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Reverse Placement Method For Waymarking


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The idea of the directory is a great idea for sorting the exising Catagories for Waymarks, but I'm starting to notice that it isn't easy to figure out what can be listed as a Waymark.

 

In the beginning of the New Year I was planning on placing a lot of Waymarks in our downtown area. Things like LIBRARY, TIME CAPSULE, MICRO BREWERY... you get the idea I'm sure.

 

Then I was going to host a Geocaching Event, and as part of the Event there would be a Waymarking WALKING TOUR of the Waymarks around the downtown.

 

I thought this would be a great way to promote Waymarking, and attract the Geocachers over to see the new game.

 

But then I ran into the problem... how do I know what I can WAYMARK? Sure, there is the directory and even the search option... but when one doesn't exist and you can't see a whole list of possible Waymarks... what can one do?

 

Is there a method to have a fully expanded "tree" of all the types of Waymarks? This would sure help people create new Waymarks.

 

Filling the pool of Waymarks would be easier if a list was readily available to view.

 

This differs from wanting own a catagory... I want to place within existing catagories.

 

As examples, is there a "Converted Banks" Catagory? Sure I could look in PLACES>BUILDINGS but that assumes that I know what I want.

 

The reverse make sense too. If I can see the hole I can fill it up. If there was a list of possible Waymarks, I can provide content to it based upon what is around me.

 

That's what Locationless used to be.... "Find a Converted Bank", but now it is hidden too deep or too many paths to walk down each one. But if I could easily see that in an expanded list I could make a checklist of places that match the Catagories.

 

I don't know if that makes sense, I know what I want to see to make the creation of new Waymarks easier... and thus generate more interest in Waymarking.

 

:P The Blue Quasar

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I agree with The Blue Quasar. A tree structure of the Directory that could be expanded or collapsed as desired would help.

 

The category search doesn't help if there is an existing category that matches what you are looking for but goes by a different name than what you would call the category.

 

Also, the three major categories of people, places, and things sounds distintive, but I can think of many categories that could be listed under at least two of the major categories. One example is historical markers. They are things, they are located at places and tell something about the places, and they are often about people that were at the places. So the placement of historical markers into one of the major categories is very arbitrary.

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A tree would be cool. However, such things can be difficult to get onto a screen, even with a lot of scrolling included. Imagine how it might look with 300 categories. :laughing:

 

The Blue Quasar - could you show us what you mean here in the forum with just the current list of categories and maybe making up just a few more to illustrate?

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In the old days of locationless caches there were lists like This One generated to make it easier to know what was available and so you could check off ones you'd found.

 

I agree with BQ that the ability to create a similar list is needed with Waymarking. A listing like:

 

                                      PLACES

Category                   SubCategory                 SubSubCategory

Business/Commerce             Bars                      Brew Pubs
                                                        Pubs and Inns
                              Restaurants               McDonalds
                                                        Sushi Bars
                                                        Tim Hortons

etc etc

 

This would make it a lot easier to carry around a printout of what waymark categories are out there and look out for them to log. Right now there's no easy way to do this that I've found.

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We have discussed this before in the office. I think what we'll do is provide a PDF that contains every category's short summary and list of requirements (including variables). That way you can search the document to look for stuff you may want to waymark.

 

However, I do think that communities will grow around particular categories anyway. I don't expect folks to try and mark everything though they certainly can if they want to!

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I occasionally find something that would make a great waymark and snap a photo and mark the coordinates for it. For example I have two great breakfast spots that need a home on Waymarking.com.

 

Obviously I can make the category myself (and I may do so), but I acknowledge that people will find things that are cool but don't know where it would go. Hopefully when group functionality appears people will start a category by finding something they like first, marking it, and introducing it as a new category. Waymarking category experts could then help you put your specific waymark in its category or spontaneously create a new group to manage a new one.

 

The whole excitement over folksonomies, or using keywords to describe something, is intriguing, and so is the "anyone can edit" style like wikipedia, but I'm hoping that having communities around specific categories will help to provide the openness of wikipedia with a human categorizing of folksonomies. If that makes sense.

Edited by Jeremy
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The whole excitement over folksonomies, or using keywords to describe something, is intriguing, and so is the "anyone can edit" style like wikipedia, but I'm hoping that having communities around specific categories will help to provide the openness of wikipedia with a human categorizing of folksonomies. If that makes sense.

That makes a LOT of sense....especially the notion of a Wikipedia-like 'anyone can edit' concept. Perhaps the idea of 'ownership' of items needs to be reviewed. Perhaps waymarks don't need 'ownership'? Anyone can post one, and anyone can edit/update? Or perhaps there's a need for some to be individually 'owned', but others might be considered 'open source' (in a sense) and updatable in Wikipedia-like fashion.(??)

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Yes, Hard Oiler's description is exactly what I mean.

 

Sure for topics that started us off, it was easy to look through and say "Yup I know where one is" or "Nope, ain't got that around here"

 

But there are too many now to do that. This is not a complaint about too much variety ( how could I?)

 

So right now, I walk down the street and say "Hmmm I wonder if that is a Waymark yet?" Then I get home and look. If yes, no problem but if no, then what? Hang onto the info and hope for the best.

 

But that doesn't help MAKE Waymarks.

 

Now, if I had the suggested PDF thing that spread out like a tree, and carried it along the street... I could easily look for "Candy Store" or "Square Manhole Cover" or "Self-Serve Business Card Printer" or "Historical Homestead" whatever... sure I might not catch every one, but far easier than finding a dozen possibles and getting one good one

 

Even if the TREE was on the Waymarking site... I would be able to see ALL Possible holes that can be filled.

 

You show me the holes, I provide the seeds for my area, and we can watch the garden grow. Right now, I have to stumble across the holes myself. If you want me to grow the garden, you kinda have to tell me where the garden is going to be.

 

Not the greatest analogy, but I'm really having trouble expressing it.

 

;) The Blue Quasar

 

Edit: Typo

Edited by The Blue Quasar
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Well, it ain't open season yet, so the list is still fairly small. ;)

Not too hard to make with vi, etc.

The newest category on this list is: Independent Coffee Houses

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

People
       Art
               Ansel Adams Photo Hunt
               Equestrian Statues
       Internet
               Bloggers
       Memorials
               American Revolutionary War Veteran Graves
               Dead Poets' Society Memorials
               Medal Of Honor Resting Places
               Out of Place Graves
               Pony Express Monuments
               Vasco da Gama
               Vietnam POW/MIA Monuments
       People Watching
               Celebrity Hangouts
               Pikachu Sightings
       Scouting
               Boy Scout Camps
               Eagle Scout Project Sites
       Tour Guides
               Geocaching Tour Guides
       World Leaders
               Presidential Birthplaces
Places
       Buildings
               Arenas
                       Curling Clubs
               Art Galleries
                       Junk Design Houses
               Astronomical Observatories
               Castles
               Coastal Lighthouses
               Concert Halls
               Earth Homes
               Firehouses
               Gender Separated Entrances
               Jazz Clubs
               Landlocked Lighthouses
               Lavoir (wash houses)
               Libraries
               Octagon Buildings
               Odd-Shaped Buildings
               Quonset Huts
               Religious Buildings
                       Masonic Temples
                       Trappist Abbeys
               Relocated Structures
               Shot Towers
               Stadiums
                       Minor League Baseball Stadiums
               Water Mills
               Waychapels
       Business/Commerce
               Bars
                       Brewpubs
                       Pubs and Inns
               Independent Coffee Houses
               Restaurants
                       Classic BBQ & Sandwich Joints
                       McDonald's Restaurants
                       Sushi Restaurants
               Stores/Retail
                       Bicycle Shops
                       Independent Music Stores
                       Mom and Pop Rock Shops
               Wineries
       Camping / Hiking
               Appalachian Trail
               Campgrounds
               Free Overnight RV Parking Locations
               Ice Age Trail
               Mountain Bike Trailheads
               Scenic Hikes
       Conservation
               Civilian Conservation Corps
               Turtle Crossings
       Coordinate Play
               Coordinate Palindromes
               Greenwich Meridian Markers
               Where's In A Name?
       Cultural Places
               World Heritage Sites
       Disaster Sites
               Plane Crash Sites
               Shipwrecks
       Earth Science Places
               Active Quarries
               Earthcaches
               Rock-Hounding
       Entertainment
               All Things Star Wars
               Amusement Parks
               Bars
               Bookcrossing Zones
               Bungee Jump Sites
               Butterfly Houses
               Casinos
               Disc Golf Courses
               Locations
               Mazes
               Movie Theaters
               Sports Locations
               Tours
               Zoos
       Festivals
               Hot Air Balloon Festivals new
               Renaissance Fairs 
       Fishing
               Fishing Holes
       Historic Places
               Civil Rights Memorials
               Irish-American Historic Places
               Old World Originals
               Photos Then and Now
               Spring Houses
       Hunting/Gathering
               Berry Picking
       Internet
               News Article Locations
               Wi-Fi Hotspots
               Wikipedia Entries
       Lodging
       Military
               Military Installations
       Natural Places
               Cave Entrances
               Hot Springs
               Mountain Summits
               Summit Registers
               Swimming Holes
       Parks
               Botanical Gardens
               NPS Passport Cancellation Stations
       Pet-Friendly Places
               Dog Friendly Hotels
               Off-Leash Dog Areas
       Ruins
               Ghost Towns
               Iron Furnace Ruins
               Luftwaffe Radar Ruins
       Strange/Weird
               Devilish Locations
               Oddball Museums
               Weird Story Locations
       Transportation
               Airports
               Plank Roads
Things
       Animals
               Pet Cemetaries
       Art
               Art*o*mats
               Compass Roses
               Fiberglass Horses
               Murals
               Painted Hydrants
               Sculptures
                       Insect Sculptures
                       Sphinx Sculptures
               Statues
                       Atlas Statues
                       Inukshuks
                       Lion Statues
                       Musician Statues
       Benchmarks
               Canadian Benchmarks
               Portugal Geodetic Points
               Recovered US Benchmarks
               UK Trigpoints
               Vértices Geodésicos
       Entertainment
               Giant Board Games
       Historic Things
               Ancient Aqueducts
               California Historic Markers
               Georgia Historic Markers
               Moon Trees
               Ohio Historic Markers
               Pennsylvania Historic Markers
               Pictographs
               Time Capsules
               Town Clocks
       Machines
               Amateur Radio Repeaters
               Foucault Pendulums
               Outdoor Warning Sirens
               Payphones
               Penny Smashers
       Memorials
               Peace Poles
       Musical Things
               Musical Instruments
               Outdoor Wind Harps
       Natural Things
               Natural Arches
               Waterfalls
       Oddities
               Funny Mailboxes
               Ginormous Everyday Objects
               Simulacra
       Plants and Trees
               Millenium Trees
               Native American Trail Trees
       Seasonal/Holiday
               Holiday Displays
       Signs
               "Z" Welcome Signs
               Automobile Association signs
               Border Crossings
               Ghost Signs
               Lincoln Highway Markers
               Small Town, Big Name
               Unusual Speed Limits
               Yellow Arrow Lookup
       Structures
               Bridges
                       Moving Bridges
                       Pedestrian Suspension Bridges
                       Vertical Lift Bridges
               Disguised Cell Towers
               Fountains
               Remote Backcountry Shelters
               Unique Bird Houses
               Unique Weathervanes
               Water Towers
               Windmills
       Surveillance
               Web Cameras
       Vehicles
               Art Vehicles
               Covered Wagons
               Dead Vehicles
               Fire Fighting Vehicles
               Kissmobile Sightings
               Old Tractors

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Ya, wouldn't it be nice if it was a wiki? We could keep it up as new ones are added.

 

How about with all of the categories in the list being active links like in the current index?

 

It might be nice to have the list include some cool icons to indicate basic requirements - pic of object required, pic of GPSr required, pic of you required, coordinates required, etc.

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Anyone hear of a "permuted index?"

 

It'd be an additional alternative to the tree. The tree is useful if the taxonomy always makes sense to everyone, but a taxonomy for "all things" could easily have multiple solutions. Just ask two Object Oriented Designers of the world to solve the same problem and see if you get the same object taxonomy. :D

 

So in addition to the tree, each category's "name" and "brief description" can be sent through a PTX generator and the results alphabetized. All significant words in the name or description create an entry in the list.

 

The permuted index can be verbose, but quite useful when a concept might appear in more than one place.

 

Tools for doing this have been used in the UNIX community since the mid '70s to index documentation.

 

Now, if I had the suggested PDF thing that spread out like a tree, and carried it along the street... I could easily look for "Candy Store" or "Square Manhole Cover" or "Self-Serve Business Card Printer" or "Historical Homestead" whatever... sure I might not catch every one, but far easier than finding a dozen possibles and getting one good one

 

A PTX of the listings would have an entry for each key word:

  • business -- self-serve business card printer
  • candy -- candy store
  • card -- self-serve business card printer
  • cover -- square manhole cover
  • historical -- historical homestead
  • homestead -- historical homestead
  • manhole -- square manhole cover
  • printer -- self-serve business card printer
  • self-serve -- self-serve business card printer
  • square -- square manhole cover
  • store -- candy store

Just imagine such a list of all the waymark categories. You see a store, you'd see all the store types together, all the business types together, etc.

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my issue is with the 'newest' categories list. it is the newest CREATED not LISTED. i recently have taken over the shpinx statue category. i edited and posted the description. however, it was not at the 'top' of the list. it is way down in the 'tree'.

 

so then, could there be another link for newest POSTED categories?

 

there does need to be some sort of 'check list'. when i find a category i want to add something in--whether it is around me, or i need to find it--i add it to my favorites, so that i might find it again. once i have added a mark in the category, i remove it from my favs. it will then be in 'my marks' (if i can remember what the name is, and approximately what page that starts on; i have like 24 pages of marks at this point), if i can possibly log it, meeting requirements, i do. this makes 'easy viewing' for what you have posted in what categories. [one page of icons, like GC.com]

 

this checklist for the whole site seems to be an impossible task. yes, now, it seems to be pretty managable, but when it is 'open season' it might be really hard. how many categories are going to be suggested on the 'first day'? i think tht we would need a tree in itself for this day alone. but what about in 2010--5 year anniversary of Waymarking--when there are probably going to be thousands upon thousands of categories?

 

what about some way, in the 'tree' to have a 'star' or something next to the category if i have voted positively for the category? then, when going through the directory, i will know if i should vote or not. just because i do not want to participate in the category does not mean that i do not feel that it might be valuable for others.

 

i also agree with the non-ownership of some waymarks--i dont care to get an email when someone visits the pay phone in tribble mill park, but if someone visits the University of Georgia marker in the Georgia Historical markrs category, i would like to get an email of their log.

 

tribble mill's phone is not importnt to me, as i 'found it' while out, the UGA marker is located in the 'middle of my home town', therefore, those logs are important to me--letting me know 'whats going on' downtown. was there a protest that day, a festival going on, etc?

 

now that coffee houses and music stores are categories, it is a good time to use the stickers. mark your independent places, then ask if you can put a sticker in the window, writing the WM# on it or the coords, for searching. you can search by coords cant you? this would generate some ads for Waymarking. as you are sitting outside the coffee house, you see the sticker. since there is probably wireless net as well, you visit Waymarking.com and see what it is about, maybe creating a new account and logging the coffeehouse. wouldnt that be a great log? 'i was drinking my coffee and saw a sticker. that sticker changed my life in that...........'

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az_pistolero -

 

I do recall permuted lists and the unix index from back in the early 1970s. The length of the permuted list is of course the number of words in all the categories' names. Many categories have just one word, but some have 3 or 4. The wordcount for the file I uploaded is 236 lines and 498 words, a ratio of 2.1 Not so bad, really, so perhaps a permuted list could work. There would be a few junk lines, like ones beginning with "&", "Junk", or "Unique".

 

ChapterhouseInc -

 

What you want is to have the whole list customized just for you (and just for each person). That's a tall order, I'd say.

 

The voting thing was, I thought, for giving feedback on how the category is being run, not whether or not you like the items of the category or whether you think other people besides yourself would like it. Perhaps I'm off base here and the voting is for just anything.

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The voting thing was, I thought, for giving feedback on how the category is being run, not whether or not you like the items of the category or whether you think other people besides yourself would like it. Perhaps I'm off base here and the voting is for just anything.

'voting' as it is, is a premuim member function.

thus PMs vote on categories. i think only the top 50% of categories are open to nonPMs. i have my filter on 100%.

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Oh I wasn't wondering who could vote. Instead I was wondering what the vote would signify. In other words, a positive vote would mean one or more of:

 

1. I like the kind of objects that this category is made of although I may never make a waymark for it.

 

2. I like the way this category is managed although I may never make a waymark for it.

 

3. Even though I am not particularly interested in the type of items in this category, and will probably never make a waymark for it, I think it is somewhat interesting and others should be able to see it.

 

4. I enjoy making waymarks for the kind of things in this category and have no problem with its management so I'm voting for it.

 

Conversely, if someone didn't agree with just #1 (they don't like bars or something) OR just #2 (they don't like some aspect of the management of the category), should they vote against it even if they never intended to particpate in making waymarks or logs for it?

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Black Dog Tracker,

 

Thanks for the tree. :) I printed it out and it is just over five (5) pages long.

 

A permuted index of the category names and short descriptions also would be very useful. One thing the person who proposed the permuted index didn't mention is that non-key words can be filtered out of the index.

 

I would like to see both the category tree and the permuted index added to the Waymarking site and updated on a regular basis. Of course, the present staff has many other irons in the fire so I don't expect to see these soon.

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  • 8 months later...

We have discussed this before in the office. I think what we'll do is provide a PDF that contains every category's short summary and list of requirements (including variables). That way you can search the document to look for stuff you may want to waymark.

 

However, I do think that communities will grow around particular categories anyway. I don't expect folks to try and mark everything though they certainly can if they want to!

 

I have to disagree with you Jeremy that folks will not try to mark everything. I, and many others from my readings of the Waymarking forums, would like to be able to add interesting things to whatever category they may belong to. When I see an interesting building I would like to be able to find the building category it best fits and waymark it. When I see an interesting place I would like to be able to find the place category it best fits and waymark it. And when I will go hunting for existing waymarks, I will not just hunt for one or two categories, I will try to hunt for all existing waymarks in the area.

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yes, but there are several responses to your statements:

 

-i too, search for 'all categories'--in order of liking, then i have been forced to branch out in category searching to continue doing so. although i HATE pdfs, if that is how i have to get a 'list' to carry with me so i 'know what to do', then so be it.....i was hoping for something more along the lines of i choose from the 'tree', and can get a printer friendly version of the choosen categories.

 

-as far as going into town, gathering info for the 'cool thing', and coming back to post it--that is a long way off. i am rather new to GC.com, but i am sure it did not look, offer, or operate like it does over night. in all actuality, there are very few 'waymarkers' across the globe. categories are being created for 'your cool thing', but it takes someone with an intrest in that 'type of thing' and creating a group/category for it.

 

--in your 'Waymarking' you are bound to find something someone has alredy posted. it is rather tedious to go out for the purposes of logging waymarks; if you happen to have some posted by others in your area. personally, i think that this 'locationless' Waymarking is better than when 'everything has been waymarked' and you are just visiting. in locating you are able to find something and tell the world it is there, but some of those should be great sources of 'tales' in the future (its all about the picture).

 

-there has been question as to what the Waymarking stickers (in the 'store') are for. well, it is something like the 'visa' stickers on buisnesses. there is a category for 'coffee houses' (or even try the wifi one, might even be in both). why not get a sticker, and ask the establishment if you can place it somewhere on the premesis (make sure to write the 'WM###'(s) in the box). this would be a great way to 'recruit' fellow 'gps owners'.

 

so then: if i (had no idea what Waymarking is, and) were in a coffee house with my laptop, and saw that sticker and a hand written code, i might go see what it is all about.......of course this would need to be obvious on the site--much in the way TBs are explained on the tags--and website.

 

-there has been talk about 'the future of Waymarking' in refrence to camera-phones. of course they do not produce quality of pictures to satisfy creating a waymark, but visiting them? in the future, waymarkers might not need a gps to find waymarks. with the development of mapping softwares and detail of waymark descriptions, you can find the 'town civil war memorial' with litte effort, take a picture with your phone, then 'text' the picture to 'your town's civil war memorial' waymark to create your log...................noone knows what the future might bring. we can only conject.

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FWIW, what I do...

 

I use mapopolis on my palmpilot for caching *and* Waymarking.

 

For caching, cachemate will export caches (name and coords) into the palm address book in the format that mapopolis looks for. When those are present, they show up on the map and I can see where caches are. (I don't use a mapping gps.)

 

For Waymarking, I have a simple perl script that accepts the name and coords of a waymark and spits out a vcard file. I cut & paste those from the waymark page. I can import that into the palm desktop under a 'waymarks' category, and when synched, waymarks also show up on my mapopolis map. This is typically all I need - most waymarks can be found once you get close enough to them. A library, for example. Once I'm nearby I don't need my GPS to zero in on it. :unsure:

 

So bottom line, while I'm out caching I see both geocaches and waymarks on my palmpilot map. I stop for caches, I stop for new waymarkables, I stop for existing waymarks. It makes the overall experience very nice.

 

I still wish I had 'filter out visited waymarks'....

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