Swag Too Good?

[CamoCachers]

is this possible?

 

have you ever happened on a cache where the items were all too nice to trade for your own trade items?

 

the reason i ask is ... it seems the caches weve put out, for the most part, have very little trading going on. we try to put fairly nice items in our caches. id say 90% of it is brand new and cost $1 or more.

 

i believe that most people arent trading because they simply didnt bring anything along that would be trading up. we dont wanna lower the quality of the swag, but we want people to take something away with them. we always enjoy getting something useful out of a cache, figure others would too. but no one is trading?

[+Snoogans]

Swag Too Good? is this possible?

 

That hasn't stopped my cache contents from turning into tired old crap rather quickly, but then, I could care less. My caches are gifts to the geocaching community.

 

A cache isn't a cash register. I honestly don't get how some folks act like a cache needs to be balanced like a checkbook when reality is so different from their mental ideal of what goes on there.

 

I find all the trading angst to be rather amusing since I divest myself of all feelings of ownership toward the things I place in caches. The only thing I keep from a cache is a sig item. I'll trade as fairly as possible at caches, but anything not sig related will just find its way into another cache down the road....

Edited December 21, 2005 by Snoogans

[+tkays]

Sometimes it feels like moving junk from one place to another. For that reason, it's really nice to get to a cache that has a theme or unusual trade items. Someone left eight bucks in the last cache I wnet to. That's a bit odd. But I did do a cache that exchanged CDs (with permission).

[+bilgeratt]

the reason i ask is ... it seems the caches weve put out, for the most part, have very little trading going on.

It could be possible that you just have a bunch of folks that don't care about swag.

 

If my kids are with me I trade. If not, I sign the logbook, maybe read a few other entries, and then close the cache. I honestly couldn't tell you what swag was in the cache 5 seconds after I close it.

 

For me it's about the thrill of the hunt. And I suspect there's a lot more like me out there.

[ATMouse]

Yes, I understand and yes, I have merrily gone out to a cache with some items stuffed in my pocket and found REALLY nice items I couldn't trade for, cause what I had wasn't good enough.

 

I have also cached with friends who were caught short and gave them stuff to trade for the item cause they didn't have good enough.

 

It happens. And some of us believe in trading fair/trading up.

[+briansnat]

A cache isn't a cash register. I honestly don't get how some folks act like a cache needs to be balanced like a checkbook when reality is so different from their mental ideal of what goes on there.

 

I find all the trading angst to be rather amusing since I divest myself of all feelings of ownership toward the things I place in caches.

 

Sure, but when you start a cache with nice stuff, wouldn't it be nice if the 20th finder opened it and found the same kind of stuff as the first and second finder, without your having to go out there every few weeks to restock it?

 

The reason i ask is ... it seems the caches weve put out, for the most part, have very little trading going on. we try to put fairly nice items in our caches. id say 90% of it is brand new and cost $1 or more.

 

I think there is probably more trading going on than you realize. I see a lot of TNLN with my caches, but when I go back there is always a major turnover in contents.

 

I believe that most people arent trading because they simply didnt bring anything along that would be trading up. we dont wanna lower the quality of the swag

 

This is the case for some people, but apparently others take one nice item and as long as they leave a lot of junky items in return, they call it even. I've seen logs like "Took the mini Mag-lite, left some pocket lint, a expired Sanka coupon, a broken clamshell, a dead battery and a rusty keyring from Mannys Car Wash".

Edited December 21, 2005 by briansnat

[+DanOCan]

For me it's about the thrill of the hunt. And I suspect there's a lot more like me out there.

I totally agree with what you said. Unless I suspect there is a Travel Bug in the cache I mostly don't even look at the trade items. I made sure to put a warning in the description for one of my caches:

 

"If you are looking for a cache filled with all sorts of great trading items, this is NOT the cache for you. The original cache contents would be described by many people as "lame". However, if you believe the joy of caching comes from the hunt and not the swag, you should like this one."

 

So far it doesn't seem to stop people from hunting for it, so I suspect you are correct.

[+briansnat]

For me it's about the thrill of the hunt. And I suspect there's a lot more like me out there.

I totally agree with what you said. Unless I suspect there is a Travel Bug in the cache I mostly don't even look at the trade items. I made sure to put a warning in the description for one of my caches:

 

"If you are looking for a cache filled with all sorts of great trading items, this is NOT the cache for you. The original cache contents would be described by many people as "lame". However, if you believe the joy of caching comes from the hunt and not the swag, you should like this one."

 

So far it doesn't seem to stop people from hunting for it, so I suspect you are correct.

I'm sure most of us adults are in it for the hunt, not the swag. But remember a lot of people geocache with their families and the kids sure like the swag. Also a lot of newbies expect some sort of treasure at the end. Eventually they get to the "into it for the hunt" phase, but in the beginning the swag is an attractant for many.

[+Isonzo Karst]

This is the case for some people, but apparently others take one nice item and as long as they leave a lot of junky items in return, they call it even.

 

I'd amend this to read, take one nice higher value item, and leave several lower value items in return. Not necessarily junky (not that I haven't seen that). If all you're carrying are $1 or less items, and you take a ~$3 item, the tendency is it leave 3 $1 items. It does seem to leave the cache less well stocked than it started. I trade VERY little. But I do carry some ~$1 items and some ~$4 items - if I find a higher value item I want, I can trade even for it.

 

As to the OP's point, if you stock a cache with somewhat more expensive items, you are going to stop trading among those who really try to trade even. We recently visited a cache full of really primo booty. We took nothing, having nothing of equal value to trade (also the cache was so full that taking one item and replacing it with several was not physically possible).When Isonzo got home, he went online to find one of the items, and bought some from Ebay!

[+Mastifflover]

I only trade for a sig item anymore. I still have the little ATM mousebusters mouse that I found at one of the first caches that I found. Those are the kind of things that you remember.

[CoyoteRed]

A cache isn't a cash register.

Hear, hear!

 

My favorite saying about trading, "Remember to always trade kindly. The person after you should be as pleased as you are." (Of course! )

 

This doesn't really necessarily mean "trade even." As long as the cache is in good shape when you leave, I don't care. If you take a nice item and in exchange remove the trash others have left, replace the logbook baggie, and sharpen the pencil, then I'm happy. Of course, we generally have folks around here that leave stuff and don't take so it kind of evens out.

 

I'd rather a visitor take some and not leave anything than take a nice item and leave trash or a pine cone they found next to the cache. The "leave something, take something" concept is nice and all, but has proven to be a bit problematic.

 

An alternative, I've mentioned in the past and originally advocated by the Father of Geocaching, Dave Ulmer, was to place a cache with swag and visitors only took items, not leaving anything but their signature. When the cache is empty, archive it. (Or replenish it.)

 

It also needs saying that not everyone is into trading. Some will only trade if they see something that interests them. Some don't ever trade.

 

Oh, to answer the OP query, yes, we've come across caches with items just too pricey to trade. One would have made us leave our GPS and PDA to trade "even." (Upon returning to civilization and looking up the item, just the GPS would have been an "even" trade.) Abviously, we declined to trade.

[+Car54]

We carry a variety of swag with us. All of it new (except maybe for swag we're recycling from another cache) - mainly dollar store items, a few McToys, always unopened and usually dropped as an additional trade item in a cache lacking any kid's items. However, we do carry at all times 2 "nice" trade items - $5-$10 - so if we find something we really like (such as an unactivated geocoin clearly identified as a trade item - yes, this did happen to us ) or a cache we really enjoyed for a reason unrelated to swag, we can leave something we consider "worthy".

 

Mrs. Car54

[Hugh Jazz]

Baby Got Swag

 

I like big swag and I cannot lie

You other finders can't deny

That when a cache dumps out with a biggie load o'swag

And a log book in its bag

You just smile, Wanna trade awhile

Cuz you notice that the cache was stuffed

Deep with goods for trading

I'm hooked and I can't stop saying

Oh, baby I wanna swap wit'cha

And take my pit'cha

You hiders say I'm needy

But with that swag you got

Makes m-me so Greedy

 

(with apologies to Sir Mix-A-Lot)

[+RockyRaab]

I've almost stopped traded swag, also. But I recently found a cache just outside Reno, Navada that had a fishing-related theme. In it were a new reel, several new lures and similar really good stuff, plus a nice men's watch.

 

Because most of the caches in Reno are micros, I had little to trade, and certainly nothing with which to trade "even" so I just signed the log and made an effusive log entry later.

[+clearpath]

Its impossible for the swag to be 'too good'. The thought of it makes me want to eat at McDonalds ...

[+flask]

look, if i leave a $70 trinket in a cache, i do not expect someone to trade even for it. it's my gift to you. just leave something nice and we'll call it even, ok?

[+Renegade Knight]

When I was new at this I traded a lot. Now, not much at all. Latley I've taken to leaving a coin (foreign not geo) in each cache and have a few geocoins for the ones I enjoyed the most (which may not have anything to do with the qualit yof the cache by most peoples standards)/

 

It's odd if your cache stays pretty nice for swag.

[+briansnat]

look, if i leave a $70 trinket in a cache, i do not expect someone to trade even for it. it's my gift to you. just leave something nice and we'll call it even, ok?

True. Someone left a barely used GPS in a cache of mine (Geko 201). The point of the cache was to have only one "very nice" item inside at any time and people were to trade it for another "very nice" item. By this I meant something in the $10 range. Once the Geko was in there nobody would touch it. I had to leave a note on the page begging for someone to take the darn thing and no need to leave a $100 item in return. As long as they didn't leave pocket lint or a broken McToy for it, I was happy.

[+Zzyzx Road]

We collect themes of McD toys, recently we got a whole load of the same thing.

We have been leaving those...

I also got some beanies from a friend (tried selling them on eBay, but with only mixed results) and some are teenie beanies, which fit quite nicely into the caches we have found.

The Woody toys we left are opened, only so they would fit into the caches. Teenies are small enough. My girls like the idea of taking something from the cache, so we will always leave something fun enough for a 5-11 year old - since those are the people helping me.

I would never leave anything trashy or dirty or used...

 

Should we be doing something better/different?

[+clearpath]

Someone left a barely used  GPS in a cache of mine (Geko 201). 

Whenever I see something 'electronic' in a cache, I just assume it's broken. That could be one reason it was not taken ...

[+briansnat]

Someone left a barely used  GPS in a cache of mine (Geko 201). 

Whenever I see something 'electronic' in a cache, I just assume it's broken. That could be one reason it was not taken ...

Actually no, because the logs would state that their trade items were not worthy. It had batteries in it and could easily be tested and it also came with the manual.

[+JMBella]

I have also found that when I place "nice" things in my caches people are reluctant to trade. I used to get a little bent when people didn't trade equal or trade up. Some of you may even remember the logo I made that is used in the selector. My opinion has changed pretty drastically though. I put good crap in my caches because I want people to take them and use them and enjoy them. Say I put a decent compass in a cache. The way I see it is you have 2 choices. Most people aren't going to have something equivalent to the value of the compass, so, they can either take it a trade whatever for it, or the thing will sit there in the cache being useless. I say take the dam thing and leave your sig item or a friggin bouncy ball and enjoy the compass or flashlight or whatever it is I placed in the cache. What's the point otherwise? It's not really about what's in the cache after all, right?

[+pwcorg]

Swag Too Good? is this possible?

 

That hasn't stopped my cache contents from turning into tired old crap rather quickly, but then, I could care less. My caches are gifts to the geocaching community.

 

A cache isn't a cash register. I honestly don't get how some folks act like a cache needs to be balanced like a checkbook when reality is so different from their mental ideal of what goes on there.

 

I find all the trading angst to be rather amusing since I divest myself of all feelings of ownership toward the things I place in caches. The only thing I keep from a cache is a sig item. I'll trade as fairly as possible at caches, but anything not sig related will just find its way into another cache down the road....

Same here. One particular cache I put out went from really nice swag (silva ranger compass, seal skins dry socks, hiking water purifier, etc) to a box of McToys in about 4 months.

[CamoCachers]

I have also found that when I place "nice" things in my caches people are reluctant to trade. I used to get a little bent when people didn't trade equal or trade up. Some of you may even remember the logo I made that is used in the selector. My opinion has changed pretty drastically though. I put good crap in my caches because I want people to take them and use them and enjoy them. Say I put a decent compass in a cache. The way I see it is you have 2 choices. Most people aren't going to have something equivalent to the value of the compass, so, they can either take it a trade whatever for it, or the thing will sit there in the cache being useless. I say take the dam thing and leave your sig item or a friggin bouncy ball and enjoy the compass or flashlight or whatever it is I placed in the cache. What's the point otherwise? It's not really about what's in the cache after all, right?

thats pretty much our take on it. we dont care if theyre trading up. just leave us something in return (a sig item, broken mctoy, something!) and take something that we left.

 

we dont buy anything majorly nice, but its all useful stuff that any cacher could use. flashlights, first aid kits, water bottles, etc. and we fill our caches with them kind of as gifts to those who come out and find our caches. were not worried about getting anything special in return. just a lil token of appreciation for the cache.

 

im not worried about it. it just means we have to restock the caches less frequently. but the stuff we put in it isnt doing any good laying out in a cache. just wondering if others shared our feelings.

 

and no matter how much you like the hunt, coming home with a lil something extra always makes it that much better!

[CamoCachers]

and to add a lil thought to that, part of the reason may be the large concentration of very high number finders in our area. i know more 1000+ finders than sub 1000 finders by a very large margin. perhaps theyre all just burnt out on trading......

 

but thats part of the reason we try to make our caches extra nice. we figure with all those finds, theyve seen plenty of trashy caches and will enjoy a nice cache. and all our finds are hidden by those same high number finders, we see the stuff as sort of "thank you gifts". not only for taking the time to find our cache, but for the caches they have placed themselves.

 

theres no way i could get upset even if one of them took something and left nothing. theyve provided us with plenty of fun times, and upcoming good times. that item that costs a few bucks is the least i can do!

 

and hugh jazz, great job on the parody. it flowed with the original perfectly. stuck in my head now

[+tands]

As soon as new GPS units get under $50, we plan to start using them as FTF prizes.

 

Some local cachers are placing NEW Palm Zire handhelds as FTF prizes!

 

- T of TandS

[+ecocyclist]

If it's a good cache, than good swag is great. I always tradewd when I started, but now I really just do TNLNSL's. There was a big discussion on the SEPAG (Southeastern PA geocachers) forums about using dirty golf balls as swag... a lot of people in my area seem to just pick the up on the hike in and drop them in a cache.

Edited December 22, 2005 by ecocyclist

[+sept1c_tank]

is this possible?

 

have you ever happened on a cache where the items were all too nice to trade for your own trade items?

Never have I found a cache where all the items outclass my own available trading items. I have found caches with some really cool stuff that might have interested me, and I didn't have an even, up, fair, acceptable or kind trade item available. In those cases I just said oh well, and continued. But then, I don't trade much anyway.

[+Snoogans]

A cache isn't a cash register. I honestly don't get how some folks act like a cache needs to be balanced like a checkbook when reality is so different from their mental ideal of what goes on there.

 

I find all the trading angst to be rather amusing since I divest myself of all feelings of ownership toward the things I place in caches.

 

Sure, but when you start a cache with nice stuff, wouldn't it be nice if the 20th finder opened it and found the same kind of stuff as the first and second finder, without your having to go out there every few weeks to restock it?

 

Sure it would be, as you say, nice, but that's just not real world thinking. It's idealistic.

 

I spent about $300 on a series of caches. They were seldom visited because of the difficulty getting to them. All were junk within a year.

 

If even two thirds of cachers upheld the widely touted trading idealism spoken in these forums, caches wouldn't degrade so quickly. Given the number of visits to these caches, even less than idealistic degradation would have my cache contents worth a great deal more.

 

I could care less because I got some wonderful logs and pictures. THAT'S WHY I HIDE CACHES. The stuff is meaningless and any angst others feel over it just makes me laugh.

 

I'll spend about $80 restocking them for the first time in 2006. (then 3 years old) I doubt I'll restock them again because anyone who b!tches about cache contents at THESE locations just doesn't get what cachin' is all about. The only caches I regularly restock are my theme caches.

 

Folks who cache behind me sometimes note that I leave way more than I take out. I have a habit of cramming a good cache full of stuff, but I have traded down a time, or two, without regret, because the item in question usually goes right into another cache especially if it fits the theme of a cache I'm building. I tend to pick and choose my hunts, so it's usually a good cache that I've taken the time to visit. Get it? I put way more into the game than I take out and all I really ever take out are sig items.

 

I made a little experiment of a large personal terracache (Snoogandipity) of mine. I filled it with DVDs and other decent swag. The average item was worth $2.50-$3.50 and there were 2 items worth nearly $20. I set it at the perimeter of a decent sized event cache where folks could feel fairly unobserved logging it and told people to log it at their leisure. The adults carved out the more expensive items in about 2 minutes. It was revisited again and again and again, by their kids, through the course of the event.

 

Cache contents totaling just under $70 were reduced to 6 of the exact same McToy, 4 dirty golf balls, some small change, 2 WG dollars, 2 gc.com tbs, and about a half dozen sig items by the end of the event. The best part is the mce value tanked near to the point of an automatic system archive when it was logged online. So, I mentioned this little experiment in cache quality by the items within a cache just the way I did here and behold, the mce value recovered. Funny thing conscience…

 

The fact is I knew that was going to happen. It didn't bother me. Well, the mce part miffed me a bit.

 

I dare ANYONE to do the same thing at an event and I'll eat my hat if the result is different.

 

Caches degrade. PERIOD! Any angst one feels about cache contents degrading is so moot as to be..... I don't know, but pretty darned moot that's for sure.

 

BTW- I've learned one other important thing bringing Snoogandipity to events to be logged...... Folks DON'T usually trade if the cache is on a table right in the middle of an event. They'll sign the log and hardly glance at the contents.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Snoogans

[+tands]

Funny thing is, around here, it took the Fourth To Find to take the Palm Zire from the latest cache.

 

- T of TandS

[+Fergus]

There is no such thing as trade items, or swag, being to good. If you do not trade, it is NOT geocaching! Also, I feel you should try to bring good trade items. I make chainmail balls to use as trade items. Each takes me about a half hour to make. I do not expect others to trade as well as I do, but I expect them to trade something.

[+Snoogans]

I'd loooove to find one of YOUR sig items. That would be a real prize.

 

There is no such thing as trade items, or swag, being to good.  If you do not trade, it is NOT  geocaching! 

 

I totally disagree with that part. To each his own.

 

That said, I usually trade, or leave something if there's room, but I'm sure there will come a time when I'm beyond wanting to participate in that part of the activity.

[+Sue Gremlin]

Yeah, I disagree, too. What about log only caches?

We will take an item if we see something that we want, but won't if there isn't anything we desire. Some caches are just devoid of stuff, like the kind that contain only a pen, a log, two damp baseball cards, sone business cards and a dirty sheet of stickers. We usually leave something, (especially in that case), and ALWAYS do if we take something.

[Hugh Jazz]

If you do not trade, it is NOT  geocaching! 

The Rules of Geocaching as stated on geocaching.com's FAQ page are very clear:

 

1. Take something from the cache

2. Leave something in the cache

3. Write about it in the logbook

 

There is no indication that ANY of these rules are optional. Yes I know that later in the forums some have said that only #3 is really important, yet the rules remain as stated on the official FAQ page. Until such time as they change, they ARE the rules. If you break the rules you are a rulebreaker and a rebel.

 

So if you don't take something and leave something as well as sign the log, you simply may not claim a find! These rules are not open for interpretation. The 'founding fathers of geocaching' intent was very clear on this matter, and they have left us many writings which confirm their intent. And fortunately they are still alive so we may ask them why if the rules have changed, haven't they been changed on the FAQ page?

 

As for the quality of swag degrading over time, that's a well known phenomenon called "The Tragedy of the Commons." Google that phrase and you'll understand the forces at work there. Cache content quality degrades over time, it's a given.

[+xtinkshun]

I'm first to admit I do most of my cache shopping at the 99 Cent Store or Dollar Tree and if you spend the time you can get some really good loot! I try to get stuff that I think I would find useful (i.e. small multi-tools are great for trading, little flashlights, toys for kids, mini radios, pet items, etc). I have an ammo box doggie themed cache near a dog park and got all of the items at the 99 cent store. Toys, chewies (no food stuff), doggie notepads, dog tags, collars, etc. I stuffed the thing for under $10! I try to make the hides with all the loot tough to find (after losing another dog park cache to homeless muggles).

 

As for trading, I rarely take anything actually. If I do I usually drop it into another cache lagging swag. I always try and leave at least two or three items and especially if a cache is lagging in the swag dept. And the harder the cache the more I appreciate it and the more I leave.

 

I REALLY love big caches but my area is saturated with micros. So, I try to keep a handful of little items like marbles or gemstones I can fit in in them.

[+briansnat]

The Rules of Geocaching as stated on geocaching.com's FAQ page are very clear:

 

1. Take something from the cache

2. Leave something in the cache

3. Write about it in the logbook

 

There is no indication that ANY of these rules are optional.

 

So what if I take the pencil and logbook, then put it back. I think I'm covered. It doesn't say you have to take and leave different items.

[Hugh Jazz]

So what if I take the pencil and logbook, then put it back. I think I'm covered. It doesn't say you have to take and leave different items.

Of course!

You're not a lawyer, by any chance, are you?

[+treedweller]

This is the case for some people, but apparently others take one nice item and as long as they leave a lot of junky items in return, they call it even. I've seen logs like "Took the mini Mag-lite, left some pocket lint, a expired Sanka coupon, a broken clamshell, a dead battery and a rusty keyring from Mannys Car Wash".

Hey, that's five items in exchange for one. What a generous trade! More people get to enjoy the process later.

 

treedweller

[+thedeadpirate]

For the most part, I just sign the logbook. As others have stated, the hunt is what it is all about.

 

However, when my wife or son are with me, they insist on trading. We did one way off the beaten path a few weeks ago. We had not really planned to find it, but I was looking at the GPS map and saw it was in the vicinity so we found it. I didn't have my normal geobag with me and told them I was just signing the log. They tore through the truck looking for something to trade with.

 

So I guess it boils down to some just want to hunt, some feel compelled to trade; all play the game their own way.

[+BilboB]

I rarely take anything except TB's. I keep my swag with me, and will trade if there is something cool my kids would like. Mostly it's just junk.

[+shorbird]

I'm there for the hunt, not the swag.

[+Cool Librarian]

For me it's about the thrill of the hunt. And I suspect there's a lot more like me out there.

I totally agree with what you said. Unless I suspect there is a Travel Bug in the cache I mostly don't even look at the trade items. I made sure to put a warning in the description for one of my caches:

 

"If you are looking for a cache filled with all sorts of great trading items, this is NOT the cache for you. The original cache contents would be described by many people as "lame". However, if you believe the joy of caching comes from the hunt and not the swag, you should like this one."

 

So far it doesn't seem to stop people from hunting for it, so I suspect you are correct.

I'm sure most of us adults are in it for the hunt, not the swag. But remember a lot of people geocache with their families and the kids sure like the swag. Also a lot of newbies expect some sort of treasure at the end. Eventually they get to the "into it for the hunt" phase, but in the beginning the swag is an attractant for many.

It's still an "attractant" for me!

 

After 2 years of this, I certainly trade less now than when I started - but I sure do get really excited when I find a cache with GREAT swag - and by GREAT I mean SOMETHING I WANT. A few weeks ago I found a cookie scoop in a cache, and it's like the best swag I have ever found - I used it to make all of my Christmas cookies!

 

Hey, adult or not, I'm a girl, and I like cool stuff.