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Binrat

Pretty Stars

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Great job on the new stars for cache ratings, one minute I had the old ones and then I had the new ones, cool.

 

Binrat

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I also added the GC code in the upper right hand corner. I know many people don't use them but it is a good reference.

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Good job! I like the improvements :lol:

 

oh wait.. why does it say Raine

Edited by raine

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I also like the "No attributes found." message and suggestion to add them. But I bet it would work even better if the words "adding attributes" were a link to the attributes editor.

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I like the GC-code in the upper right corner!

I allways need a lot of time figuring the number in a printout, so this is really thumb up!

 

But the stars remind me on the red soviet stars :lol::lol:

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Whoah, I *WAY* like the new stars, but even more, the huge waypoint code. I ALWAYS use those, and it is a real pain to flip through printed logs trying to find it. Can that be added to the non-PDF 'print this page' linky?

 

Either way, VERY nice tweakage! :lol:

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I also like the "No attributes found." message and suggestion to add them.

I don't, since I object to attributes on principle. :lol:

 

My favorite is the waypoint in the upper-right corner. That's going to be very helpful to me!

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Heh.

 

You won't believe this, but I just printed a series of Five-Star Terrain cards to place in one of my caches. On the card, I used the image of the terrain rating stars. Now they're changed. Argh.

 

Jeremy, is there some sort of plot against me?

 

Jamie

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Jeremy, is there some sort of plot against me?

You found me out :lol:

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I also added the GC code in the upper right hand corner. I know many people don't use them but it is a good reference.

I use them a lot - for example, I'll keep a bunch of printouts in GCxxxx order, so that when driving around and I'm near GC1234 I can find it easily.

 

Which makes me wonder: since this feature will be mainly used on paper, why doesn't it appear on the print-friendly version ? I use that to save paper and ink.

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Which makes me wonder: since this feature will be mainly used on paper, why doesn't it appear on the print-friendly version ? I use that to save paper and ink.

Heh. It is a good idea. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?

 

I'll try and add it to the print friendly page as well. Soon :lol:

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GC# in the corner!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!! Thanks!

 

Pretty stars too. :lol: A little color never hurts, although by the time I'm pulling up the page I've already chosen the ratings I want, but the number in the corner is a huge plus for me (until I replace the palm that is) Keep up the great work!

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With the nice addition of the GC number in the corner, would it be possible to put a check mark next to it if you've found it before? There's no real way to tell other than remembering every cache you've done (names change) or go through the logs. This would be very useful when people directly link to a cache page!

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Having the GC code so prominent is great. Always had trouble finding it before.

 

The new stars are good but having different colors for Difficulty and Terrain is helpful when you are doing a quick scan of the page. Maybe only unfamiliarity but I don't find that part of the page as visually easy to work with.

 

JDandDD

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Very nice changes Jeremy. I love the way this site is responsive to user input.

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a suggestion:

 

Can you extend the blue bar at the top past the GC waypoint name and make the text white or something?

there really isn't any purpose except to make it more visually appealing (to me, anyway). it just seems awkward and out of place right now.

that was the first thing that i thought when i saw it. then i thought, yes that is handy and convienient.

 

ben

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With the nice addition of the GC number in the corner, would it be possible to put a check mark next to it if you've found it before? There's no real way to tell other than remembering every cache you've done (names change) or go through the logs. This would be very useful when people directly link to a cache page!

I second this idea.

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No attributes found. Help your fellow geocachers by adding attributes about your cache!

 

I like the other changes, but this sentence is somehow irritating.

 

As long as there is no definition of what those attributes stand for, it is quite difficult to use them.

 

BalkanSabranje

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No attributes found. Help your fellow geocachers by adding attributes about your cache!

 

I like the other changes, but this sentence is somehow irritating.

Yay! It's supposed to be irritating.

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As long as there is no definition of what those attributes stand for, it is quite difficult to use them.

Use you're best judgement. It's not rocket science. There's no penalty if you don't get it perfect. But *something* is better than nothing.

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I also added the GC code in the upper right hand corner. I know many people don't use them but it is a good reference.

could you please implement this feature on the »printerfriendly page« too?

 

happy hunting - the old fashioned way (trads only, exceptions may appear)

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Good job! I like the improvements :rolleyes:

 

oh wait.. why does it say Raine

why does my post say ringbone?

 

good job on the stars btw

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Bah! Humbug! I'm probably the only one, but I don't like the new stars. The old stars were slightly bigger, brighter, and easier to see at a glance. They also matched other GC colors and were different for difficulty and terrain.

 

I also don't really like the newer top matter layout. I would much prefer all the cache stuff first, then the print/download stuff, then the disclaimer garbage. Right now, you get GC code, Name, and Coordinates interupted by the download links. Then you get the location and hide information and then interupted by the print links and disclaimer before you ever get to the stars (which I don't like anyway). :rolleyes: The way it is now, there is 4 -5 inches of wasted space at the top of each cache page between the cache name and stars.

 

I'd much prefer it compressed into something like this and put the download/print links somewhere else. These print/download links could even go in a nice little box like the travel bugs on the right if you want. I call this layout "cache-at-a-glance."

 

f3b8217a-0030-4492-a266-c2c5814351bf.jpg

 

Heck, I even miss the little postage stamp size map that used to appear next to the location and date info where the GC code is. The little mini-map breaks up the monotony of the cache page a little and didn't take up any more valuable space next to the position that I have it.

 

Finally, the disclaimer. I could understand it being on the print pages because some random stranger could pick up our cache pages and sue when they get hurt. But on the normal web view, we've already agreed to the disclaimer when we signed up, why put this there again?

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Finally, the disclaimer. I could understand it being on the print pages because some random stranger could pick up our cache pages and sue when they get hurt. But on the normal web view, we've already agreed to the disclaimer when we signed up, why put this there again?

But... but... Rothstafari wrote that! Don't angry-up the lawyers! :rolleyes:

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Liking the new look

 

Especially the GC # in the corner.

 

Rather surprised by Jeremy's comment that most people don't use the GC#. Most people I know use GSAK to use the GCID code along with other details for the Waypoint name.

 

Just seems the easiest way to sort for us is by GC#

 

Now we can find it easily.

 

 

And to think, you didn't even have to wrap it!

 

:rolleyes: The Blue Quasar

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Use you're best judgement. It's not rocket science. There's no penalty if you don't get it perfect. But *something* is better than nothing.

Yes, there is a penalty for not getting it perfect. You have to put up with whining about how they are wrong. Now, of course, you have to put up with the site whining at you about not having them.

 

I disagree that something is better than nothing in this case. I think attributes were an enormous waste of time and resources to solve a problem that would have been trivially solvable by having an intelligent search engine on cache page contents.

 

Now there's a whole complex system that cache hiders have to maintain.

 

I think I will do what others in the area do: just set the "no snowmobiles" icon so the system will quit whining at you, and ignore everything else.

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Yes, there is a penalty for not getting it perfect. You have to put up with whining about how they are wrong. Now, of course, you have to put up with the site whining at you about not having them.

It's an interesting observation. I sometimes consider feedback on our site as "whining" but by receiving feedback you can figure out better ways to do things, like add appropriate attributes.

 

I disagree that something is better than nothing in this case.  I think attributes were an enormous waste of time and resources to solve a problem ..

 

Here's a good example of whining.

 

that would have been trivially solvable by having an intelligent search engine on cache page contents.

 

Intelligent search engine. Hmm... How would an intelligent search engine be able to determine if dogs are allowed at a cache? Or if parking was available? I have a degree but most caches don't really offer a lot of info to help me answer these types of questions. Maybe there is some odd way that sentence structure can determine whether you can do the cache in the winter.

 

Now there's a whole complex system that cache hiders have to maintain.

 

How often does "parking available" change? Or whether dogs are allowed? I don't get it.

 

I think I will do what others in the area do:  just set the "no snowmobiles" icon so the system will quit whining at you, and ignore everything else.

 

Oh you passive aggressive devil you.

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What about getting the NEW STARS to blink, or randomly change colors. That would be cool ;)

Don

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I'd like the new stars better if they were bigger.

Come to think of it, I'd like them better if they were Signal-heads!

I don't want anyone to cut Signal's head in half! ;)

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I'd like the new stars better if they were bigger.

Come to think of it, I'd like them better if they were Signal-heads!

I don't want anyone to cut Signal's head in half! :D

Hrm, that might negatively affect the psyche of young'un. Good point. ;)

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that would have been trivially solvable by having an intelligent search engine on cache page contents.

 

Intelligent search engine. Hmm... How would an intelligent search engine be able to determine if dogs are allowed at a cache? Or if parking was available? I have a degree but most caches don't really offer a lot of info to help me answer these types of questions. Maybe there is some odd way that sentence structure can determine whether you can do the cache in the winter.

I probably shouldn't, but I think this deserves a response.

 

Implementing attributes using a search engine just means allowing users to check boxes in the cache description corresponding to various attributes and then putting the text corresponding to those boxes into the cache page. Those text fragments can then be searched using a search engine. I don't think that the concept is particularly hard to understand.

 

That solution is much easier to implement, since it doesn't require a massive re-engineering of the database. It's far more flexible, as users can add their own attributes to their descriptions and tailor their searches to whatever logical combination they want. And, perhaps most important of all, it transparently puts the attributes into pocket query results, so third-party applications can search on them as well.

 

I really don't think my objections are "whining." I haven't said anything prior to this, even though I was pretty frustrated by the amount of effort that was put into attributes when there are (in my opinion, of course) so many more important and useful enhancements that the site could use. It's not my site, and I don't presume to dictate how you should spend your time or money.

 

But when the site starts nagging me about attributes, that's different. Now it's no longer just about wasting your time and resources; you are now, in essence, asking me to waste my time and effort.

 

All that said, though, if attributes start getting included in GPX files from PQs, I might change my mind, as they could very well be very helpful in that context.

Edited by fizzymagic

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All that said, though, if attributes start getting included in GPX files from PQs, I might change my mind, as they could very well be very helpful in that context.

They will. The site is well overdue for a new Groundspeak:cache namespace.

 

You weren't really whining. I was just egging you on. Sorry about that. The point I'd like to make is that someone telling you that x attribute isn't appropriate for your listing is, to me, good feedback. You can, of course, take it or leave it, "it" being feedback or whining, depending on your observations.

 

Attributes were the #1 most requested feature on the site for years. It may not have been your most requested feature, but overall it was the most requested feature.

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Attributes were the #1 most requested feature on the site for years. It may not have been your most requested feature, but overall it was the most requested feature.

You mean you're telling me that my requests aren't the most important??? ;)

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You mean you're telling me that my requests aren't the most important??? :D

They're just to hard for my wee little head to comprehend. Mostly.

 

/false adoration ;)

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It might be a wee bit off topic, but it sorta follows the new direction of this thread.

 

Part of the challenge is that Jeremy and the other developers are always caught between a rock and hard place.

 

If they tip their hand about possible future developements, it either gets "When will it be available?" or "Man that sucks"

 

And if they don't say anything, people think their suggestions aren't being evaluated or maybe even not looked at.

 

Is it more likely for ideas from the long time, close knit, core group viewed with more interest than those that are new? Human nature would say so, that's to be expected.

 

There must be this massive list somewhere of Feature Requests. I don't know how they find the time honestly.

 

Some suggestions I've had are fleeting thoughts, and some I am very interested in seeing. For me, I have no way of knowing how they were received.

 

Since this is the "Geocaching.com Web Site" page, although about the "pretty stars", I still have no idea where I really should be posting suggestions that would be at the Groundspeak Level instead of the Geocaching or Wemarking Level.

 

Basically, I would like to see Groundspeak move more to the forefront. To handle the MEMBER options, with links to the Geocaching and Waymarking areas.

 

To me, Groundspeak.com should be the Account Portal for lack of a better term. I posted the same a while back in Waymarking... but as we all know, that area is still growing so it may not be taken as seriously.

 

Besides, I am happy with the site as it is, but if I can help stream line something then I would be happy to expand on it.

 

;) The Blue Quasar

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I really like the GC code in the corner. It could be a bit smaller though, to be more aligned (w/respect to lay-out) with the rest of the page.

Suggestion: make it the same font & size as the cache-type text in the title bar to the left of it.

 

Could you remove the "Use waypoint: GCXXXX (what's this?)" text next to the thumbnail map? It seems to be redundant now.

 

I'm not too fond of the stars, though. What was the reason for changing them?

I think keeping the size but changing the colours back to the colours we had before (so it's real easy to tell difficulty and terrain apart) would help a lot.

 

It is nice to see the scale of 5 stars depicted in white/grey stars now, for reference.

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that would have been trivially solvable by having an intelligent search engine on cache page contents.

 

Maybe there is some odd way that sentence structure can determine whether you can do the cache in the winter.

@ Jeremy: The attribute "available in winter" (icon showing a snowflake) is a very good (and widely disputed around here) example, because the wording of this attribute is SO absurd I higly doubt it could be worse. Most of the cachers falsely interpret it as "can be found despite snow".

 

It all leads back to some simple questions:

Is there any cache that is unavailable in just this period between dec. 21st and march 21st (resp. june 21 to sep. 23rd if your on the souther hemisphere)?

If so, why isn't the cache simply temporarily disabled by the owners for the three months?

If its about snow, why doesn't the title of the attribute say so?

And how could the owner decide if others are anble to find the cache despite snow?

etc. etc.

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For the Winter Friendly attribute, I have assumed it to mean...

 

"Location of Cache will not be adversely affected by snow fall"

 

or

 

"Placed such that it can be found as easily in Winter conditions as it is in other seasons"

 

 

But all caches, to me anyways, can be found in all forms of weather...

 

:o The Blue Quasar

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For the Winter Friendly attribute, I have assumed it to mean...

 

"Location of Cache will not be adversely affected by snow fall"

 

or

 

"Placed such that it can be found as easily in Winter conditions as it is in other seasons"

Obviously, Groundspeak wanted to express something different, else they would have said somethin about snow, not about winter. :o

 

We're about the same northern latitude as seattle and have snow from october 'till may/june - so there's no real connex to winter. Others might have winter and no snow at all... B)

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Obviously, Groundspeak wanted to express something different, else they would have said somethin about snow, not about winter. :o

Well yeah. The attribute says "Available during winter"

 

If you're going to criticize attributes, the least you can do is actually look at the page.

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If you're going to criticize attributes, the least you can do is actually look at the page.

Sorry Jeremy, I must be somehow blind. Could you please direct me to the page where the attributes are explained/defined??

Or is this just some sort of (pre-)xmas riddle?

 

TIA,

BalkanSabranje

 

Edit: changed one word to get a more friendly tone.

Edited by BalkanSabranje

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Additionally the term "Winter Friendly" must be taken in context with respect to the expectations of the region.

 

Saying winter friendly in Florida means little. It also means little in Alaska.

 

But if you live in an area with variable weather conditions, like Washington or Maine then it probably makes more sense

 

People in different areas of the world will apply the term differently, dependant upon their own expectations for "winter".

 

Attributes are still optional, whether the page nags you to add them or not.

 

Inclusion of data describing the local conditions related to the Cache location is just good marketing. If that includes Attribute Icons or detailed text descriptions, the viewing and reading of it is still optional.

 

Go ahead and just download coordinates and head out. That ultimately is all you need for traditional caches.

 

If you don't like Attributes, ignore them.... but don't expect them to go away. Some people like them.

 

:) The Blue Quasar

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If you don't like Attributes, ignore them.... but don't expect them to go away.  Some people like them.

Oh, all I'd expect is attributes being defined, so that they can be used in a standardized manner, where users of the gc.com can know how to interpret them correctly without contacting the owner of the listing before heading out for the cache.

This seems to be an insurmountable effort. :antenna:

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Sorry Jeremy, I must be somehow blind. Could you please direct me to the page where the attributes are explained/defined??

Or is this just some sort of (pre-)xmas riddle?

You quoted a post that indicated the attribute was "Winter Friendly" when it was actually "Available in Winter, yes or no." and made a joke of it. So my deduction was if you didn't even know what the attribute was, you didn't read it.

 

Edit: changed one word to get a more friendly tone.

 

Keep working on it. I'm getting the impression you are just being obstinate about attributes. I'll do my best to consider your responses at face value instead of marking them as being combative for your own personal enjoyment.

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