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Packin' And Cachin'.

Wandering Bears

By Wandering Bears
in General geocaching topics

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StarshipTrooper

+StarshipTrooper

Posted
Posted

Yes, but I wasn't addressing those who simply post to this thread. Here is an example of what I was talking about (not picking on anyone intentionally - just grabbed the most recent):

 

"Count me in with a Para-Ordinance Stealth Warthog .45..."

 

Not a very good example, I admit - but my point is that there is no need to give specifics of WHAT YOU CARRY to have this discussion. Were this person to accidentally piss off one of his locals that reads this forum, that person now has all the info he needs to cause the Warthog owner a lot of hardship. You may consider that far-fetched, but it is based on real-life incidents (loosely), and though it is probably less likely than the possibility of actually NEEDING that gun (a possibility that a lot of folks here are blissfully ignorant of), it is still a possibility that is not worth feeding.

Please elaborate. How would anyone be able to cause you more trouble simply by knowing what your carry weapon is (beyond the knowledge that the warthog has more stopping power than my BDA 380 and I have a possible two more chances of dropping my target)? I, for one, am very interested in other people;s feelings about methods of concealment. It helps me to know what their specific weapons are to judge whether their concerns should be mine. For instance, I would likely care about what the warthog owner has to say about concelement more than someone who carries a 'full-frame' weapon.

Furthermore - If, God forbid, you ever have to actually SHOOT someone in defense - bold statements of one's prowess with a gun or willingness to use it WILL be sought out by unscrupulous prosecuting attorneys and tort lawyers. Don't think for a minute that anyone has any rea anonymity here. If such a thing happens to you, your PC will likely be confiscated as evidence - and you know what that means...

I haven't read cold statements such as you suggested. Did I miss them? In every thread regarding this topic, two points have come up. 1) If you are going to carry a weapon, you must have the proper training and practice. 2) If you are going to carry, you must be willing to use the weapon, if necessary. These are very basic rules, not a 'bad-a**' boast. Most people who carry a weapon never have to use it. The rest wish that they didn't have to.

I'm just saying that a discussion on carry methods and gear need not include pictures of YOUR gun and YOURself in various methods of carrying. Besides, perhaps if you tone it down a bit, you wouldn't get so much backlash.

I don't see the harm. Its fair discussion that is geocaching-related.

There ARE sites for discussing all of this where it is welcome. It's not surprising to me that some here would take offense. That's no reason NOT to discuss it here, but it IS a reason to keep the discussion a little low-key and less provocative.

There are many topics that come up in here that don't interest me. I have the option to not open those threads or to hold off on posting if I can't add to the discussion. (Of course, I'm just as likely to post saom snarky comment, but that's my decision.)

 

Sorry about the clutter here...

 

Answer to question #1: If he knows who you are and he knows what you carry, it goes like this...

Complaint: "Officer there's a man with a gun" Officer, so&so threatened me with a gun" or some such variation.

Officer: (among other questions that can be answered with fiction) Describe the gun?

You see where this leads. Being able to describe the weapon is considered as evidence that it has been seen. Sure - you may beat this, but at what cost?

 

That's just one example, and I'm sure you think I'm being paranoid - but, well, whatever...

 

Answer to question #2: Check out posts 40 and 44. Other similar threads have such posts as well.

 

Answer to comment #3: I don't see the harm in toning it down a bit either. It's really not bad here, but it could be better. As for the photos...do you really want photos of you and your guns out on the internet? If you see no problem with that, it will be way to difficult for me to make you understand. The photos really aren't necessary (except in the case of the Keltec clip example), and many non-gun folks look at them as a form of boasting.

 

Answer to comment #4: Sure, you have that option. I'm just pointing out the things that 1) are specifically unwise, and 2) cause the non-gun folks here to get in a tizzy and disrupt the thread or cause it to be locked.

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sbell111

+sbell111

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sorry about the clutter here...

 

Answer to question #1: If he knows who you are and he knows what you carry, it goes like this...

Complaint: "Officer there's a man with a gun" Officer, so&so threatened me with a gun" or some such variation.

Officer: (among other questions that can be answered with fiction) Describe the gun?

You see where this leads. Being able to describe the weapon is considered as evidence that it has been seen. Sure - you may beat this, but at what cost?

 

That's just one example, and I'm sure you think I'm being paranoid - but, well, whatever...

I do think that your being overly paranoid. Of course, 'those people' would have no ideea whether you were actually carrying at that moment. Also, how suspicious would it be if someone told a cop that I pointed a BDA380 at them? Do you really think that most people can identify a specific weapon from a few feet away?

Answer to question #2: Check out posts 40 and 44. Other similar threads have such posts as well.

The only thing that someone might have a problem with #40 is that he might have drawn a little early. Maybe not, I'd have to be there, I guess. Also, one man's boasting is another's confidence self-booster. BTW, I think the super huge mags change the weapon's balance too much.

Answer to comment #3: I don't see the harm in toning it down a bit either. It's really not bad here, but it could be better. As for the photos...do you really want photos of you and your guns out on the internet? If you see no problem with that, it will be way to difficult for me to make you understand. The photos really aren't necessary (except in the case of the Keltec clip example), and many non-gun folks look at them as a form of boasting.

I love it when people pull out the old 'If you disagree, you're stupid' argument. It really helps convince people of your POV. It's almost as good as 'If you disagree, you're unpatriotic (or a commie, a liberal, whatever.) :ph34r:

Answer to comment #4: Sure, you have that option. I'm just pointing out the things that 1) are specifically unwise, and 2) cause the non-gun folks here to get in a tizzy and disrupt the thread or cause it to be locked.

People get in a tizzy around here if you say that you like micros. I'm not going to limit my behavior for the sole purpose of pacifying them. (Pacifying them, get it? :huh: )

 

EDIT: Added blah-blah to #1

Edited by sbell111
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StarshipTrooper

+StarshipTrooper

Posted
Posted

Sigh...

 

sbell111 says:

 

"I do think that your being overly paranoid. Of course, 'those people' would have no ideea whether you were actually carrying at that moment. Also, how suspicious would it be if someone told a cop that I pointed a BDA380 at them? Do you really think that most people can identify a specific weapon from a few feet away?"

 

I guess I'm not getting across my point. He DOESN"T HAVE to see it. And if you state publicly that you always carry, odds are you will be carrying. I suppose you could be bluffing though...

 

sbell111 says:

 

"...BTW, I think the super huge mags change the weapon's balance too much."

 

So do I. ;)

 

sbell111:

 

"I love it when people pull out the old 'If you disagree, you're stupid' argument...."

 

I didn't say that. If anything, I implied as to mine OWN shortcoming..."...it will be way to difficult for me to make you understand...." Did you catch the "for me" part? Hey - I'm on your side here, for the most part. Don't be so touchy! :huh:

 

sbell111:

 

"People get in a tizzy around here if you say that you like micros. I'm not going to limit my behavior for the sole purpose of pacifying them."

 

Yes they do. And you shouldn't. But a little diplomacy can go a long way. Anything that helps these threads from not being locked might be worth considering.

 

Now - I've disrupted this thread too much myself. I won't post again unles I can add something to the OP's question... :ph34r:

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kent1915

+kent1915

Posted
Posted

Weighing in with my 0.02. First off, I live in WISCONSIN where CCW or Personal ProtectionAct has been vetoed two times in a row and over ride has failed 2 times in a row. To challenge the notion that CCW=lower crime rate, I live in one of the safest places in the country.

 

That said, I do carry hunting knife if I am caching on long hike as part of that be prepared philosophy and I do carry pepper spray for my other endeavors which involves going to not nice homes infested with drugs and weapons. Even if CCW passed in my state, I would not carry. My choice. Not bashing those that do. I do also have body armor from stint doing child abuse investigations. IIIa. Heavy, but reassuring.

 

That said. Carrying concealed when caching? I guess personal choice. If you are in a dangerous area and feel the need; so be it.

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Byron & Anne

+Byron & Anne

Posted
Posted

"Paranoid idiots" is the correct catagory for those that feel the need to carry.

 

Paranoid in that you think it's necessary to carry.

 

Idiot because you believe it's going to make you safer.

 

Both are wrong assumptions.

 

It'll make you more nervous since you have always worry about something happening to your weapon, therefore increase the fear.

 

It makes actually makes you less safe, that is unless your name is Wyatt Erp.

 

Therefore rather than worrying about how to carrry, why not just leave it at home so don't go shooting somebody. However if do shoot somebody society gets to take your genes out of the gene pool.

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pwcorg

+pwcorg

Posted
Posted

"Paranoid idiots" is the correct catagory for those that feel the need to carry.

 

Paranoid in that you think it's necessary to carry.

 

Idiot because you believe it's going to make you safer.

 

Both are wrong assumptions.

 

It'll make you more nervous since you have always worry about something happening to your weapon, therefore increase the fear.

 

It makes actually makes you less safe, that is unless your name is Wyatt Erp.

 

Therefore rather than worrying about how to carrry, why not just leave it at home so don't go shooting somebody. However if do shoot somebody society gets to take your genes out of the gene pool.

 

Your post would be more effective if your OPINIONS were based in fact, or reality for that matter, or had included some verifiable statistics to back them up. Also the grammatical and spelling errors don't lend much credibility to someone classifying others as "idiots". :laughing:

 

In the unlikely event you would like some actual facts on the issue.....

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Mopar

+Mopar

Posted
Posted (edited)

PWCORG, thanks for that link! Even though it's a little dated, the historical analysis is great. :laughing:

 

You might enjoy this link from my sig line, or this one from my profile.

I'm kinda curious about those that carry in a backpack...... it would seem to me to be pretty useless back there. In the hopefully rare chance you might need it, would you really be able to access it in time?

Edited by Mopar
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Thrak

+Thrak

Posted
Posted

I've never felt the need for a gun while caching --- until last week.

 

I did a cache in a "woodsy area" of a nearby mountain town. The cache was placed by a local Girl Scout troop, the hike was not real long and the day was beautiful. The three snarling german shepards were very unsettling. They weren't restrained and were running along the bottom of the little ridge barking and snarling at me and looking for an easy way up. I did have my hiking stick but I wasn't at all confident that I could fend off 3 large and nasty dogs. At that point in time I became very aware of exactly why some folks prefer to carry while caching.

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ZSandmann

+ZSandmann

Posted
Posted

I carry a Nelspot 007 Paint Pistol with me sometimes. Not for any illicit reasons, but I figure a couple key shots will imobilize a person or scare an animal long enough for me to get away,, without long lasting effects. Now if I could get some Pepper Balls, that could be interesting.

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StarshipTrooper

+StarshipTrooper

Posted
Posted (edited)

PWCORG, thanks for that link! Even though it's a little dated, the historical analysis is great. :laughing:

 

You might enjoy this link from my sig line, or this one from my profile.

I'm kinda curious about those that carry in a backpack...... it would seem to me to be pretty useless back there. In the hopefully rare chance you might need it, would you really be able to access it in time?

 

Mopar - I already knew about those two, but thanks anyway. :D

 

Backpack carry makes sense in some situations. Like when you're only carrying it because at some opint in your outing you might participate in a little informal target shooting, but it would be unsafe or impracticle to carry in a more "tactically suitable" location. (I know - it's a stretch, but it's not uncommon)

 

But if you think you're carrying the gun/knife/pepper spray/whatever for protection, the backpack is only slightly better than leaving it behind in the car. That is to say, if you can't reach it quickly, why bother?

 

This brings to mind a recent thread here about a group of cachers who were assaulted at a cache location - in Washington, IIRC - while one of the victim's gun was carried uselessly in his backpack... :D

 

Edit: There *is* at least on backpack that I can think of that is designed for quick access from a special gun pocket. If I can find a link, I'll post it. One would have to be more limber than *I* am to rely on that system though. :D

Edited by StarshipTrooper
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pwcorg

+pwcorg

Posted
Posted

PWCORG, thanks for that link! Even though it's a little dated, the historical analysis is great. :laughing:

 

You're welcome. I just picked one at random at try and interject some facts into the situation. I thought it was appropriate as the site also links to government statistics.

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pwcorg

+pwcorg

Posted
Posted

PWCORG, thanks for that link! Even though it's a little dated, the historical analysis is great. :laughing:

 

You might enjoy this link from my sig line, or this one from my profile.

I'm kinda curious about those that carry in a backpack...... it would seem to me to be pretty useless back there. In the hopefully rare chance you might need it, would you really be able to access it in time?

 

I had the first one, but thanks for the second.

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Wandering Bears

+Wandering Bears

Posted
  • Author
Posted

"Paranoid idiots" is the correct catagory for those that feel the need to carry.

 

Paranoid in that you think it's necessary to carry.

 

Idiot because you believe it's going to make you safer.

 

Both are wrong assumptions.

 

It'll make you more nervous since you have always worry about something happening to your weapon, therefore increase the fear.

 

It makes actually makes you less safe, that is unless your name is Wyatt Erp.

 

Therefore rather than worrying about how to carrry, why not just leave it at home so don't go shooting somebody. However if do shoot somebody society gets to take your genes out of the gene pool.

 

:laughing:

 

Wow. What a hate-filled, vitriolic reply.

 

I got a 72 hour vacation and my comments deleted in the scouting TB thread, and I didn't even call anybody names.

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