Same Cache, Extra Smilie

[+OzGuff]

I understand that the cache owner has virtually absolute control when it comes to deleting logs, etc. I am not questioning this at all. What I want to know is how folks feel about the practice of offering an extra smilie for some non-caching activity. Here is an example:

 

Should be a simple park-and-grab. I am once again allowing and extra find to the answer of this question. Who is the little girl that serves as this places mascot? In real life who is she.

I suppose the extra smilie winds up similar to a couch cache find. (And I have "found" a few of those so this isn't a case of me throwing stones at glass houses.)

 

I just wanted to see how this objective, non-partisan, representative sample of the geocaching community at-large feels about the practice.

[CoyoteRed]

Don't care for it as it is again using the smilies as a reward.

[Hugh Jazz]

I see nothing wrong with it.

 

Finders who like to collect lots of smileys will be drawn to these, those who are 'purists' and want one find per cache will just log one smiley. In the end, there's no prize for the biggest number of smileys. Until there's a cash prize, score the game whatever way you want.

 

Offering extra smileys is a great way to attract lots of people to your cache.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Hugh Jazz

[+BlueDeuce]

Well, if it makes me a purist for thinking that you should only get credit for geocaching ....so be it.

 

I give it a thumbs down.

Edited December 10, 2005 by BlueDeuce

[+Snoogans]

I don't know if I'd do the one in the OP unless getting the info was sufficiently hard.

 

BUT!

 

There's a cache in Austin, posted by a good geobud of mine that I would log twice.

 

The actual cache location is spectacular by W.O.M. and the picture gallery. You can also log an extra find from anywhere in the world for introducing 5 people to geocaching and linking the logs or taking 5 outta town geocachers on a cache tour and linking the logs.

 

I'll log that one twice and make no apologies for it.

 

However, I don't log events more than once to get credit the temp caches I did there and I don't think less of those that do. They play their game and I play mine.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Snoogans

[+Les Nomades]

Hmmmm, after reading different post and opinions regarding smilies, and seeing what people do to get them, I think that if a day comes that a person cannot get a smilie without physicaly finding the cache, some catchers are gonna start selling them to people ready to buy them.

 

"Ok, here's the deal, I found the catch but for a buck, you log it and get the smilie."

 

As to answering the question, why not start a new game called Geoquiz

[CoyoteRed]

However, I don't log events more than once to get credit the temp caches...

This is actually an interesting statement.

 

You don't log a find on caches you do find, but will log a find on something that has nothing to do with finding a cache.

 

I can understand a purist only logging permanent caches with its own cache page. Some folks simply won't claim a find on some caches even if the visit meets all of the critiria for an acceptable claim.

 

With all due respect, there seems to be a bit of a disconnect on what a smilie means. (Maybe the theme for another thread?)

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Well, if it makes me a purist for thinking that you should only get credit for geocaching ....so be it.

 

I give it a thumbs down.

No kidding. Should a football team get a few extra points on the scoreboard because they supported the United Way? So why should you get an extra smilie for doing something good in the community while geocaching?

[+JoGPS]

The cache owner has control of just about everything with their cache as I think it should be. If they want to offer an extra smiley or two who cares, this is just a game, play it the way you want to and let everyone else play their way.

 

These forums are “NOT” representative of most of the cachers out there and only a very small percentage come in here to even look and what they do see is a bunch of busy bodies trying to tell them how to play the game they are enjoying just fine without the hassles.

 

JOE

[+Team GPSaxophone]

The cache owner has control of just about everything with their cache as I think it should be. If they want to offer an extra smiley or two who cares, this is just a game, play it the way you want to and let everyone else play their way.

 

These forums are “NOT” representative of most of the cachers out there and only a very small percentage come in here to even look and what they do see is a bunch of busy bodies trying to tell them how to play the game they are enjoying just fine without the hassles.

 

JOE

If everyone can play the game their "own way", then why bother having guidelines at all?

[+badlands]

I see nothing wrong with it.

 

Finders who like to collect lots of smileys will be drawn to these, those who are 'purists' and want one find per cache will just log one smiley. In the end, there's no prize for the biggest number of smileys. Until there's a cash prize, score the game whatever way you want.

 

Offering extra smileys is a great way to attract lots of people to your cache.

IMHO this cache is lame. Sure I would log it once, but claiming multiple smilie's on a 1/1 really waters down the value of that smilie.

 

There was a cache back where I used to live that was called the Benchmark of the Month Club. This cache was set up to introduce people to benchmarks and to encourage the finding of benchmarks. This would be a legitimate use of multiple smilie's on a single cache as you had to go to a different physical location each time. [i only logged it once though].

 

If you get 4 smilie's on a 1/1, should you get 20 on a 5/1? Should you get a smilie for each stage of a multi? I think not! A cheap smilie is a cheap smilie no matter how you slice it. I'm surprised the cache was approved.

[+briansnat]

I think its beyond silly. Its a found it log. You didn't find the cache twice.

[+Jamie Z]

what they do see is a bunch of busy bodies trying to tell them how to play the game they are enjoying just fine without the hassles.

Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

Jamie

[+The Leprechauns]

I have come across such caches in my travels, enjoyed them once, and logged my single smiley to remember it by. I have come across multicaches that invited me to log a find on each stage. I declined the offer, logging a single smiley. I enjoyed the caches just as much with one smiley.

 

Anyways, just because the offer is there, doesn't mean it has to be accepted.

[Earthdog Patrick]

II just wanted to see how this objective, non-partisan, representative sample of the geocaching community at-large feels about the practice.

 

OZ, you crack us up!

 

We've done this on some of our caches, and we're proud of it! C'mon guys, this is supposed to be FUN! Lighten up a little...

[+worldtraveler]

...I just wanted to see how this objective, non-partisan, representative sample of the geocaching community at-large feels about the practice.

Well, I won't even pretend to be objective, non-partisan, or representative. My highly biased opinion is that it is just one more in a long list of inflationary practices that serve to devalue the worth of smilies.

 

Used to be, if you got one smiley, it meant you had found one cache. No questions. Straight forward. Common sense.

 

Then someone decided to bend the unwritten rules. Some cried "foul", but others hailed the changes as "inovations" or "creative alternatives". With the acquiescence of TPTB, the will of the relativists prevailed over the absolutists', and a host of imitators flooded the landscape with their own "inovations".

 

Soon, the slippery slope got so steep that the entire system was in freefall.

 

Eventually, TPTB decided to take action. No more locationless caches. No more virtual caches. Virtual travel bugs locked down. Their scythe has cut a wide swath, causing not only relativists, but some who would be more closely aligned to the absolutists, to cry out.

 

Yet, there still remains at least a few pockets of pus, festering, spreading their poison. Will Jeremy's all-seeing gaze finally land upon them? One can only wait... and hope...

 

Perhaps if someone gives his wife a free, worthless smiley...

[Trinity's Crew]

Perhaps if someone gives his wife a free, worthless smiley...

I'm not laughing. I swear I'm not laughing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Trinity's Crew]

I just wanted to see how this objective, non-partisan, representative sample of the geocaching community at-large feels about the practice.

I assume you meant this to be tongue-in-cheek, but I do think you get a good representative sample of opinions on most issues in these forums. Most threads are discussed from many angles with varying opinions. Sometimes posters tend to be more passionate if you hit one of their hot-button issues, but I stand by my non-objective, partisan, subjective opinion that you do get to see most sides of any issue raised in these forums. (If you read all of the posts! )

 

On topic, I don't think I'd log more than one smilie (find) per cache. They just don't mean that much to me. Besides, I like knowing how many caches we've found. If I start logging multiple finds on caches that allow it, I'd have to do math to figure out how many we actually found. Yecch!

[+budd-rdc]

I've run across quite a few caches with a "bonus question" that offered no smilies. If the subject was interesting, I did it anyway.

 

I have no problems if the owner offers an extra find for completing a bonus activity. I've done it once as a newbie at an event cache (a topic discussed in the past on other threads), and have logged extra smilies for locationless listings. Otherwise, I've declined other offers for extra smilies.

 

It's interesting that "find counts" are treated almost like a currency, with owners offering them and cachers accepting them as rewards. Maybe in the future, we'll have a Federal Caching Reserve, and a Find Count Bank where I can collect interest.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

OzGuff seems to have a lot of difficulty with East TN./S.W VA geocachers. It's a game ! ! ! I don't collect extra smilies for caches but it is up to the cache owner. If you don't like the idea, don't record the extra smilie. Edited December 10, 2005 by Konnarock Kid & Marge

[+Glenn]

As a cache owner. I don't like the idea. I doubt I'll ever use it on any of my caches. As a cacher I see no harm if other cachers do it. It doesn't my smiles any less special. It isn't as if there are only a limited number of smiles to go around. I don't have to give up any of my smilies for others to get their smilies.

[+Renegade Knight]

One cache, one find. In the end it's the owners option.

 

This cache could of been a potential virtual, that was forced to be a regular and so the owner adapted. Sometimes the goal for the cache owner it not what you see when you are there, but what happened there, or what there is all about. Those are valid aspects to geocaching that go beyond the box.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Renegade Knight

[+OzGuff]

OzGuff seems to have a lot of difficulty with East TN./S.W VA geocachers. It's a game ! ! ! I don't collect extra smilies for caches but it is up to the cache owner. If you don't like the idea, don't record the extra smilie.

I have no problems with cachers in East TN and/or SW VA. (OK -- maybe a small problem with one of them...) It just so happens that the text quoted may come from a cache in TN or VA, but I could have quoted text from many similar caches.

 

I was just trying to test the waters on the topic; as I have already stated I understand and agree that cache owners can do what they want with their caches.

[+denali7]

beyond lame

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

OzGuff seems to have a lot of difficulty with East TN./S.W VA geocachers. It's a game ! ! !

 

This is just a topic of conversation. He doesn't have to have a difficulty or believe this is more than a game to bring up something merely to talk about! Why all the anti-conversation posts?

 

As to the topic, depends on the cache. Answering a trivia question is a bit weak for a smilie, but some caches involve fun activities. One we did was a "wedding cache". In the cache was a veil, bouquet of flowers, and other wedding related stuff. To get an extra smilie you had to put all the stuff on and upload a picture in the get-up. In that case, it seemed logical. Finding the cache was one smilie, and doing the task was another. Guess it's a case by case thing.

[+BlueDeuce]

OzGuff seems to have a lot of difficulty with East TN./S.W VA geocachers. It's a game ! ! !

 

This is just a topic of conversation. He doesn't have to have a difficulty or believe this is more than a game to bring up something merely to talk about! Why all the anti-conversation posts?

 

As to the topic, depends on the cache. Answering a trivia question is a bit weak for a smilie, but some caches involve fun activities. One we did was a "wedding cache". In the cache was a veil, bouquet of flowers, and other wedding related stuff. To get an extra smilie you had to put all the stuff on and upload a picture in the get-up. In that case, it seemed logical. Finding the cache was one smilie, and doing the task was another. Guess it's a case by case thing.

Well that's the brass tacks isn't it?

 

Find my cache and if you can photograph a Yellow Jeep claim another find.

 

Why Two? What about the second has anything to do with geoaching?

 

Use clues to find a cache, but don't use clues in and unto themselves to say you've found two caches.

 

 

Edit: actually put back what I first said.

Edited December 10, 2005 by BlueDeuce

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

What about the second has anything to do with geoaching?

 

Not a thing. It was a fun cache, though!

[+BlueDeuce]

What about the second has anything to do with geoaching?

 

Not a thing. It was a fun cache, though!

Yes, I was fortunate to log a find on the Yellow Jeep Locationless before it was archived.

 

but I didn't claim a second find for posting a pic of a rotting deer carcass. That would have to been on the other cache page.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I've run across quite a few caches with a "bonus question" that offered no smilies. If the subject was interesting, I did it anyway.

 

I have no problems if the owner offers an extra find for completing a bonus activity. I've done it once as a newbie at an event cache (a topic discussed in the past on other threads), and have logged extra smilies for locationless listings. Otherwise, I've declined other offers for extra smilies.

I've run across caches where repeat visitors relog finds. I've run across caches where the owner logs a find on a maintenance visit! I've run across virtuals where the object in question could not be seen, due to construction, yet people log it.

But, however, he said, there is a multi-cache nearby, with a virtual bonus question. Most people are unabe to locate the cache, find the virtual, and log that. (What I found was probably the residue of the original cache. It was clearly marked 'geocache', but had no log. So we signed a piece of paper, returned it to where we found it, and e-mailed the owner.)

But, however, the local administrator issued a stern warning: "This geocache was brought to my attention as being in need of an owner maintenance visit, because it appears both micros are long missing and people are logging this as a virtual cache.

This cache was approved as a physical cache. When a cache disappears the options are to archive the listing or to replace the cache.

If the cache meets the requirements for virtual cache I would be more than happy to review a new submission for a virtual, but it is unfair to the finders of this cache that found it as a traditional multi to allow virtual finds."

 

Since then, it has had thirteen DNFs, five finds (including ours), and including two people who logged both the micro and the virtual! Come to look at it, even OzGuff

logged the virtual as a find! It looks as though six people found the cache, four (including ourselves) found the remnants of the original cache, and fifteen people logged the virtual.

I will, and did, log finding the remnants of the original cache. I will not log the virtual only, nor would I log the 'bonus virtual' if that's all I found.

[+BlueDeuce]

But, however, he said, there is a multi-cache nearby, with a virtual bonus question. Most people are unabe to locate the cache, find the virtual, and log that.

 

I hope gc.com knows about the virtual location waypoint

 

edited for content

Edited December 11, 2005 by BlueDeuce

[+treasure_hunter]

Give it a break dude.

[+BlueDeuce]

  Give it a break dude.

 

done.

Edited December 11, 2005 by BlueDeuce

[+OzGuff]

The cache owner has control of just about everything with their cache as I think it should be. If they want to offer an extra  smiley or two who cares, this is just a game, play it the way you want to and let everyone else play their way.

 

These forums are “NOT” representative of most of the cachers out there and only a very small percentage come in here to even look and what they do see is a bunch of busy bodies trying to tell them how to play the game they are enjoying just fine without the hassles.

 

JOE

I asked for opinions; I didn't condemn the activity out of hand. Why is it that every time someone -- usually me -- asks a question about a geocaching ethical standard, someone -- usually you -- starts yelling about the cache police? I hear rumours that two reasonable cachers can agree to disagree; the disagreement doesn't make either viewpoint any less valid.

 

Part of the way I choose to play my way apparently includes discussing the ethics of geocaching. I am not proselytizing, just discussing.

 

Time for this busy body to get back to checking random cache pages for ethical violations...

[+jackratt]

I want to know is how folks feel about the practice of offering an extra smilie for some non-caching activity

Don't care for it.

[+SixDogTeam]

I want to know is how folks feel about the practice of offering an extra smilie for some non-caching activity

Don't care for it.

Care for it

[+cudlecub]

It's simply a game. Looking at how we do things, is it acceptable to find our own caches? An event is considered a hide on our stats so is it acceptable to log an "attended" for it when it's already accounted for in the stats? In theory it is our cache. On temporary caches at events, do we log them? Some of them have been more difficult than most of my other finds and I have no shame in logging them after having to climb up a tree for a fake birds nest only to find I have to climb back up again for the next highest nest. But there is overkill on some such as Homework In the end we play the game how we see fit. . . .

[Earthdog Patrick]

But there is overkill on some such as Homework

Well I guess my opinion of some of the high volume cachers has diminished quite a bit, if this is how they play the game...

[+fishingdude720]

whoah. I just checked that homework cache out. I don't understand why people do that. It is not a contest to see who get's the most.

[trekbabe]

It's a smilie, people. That's all. I don't care for it....I don't log each stage of a micro and the only time I did more than one log for an event was when all of the caches were permanat. I'd like to see some owners come on and defend the practice of giving an extra smiles. It's not about the numbers. It's about having fun and possibly spending some quality time with friends and family.

[+Sagefox]

Should be a simple park-and-grab. I am once again allowing and extra find to the answer of this question. Who is the little girl that serves as this places mascot? In real life who is she.

I suppose the extra smilie winds up similar to a couch cache find.

From OP we don't have all the details but I believe this is a hypothetical question.

 

I don't like this two-find policy. It makes no sense to combine a regular and virtual cache on one page and award two finds.

 

I have been to many caches where you had to find the container and answer a virtual cache type question and you had to do both to claim one find. Annoying but not unreasonable.

[+briansnat]

These forums are “NOT” representative of most of the cachers out there and only a very small percentage come in here to even look and what they do see is a bunch of busy bodies trying to tell them how to play the game they are enjoying just fine without the hassles.

 

I don't see anybody here telling anybody how to play the sport. Someone asked what others thought about the practice and people answered. I said I thought the practice was silly, because I believe it is. I'm not telling anyone else how to do it, I'm just expressing my opinion.

 

Every time someone asks an ernest question about certain practices in this sport we get the holier than thou crowd getting on their horse and telling us how much they don't care, so neither should anyone else.

[+WalruZ]

if smilies are 'no big deal', then why offer multiples? They must be worth something to someone for that to be done, no?

 

In my part of the country that sort of thing isn't done. You wouldn't be able to show your face at the next geo-gathering if you did.

[+cudlecub]

Is it the hider's fault or the finder's fault? It's the direction things have gone in a specific area and possibly areas. The "bonus smiley" was on the cache page from day one. Knowing the history of the hider, I'm sure he asked opinions on it prior to the offer and it's been finders who have obviously taken them up on such offer. I highly respect this young hider who exhibits more maturity than cachers double or even triple his age. He's done much for caching in my area and I hope this forum question / attack, as some locals see it, doesn't kill his enthusiasm.

 

The fault isn't with the hider but instead with the finders making a double find, just as the ol' Deputy himself did. Is there a final decision to be made by the Geo-Judge(s)?

 

Next case. . . . .

[+Snoogans]

In my part of the country that sort of thing isn't done.  You wouldn't be able to show your face at the next geo-gathering if you did.

ROFLMAO! Seussesque! (Why am I thinking about Starbellied Sneetches?)

 

I've cached from coast to coast and every area where there is a large, active group of geocachers, they have their own style. I've enjoyed each on its own merit without needing to look down on those who view the sport differently than my home group.

 

Funny thing.... The more smilie happy a group of cachers is, (and more apt to eagerly participate in a bonus smilie like we're talking about) the more fun I've had visiting them.

 

If I felt like logging an extra smilie for completing a task on a cache, I would and I'd make no apologies for it. Same as if I decided to give one on one of my caches.

 

In fact, I think I will.

 

Whether you're a terracacher or not you can post an extra smiley on any one of my caches if you complete this task:

 

Do it in the NUDE and post a picture on any of my cache pages.

 

You must show the cache container, or the cache log book in the photo AT the actual cache location AND you must artfully mask any "naughty" parts, or at least black them out. This isn't a porn smiley.

 

THIS IS A GEOCACHING DARE! Are you up for it?

 

Rules:

 

This goes without saying, but still.... THE SUBJECT(S) OF THE PHOTO MUST BE AT LEAST 18 YEARS OF AGE!

 

1) You MUST be nude with the exception of shoes or a hat. No porn shots. The more artful the shot you can get, the better.

 

 

2) You must give the cache title and TC, or GC, number of your "Nude Cache."

 

3) The cache container or the cache log book must be in the shot.

 

4) You must SHOW at least most of your face. You can still wear sunglasses and a hat, but NO anonymus shots. We hafta KNOW it's you.

 

NOW, I double dog dare you to claim an extra smilie on my cache!

 

NOW...... I'll still proudly show my face at events. Maybe even at one in your area. I DO get around.

Edited December 12, 2005 by Snoogans

[+budd-rdc]

But there is overkill on some such as Homework

Well I guess my opinion of some of the high volume cachers has diminished quite a bit, if this is how they play the game...

From the looks of it, the actions that occurred on that cache page seems to be a form of protest after an unpleasant experience. I'd give it some time ("cool off period") before I form an opinion. (Maybe they'll delete the logs later)

 

There are ways to get extra smilies for something less unpleasant, like Getting a Speeding Ticket while caching. I got pulled over going too fast near Astoria, OR recently, and my brother was rooting for me to get a ticket so I could log the above LC.

 

The officer was nice enough to just give me a warning, though.

[+Sagefox]

NOW, I double dog dare you to claim an extra smilie on my cache!

 

NOW...... I'll still proudly show my face at events. Maybe even at one in your area. I DO get around.

Well now it's getting interesting. Walruz says you can't show your face and Snoogans says you can't show your a**. I'm going to be thinking about this very intently as I drive past Snoogan's Mono Lake frog cache next April. I just might come up with a way to satisfy both and qualify for Snoogan's find.

 

Not just your every day 1-1 driveby with a pesky virtual question.

[+Snoogans]

NOW, I double dog dare you to claim an extra smilie on my cache!

 

NOW...... I'll still proudly show my face at events. Maybe even at one in your area. I DO get around.

Well now it's getting interesting. Walruz says you can't show your face and Snoogans says you can't show your a**. I'm going to be thinking about this very intently as I drive past Snoogan's Mono Lake frog cache next April. I just might come up with a way to satisfy both and qualify for Snoogan's find.

 

Not just your every day 1-1 driveby with a pesky virtual question.

You wouldn't be the first!

 

Edited December 12, 2005 by Snoogans

[+Criminal]

Should be a simple park-and-grab. I am once again allowing and extra find to the answer of this question. Who is the little girl that serves as this places mascot? In real life who is she.

F'n lame is F'n lame no matter how you want to slice it. Some interesting justifications in this thread though.

 

LAME

[+Quiggle]

This thread is about cache owners offering bonus credit for performing an extra task (such as Snoogans' naked task above). If you would like to discuss other logging practices, please use one of the other current threads for that purpose.

[+MustangJoni]

While I have no problem with others logging two smileys for one cache, I don't do it. It has more to do with my stats being correct than the ethics of it. I want 1 smiley for each find. If I go to an event and there are temp caches, I only log the event. The temp caches were just part of the fun.

 

But to each his own...my way is only the right way for me.

 

But I think if I did one naked, anyone who witnessed that would deserve more than one extra smiley!