+wavector Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I have just become a Premium Member recently and one of the new features is a Bookmark list. If I bookmark a cache it allows me to make the bookmark visible on the cache listing. I did this for a few caches and now I am wondering how the owners might feel about my bookmark appearing on their cache listing page, any objections ? The bookmarks I created were positive, ie Best Caches. Quote Link to comment
+JohnnyVegas Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 It would not bother me. I do not have any caches bookmarked myself. Quote Link to comment
+Airmapper Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Why certainly, go right ahead, I'll take best cache bookmarks! No, seriously I don't think I'd mind, since I'm not a PM I might have trouble viewing the list, but that's not a problem. What I might have a problem with is it it's on a list like "Don't do this cache" or "Caches that suck" then I'd be wanting it off. Quote Link to comment
+wavector Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 It would not bother me. I do not have any caches bookmarked myself. I noticed that as well. Very few cachers seem to avail themselves of the feature that says Show This Bookmark on the cache page. I imagine it is based upon the same reaction I felt when seeing My handle on Their cache page. I wonder if an implicit invitation "Please bookmark me ?" might make this feature more useful. Quote Link to comment
+Miragee Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I have two Bookmark lists, both of which are Public. Caches with a View Memorable Caches I didn't figure out the Bookmark feature until a few weeks ago, so there are probably quite a few deserving caches that haven't made it to either of my Bookmark lists yet. I hope the cache owners are pleased to see their cache on my list. I know I am pleased to see my own caches on my list . . . Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 It's only a matter of time before the "I hate stats" crowd wants to opt out because to put their cache on your "best of" or "worst of" list is a form of stats. As for me, I don't care. If I didn't want my caches listed I'd not list them at all. Some of my caches I would hope made your worst of list. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I think most cache owners would be flattered to be on another cacher's bookmark list. Unless of course it is a list of "caches to avoid", or "caches that suck". Quote Link to comment
+blackjack65 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I have a visible BookMark list of caches with a Travel Bug that has sat in it for too long, and that should be rescued from those caches. This also encouraged traffic to those caches. Out of about 75 such caches, 3 owners have asked me to remove their caches, so this list is down to around 65 visible. If they don't wan't that extra traffic on their cache, so be it. Quote Link to comment
+nfa Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) I've got a list in my sig (below) of my favorite 5% of found caches...I don't think it will happen, but it would be a bummer to have someone make a list of "caches that suck" or "puzzles that can be solved by {{insert key here}}". jamie Edited December 19, 2005 by NFA Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I've been showing the 70 or so caches on my favorites bookmark list since the day when the feature became available. I've gotten a couple of thank-you's, and zero negative feedback. My other big bookmark list is all my unresolved DNF's. I don't particularly feel a need to display that information on the cache page for each one I didn't find. That could be taken by the owner as a comment that their cache sucks because an experienced cacher couldn't find it -- although I prefer to look at it as "even experienced cachers get stumped." A DNF from an experienced cacher because the cache was well-hidden ought to be a badge of honor for an owner. But some get touchy just if someone logs one, nevermind displaying a bookmark list link. Quote Link to comment
+Jamie Z Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Lep, Aren't you the one who gave me the idea for a bookmark for "Caches Where my Log has been deleted" ? Jamie Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Jamie, could be. I did do a mock bookmark list called "Caches I'm Ignoring" and put the cache of a forum poster onto the list temporarily in order to prove a point. Same kind of thing. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Lep, Aren't you the one who gave me the idea for a bookmark for "Caches Where my Log has been deleted" ? Jamie ohh, i like that! i have a bookmark list that's "my favorite parking lots", which is made of caches for which my log includes a photo of the parking lot or from the parking lot. it's kind of a joke referring back to a debate i had in the forums with CR. i imagine some people are puzzled... Quote Link to comment
+NoLemon Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Lep, Aren't you the one who gave me the idea for a bookmark for "Caches Where my Log has been deleted" ? Jamie Thanks for the idea... this may come in handy. Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I have 6 public bookmarked lists. I did change the name of one of them when I decided that it sort of suggested that the caches on it were park and grabs. It wasn't meant to, but i thought it could be taken that way. All positive feedback so far. Nothing from any of the owners on my Favorites list. My lists are mostly aimed at creating a PQ of geographically convenient caches. The watersheds can make that hard to know - even with topo and aerial maps. Quote Link to comment
+TeamGuisinger Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 When one of our caches was added to the "Not likely to Forget" bookmark list of a well-respected caching team, it was better than any "loved this cache" log! Go right ahead and use it, that's what it for. I would steer away from using it in a negative way or that might get you some complaints. Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I COULD put together a list of Travel Bug Prisons where my bugs have disappeared/or languished...which would incidentally coincide with caches where my log has been deleted! Quote Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) It's only a matter of time before the "I hate stats" crowd wants to opt out because to put their cache on your "best of" or "worst of" list is a form of stats. Wrong. I guess I simply don't have the communications skills to convey why stats, as they are implemented presently, aren't good for the hobby. Forget that for a moment, shall we? An absolutely excellent stat would be a "Best of..." Yes, this is a rating system, but one that highlights the best caches of an area. It counter acts the negative influence of smilie hounds hunting only the easy caches. It would encourage higher quality caches. ...especially if you have a ranking of cache owners based on their cache hides. I think encouraging good hides is always a good thing. Don't you? Edited December 20, 2005 by CoyoteRed Quote Link to comment
+Ed Rad Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) Lep, Aren't you the one who gave me the idea for a bookmark for "Caches Where my Log has been deleted" ? Jamie Hmm.. seems a certain person as a few faces depending on what he or she is philosophically opposed to... Nice to see it's ok for a certain person to delete logs but others get mocked for it even if it is wrong. Nice example for an approver/mod to set for the rest. Edited December 20, 2005 by Special Ed Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) I like the idea of public-viewable bookmark lists, and feel that they are a way of recommending a cache and giving the cache owner a pat on the back with a word of appreciations. We have at two public bookmark lists, one of which is called Vinny's List of Extreme and Adventure Caches, and we have never received any compalints from cache owners that their cache appears on the list. On the other side of the coin, several of our caches are listed on the "Best of (category)" public bookmark lists of other cachers, and we love it! It makes us feel flattered, and tempts us to place more caches of the same kind! To me, this is a great way of being able to let people -- who might otherwise have never heard of them -- know of some really fine caches in a particular category, and also a way of showing appreciation for some really great caches. Edited December 20, 2005 by Vinny & Sue Team Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I think in most cases, to have your cache bookmarked would be a compliment. Feel free to bookmark ANY of my caches. Using a bookmark with a negative agenda is unsportsman like and pretty lame. A lame caches list would be totally wrong due to the subjective nature of geocaching. However, I find no fault with pointing out where an owner likes to delete logs as long as the finder truly did nothing to warrant such an action. It actually happens quite often and you hear these stories a bunch at events. Vinny's List of Extreme and Adventure Caches Row vs. Wade and a few of my other caches belong on that list. Too bad ya can't BM caches on other sites too. My Banjo Music aka Why is Daddy Crying? terracache is only 110 feet from R-v-W. It has been there for almost 2 months with over $100 worth of swag in it and no one has found it yet. Quote Link to comment
+VegasCacheHounds Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I just had a very prominant cacher in my area add one of my caches to his Favorites Bookmark, and I feel truely honored. It will likely inspire me to make my own list. In other words, I'm all for your bookmarks on my cache pages Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I think in most cases, to have your cache bookmarked would be a compliment. Feel free to bookmark ANY of my caches. ..... Vinny's List of Extreme and Adventure Caches Row vs. Wade and a few of my other caches belong on that list. Snnogans, I will definitely check out that cache for inclusion on the list! As you likely know, your Quantum Leap cache is already on the list, or at least it was the last time I looked! Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 It's only a matter of time before the "I hate stats" crowd wants to opt out because to put their cache on your "best of" or "worst of" list is a form of stats. Wrong.... Stats are derived from information of all types and allows things to happen. Books marks can be used to create the "best of" list as you suggest. The rating system under discussion can do a similar thing. Overall I'd say it's good. It's still a stat. So is a worst of, or a list of geocachers who delete logs. As soon as someone figures out a way to use a bookmark that they don't like they will want to opt out. It takes all kinds of people to make up the community. Some people don't log online. Some don't log at all. A recent change that I had championed early on was made on this site. You have to log in to see the caches. You still don't have to log anywhere, but not to see a cache there is likely an audit log (another form of data that can be used for stats). Sooner or later someone will want to opt out. I'll grant you a lesser request rate than a state leaderboard may have, but it will happen. Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 When the bookmarked list first went public there was an outcry for opt out from some cachers (mostly European). Evidently there were some lists with names like Cave Caches - which were spoilers for some of the caches. There are many more multis and puzzles there, and the bookmarks were providing too much info in their titles or even in the nature of the collection. After reading that thread, I did change the title of one of my lists. Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Lep, Aren't you the one who gave me the idea for a bookmark for "Caches Where my Log has been deleted" ? Jamie Hmm.. seems a certain person as a few faces depending on what he or she is philosophically opposed to... Nice to see it's ok for a certain person to delete logs but others get mocked for it even if it is wrong. Nice example for an approver/mod to set for the rest. I have neither (1) deleted a "found it" log from one of my caches, ever; or (2) advised using bookmark lists for negative purposes. One time in the Geocaching.com forum, as I noted above, I set up a list called "Caches I'm Ignoring" and placed one cache on the list for a period of a few days, simply to illustrate how the feature might work in evil ways. This was disclosed to the cache owner within the thread, along with a promise to remove the bookmark a short time later, which I then did. Read in context, an intelligent reader would see that I was advocating against the misuse of the bookmark list feature. Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 When the bookmarked list first went public there was an outcry for opt out from some cachers (mostly European). Evidently there were some lists with names like Cave Caches - which were spoilers for some of the caches. There are many more multis and puzzles there, and the bookmarks were providing too much info in their titles or even in the nature of the collection. After reading that thread, I did change the title of one of my lists. Aha! This is an excellent point, and well-explained! Thank you! Quote Link to comment
uperdooper Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) Lep, Aren't you the one who gave me the idea for a bookmark for "Caches Where my Log has been deleted" ? Jamie Hmm.. seems a certain person as a few faces depending on what he or she is philosophically opposed to... Nice to see it's ok for a certain person to delete logs but others get mocked for it even if it is wrong. Nice example for an approver/mod to set for the rest. i don't see where the poster is advocating anything of the kind. the list was meant as an example of how the lists could be used, not how they should be used. he also didn't say that he had ever deleted any logs. EDIT: OBMB with lep. Edited December 20, 2005 by uperdooper Quote Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Sooner or later someone will want to opt out. I'm sure. But the mention of the "I hate stats crowd" is generally towards those who don't care for the found count, especially the ones that think it is counter-productive. Quote Link to comment
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