Definition Of "recommended At Night"

[+Jamie Z]

I was reminded by a post in the geocaching topics forum...

 

When I first saw this attribute, I thought "Night Cache." That is, one of those caches that typically utilize fire tacks posted on trees which require you to shine with a flashlight.

 

When the PQ-by-attribute feature first came out, I did a local pocket query for "Recommended at Night" caches hoping to find some night caches I didn't already know about. The resulting PQ produced scores of hits, and upon looking at the individual caches, I found that most people used this attribute simply if the cache was available at night, or maybe would make a good night hunt because it's easy, or in a spooky location, or whatnot. Otherwise, most of those caches with this attribute were standard traditional caches, and not Night Caches in the sense that darkness was necessary to find it.

 

Is that the overwhelming thought about the Recommended at Night attribute? If so, I stongly suggest that a "Night Cache Only" attribute be created.

 

Jamie

[+the hermit crabs]

Like you, I associated the "recommended at night" attribute with "Night cache". I was thinking that caches that are do-able at night, but not specifically "night caches", would have the "24/7" attribute rather than the "recommended at night". But I can see how other people would interpret it differently.

[Jeremy]

Wouldn't "Requires flashlight" be more useful?

[+the hermit crabs]

Wouldn't "Requires flashlight" be more useful?

 

I have been to some caches that required a flashlight, because they were inside tunnels or caves. But a flashlight won't help you find firetacks on trees at noon -- those types really do need to be "night only".

[+Jamie Z]

Wouldn't "Requires flashlight" be more useful?

Good suggestion. Perhaps too limited scope, though. All the night caches I've found required only a flashlight, but I've read and heard about other night caches which require UV lights, spotlights, or other not-just-a-flashlight equipment.

 

Also, to make it UK compliant, the attribute should be "Requires Torch." That sounds cooler

 

Jamie

[Jeremy]

I think you may be misunderstanding the idea of attributes then. The idea of an attribute is to help further describe a cache but it doesn't necessarily mean the attribute directly defines it. "Recommended at Night" can be spooky style cache or it can be a firetack cache. I'm not sure why there needs to be a night cache attribute. Can't you just get them and read the descriptions to determine which is which?

[+The Blue Quasar]

What is a FireTack?

 

I am only asking because I've seen a lot of times where the main forum posters have made comment about it being against the guidelines of Geocaching to nail things to trees.

 

The only thing I found in the most current Listing Requirements is

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

 

  <snip>

    * Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a clue or a logging method.

    </snip>

 

 

I've always wanted to create a Night time ONLY cache, like the ones mentioned above, but since it is against the guidelines to nail things to trees, I had no idea how to.

 

I've seen reflective tape used once for an event, but not for a permanent (as far as that goes) cache.

 

As for the topic, "recommended" being arbitrary at best... I take it to mean "The best way to enjoy this cache is after dark"

 

This is just like the Winter Friendly topic... no matter how it is worded, it's up to individual interpretation.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+StarBrand]

night = time between sunset and sunrise

 

I've generally used it to mean that the cache is indeed accessible at night and doesn't provide any addtional extreme challenges when using a flashlight.

 

I think it makes sense to somehow mark a cache as "night only" but I don't view the attribute as the best place for this.

[Jeremy]

I've generally used it to mean that the cache is indeed accessible at night and doesn't provide any addtional extreme challenges when using a flashlight.

Do you recommend the cache at night or in the daytime?

[+Lil Devil]

To me there is a big difference between the "available at all times" attribute which means it can be found at night while "recommended at night" means it is best experienced at night. Fire-tack based night caches, would, by definition, be "recommended at night" even though I often hear about weirdos that insist on doing them during the day

A simple micro in a town square under a streetlight might be "available at all times", and a night-time find might be advantageous because there are fewer muggles, but it should not be "recommended at night."

[+Jamie Z]

A simple micro in a town square under a streetlight might be "available at all times", and a night-time find might be advantageous because there are fewer muggles, but it should not be "recommended at night."

But this seems to be the most common use of the attribute.

 

I was looking for some way to differentiate caches which happen to be fun at night from caches which can only be found at night, because as it is now, when I went to search for a night-time cache, I got several hundred matches within my area which used the "Recommended at Night" attribute.

 

Owing to Jeremy's clarification of the use of attributes, I realize that "Night Cache" is probably too broad for an attribute. What about "Darkness Required" ?

 

Jamie

[Jeremy]

But this seems to be the most common use of the attribute.

It doesn't say available at night, but recommended at night. If people aren't going to read why would you think another attribute would help?

 

This isn't meant to be a "smart" question, but a valid one. If you feel strongly about the misuse of a "recommended at night" attribute, kick off an email to people who use it as feedback.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Jeremy

[+Jamie Z]

It doesn't say available at night, but recommended at night. If people aren't going to read why would you think another attribute would help?

 

This isn't meant to be a "smart" question, but a valid one. If you feel strongly about the misuse of a "recommended at night" attribute, kick off an email to people who use it as feedback.

Because it says "Recommended," I think people are reading. Example--I have a traditional cache which gives a pretty good view of the city if one were to visit at night. I might recommend the cache at night.

 

I don't think the attribute is being abused. It's just that when I first saw the attribute, my first thought went to night caches. Perhaps it was my own lack of reading. Clearly, many, many other cachers view this attribute for exactly what it says.

 

Although this thread wasn't intended to offer a site suggestion, I was originally just interested in how other people interpreted the "Recommended at Night" attribute.

 

Now, though... I do think an additional attribute is a good idea. Like you said, "Flashlight Required" or "Darkness Required." Much like it's fun to go out and find a cache which requires a boat or climbing gear, I sometimes want to purposely go find a cache which requires that I navigate the woods with a flashlight and search out tacks or other night-time only characteristics.

 

Jamie

[+DreadPirateRoberts]

I think it's also confusing because the "not recommended at night" attribute is often used for cemetary caches, or ones which for other reasons should be hunted only in the daytime. So, you have this situation:

 

Not recommended at night = daytime cache

 

Recommended at night = nightcache / scenic view at night / less muggles / ??

 

There's not really a way to express that a cache should be hunted only at night, as you can for daytime.

 

EDIT: I guess you could do this for a nightcache:

 

- not available 24/7

AND

- recommended at night

 

However, I think that would break the general interpretation of "no 24/7", which generally means it's not available at night. However, it would be technically correct for a nightcache.

Edited December 28, 2005 by DreadPirateRoberts

[+StarBrand]

I've generally used it to mean that the cache is indeed accessible at night and doesn't provide any addtional extreme challenges when using a flashlight.

Do you recommend the cache at night or in the daytime?

When I've used it - I mean both.

 

Just my own confusion now that I really think about it.

[+RJFerret]

Most night caches around here use both "24/7" & "Recommended" attributes on their night caches (and I did on mine). I defined mine as "unknown" but have seen 'em as "multi" or even "traditional"!?!!

 

...further describe a cache but it doesn't necessarily mean the attribute directly defines it...

 

But isn't the practical application to be able to search out caches so described?

 

Standards allow the computer to do the work automagically rather than users to read manually.

 

A manual alternative is for someone to maintain a Bookmark list of night caches in your area (as thankfully has been done in mine). Unfortunately that relies on someone bringing a new one to his attention.

 

(You can also try using Google to search for "Night Cache" in your state but I found results limited.)

 

hth,

 

Randy

[+briansnat]

What is a FireTack?

 

I am only asking because I've seen a lot of times where the main forum posters have made comment about it being against the guidelines of Geocaching to nail things to trees.

 

A fire tack is a temporary reflective tack similar to a thumb tack. Its different than a nail in that it doesn't reach the heartwood of a tree so there is no damage, and its easily removed when the cache is retired.

[+adambro]

I've had a little rant about the attribute thing recently. My particular issue was with people using the 'Boat Required' attribute for caches that are near a river, canal etc. I don't understand where the confusion comes from. 'Boat Required' seems clear enough, it means you need a boat!

 

Now we can run PQ's based on attributes, it's helpful if people use them correctly.

[markandlynn]

To me the definition of a night cache is one recommended at night attribute and another not available 24/7 attribute.

If we ask people with firetack / uv / ingenious method that only works at night to use those two the search would be easy.

[+Stuey]

I have used the NOT version of the recommended at night attribute, which is much more useful in some ways.