somewhere in betwen RSA and here, but I've found few that were friendlier than GC.COM

Edited December 30, 2005 by briansnat

2.2k · December 30, 2005

My favorite example is Rec.skiing.alpine which I think is the polar opposite of these forums. You'll have to surf forums a long time before you find a more vicious and vile place. RSA got so bad that people posting there were fired from their jobs, received death threats and had their tires slashed. At one point it went to court and a judge stepped in and ruled that one person had to refrain from posting for a year.

Most of the other forms I've visited are somewhere in betwen RSA and here, but I've found few that were friendlier than GC.COM

OMG!! they're crazy over there. :laughing:

scurries back to the safety of off-topic

December 30, 2005

My favorite example is Rec.skiing.alpine which I think is the polar opposite of these forums. You'll have to surf forums a long time before you find a more vicious and vile place. RSA got so bad that people posting there were fired from their jobs, received death threats and had their tires slashed. At one point it went to court and a judge stepped in and ruled that one person had to refrain from posting for a year.

Most of the other forms I've visited are somewhere in betwen RSA and here, but I've found few that were friendlier than GC.COM

wow! I just got back from reading some of the posts on that forum.

Are there any skiers who quit because of their bad behvior.

I just new skiers were an bad bunch to be around... what potty mouths!

got to go now, have to check on something on EBay.

2.5k · December 30, 2005

As a general rule, do you think we geocachers are a little more friendly than people in other hobbies? I seem to notice, that people who enjoy going outside and doing outdoor things are in general a lot friendlier.

1.8k · December 30, 2005

Wow! I'm glad I'm not an Alpine skier! :laughing:

The only forum I frequently read (though not post to, since I'm not enough an expert) is an off-road forum, and I'd have to admit that on average, they're more civil than this forum. I suppose it's easier to be civil when you're talking about stuff like mechanical specs.

However, I have skimmed through other forums and this one is FAR from being nasty, mean-spirited, or anything like that.

I will say though, that it took me a while before I decided to get my feet wet on these forums. I'm not sure I can explain exactly why, but it's probably for the same reason I don't post on the other forum--I didn't think myself much of an expert (I still don't), and I didn't really have a lot of pressing questions.

I think we can all agree there are a few forum regulars who do like to stir the pot from time to time, but really that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The best--and worst--thing about global forums like this is that you really get representation from all walks of life, including the good, the bad, and the ugly.

That said, I don't think any of the regulars are intentionally mean-spirited, or are deliberately trying to be obstructive or unhelpful. Except that Mopar fella, of course! :mmraspberry:

1.8k · December 30, 2005

My favorite example is Rec.skiing.alpine which I think is the polar opposite of these forums. You'll have to surf forums a long time before you find a more vicious and vile place. RSA got so bad that people posting there were fired from their jobs, received death threats and had their tires slashed. At one point it went to court and a judge stepped in and ruled that one person had to refrain from posting for a year.

Most of the other forms I've visited are somewhere in betwen RSA and here, but I've found few that were friendlier than GC.COM

I've seen you point this out before and I laughed ... it's like 'Alpine skiing' come on, what's is so bad aas about that? It's not something I think would attract the lunatic fringe ... that is until I lurked there for awhile. OMG, those people are nuts ... :laughing:

1.8k · December 30, 2005

I seem to notice, that people who enjoy going outside and doing outdoor things are in general a lot friendlier.

And Apline Skiing isn't an outdoors thing? :laughing:

2.5k · December 30, 2005

Well you got a point there. :laughing:

Forget the outdoors thing, are geocachers friendlier?

(From what I hear skiers are jerks, but I woulden't know. )

8.4k · December 30, 2005

My favorite example is Rec.skiing.alpine which I think is the polar opposite of these forums.

In the few times you've referenced that forum, Ive never botherd to look..... Until now. :laughing:

While there, I kept hearing the raspy voice of The Humungus, in The Road Warrior saying, "Just walk away!"

Jeesh, talk about obsessive.

I hope those folks don't discover geocaching.

38.2k · December 30, 2005

As a general rule, do you think we geocachers are a little more friendly than people in other hobbies? I seem to notice, that people who enjoy going outside and doing outdoor things are in general a lot friendlier.

I spent a good part of today with a person I never met in my life and we had a nice time together. Ok, so Tiffany cost me $300.

Seriously, I met WascoZooKeeper for a morning cache hunt because he was in the area. We had never met before but I felt we had an immediate bond and had an enjoyable time despite the nasty weather. I noticed that our conversation often centered on other geocachers and "how so and so stayed at my house" or "when I went camping with who and who". All people we met through geocaching.

It reinforced my opinion that this is generally one of the closest and nicest groups of people around.

Edited December 30, 2005 by briansnat

December 30, 2005

Interesting how someone can frame a "markwell" as a negative. There is lots of information here and some subjects have been hashed over ad nauseam. I don't see anything wrong with pointing newcomers to previous discussions where they may find a wealth of information.

It's all dependant on the method of the responder. Referencing another thread and/or a FAQ isn't necessarily a bad thing. Let me give 2 examples.

Example 1. The reply consists of nothing but a link, and the link consists of nothing but an address.

This:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...02&f=6&t=117883

instead of This:

This thread answers your question

Both give the same information, but the 2nd is a little less stark and may be more inviting to the newbie.

Example 2. Responder says something along the lines of "We know what you're going thru, as we've all been there. Here's a link to a (recent) thread that talked about it." and then posts a link, preferably like the 2nd link above.

As above, this would seem more welcoming to someone who is new, especially if we're talking about an environment where there is a lot of jargon and 'inside' information; a place where the learning curve is pretty steep.

December 30, 2005

Wow...I just started and I'm on this forum AND the Southern California geocachers forum.

Everyone here is so friendly....I've never been jumped on or sniped. I've felt stupid for asking a question but that was ALL ME...not something anyone here made me feel. LOL

You guys are so helpful and welcoming it's hard for me to imagine anyone thinking otherwise, but everyone is different. I think it says a lot for the type of people you guys are that you're discussing whether it's an issue and seeing if you can make anything better. I'm part of a forum for an online game I play and those people are RUDE, CRAZY and just generally MEAN.

Some of you may be CRAZY, but I've never seen you rude or mean. I think you're all a bunch of righteously fabulous dudes and dudettes. :-)

Group hug!

38.2k · December 30, 2005

Some of you may be CRAZY, but I've never seen you rude or mean. I think you're all a bunch of righteously fabulous dudes and dudettes. :-)

Brownoser.

2.6k · December 30, 2005

Interesting how someone can frame a "markwell" as a negative. There is lots of information here and some subjects have been hashed over ad nauseam. I don't see anything wrong with pointing newcomers to previous discussions where they may find a wealth of information.

When I was new, it seemed like every time a thread was getting interesting, some smarty pants would plop a markwell in the middle and kill it stone dead. Then I'd read the link and find some some useful information that made me think of additional questions, which I couldn't ask because it was a year-old, dead thread full of ex-cachers that my sad newbie question would appear on page 6 of.

The most useful markwells are ones that point to outside resources. You know, great map reading or compass buying sites and the like that you'll want to bookmark for reference. Less helpful to downright frustrating: links to old GC threads. Yeah, some subjects are going to come up again and again and again, but there seems to be no shortage of people who are willing to answer the question, and there's no 'vintage' superiority to old answers. Remember, the cacher with three months experience who can answer the questions of the cacher whose GPS is in the mail is getting a kick out of it, too.

3.9k · December 30, 2005

I spent a good part of today with a person I never met in my life and we had a nice time together. Ok, so Tiffany cost me $300.

Urk! Eeek! Tiffany charged me $450 last time I was in New Jersey! But, she is very good at finding caches!

3.9k · December 30, 2005

Interesting how someone can frame a "markwell" as a negative. There is lots of information here and some subjects have been hashed over ad nauseam. I don't see anything wrong with pointing newcomers to previous discussions where they may find a wealth of information.

When I was new, it seemed like every time a thread was getting interesting, some smarty pants would plop a markwell in the middle and kill it stone dead. Then I'd read the link and find some some useful information that made me think of additional questions, which I couldn't ask because it was a year-old, dead thread full of ex-cachers that my sad newbie question would appear on page 6 of.

The most useful markwells are ones that point to outside resources. You know, great map reading or compass buying sites and the like that you'll want to bookmark for reference. Less helpful to downright frustrating: links to old GC threads. Yeah, some subjects are going to come up again and again and again, but there seems to be no shortage of people who are willing to answer the question, and there's no 'vintage' superiority to old answers. Remember, the cacher with three months experience who can answer the questions of the cacher whose GPS is in the mail is getting a kick out of it, too.

Auntie, thanks for these useful obsrevations. Personally, I much love the replies (aka "Markwells") in nearly-new threads which provide links to older threads which are very relevant, as those older threads not only often answer the question asked by the OP, but also often provide lots of other information as well. However -- and I think this is the key point -- I feel that the key to offering a link to an older thread which likely answers the question or covers the topic is that it is NOT necessary to offer it as a thread-killer, as in:

"This has already been discussed in past threads, particularly in these three [1, 2, 3] and therefore please do not bring this subject up again. We are killing this current thread."

but rather to offer it as follows one option to pursue for further information, while allowing the current thread to also take its own evolutionary course; such an open-ended reply might be as follows:

"This has already been discussed, and these questions answered, in past threads, particularly in these three [1, 2, 3], so please feel free to peruse these threads to learn more. Then, if you have further comments, we can continue the discussion here, as many of these topics are evolutionary, meaning that there are always new thoughts, new developments and new perspectives!"

BTW Auntie, that mustelid wearing the Santa cap in your current forum icon -- the one with the bared fangs -- appears very threatening to me and is giving me nightmares! My beagle Toby, who serves as my attorney as well, will be in touch shortly to bill you for the three-times-per-day psychotherapy sessions I have been forced to seek out due to that scary picture.

December 30, 2005

this forum is practically squeaky-clean, compared to many out there. heck, i belong to one that makes that rec. skiing gang look like sunday dinner with the osmond family.

7.2k · December 30, 2005

The OP reminds me of politics. The vast majority of folks go about their lives blissfully unaware of what goes on in the chambers of those who control their lives.

I was one such person until The Recent Unpleasantness came along. (No, I'm not a native South Carolinian, so I'm not talking about the Civil War.) I, for one, was rather taken aback by the viciousness and the lies told by elected officials, even when they knew they were on public TV! ( I guess they assume no one important watches SCETV. )

Someone said once of the forums, to paraphrase, that here is where those who lead, lead. Everyone else just goes along for the ride.

I can see that. Many of the spirited discussion we have here are about general policy and the direction the hobby is taking. The actual discussion are simple minutiae, but needs doing. I know some folks simply don't feel confident enough to jump into a public, spirited conversation and that's fine. That shouldn't stop them from emailing and supporting those who think similar to themselves in a more private setting. I get a few such emails from time to time. It helps to know I'm not the only one who feels the way I do. So, there is a way for those folks who don't want to participate publicly to participate. That's probably the whole idea behind the Private Messaging functions of forums--not just love notes to a "friend."

Forums can be tough and some posters can be intimidating. Just remember, few posters are the same in person as in the forums. Some will talk tough, might even be able to string a few harsh words together in a coherent flame, but in person, completely different.

One thing that helped me in the forums is realizing that one day you might meet this person. You really want to back up your words in person? Since that day, I've not made a single post where that wasn't on my mind.

I think if everyone posted thinking that, the few incidents that we do have would be far fewer.

EDIT: clarity

Edited December 30, 2005 by CoyoteRed

18.9k · December 30, 2005

Once I figured out that I shouldn't take things so personally and that some folks here just have a bit of an odd tilt toward humor, I felt much more comfortable. Really is quite a friendly place and 99% of the time people are really trying to offer good help and opinions.

Sometimes, however, we just sort of agree to disagree. However, I would be honored to meet anybody I have ever "chatted" with in this forum.

Edited December 30, 2005 by StarBrand

December 30, 2005

I think it's a tough balance, espeically for any community. Someone did mention above about the idea that this is a club, and newbies (myself included) are trying to see how they fit it, and if they can. And it's hard, it really is. I help to run a large forum and website elsewhere on the web (take a left, go two blocks and then make another left, just past the....), and I was around since its inception. That made the process a moot point almost, since we were all working on the same thing (a series of puzzles which involved geocaching actually) and it brought us together to build this huge community and information resource. Trying to become a part of other communities is tough, I feel I've been the most successful here (but it's still a slow process).

One thing I have noticed (and I don't disagree with how Groundspeak has it set up, just an idea) is that many people can bond quickly and feel more involved with the access to the 'off-topic' forum. Right now, my concentration is finishing my college education and I don't want to pay for premium membership for fear I won't study as much as I need to, and consequently, I don't have access to the 'off-topic' goodness, hence, I think I'm becoming a part of the community, just very slowly.

In the end though, it all comes down to how we each see things, individually. Just like the game, which we should play how we want to play, the same goes with forums. Someone else's opinions may be different, even opposite, how we feel about this forum (this home for many), but to that person, it is their truth, their reality. To deny what another is seeing is very harsh, to try to defend your home should be expected. The hardest thing is to accept the other, different view and continue to move on, hopefully together.

We've had our fair share of drama, harshness, hackers and of course the wonderful day when an old-staff member went crazy, took over the forum and our coder was on vacation, and these kind of debates come up a lot (also do the fact that they are a quite a few other forums for the same series and we are one of the largest, so we try to keep it family oriented). I've found myself discussing communication theory on many occasions, and if anyone is interested, I'm always open to discussion and comments, just send me a PM or an E-mail.

(and a reply to someone's comment above somewhere, I do think geocachers are nicer than other 'niche markets,' other cachers have always been very friendly to me, much more so than when I tried to learn how to ski, which was a fun day, although I really just fell down the hills instead of skiing down them...)

1.8k · December 30, 2005

(briansnat @ Dec 29 2005, 08:00 PM)

My favorite example is Rec.skiing.alpine which I think is the polar opposite of these forums.

This is why I snowshoe, I guess....

3k · December 30, 2005

Less helpful to downright frustrating: links to old GC threads.

I link to old GC threads all the time, it never occurred to me that anyone would find this practice frustrating.

In fact, I did it in this very thread!

I get lots of thank yous, either public or private, so I'll continue to respond to posts this way. It would be unfortunate if this frustrates some people, but I think the old threads can be very helpful and are often quite entertaining.

Why They Lurk

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